• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers™ Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller

Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
It does seem like Kyrie actually did want to come to Boston.

edit: So I guess the question is... does this make the Celtics better right now? Yeah, it probably does. Crowder was blocking some of the younger guys from playing time. Isaiah is a great scorer, but he's a liability on defense because of his size.

I'm still not sure if this puts the Celtics over Cavs. The Cavs still have Lebron, and now that have another great scorer in Isaiah (who won't be the primary option for once). I'm not sure where Crowder fits in, at least as a starter. Lebron and Love would start over him. Unless they want to move Lebron to point forward and shift IT to the 2.

I feel bad that we abandoned Isaiah for someone taller. And I hope he kicks our butt at least a few times a year.
 
J

jdstorm

Banned
Crimson_Echidna said:
Ainge is definitely banking a lot on his ability to keep Kyrie in Boston next summer.
Click to expand...

Ainge just dumped a positional headache and a 5'7 PG who wanted a max contract in a year for a top 5 PG and the only significant asset it cost him was a future pick which has uncertain value.

Its kind of Nuts that in 12 Months time we may have a situation where Indy got more for Paul George then Cleveland got for 2 years of Kyrie.
 
L

LyleLanley

Banned
Duxxy3 said:
It does seem like Kyrie actually did want to come to Boston.

edit: So I guess the question is... does this make the Celtics better right now? Yeah, it probably does. Crowder was blocking some of the younger guys from playing time. Isaiah is a great scorer, but he's a liability on defense because of his size.

I'm still not sure if this puts the Celtics over Cavs. The Cavs still have Lebron, and now that have another great scorer in Isaiah (who won't be the primary option for once). I'm not sure where Crowder fits in, at least as a starter. Lebron and Love would start over him. Unless they want to move Lebron to point forward and shift IT to the 2.

I feel bad that we abandoned Isaiah for someone taller. And I hope he kicks our butt at least a few times a year.
Click to expand...

I don't think this puts the C's over the Cavs right now but this was a move for the future. In a few years if Taytum, Brown and the Lakers/Kings pick pan out the team could be really good.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
jdstorm said:
Ainge just dumped a positional headache and a 5'7 PG who wanted a max contract in a year for a top 5 PG and the only significant asset it cost him was a future pick which has uncertain value.

Its kind of Nuts that in 12 Months time we may have a situation where Indy got more for Paul George then Cleveland got for 2 years of Kyrie.
Click to expand...

Every time someone tries to justify this trade Isaiah gets an inch shorter. He was 5'9" an hour ago.

Also the jackshit Indy got for PG will still be jackshit a year from now. Cavs got the best they could.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Peter Ian Staker said:
Every time someone tries to justify this trade Isaiah gets an inch shorter. He was 5'9" an hour ago.

Also the jackshit Indy got for PG will still be jackshit a year from now. Cavs got the best they could.
Click to expand...

Well, I mean they were in a far less urgent situation. They didn't have to deal him. Given that they did, then yeah I think they did pretty well. There are ways this could really backfire though.
 
J

jbug617

Banned
Kind of crazy that IT is known as a Superstar now. I remember when we traded for him he was suppose to be a 6th man off the bench. Smart was suppose to be the starting pg but got hurt before the season started and IT never gave it back.
 
C

Caddywompus

Member
jdstorm said:
That pick may be reasonably worthless. If Brooklyn is healthy they could be in the 30-40 win range and that would push that pick in the 10-15 range.
Click to expand...
It would be hilarious if Ainge is aware of some deal in the works that would make that team significantly better. This trade was less about Kyrie and more about getting out from under a pick that will be worthless soon,
 
B

BlackGhost

Banned
Lee Jenkins @SI_LeeJenkins
Five minutes after Isaiah was informed of the trade he got a welcome text from his AAU co-star.
(Not a AAU pic)
DH4GcW1XsAQXeBC
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Lee Jenkins
Lee Jenkins @SI_LeeJenkins
Replying to @NorthCityAAU and @Brotherhood05
They played on the same team from 6th-8th grade. Isaiah took the train from Seattle to Portland and stayed at Love's house.
Click to expand...
🤔
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
spyder_ur said:
Well, I mean they were in a far less urgent situation. They didn't have to deal him. Given that they did, then yeah I think they did pretty well. There are ways this could really backfire though.
Click to expand...

They really had to. Kyrie made it clear he doesn't want to play with Lebron anymore and the feeling mutual.
You can't come back from that.

As for the trade backfiring, it is really unlikely that the Brooklyn pick is worse than top 5-7.
They just lost their best player and DLo is still a couple of years away from being any good
 
Cornbread78

Cornbread78

Member
I guess I should be rooting for the Nets to win this year then?

I mean, I'm always rooting for the Lakers to suck, so there is no change there!
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Mix Master said:
NBAgaf help me here, this move doesn't exactly put the cavs over the top to beat golden state, why not try for more?
Click to expand...

They probably don't think Golden State is the only goal any more. They also have to plan for post-LBJ Cavs. There's no one they could add for Irving that would close the GS gap.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Mix Master said:
NBAgaf help me here, this move doesn't exactly put the cavs over the top to beat golden state, why not try for more?
Click to expand...

Its both a move for the short term and long term. They pick up a probable top 5 draft pick.

For the short term its hard to say how it plays out. IT was already great, maybe he looks even better playing next to the best player in the world. Crowder is a huge addition, they basically had no depth before and he's great.

Basically made a move that could help them now and definitely helps them for the future. Its a huge win for them.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
Mix Master said:
NBAgaf help me here, this move doesn't exactly put the cavs over the top to beat golden state, why not try for more?
Click to expand...

They could have gotten more or better veteran players but at the same time they needed some future insurance for Lebron likely leaving next year so that's why they decided to get Zizic and the pick.

It was about as good a deal as they could have ever gotten considering they weren't ready to mortrage even more of their future for Lebron.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
Mix Master said:
NBAgaf help me here, this move doesn't exactly put the cavs over the top to beat golden state, why not try for more?
Click to expand...

When you trade an all star caliber player, there is never going to be an opportunity to get a better player in return. The best the Cavs could hope for in a trade of Kyrie was a replacement for him at point (Thomas), additional depth on the wing (Crowder), and another asset (Brooklyn pick). What else could you possibly want out of a trade?

Thomas is pretty close to Irving's level and was better during the regular season last year. Crowder gives them the extra wing they needed to defend Golden State's forward combo of Durant and Green. Plus, if they feel like they are one piece away from seriously challenging the Warriors, they can trade the pick for another rotation player.

If they feel like they can't beat Golden State, they can keep the pick and build for the future. It was looking like even with Kyrie they wouldn't have a shot of beating the Warriors this year.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Duxxy3 said:
It does seem like Kyrie actually did want to come to Boston.

edit: So I guess the question is... does this make the Celtics better right now? Yeah, it probably does. Crowder was blocking some of the younger guys from playing time. Isaiah is a great scorer, but he's a liability on defense because of his size.

I'm still not sure if this puts the Celtics over Cavs. The Cavs still have Lebron, and now that have another great scorer in Isaiah (who won't be the primary option for once). I'm not sure where Crowder fits in, at least as a starter. Lebron and Love would start over him. Unless they want to move Lebron to point forward and shift IT to the 2.

I feel bad that we abandoned Isaiah for someone taller. And I hope he kicks our butt at least a few times a year.
Click to expand...
Hard to gauge. Better on offense worse on D. Cavs still better but this was a if LeBron bolts it's wide open for them move.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
jdstorm said:
Its kind of Nuts that in 12 Months time we may have a situation where Indy got more for Paul George then Cleveland got for 2 years of Kyrie.
Click to expand...

No. Even if they let Isaiah Thomas walk next off-season, 1 year of him on a 6 million dollar contract is better than 4 years of Oladipo at 20 million per. Thomas and Crowder are both better players than Oladipo or Sabonis. Hell, I'd rather have just the Brooklyn pick than the Oladipo, Sabonis package.
 
J

jmizzal

Member
A lot of people say Celtics could of got PG13 or Bulter, but I feel like Tatum in 3 years will start to be on their level as a young wing score in the NBA, plus PG13 would have been a 1 year rental.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
jmizzal said:
A lot of people say Celtics could of got PG13 or Bulter, but I feel like Tatum in 3 years will start to be on their level as a young wing score in the NBA, plus PG13 would have been a 1 year rental.
Click to expand...

I much prefer getting a 25 year old Kyrie to either George or Butler, given the situations that were present. Others may disagree but I think Kyrie is a cut above those talent-wise. This is undoubtably a whale of a package to give up, but I'm glad they were willing to do it for Kyrie and not for the other two.
 
B

Bread

Banned
spyder_ur said:
I much prefer getting a 25 year old Kyrie to either George or Butler, given the situations that were present. Others may disagree but I think Kyrie is a cut above those talent-wise. This is undoubtably a whale of a package to give up, but I'm glad they were willing to do it for Kyrie and not for the other two.
Click to expand...
Me too. Kyrie has HoF level scoring ability. I can't believe we got him.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
spyder_ur said:
I much prefer getting a 25 year old Kyrie to either George or Butler, given the situations that were present. Others may disagree but I think Kyrie is a cut above those talent-wise. This is undoubtably a whale of a package to give up, but I'm glad they were willing to do it for Kyrie and not for the other two.
Click to expand...

Kyrie is a bad defensive player. Not average, bad. George and Butler are elite defensive players. Even if Kyrie is slightly better than the two of them offensively, he's simply a worse overall player than they are.
 
P

Peter Ian Staker

Member
spyder_ur said:
I much prefer getting a 25 year old Kyrie to either George or Butler, given the situations that were present. Others may disagree but I think Kyrie is a cut above those talent-wise. This is undoubtably a whale of a package to give up, but I'm glad they were willing to do it for Kyrie and not for the other two.
Click to expand...

Bread said:
Me too. Kyrie has HoF level scoring ability. I can't believe we got him.
Click to expand...

I have a suspicion neither of you would say that 2 days ago.

Butler and George are elite 2-way players. Kyrie is a elite shooter and iso scorer but not much else.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Boogs31 said:
Kyrie is a bad defensive player. Not average, bad. George and Butler are elite defensive players. Even if Kyrie is slightly better than the two of them offensively, he's simply a worse overall player than they are.
Click to expand...

KI isn't better than either of them offensively, tbh.

Ya'll forgot playoff PG last year already? KI can't do that. And Butler has been elite on both ends of the floor for years.

darkwing-buck said:
DH4P89VWAAMJEoh.jpg
Click to expand...

I would like the Cavs variant :(
 
T

True Savior

Member
Jimmy Butler is not better than Irving. People mocked Irving for not being able to put a trash team on the playoffs. Compare with what Jimmy Butler had just two seasons ago. Just go watch what that dude did when Rondo went down. He's an efficient scorer. He will put his numbers and his great percentages and that's it. He's a Mitch Richmond that can't shoot the 3.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
is this the first time in nba history the last pick of the draft is traded for the 1st pick?
 
B

Boogs31

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
KI isn't better than either of them offensively, tbh.

Ya'll forgot playoff PG last year already? KI can't do that. And Butler has been elite on both ends of the floor for years.
Click to expand...

I mean Kyrie did average around 30 ppg in consecutive finals so I would say he can do whatever you claim George did (offensively). I did also use the word slightly because George and Butler are both really good offensively in their own right. But in the playoffs, against switching defenses, Kyrie's iso ability is extremely valuable and I would say he's literally the best in the league at that.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Jimmy Butler is very very far from elite offensively, unless you consider Avery Bradley near elite as well.

I just love the upside of Kyrie. He's been coached in offensive systems designed by Mike Brown and LeBron. Imagining him in a Stevens system has me feeling things.
 
T

Tall4Life

Member
spyder_ur said:
Jimmy Butler is very very far from elite offensively, unless you consider Avery Bradley near elite as well.

I just love the upside of Kyrie. He's been coached in offensive systems designed by Mike Brown and LeBron. Imagining him in a Stevens system has me feeling things.
Click to expand...

Are you saying Jimmy Butler is similar in offensive prowess to Avery Bradley?

wtf lmao
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
Tall4Life said:
Are you saying Jimmy Butler is similar in offensive prowess to Avery Bradley?

wtf lmao
Click to expand...

Not quite, really. But they're not as dissimilar as you might think, actually. A point I've made previously with data.

Jimmy Butler is not an elite offensive player and not comparable to Kyrie there. Obviously he's a much better defender, but I've always been much more willing to splurge for Kyrie than the other rumored options. Honestly, I just never really thought it was a possibility.
 
B

Boogs31

Member
spyder_ur said:
Not quite, really. But they're not as dissimilar as you might think, actually. A point I've made previously with data.
Click to expand...

You should just back out of this statement before it's too late.

spyder_ur said:
Jimmy Butler is not an elite offensive player and not comparable to Kyrie there.
Click to expand...

A guy that can average 24PPG, 9FTA and have reasonably efficient FG and 3PT percentages is pretty darn close to being an elite offensive player. I agree he's not probably a top 10 offensive player, but I think you would have a hard time finding 25 players in the league that are better on the offensive end than Butler.

Butler, even if he isn't elite offensively, he's close, and he's an elite defender.

I'll take a B+ offensive/A defensive player (Butler) over an A offensive/D- defensive player (Kyrie) any day of the week.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Pre-Load size for NBA 2K23 on Xbox Series is over 150GB.
2 3
118
8K
theclaw135 replied
Outcast: A New Beginning | Review Thread + |OT|
|OT| Analysis Review 2
51
3K
Gordon Freeman replied
February 16th is a Big Day for Nintendo Fans - MK9 And Nintendo Switch 2 Info (Leaks)
2 3 4 5 6
281
21K
StateofMajora replied
PlayStation Store sale begins May 25 2022 (Days of Play)
Deals
27
2K
skit_data replied
Immortals of Aveum | Review Thread
2
78
5K
winjer replied
Top Bottom