Sure. Several tournaments happened and are still happening.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Destiny's PvP doesn't feel fun anymore
- Thread starter El Sloth
- Start date
Sure. Several tournaments happened and are still happening.
Gotta play more, but since i play way more PVE than PVP, i feel like the reprioritizing of primary and secondary affected PVE negatively. I use primarily scout rifle , shotguns, and fusion rifles, and all of them have been boosted up to second and power, and then the hand cannon lost a bit of punch. Gunna go through the strike a few more times before i make any conclusions but not feelin it.
scoobs
Member
Destiny PVP was the epitome of frustrating, unfun nonsense. The number of games where I just couldn't get in a rhythm because i constantly died to nades, OP shotguns, and a never ending assault of ultimates was innumerable. And don't even get me started on the freaking red bar connection laggers teleporting around killing everyone. Most rage inducing, stupid PVP mode to any shooter in recent memory.
All of these changes seem to be for the better, but we will see if they were over done, I imagine not
All of these changes seem to be for the better, but we will see if they were over done, I imagine not
There was a rumour that players in competitive modes will not be using their "own" guardians in D2, but "premade" players with premade loadouts.
I'm really hoping that once I pickup some weapons that I love, enough decent armor to really build out a character that I like, then I'll find my groove.
The Beta kinda felt like playing a few hours on a mates character with character build preferences in opposition to your own.
The Beta kinda felt like playing a few hours on a mates character with character build preferences in opposition to your own.
This is a legit complaint? People in a 4v4 small map are teamshotting?
Nah I'm good tbh
PowderedToast
Junior Member
bungie are in between a rock and a hard place w this
you'd read lttp crucible threads and the prevailing opinion was that it was an eternally unbalanced mess that didnt reach the heights of halo
and one of the core appeals of destiny is that there's a consistency across PvP and PvE that feeds into the power fantasy and mmo feel
So this time round they've prioritised PvP, probably hoping that it will be seen as a genuinely competitive and valid FPS multiplayer
personally my time with the beta in control was the best time I've spent in the crucible. it felt very tight and well balanced. it's hard to know how it will all pan out until people have spent time with the game and got a sense of the progression and whether the trade off is worth it
In the PvE mode I basically never used a shotgun or sniper apart from on a boss, I don't know how they fix that other than having different weapon systems across the two modes which they seem unwilling to do
you'd read lttp crucible threads and the prevailing opinion was that it was an eternally unbalanced mess that didnt reach the heights of halo
and one of the core appeals of destiny is that there's a consistency across PvP and PvE that feeds into the power fantasy and mmo feel
So this time round they've prioritised PvP, probably hoping that it will be seen as a genuinely competitive and valid FPS multiplayer
personally my time with the beta in control was the best time I've spent in the crucible. it felt very tight and well balanced. it's hard to know how it will all pan out until people have spent time with the game and got a sense of the progression and whether the trade off is worth it
In the PvE mode I basically never used a shotgun or sniper apart from on a boss, I don't know how they fix that other than having different weapon systems across the two modes which they seem unwilling to do
TheCanisDirus
Member
Exactly. Destiny 2's Crucible, as it's tweaked now is fucking light years better than Destiny 1's. Smaller, tighter, more balanced and cooperative. Not a "spam all the nades and supers and shotguns" like D1.
D2 pvp is leagues better than 2, imo, at any stage of S1's development.
They could bring the grenade timer up some, and the supers a little, but right now it feels so much better than the power spam nonsense of 1.
It feels much more in line with /good/ Halo pvp than ever before, this is great!
Exactly this. Exactly.
They could bring the grenade timer up some, and the supers a little, but right now it feels so much better than the power spam nonsense of 1.
It feels much more in line with /good/ Halo pvp than ever before, this is great!
Exactly this. Exactly.
Yeah people should remember that the cooldowns speed up a lot by the time you reach max level + whatever gear. I actually preferred D1's beta PvP to final D1 because the cooldowns were at a more reasonable level.
Marvel
could never
I believe these issues have already been addressed in a recent blog post anyway. The beta is old build.
Personally do not miss people running around constantly with Shotty and FR's.
I played a round or two and yeah it certainly felt like the pacified the power and use of character ability and grenades. The overall movement whether it's jump or movement speed feels slightly more sluggish at default too. Also making the games 8 players max across the board takes away a lot of the chaotic nature. They should have done the reverse and increase the player count maybe making vehicular maps relevant again.
This too.
The pvp feels really, really tight. There are far less frustration involved with unfair deaths etc... and the higher ttk means battles and kills feels like you really have to earn them.
Shotguns and snipers being relegated to power weapons is good for two reasons:
1. People can't just sit on their sniper and camp, or charge blindly with their shotgun sliding around corners, they have to use these items intelligently or risk losing them.
2. More power weapons means more variety when we see the ammo pick ups appear. I'm sure we'll see flavour of the month favourites appear/disappear, but the larger variety of power items will on,y make the game more varied.
Playing the beta, it's really rare that I was pissed off, D1 pvp had me in a perpetual state of frustration (and I played a lot in the early days despite this because the core of it was so much fun).
I really hope that with changes and gear boosts the powers don't become too frequent across the board. Right now they're a bit below what they should be, imo, but I'd rather this than what we have with D1.
Hoping they find a good balance, but then this is post D1 Bungie so who knows....
TheCanisDirus
Member
Personally i think they should keep supers and grenades right where they are... but i agree about the Halo comparison. It just feels like an evolution of halo with the primary weapons, focus on gunfights and headshots... being able to retreat and/or chase a retreating player etc. They'd better not fuck it up and change it back to the super casual mess that it was before!
Or give us two modes, power spam and what we have now, or versions of both...
And give us ranked and casual versions of each type.
Keep everyone happy. The playerbase is going to be /huge/, it'll support both.
Not a fan of PVP in D2 for many of the same reasons as the OP. Game feels way to sweaty now. I mostly Solo queue and I'm not really interested in super competitive PVP. That's why I tend to stick to games like Overwatch, Team Fortress 2, or old death match games like Unreal Tournament. I enjoy the crazy powers and plays in those games. I played a fair bit of pvp in Destiny 1 and for the last 8 months it was the only reason I logged in to the game.
Not sure why they just didn't make Trials like the Beta PVP mode and keep the crazy space magic from Destiny 1 in normal PVP.
The one thing that is really driving me crazy is why would you take this super successful game and franchise and then drastically alter it for the sequel. If PVP remains the way it is in the beta and if there aren't some super fun modes that solo players can enjoy I think Destiny 2 will have some serious drop-offs in players between PVE content releases. Who knows, maybe there will be so much PVE content that those players will never feel the need to play PVP.
Not sure why they just didn't make Trials like the Beta PVP mode and keep the crazy space magic from Destiny 1 in normal PVP.
The one thing that is really driving me crazy is why would you take this super successful game and franchise and then drastically alter it for the sequel. If PVP remains the way it is in the beta and if there aren't some super fun modes that solo players can enjoy I think Destiny 2 will have some serious drop-offs in players between PVE content releases. Who knows, maybe there will be so much PVE content that those players will never feel the need to play PVP.
I'll never understand why they don't cater to both, as I said above the playerbase is large enough.
4v4 mode with less power usage for more competitive play.
6v6+ mode for more casual fun.
They could make casual and ranked versions of both, or just keep ranked to the 4v4 and let everyone who doesn't care about that duke it out in a pure fun OTT space magic fest.
Even if they can't get these out at launch, it could be a longer term goal.
I enjoyed D1 MP but I'm enjoying D2 more.
If it feels like Halo, it is surely a poor man's Halo. Personally I think it feels sterile, neither taking advantage of what makes Destiny unique nor actually delivering a high quality PvP experience.
I get what you mean, but I attribute it currently to the restrcited access.
With all the gear and perks/abilities we'll get in the proper game the entire feel of pvp will change. Especially as simply adding in character customisation and the investment and variety that comes with building your own guardian will add a lot to a player's perception of how much fun they're having (at least for me).
I think the foundation is very strong, but only if you're into a tighter more competitive style of pvp. I can totally understand if this doesn't interest you, the change from D1 is quite drastic currently.
I've enjoyed D2 MP from the start but it has gotten even better the more time I've spent with it. I might only get one super per game and while I would be happy to see that increase to two they don't feel any less important. I also like how you can drain your super meter to increase the damage of your grenades.
Fun MP when playing with friends. My biggest complaint is that the 4v4 creates some unnecessary people management dynamics. We now have activities that require 6, 4 and 3 people respectively. I appreciated the fact that in D1 we could roll into PVP/IB after doing a raid. Now we have to kick out a couple of people from the group which is never fun. I don't think it is doing any favors to the community.
The speed and feel of the game play separates it from CoD enough for the comparison to not hold under scrutiny, imo, even with the huge reduction of power use.
This is the kind of gameplay so many of us have been calling for throughout D1's lifespan, and most of us love the power spam stuff too.
whynotboth.gf. Bungie, pls....
I don't think this is a problem, more a matter of adjusting to it. Most MMOs (all I have played anyway) require different party numbers. From story modes, to questing, to random farming, to dungeons and raids, etc... numbers are always changing.
Hopefully clan support and guided games etc... help make this easy for everyone to manage, but I think adjusting to this in the long term is going to be fine.
I mean, the 3 person limit is the part I would remove if anything... especially for things like patrol. If they gave us at least /something/ to do in a larger group for the times we have the wrong amount of people for a specific activity and can just jump into something with all our group members for the time being. I get that it's designed around the 3 classes, but it just seems at odds with how most people game with their friends. IT remains a really weird feeling design choice, regardless of how/why it was conceived.
So many times we've had 4-5 people for a raid and not been able to find the rest, then had to have 1-2 players leave when we took a strike or patrol to kill time. There's so much they could do to avoid this....
Anyway, OT for pvp... soz.
Pandora012
Member
Basically my issue with it. They throw casual players under the bus. In D1 they were able to create modes that catered to basically everyone. Sure I like sweaty matches sometimes, but other times I love the chaos that happens in the other modes.
TheCanisDirus
Member
It's just at Beta. I'm sure those who dont really care about MP can find some goofy casual fun in some mode somewhere after full release.
I have to admit that I didn't stick with Destiny's PvP for very long. It was enjoyable for a while but ultimately quite limited and, frankly, filled with far too many practically random and unavoidable deaths, plus a time to kill that felt a fair bit too short for its own good. Yet, if Destiny's PvP felt boring after tens of hours, Destiny 2's felt boring after tens of minutes.
I tend to think of myself as someone who quite likes competitive oriented multiplayer, but Destiny 2's apparent push in that direction leaves me completely cold. It's gone from being a kinda silly but reasonably fun experience to one that takes itself too seriously. I can imagine Destiny morphing into a genuine competitive experience. I can also imagine them doubling down on the stuff that makes Destiny unique with the magic powers and the RPG progression systems. Instead they've gone down the middle and the result is a game which, somehow, feels less interesting and less unique than really every game it competes with. Look at Titanfall 2, Doom, Overwatch, Battlefield 1, Call of Duty: WW2, Battlefront 2, or Halo 5 - they all have more of an identity than Destiny 2's PvP does right now.
Problem is, quite clearly, Control is meant to be a casual fun mode and it quite clearly isn't fun. You couldn't possibly argue that it's competitive either given the spawning system.
Strangelove77
Member
Nope, Bungie will keep it as is. This is as casual as it gets. And it's a real shame.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Control or "domination" is not "casual"... It may not be search and destroy level tactical competitive but it's not some happy-go-lucky mode. You'll get slaughtered if your team doesn't work together and play smart.
I'm good with it. Destiny 1 was way too all over the place and casual in general. It feels like D2 is more focused and they're taking it more seriously. Thank god.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes. Destiny vanilla PVP except for some technical issues is imo the most fun PVP I ever played.
I really do think that the main issue you have here will be addressed by the full game and all the systems it introduces, or I'm hoping this is true at least. I agree that right now D2 could go the way of MOR sterility, Bungie have definitely earned that prediction.
this is such a premature thread. LOL. its just the beta, especially when looking at how cooldowns etc works currently. You have no idea how higher end items will interact with your character.
Personally, I think its fine and helps a lot to push the game to being a lot more fun PVP wise and makes deaths a bit less certain and more ways to get in and out of engagments without totally worrying you are going to get shotgunned, Fusioned or Sniped out of nowhere for quick deaths all the damn time.
Personally, I think its fine and helps a lot to push the game to being a lot more fun PVP wise and makes deaths a bit less certain and more ways to get in and out of engagments without totally worrying you are going to get shotgunned, Fusioned or Sniped out of nowhere for quick deaths all the damn time.
Pandora012
Member
I know it's just a beta, I also know that Bungie has a habit of making things worse. Additionally, they haven't said anything about there being other modes besides 4v4. (Link me if I'm wrong, I could have missed it) Of course it could come later but I'm not holding my breath. Either way, I'm still buying D2 as at the very least I'm enjoying the pve aspects of the game. And will play for trials fun too. It just seems like this won't be the game I go to for casual fun.
TheCanisDirus
Member
No it's all 4v4. They've specifically said all PvP is 4v4. That's the new formula and it plays miles better for that. Objectively.
Chase Lebowski
Member
D2 PVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Super and grenades spam fest/Mayhem
*if you enjoy tighter, more comp focused play.
There's a lot of people who love/loved D1 pvp chaos and while be turned off by the changes.
Personally, I prefer D2 but I enjoy (or at least I did enjoy D1 pvp a lot earlier in the cycle) both.
TheCanisDirus
Member
I guess. To each his/her own, right? I just feel they've finally nailed the PvP (or as close as they ever will) and i'm actually stoked to get back into it. Just fearing it might revert to the horrid, no-skill, super/grenade/secondary weapon spam fest that it was.
RichiRamjag
Member
Honestly, that's just a skill issue. Yeah, some folks can be a bit better with the shotguns and such, but if you practice good positioning and are environmentally aware, it's not that big a deal. Red bars stink, but not really all that much much than in most games. Personally, I thought it was a great pvp mode and the pvp in 2 has lost me completely. I'd rather play halo if I'm going 4v4. Destiny completely lost me because of their pvp changes personally. I know i can compete, but I'm just no longer interested.
I agree that there's definitely something lost in Destiny 2, if the beta is what we're actually going to get at launch. I enjoyed it for what it was, but the switch to 4v4 really does change the pace of the games. I expect Bungie is leaving themselves some room to bring back 6v6 (or more) in later expansions, but you really have to wonder why they decided to cut it entirely at launch?
I'm still in for Destiny 2, but I have a feeling I'll be keeping the first one installed for PVP for a while.
I'm still in for Destiny 2, but I have a feeling I'll be keeping the first one installed for PVP for a while.
But, they already had that with Iron Banner and Trials.
Count me in the group that PUGs shouldn't be as sweaty or focused as the competitive playlists/modes. What the point of Iron Banner and Trials if everything is pushing very hard towards organized, competitive play?
Honestly, onc again they're trying to shoehorn in a square peg into a round hole with the rediculous notion that weapons have to be the same across PvP and PvE.
Drop it. It's not fun, and only Bungie cares.
For the people who liked feeling overpowered, and the unbalanced just-for-fun modes like mayhem, I'm sure theyre still going to design game modes for you.
This slow version of control is so much more interesting, competitively, than dying over and over to grenade / super / sniper / shotgun spam. I've been playing pvp since the launch of D1 and this is easily some of the most balanced and interesting its ever been.
Obviously we're looking at a small sample size here, but I like what I see and can make a good guess about where things are headed.
This slow version of control is so much more interesting, competitively, than dying over and over to grenade / super / sniper / shotgun spam. I've been playing pvp since the launch of D1 and this is easily some of the most balanced and interesting its ever been.
Obviously we're looking at a small sample size here, but I like what I see and can make a good guess about where things are headed.