Zeouterlimits
Member
Likely wasn't their decision fully. They didn't have to time to do a beta and meet the ship deadline.
Getting a public beta must require a huge amount of resources.
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Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?
- Thread starter FyreWulff
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Getting a public beta must require a huge amount of resources.
The Antitype
Banned
This is what gives me hope. The core mechanics of shooting, movement, the sense of weight are all there and really strong.
The range/animation of the melee needs to be tweaked a bit, along with the grenade throwing arc (just a little bit higher/longer range as default) but other than that I would say it feels perfect.
So this doesn't need to be a complete tear-down and rebuild. Take the core gameplay mechanics, clean everything else off and start from there.
I don't even care if they bring Armor Abilities back. I really don't. Just make damn sure they're turned, and balanced and AS FUN TO FIGHT AGAINST AS THEY ARE TO USE. Ensure the maps are designed around them. And do something to ensure that the player's silhouette is altered in a noticeable way so that his opponents can tell what he's packing and react appropriately, just as they can to the sight of a player holding a shotgun or a rocket launcher.
Get rid of weapon unlocks and orbital drops. There is no way to make these work in Halo. None. There's no way to save that concept, take it as a learning moment and move on to better things.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
it was fun single player with little replay, new enemies about as intresting as the aliens in crysis 2..
Mp was a fucking joke. loved spartan ops but hated how lazy it was.
Mp was a fucking joke. loved spartan ops but hated how lazy it was.
Actions are stronger than words, Mr. O'Connor. You've been saying this same thing for the better part of a year now and the post-launch support of Halo 4 (more perks, shitty achievements, etc.) doesn't really support the theory that your team has learned a lot. The success of Microsoft's biggest franchise and part of the success of their next console is riding on your team's ability to deliver a Halo game that people want to play. You have even more to live up to than you did with Halo 4, but I think the biggest problem you guys are facing right now is that you don't have a playerbase anymore. If I were you, I'd be scared shitless knowing that not a lot of people believe in 343.
Prove that you can do this. Fulfill my Good Halo Game Fantasy, 343. Don't let this happen again:
Swarming101
Member
Wow. Those stats, particularly compared to Halo 3, are fucking brutal.
Which I find to a degree confusing. I was aware that there were some people in the Halo community unhappy with Halo 4, but I also knew that people were unhappy with Reach, and ODST before that... Speaking as someone who's primarily a PS3 gamer, Halo 4 was actually the first Halo game in the series that I really enjoyed playing through. I thoroughly enjoyed the campaign mode; it was challenging, had astonishing graphics and set pieces, the AI was pretty smart, and I enjoyed the storyline as well although I was left wishing they'd taken a bit more time to delve into the meta story about the 'villain' etc. and some of the other issues surrounding things like the forerunners.
After I finished the campaign, I decided to hop over to multiplayer... yeah I wasn't blown away by it. First of all, the players only ever voted for like two different maps, so I kept trying to work out how I could filter my matchmaking to only certain maps... couldn't find that one! Then I realised that actually that if you didn't have any DLC (as I didn't at the time), there were actually only a very few maps to choose from, and that I remembered at least two or three of them being basically just a retooling of maps that I'd played years ago on Halo 3. Then there were the guns... I haven't played the game in months, so unfortunately I can't remember the names of them, but there was a rifle that fired single shots at a semi-automatic rate and that was basically 100% accurate. It was incredibly easy to just leave the crosshair in the centre of the screen and just headshot the shit out of people with it. It was just so OP it was unfair, and ended up leaving very little motivation to use the other weapons... I suppose as a casual player, I actually did enjoy the inclusion of those random weapon spawns and the weapon drops you could call in, but overall I just didn't really feel the multiplayer. The maps were limited as hell and the guns were pretty unbalanced. This is all coming from the perspective of a very casual Halo player though.
Which I find to a degree confusing. I was aware that there were some people in the Halo community unhappy with Halo 4, but I also knew that people were unhappy with Reach, and ODST before that... Speaking as someone who's primarily a PS3 gamer, Halo 4 was actually the first Halo game in the series that I really enjoyed playing through. I thoroughly enjoyed the campaign mode; it was challenging, had astonishing graphics and set pieces, the AI was pretty smart, and I enjoyed the storyline as well although I was left wishing they'd taken a bit more time to delve into the meta story about the 'villain' etc. and some of the other issues surrounding things like the forerunners.
After I finished the campaign, I decided to hop over to multiplayer... yeah I wasn't blown away by it. First of all, the players only ever voted for like two different maps, so I kept trying to work out how I could filter my matchmaking to only certain maps... couldn't find that one! Then I realised that actually that if you didn't have any DLC (as I didn't at the time), there were actually only a very few maps to choose from, and that I remembered at least two or three of them being basically just a retooling of maps that I'd played years ago on Halo 3. Then there were the guns... I haven't played the game in months, so unfortunately I can't remember the names of them, but there was a rifle that fired single shots at a semi-automatic rate and that was basically 100% accurate. It was incredibly easy to just leave the crosshair in the centre of the screen and just headshot the shit out of people with it. It was just so OP it was unfair, and ended up leaving very little motivation to use the other weapons... I suppose as a casual player, I actually did enjoy the inclusion of those random weapon spawns and the weapon drops you could call in, but overall I just didn't really feel the multiplayer. The maps were limited as hell and the guns were pretty unbalanced. This is all coming from the perspective of a very casual Halo player though.
Word. Which was the reason I asked. Thought you knew something I didn't.
Bungie did betas, 343 didn't/doesn't.
THIS. There is no question that halo 4 was a major graphical improvement for the series. It looked great and finally ran at 720p.
Did a lot of people at 343 come from Retro (Nintendo) when Nintendo decide they would be the donkey kong studios ?
Hopefully 343 has done a good post mortem of halo 4 and have figured out that just as the market is getting call of duty fatigue is not where they need to go.
Halo 3 i think is better, i logged 10,000 games in halo 2 and like 8000 in halo 3.
Before the release of H4 343i came across as arrogant assholes. I had a bad experience with this game before it even came out. Their LE edition fiasco was embarrassing. They only started listening to the fan base after the population went to shit. And by that point it was too late most people weren't going to come back. They did a horrible job with customs and forge. I do not hate H4, I think MM was actually kind of good. I feel like it was too easy but I liked it more then Reach but that isn't saying much.
It has gotten to the point where I don't see myself buying Halo 5. I never thought this day would come. Halo games have always been a must buy for me.
It has gotten to the point where I don't see myself buying Halo 5. I never thought this day would come. Halo games have always been a must buy for me.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
They weren't trying to fix the problems, they were trying to hide the additions. That's why nobody really knew how the MP worked until the game leaked.
You spent longer on that OP than I did playing the actual game.
And Halo 3 is my favourite multiplayer game of the generation.
Which sums up Halo 4.
Good fucking work, 343.
You didn't listen and you implemented your obnoxious design decisions because of your misplaced hires that resulted in a corpse of a title. And potentially a dead franchise. A dying one at least.
And Halo 3 is my favourite multiplayer game of the generation.
Which sums up Halo 4.
Good fucking work, 343.
You didn't listen and you implemented your obnoxious design decisions because of your misplaced hires that resulted in a corpse of a title. And potentially a dead franchise. A dying one at least.
This thread is genuinely depressing.
I fucking loved Halo, I adored it, but I just can't get enthused about Halo 4. I won't tread over ground already covered in this thread, but I think 343's lack of willingness to change the game is the real kicker. They've had ample opportunity to roll back the broken features, to give us the game we want.
The fact that they haven't taken the opportunity really worries me about the state of Halo 5.
I fucking loved Halo, I adored it, but I just can't get enthused about Halo 4. I won't tread over ground already covered in this thread, but I think 343's lack of willingness to change the game is the real kicker. They've had ample opportunity to roll back the broken features, to give us the game we want.
The fact that they haven't taken the opportunity really worries me about the state of Halo 5.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
What a beautiful thread.
There's only one true way to save Halo:
There's only one true way to save Halo:
Combat Evolved 2.
OdysseusVA
Banned
this is one of a hell good post sirActions are stronger than words, Mr. O'Connor. You've been saying this same thing for the better part of a year now and the post-launch support of Halo 4 (more perks, shitty achievements, etc.) doesn't really support the theory that your team has learned a lot. The success of Microsoft's biggest franchise and part of the success of their next console is riding on your team's ability to deliver a Halo game that people want to play. You have even more to live up to than you did with Halo 4, but I think the biggest problem you guys are facing right now is that you don't have a playerbase anymore. If I were you, I'd be scared shitless knowing that not a lot of people believe in 343.
Prove that you can do this. Fulfill my Good Halo Game Fantasy, 343. Don't let this happen again:
BuggyDClown
Member
I actually loved Halo 4.
I think the problem was the balance, TU and maps were needed day one.
If the Game that was available to play 6 months after launch was there on day one I could see those charts showing better legs.
I can't fathom why so few game types were ready until months after launch, it made the multiplayer feel barren.
I think the problem was the balance, TU and maps were needed day one.
If the Game that was available to play 6 months after launch was there on day one I could see those charts showing better legs.
I can't fathom why so few game types were ready until months after launch, it made the multiplayer feel barren.
Great OP. You really nailed most of the problems..
But one thing that really pisses me off is that MOST of the multiplayer issues could have been avoided if:
1) 343i had not been so cocky and just made a BETA for the game;
2) Communication! They left the community in the dark for far too long. People were pointing out problems and all they got back was "Look how well the game sold!"
I hope what Frankie says is true.. But I still have no confidence in this team.
But one thing that really pisses me off is that MOST of the multiplayer issues could have been avoided if:
1) 343i had not been so cocky and just made a BETA for the game;
2) Communication! They left the community in the dark for far too long. People were pointing out problems and all they got back was "Look how well the game sold!"
I hope what Frankie says is true.. But I still have no confidence in this team.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
That's the thing, most people started with either Halo 2 or Halo 3 in terms of putting in CRAZY amounts of hours into the multiplayer. Those people who put in 3 years of LAN parties, traveling around the country for tournaments/LAN's on a consistent basis (not as an event but to actually get better), and heavy amounts of time into playing on XBC think Halo 2 began the downfall of Halo gameplay for the most part.
To throw this out there, lesser-skilled players that I knew from Halo 1 went on to become MLG GODS of Halo 2 because of easy that game was comparitively. Sure, Halo 2 was FUN but that was a combination of many things like great maps, XBL being created, gametypes that were FUN and now SLOW like Halo 3 making the flag a got damn tank, etc.
Halo 3 came out and Halo got much slower and even more inconsistent. It was at that point people who craved for a CE-like experience for its multiplayer lost hope for the franchise to head in that direction again. Release after release we heard Bungie comment on how Halo is going back to its roots while acknowledging CE's formula, but we just never got it. Shit, they even marketed the H3 Magnum as something that'll be extremely useful in the "right hands," giving the BR competition and finally giving players what they've wanted throughout the 3 years of Halo 2: A consistent, single shot precision weapon. And we all know how that turned out.
Then H:CEA gets announced and CE fans from 2001-2004 go BATSHIT CRAZY! But then....... 343 announces that they're not putting the multiplayer on XBL because it'll separate the fanbase of Reach too much while in reality most people were asking for THAT, not a remake of just the Campaign. H:CEA releasing without XBL multiplayer was a tragedy and something that not a single fan asked for, at least from what I saw throught teh interwebz at that time.
AR/Pistol starts in Halo 1 was far more fun and rewarding than anything after. BR starts just don't compare to what Halo 1 had.
ProfessorMoran
Member
This.
343i isn't Bungie, isn't as good as Bungie, is never going to be like Bungie.
As much as Bungie gets flak for a lot of things but they're still a great developer, the series falling into the hands of 343i was never going to be the solution, HALO wasn't 343i's baby, 343i is basically MS's Treyarch, wearing Bungie's hand-me-downs.
BeekleMatter
Member
Don't launch a game with such a small amount of maps and game breaking features like sprint, AA's, and loadouts; all while removing the features that made Halo what it is in the first place.
Use Big Maps for small maps too (maybe section a portion off?) or something. That four map slayer rotation got so old so fast.
Use Big Maps for small maps too (maybe section a portion off?) or something. That four map slayer rotation got so old so fast.
The Weapon Tuning debacle is my personal low-light for the H4 MP saga. 2 Months to get an update, no beta playlist, or large community testing, just some 360p Live stream with 8 or so "notable" Halo community members. Took forever for the game to get even close to decent, by then the community was long gone and there still were no really good maps to play that sorta decent game on.
Campaign was absolutely atrocious, felt like it was focus tested and designed by AAA Mass market game making committee. Had no soul whatsoever, captured none of the essence of the excellent sandbox combat that the series is known for. Just plowing through moronic enemies in glorified corridors, pushing button after button, set piece after set piece.
I hope 343 can learn A LOT from this game, but I doubt this series will ever get back to being good again.
Great OP Fyrewulff
Campaign was absolutely atrocious, felt like it was focus tested and designed by AAA Mass market game making committee. Had no soul whatsoever, captured none of the essence of the excellent sandbox combat that the series is known for. Just plowing through moronic enemies in glorified corridors, pushing button after button, set piece after set piece.
I hope 343 can learn A LOT from this game, but I doubt this series will ever get back to being good again.
Great OP Fyrewulff
My first disappointment with Halo 4 is when I found out it won't have Firefight. Not that Firefight is my favorite mode, but I used to do a round or 2 of Firefight before jumping into deathmatch to get warmed up. Spartan Ops was a poor Firefight substitute. It neither made you feel like a bad ass like Arcade Firefight did, nor did it have the tension of traditional Firefight. Not to mention that the new enemies they designed weren't really fun to fight.
The problems in the campaign and deathmatch in Halo 4 have been sufficiently covered here so I won't go over those.
I wonder if the next Halo will double down on making strides towards Halo of Duty or go back to being more Halo like.
I'm hoping Destiny ends up delivering a great deathmatch experience but I haven't heard much about Destiny's deathmatch beyond that it'll be there lol
The problems in the campaign and deathmatch in Halo 4 have been sufficiently covered here so I won't go over those.
I wonder if the next Halo will double down on making strides towards Halo of Duty or go back to being more Halo like.
I'm hoping Destiny ends up delivering a great deathmatch experience but I haven't heard much about Destiny's deathmatch beyond that it'll be there lol
BlazeBreak
Member
What's most ridiculous about that is that 343 used bullshit logic to justify that. H:CEA needed to ship with an ODST Disc 2-style "complete" Reach multiplayer suite. Because the way they did it separated Reach's playerbase anyway. It forced them to forever have an Anniversary maps-only section of Reach playlists, which only made the Reach matchmaking situation even worse than it already was.
Diprosalic
Banned
i don't believe the will.
If i want a dev to build a house and they build one but it collapses because they made a mistake in planing, i can see them getting it right in the second time. 343i however built a car, a crappy one too.
well I'm done with the Xbox anyway so i'm kinda glad it worked out that way.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I may get some hate for saying this, but I'm happy if Halo 5 cuts some modes in order to refine the most popular ones. I think most people would agree that Halo 2 had an excellent feature set, which had perfectly balanced maps that catered to a wide range of game types. I think a lot of the problems with Halo, for me, started well before 4 - I hate the empty, soulless forge maps and all the weird game types that go with them. Sure, I can handle a private game of zombies, but I really don't think it needs its own public matchmaking.
Account Attempt #4
Member
Don't worry about Halo. It'll be fine
It may be pessimistic to say but after lurking Halo OTs since 2007 and seeing the swing from Halo 3 to Reach and now to Halo 4, I have little to no faith that anyone making Halo games is listening to this community. There's excellent constructive feedback and very detailed posts about what the Halo fans here love about it and what they don't care for. But there's always an excuse or "reason" as to why the game is made the way it is. The graphs though. If they won't listen to reason, then please listen to the graphs!
Graphs be loud yo.
as a tv show!
It may be pessimistic to say but after lurking Halo OTs since 2007 and seeing the swing from Halo 3 to Reach and now to Halo 4, I have little to no faith that anyone making Halo games is listening to this community. There's excellent constructive feedback and very detailed posts about what the Halo fans here love about it and what they don't care for. But there's always an excuse or "reason" as to why the game is made the way it is. The graphs though. If they won't listen to reason, then please listen to the graphs!
Graphs be loud yo.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
The single player is absolutely terrible. The story is incomprehensible unless you read the books, the new enemies aren't funt to fight (especially those flying douchebags that regenerate bad guys), and the new weapons introduced are garbage. Reach remains the pinnacle for me.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Isn't Infection one of the more popular playlists?
By that logic we'd lose almost any Objective playlist apart from BTB.
YourExWife
Member
Not to sound personal but you're defending undefendable stuff in this thread (one filled with diehard Halo fans btw) and you don't even know all the facts, like the simple one that there wasn't a beta? C'mon son.
Except it wasn't a "new engine". Wish people would quit saying that. It's a modified version of the old one, with many concessions made in other areas of performance to up the fidelity of other areas. Audio will drop randomly from certain sources, even in multiplayer, where you need it most. Especially in MP, the frame rate is horrible and rarely touches 30fps. The engine will drop to like 1-3fps in some scenarios in MP because its rendering isn't optimized properly (things happening to one player that no one else can even see are still calculated on their client end anyway, for example).
The campaign is carefully designed so that you don't see the mostly nothingness outside of whatever corridor (indoors and outdoors) that you're supposed to be confined to. Previous games allowed for tons of exploration. The skyboxes, which are often only truly paid attention to in campaign, are not on par with previous titles, again to work towards that "great-looking" game you describe. There are excessive amounts of garbage-collection in the game to push the performance as well, which only leads to annoyance and less consistent experiences (better pick up that gun you dropped within 4 seconds or it's gone forever, and so is the ammo, BUT LOOK AT THESE GRAPHICS, MAN!).
Back on topic, despite all it's issues, I personally enjoy playing the game with a small group of friends, and half the time we're just messing around. Competitively, aside from a couple gametypes, the game is not even close to "Halo" and believe it or not, that's a huge reason why so much of the original population isn't here anymore. Can't blame them for leaving when you have to dig deep to find the fun.
While I agree on all fronts when it comes to multiplayer, I find not enough people even bother with addressing the single player. What we got in Halo 4 was one of the most generic, gundam inspired art styles for everything, paint by numbers narrative that actively cheapens the original trilogy. I really, really hated what they did with all the ancient human bullshit. I really appreciated the Forerunners more when they were some sacrificial race who did what must be done to save the galaxy. Not this convoluted fan fiction we got that you can't even understand in cutscenes unless you read the books, watched the terminals, and talked to 343i themselves.
Edit: Also, I hate it when 343i prides themselves on their "massive team filled with competent developers hand picked from the game development world." Yet they can't even be bothered to make half the maps for Halo 4's multiplayer.
Edit: Also, I hate it when 343i prides themselves on their "massive team filled with competent developers hand picked from the game development world." Yet they can't even be bothered to make half the maps for Halo 4's multiplayer.
Chip N Chance
Member
Outside of the game feeling stale, I just hated the way the game looked. It never once looked or felt like i was playing a Halo game. The enemies and characters, including Master Chief looked like anime Gundam characters with way too overly design aesthetics. I use to be such a Halo nut and i haven't even watched the Halo 5 trailer for Xbox One. But by a screen shot i saw of Chief standing in front of a alien, it looks exactly the same as 4.
Ding ding. "WE CALL OF HALO NOW" doesn't work when 1) the population doesn't want Call of Duty and 2) if they did, they could just go buy that title.
I feel bad for Frankie jumping from Bungie to 343/sticking with MS because he really likes the Halo universe (he jumped from OXM to Bungie back in the day over it), but he/his team really screwed up what the fanbase wanted.
I never played a Halo game in my life, but I can resonate with the most of you when your beloved franchise seems to head towards a shit hole, due to pressures of trying to compete with Call of Duty.
Like Halo, Socom had a strong hardcore following and Sony decided to destroy that entire base by making tweeks/decisions that wasn't what the franchise was about. This seems far worse and concerning because Halo to me is a much bigger franchise, and these issues seem to be a result of a certain philosophy in place.
I hope this doesn't become another franchise to fall in the pits of dead COD wannabes
Like Halo, Socom had a strong hardcore following and Sony decided to destroy that entire base by making tweeks/decisions that wasn't what the franchise was about. This seems far worse and concerning because Halo to me is a much bigger franchise, and these issues seem to be a result of a certain philosophy in place.
I hope this doesn't become another franchise to fall in the pits of dead COD wannabes
AdventureRacing
Member
Yeah people played huge amounts of halo 1 and didn't get bored. Then they got halo 2 and played online for ages and didn't get bored. Then they moved onto the 360 and halo 3 and kept playing that for 3 years without getting bored. Then reach came out and people kept playing that and didn't got bored.
At the release of halo 4, millions of people went out and put the game with hundreds of thousands playing online. It was only in the months after halo 4's release that suddenly people realised the brand was tired and decided it was time to quit.
To people not see the problem with this logic?
I'm not defending anything 343 did, I'm merely saying Halo 4 was thier first real attempt at making a game, nevermind an Halo title. To suggest every single Halo game 343 make will have the same mistakes as Halo 4 is irrational and rather ignorant.
Every developer sits and has a post mortem the months after launch where they analyse what went wrong and how they can fix it, and judging by what Frankie has said then 343 have learned a lot from thier PM.
Ultimately they are a new studio, mistakes were made, but I'm giving them benefit of the doubt going forward.
Matrix XII
Member
Great OP! Thank you for the read, very interesting.
I enjoyed the campaign quite a bit, but the MP was awful.
It makes me think of the Halo 2 glory days. Man, those were good times.
I enjoyed the campaign quite a bit, but the MP was awful.
It makes me think of the Halo 2 glory days. Man, those were good times.
Gucci Messiah
Banned
"I haven't watched the trailer but I'm going to criticize it anyway"
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The best singleplayer campaign and story in the franchise happened.
People often blame 343 for why halo 4 is not up to par with previous halos, but in essence, they are overlooking the facts of why halo 4's gameplay is bad, and that is a result of bungie's mistakes. The moment bungie decided to implement armor abilities, was the day the halo series was finished.
I was an avid halo 1, halo 2, and halo 3 player. The fluidity of halo 1,2,3 was what made the series so fun. The maps were made perfectly adjacent to the flow the individual player. The maps were great. Then came Reach, with its sprint oriented maps, and a lack of variety, which is also what halo 4 suffered from. I even kept up with reach for a bit, until I realized how much sprint, and primarily armor lock shat on the game.
The day 343 released no bloom, and MLG released their no bloom, no sprint gametypes, was the day i had the most fun since halo 3. Halo didn't need sprint, it didn't need armor abilities, it just needed to maintain its unique fluidity of gameplay. Bungie fucked up with Halo Reach, which is why Halo 4 had so much hype. People hoped that 343 would be able to rejuvenate the series, like they had somewhat did with reach. Instead they try to fix the terribly implemented reach armor abilities. Honestly the reason Halo 4 declined in its popularity was a result of straying away from the typical halo gameplay. It also lacked a proper ranking system. There was almost no reason to keep up with the game. Overall, halo needs to return to its roots, and not try to resemble cod-like gameplay.
One of the reasons TitanFall looks so exciting to me is the games fluidity. It just looks soooo smooth! Halo had it once, now it has lost it.
Poker Face
Member
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