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Sony Spain talks PlayStation 4 [Yoshida: Better Visuals The "Gene" Of PlayStation]
- Thread starter Indyana
- Start date
Captain Tuttle
Member
Maybe they're putting all of their eggs in Vita's basket.Paco said:
Here is what I think he, and Tretton are basically saying
"PS3 is amazing. You should go and buy one right now. It has amazing graphics, 3D, multimedia support with bluray. I can't imagine how some future console we might eventually make could possibly be better. Did I mention its amazing?"
"PS3 is amazing. You should go and buy one right now. It has amazing graphics, 3D, multimedia support with bluray. I can't imagine how some future console we might eventually make could possibly be better. Did I mention its amazing?"
Proelite said:
You get better results in a closed environment than you do with a PC, sure... but even the 2012 Fusion parts are using Northern Islands cores (i.e. the 6700-6800 series). Microsoft may customize and add additional features (or, take them away) but it all depends on launch time. If they're going late 2012 or 2013, they'll be customizing what's out there now or out there soon, like Llano.
Point being, it is doubtful that any of the 3 console players will be going high-powered next gen, due to a combination of cost and wattage requirements in a console environment. There will probably be a lot of disappointed people. I'm not talking about the ones who are expecting a decent jump, which a 550ti and 5670 will provide. I'm talking about the people who want Samaritan in real-time (which in itself as a demo is showing diminishing returns in full swing).
Occams razor time.Corto said:
What is more likely: the VP of SCEE batting aside a question about PS4 non-committally, and moving the discussion onto their current selling hardware because that's what he is tasked to sell; or him secretly knowing all about PS4 and revealing juicy tidbits about how not that great it'll be?
mrklaw said:
Every system is kicked off by hardcore gamers - even the Wii. The point is that they created a system to promote all of Sony's ambitions rather than something that made some economic sense. The $599 moment has no parallel in Sony's past within this industry. It came out of damn nowhere. It stood at such stark contrast that it made everyone question, at that moment, whether the company had lost its collective mind. [It had.]
Vicetrailia
Member
I'm sorry but I call complete bullshit on this.
There is no way that this company would lose in power because they will undoubtedly lose their entire audience.
They'd have to have some real gimmick up to sleeve to appeal to the other audience. Nah, I can't believe this.
There is no way that this company would lose in power because they will undoubtedly lose their entire audience.
They'd have to have some real gimmick up to sleeve to appeal to the other audience. Nah, I can't believe this.
DaSorcerer7
Member
I'm not surprised that they may take this route, considering the amount of money they've lost this gen.
Forsete said:
So, lets say that Sony goes a half-step rather than a full-step in terms of how far they could conceivably go.... Same developers are working on what is still more powerful hardware that gives them additional things they can do.... Would you really not buy the system?
Proelite
Member
DaSorcerer7 said:
The route they took last gen was anomaly for both MS and Sony.
MS: New technology with Xenos. 4 year development time means technology is rushed into the market.
SONY: Immature technology with Cell that had manufacturing yield rates of 20%. New technology with Blu-ray.
Question for the techies:
How powerful would a $200-300 AMD APU in 2012 be? Vice versa, a $200-300 (cell + Nvidia GPU).
Dunlop said:
If we are talking about Sony taking a loss in order to get blu ray ingrained into consumers as the next gen movie format it most certainly was.
People seem to forget that with sony and Microsoft the be all end all isn't just making money on the console itself.
For Sony the ps3 meant they basically won the format war against hd-DVD and in a much quicker time. That victory alone is justification enough for Sony to develop an at-a-loss system. The benefits of wining that victory will resonate for that company for the next 4-10 years as pretty much every thing with the blu ray brand will gain money for Sony.
DaSorcerer7 said:
Again, when you take into account all the other revenue streams the ps3 opened up for Sony, is it really an overall loss? Winning the format war w/ Blu ray, online sales and marketplace growth, growing use of cell technology in other areas. Overall, despite early hiccups I think Sony ps3 venture was an overall success for Sony, just not for their games division.
Jonm1010 said:
Considering they lost all the profit they ever made in the gaming industry, it's questionable whether Blu-Ray royalties will make up for it. That said, if they're able to nail the design and pricing for the PS4 and rise to the top of the heap again, then it's less of a concern and Blu-Ray might end up being worth the price.
Hard to say at this point though.
Angry Fork
Member
Me either. It's just not in Sony's nature (at least the top bross at SCEJ/SCEA), and i'm glad it isn't because they're the last gaming hardware company left that cares about hardware. I think the success of PSV will determine whether or not they go hard with PS4, but we'll still see a significant jump. But if PSV is wildly successful then they may go all out like with PS3. They don't have to worry about Cell development or Blu Ray though, they can just put upgraded versions of those in PS4. It won't cost nearly as much and they can focus more on GPU/ram shit.black swordsman said:
Proelite
Member
Exactly. They can do so much more with the PS4 with half the early manufacturing cost of the PS3. The main limiting factor to power won't be price, but heat, power, and the limitations of the Cell architecture for PS4.Angry Fork said:
As for MS, they'll cater to the developers completely, and will use hardware (FUSION) that introduces new APIs such as DX12.
Sony's first parties in general pride themselves on producing gorgeous looking games. As such, I believe that it's all speculative at this point. If I am certain of anything after looking at the Vita, it's that they will make PS4 more developer friendly.
Controller and control schemes are the biggest barrier to entry, NOT power.
Frankly, if Sony goes Wii's route, as a free willed individual I will simply buy something else.
Controller and control schemes are the biggest barrier to entry, NOT power.
Frankly, if Sony goes Wii's route, as a free willed individual I will simply buy something else.
I don't keep on all the profit news but isn't the bolded part just referring to they lost more on the ps3 than they earned on the ps2? And wasn't that article about three years ago?Vinci said:
Also consider though that unless Microsoft wants to lose the bulletpoint of being able to play hd movies on the xbox 720, they will end up paying a small percentage of all console sales and games to Sony for royalty fees. The bluray victory is a hell of a victory Sony. Even if the rest of the console division doesn't have as much to cheer about.
Vinci said:
Can someone pull up that figure at how measly the blu-ray royalties for Sony really are? It was calculated a few months back and it's a tiny tiny drop in the bucket compared to the eradication of their entire gaming profit base.
Do... does everyone on GAF have the memory of a fish?
No, it really really really isn't.
somuchwater
Member
If the Vita is any indication, it's not that the PS4 won't be powerful - it's just that power won't comprise the primary selling point as it did with PS3.
If Sony do focus on widening the audience and coming up with an innovative control scheme, then it'd totally be a step in the right direction for them.
Still, as a corporation, they like money. As much as a bigger demographic is important, they wouldn't give up the hundreds of millions of dollars there are in the 'core' gaming market either.
Frankly, a PS4 that could do something like AC:B at 1080p/60fps would be fine with me as long as they made it so that I could play Uncharted: The Tale of Sully while my mum could turn it on and play an exercise game without my help.
If Sony do focus on widening the audience and coming up with an innovative control scheme, then it'd totally be a step in the right direction for them.
Still, as a corporation, they like money. As much as a bigger demographic is important, they wouldn't give up the hundreds of millions of dollars there are in the 'core' gaming market either.
Frankly, a PS4 that could do something like AC:B at 1080p/60fps would be fine with me as long as they made it so that I could play Uncharted: The Tale of Sully while my mum could turn it on and play an exercise game without my help.
Yeah my saving point when I get so ticked off at the potential of Sony and Microsoft gimping nextgen to focus on gimmiicks, kiddies and casuals is that Microsoft still has a vested interest in pushing DX and the xbox has typically, at least in part, played a role of being a mass market promoter for it.Proelite said:
This is a TERRIBLE concept for the future of gaming.Veidt said:
The big three aren't thinking about abandoning the hardcore to chase women and the elderly, they want to expand the market for their products. Right now they appeal mostly to a niche, so next gen their aim is to appeal to everybody.
I suspect that one day the games industry will work a little like the film industry when it comes to system specs. Every ten years or so a consortium of studios and electronics companies band together to settle on a standard for the next home video format. The format receives all content going forward and players can be manufactured by any number of companies that pay for the license.
Such a system is one of the industry's best bet at achieving true mainstream acceptance and mass adoption. I can imagine a future where practically everybody buys a system capable of playing games in the way that they buy a DVD player today, and they would be comfortable knowing that any game that gets made in the next decade or so will work on their hardware. The end of the model of super cutting edge graphics every five years and loss leading will be bemoaned by those who complain about current gen console games hurting their eyes, but the benefits off the trade-off would be enormous. The gaming population encompassing practically everyone would lead to the medium developing in fascinating ways (and definitely not just into a stream of five-minute casual games like Angry Birds, as is the widespread fear here).
The future that Veidt envisions is akin to one where someone needs to buy different video devices if they want to watch both Clueless and Wild Strawberries.
I think the locked-down-spec future would actually be better for hardcore gamers too. It creates an environment where it is easy for people who might potentially be interested in more niche software to satisfy their curiosity.
For the development of the medium, gamers and the industry need to let go of the need for super cutting edge graphics and needs to look towards the best means off mass adoption: a locked down spec.
And yes, PCs would be able to support it too, just like they support DVD and Blu-Ray.
CadetMahoney
Member
I thought Move was their successful innovative control scheme?somuchwater said:
somuchwater
Member
CadetMahoney said:
Move is still half-baked. Any sort of new control scheme - even if it's an updated Move/Kinect combo - has to be built in at the level of the ecosystem for mainstream success. It can't be tacked on like Move is now.
Proelite
Member
No matter how stingy MS and Sony be, they'll spend money in the following.Jonm1010 said:
MS: Customized latest AMD APU that's DX12+ compliant.
Sony: Next generation cell, and as many of them as they can fit taking in consideration space, power and heat. A customized Fermi successor for consoles.
Both: Lots of ram. The bang for buck is too great here to gimp it.
Both: Having a total hardware package that can last a decade.
Should point out that this is assuming that things like OnLive aren't the future. If they are, then hurray, you can still get the most simple casual games and the most graphically intensive ones on the same device, the benefits are the same as the model I proposed, and everybody wins.Krev said:
Proelite
Member
Krev said:
I don't think MS and Sony will wait for an ubiquitous ultra high speed internet to be developed. That's at least a decade away.
But when that happens, it'll be glorious. Play the best games anywhere you want. No need to ever upgrade your consoles. No limitations to graphics.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Indeed. I fully expect both Sony and MS to pack as much hardware power in their next consoles as possible, with $400-$450 being the price limit. DX12 spec hardware will most likely debut in next Xbox, in my opinion. If they intend their consoles to be just some small update, there's literally no point in wasting R&D money on them, as they can just keep selling the existing ones by making them smaller, cheaper and prettier.StevieP said:
Manmademan
Member
somuchwater said:
I've always been of the opinion that this is kind of the point. Introduce move for the PS3, find out what does and does not work, what users do and do not use it for- and release the move 2.0 to launch alongside of the PS4.
You can bet your sweet ass that microsoft is going to have an improved version of Kinect integrated into whatever the Xbox3 turns out to be.
If Sony were still following their traditional Kutaragian path, this guys comments of a marginal performance increase would make sense, but Vita clearly shows an enlightened future for hardware design. So, again, nothing to worry about here.
The inefficiencies of Inefficient Mode Renderers has finally caught up with itself. They could do better ganging up a bunch of Nova A9600s together than trying to extend the PS3's architecture to the current thermal limits for PS4.
The inefficiencies of Inefficient Mode Renderers has finally caught up with itself. They could do better ganging up a bunch of Nova A9600s together than trying to extend the PS3's architecture to the current thermal limits for PS4.
Maybe your right on the profits from royalties, a link would be more helpful than assertions and a shitty attitude.StevieP said:
On my end a quick google shows that up until last year $30 was charged in royalties for all Blu ray drives. If Sony is a slightly sub 30% stakeholder that's still 7 to 9 dollars per every drive sold or put into a PC. Thats not including disc royalties or logo royalties or money paid when using the name for advertising purposes etc. I would say considering they have this format as the standard for the next 4-10 years that is in fact a significant achievement for Sony with a large bit of help from ps3.
Does it erase the errors of the ps3 as a whole? Maybe not. Your link instead of dickish responses could help partially clear that up.
I'm talking about long-term directions for gaming. Obviously there's at least one more generation of traditional consoles to go before a major shake up happens. I think that shake up will be the handheld/console hybrid, but in time streaming may become viable.Proelite said:
Jonm1010 said:
No. They lost all the profits they generated from the PS1 and PS2 eras. All of it, gone. In three years. As for now: I'm not as up to date on their profit figures as they relate to the PS3, but it's not doing anything really noteworthy at the moment from what I can tell. I mean, I personally enjoy the system, but I don't see how anyone could color it as anything but a dismal failure as a product.
Sony itself doesn't have a lot to be thrilled about at the moment, quite honestly.
I wouldn't really mind to be honest. Sony is going to go after casuals and non-gamers the way Nintendo and Microsoft. We would see that happening with the Vita right now if they were planning to, and that clearly isn't the case. They're excellent 1st party lineup will still remain as strong a ever, and good 3rd party support is a given.
Also, while I like good tech, I don't particularly care for it to be bleeding edge. Sony will probably handle it jut like the Vita. Great tech, but for a price that isn't going to alienate everyone. Besides, if less advanced tech this means that I won't have to go through a "no geams" period because people already know how to develop for the platform, I'll gladly take that trade. Maybe SCEJ and Square will actually have a decent output this time!
Also, while I like good tech, I don't particularly care for it to be bleeding edge. Sony will probably handle it jut like the Vita. Great tech, but for a price that isn't going to alienate everyone. Besides, if less advanced tech this means that I won't have to go through a "no geams" period because people already know how to develop for the platform, I'll gladly take that trade. Maybe SCEJ and Square will actually have a decent output this time!
Jonm1010 said:
I still can't find the exact calculation because of the lack of a history search. Was it Nirolak or Stump that did a calculation based on the 2009's halved royalties and Sony's <30% share? Reading some GAF posting history by searching google, an educated guess placed it at about 80 million/year in a best case scenario type situation. Does that make up for the eradication of their entire profit base from the previous 2 generations?
Yes yes and yes. Needs to be repeated.
mentalfloss
Banned
Diminishing returns, I guess.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And add in 4 GBs of RAM.Proelite said:
Sony the move shit sucks. The Wii sport box sucks and real gamers dont WANT THAT STUPID SHIT! This is why no one plays with their wii any more or buys more than wii sports/resorts for it. We all know you dont make money on hardware but software..... think about it.
PS4 needs to be a beast if you want another 10 years.
PS4 needs to be a beast if you want another 10 years.