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antitrop · Jan 6, 2013

ViewtifulJC said:
the fucking flashing light section was the worst. My eyes were going crazy, and my brain was yelling "WHO THE FUCK THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEAAAAAAAAA"

It's one of the three best moments in the entire game, for me. I thought it was a fucking phenomenal idea.

firehawk12 said:
Garnett ~~apologized for~~ explained his reasoning for that in the latest episode, for what that's worth.

Possible timestamp for this? If anything he's pretty much talking directly to me, as I made venom-filled, profanity-laden multiple paragraph diatribe about how disrespectful their conversation was in the Weekend Confirmed OT a few weeks ago. I'm sure Garnett read it, as was my intention.

strafer · Jan 7, 2013

So I went into this game completely blind and what an experience.

But kudos to the developers.

BUT, with such an awesome game the gun sounds wasn't all that great. Sounded weak.

If it had the Battlefield 3 sound...new pants please.

Kammie · Jan 7, 2013

Man, the final stage on FUBAR is completely broken. I've been on the first part for three hours and I can't get past it.

Freaking Adams keeps running out into the open, gets killed where I have no cover in front of the turret, and there's no way I can kill 20 soldiers and get back to him in time. So when I try to save him it's a cointoss as to whether I'll survive or not... and this happens multiple times each attempt.

It's really making me mad.

CambriaRising · Jan 7, 2013

Kammie said:
Man, the final stage on FUBAR is completely broken. I've been on the first part for three hours and I can't get past it.

Freaking Adams keeps running out into the open, gets killed where I have no cover in front of the turret, and there's no way I can kill 20 soldiers and get back to him in time. So when I try to save him it's a cointoss as to whether I'll survive or not... and this happens multiple times each attempt.

It's really making me mad.

Sounds like your situation is.....FUBAR.

Übermatik · Jan 7, 2013

I never heard much about this game... looks impressive. Can someone give me a run down?

LiquidMetal14 · Jan 7, 2013

Messofanego said:
You shut your mouth! It's a great nod to Condemned, the lead designer worked on the second game and anything Condemned is appreciated since that franchise is dead

https://i.minus.com/iZXyHAn2cu5yt.gif[/IM][/QUOTE]

[quote="Kammie, post: 46127354"]I'd suggest you put that GIF as a link, since there's some people who haven't played the game coming into this thread.

I know it's a spoiler thread and all, but just out of kindness to them. :)[/QUOTE]

I agree, it's a rather interesting thing to see happen in the middle of it all and I wouldn't want that ruined.

antitrop · Jan 7, 2013

Übermatik;46131317 said:
I never heard much about this game... looks impressive. Can someone give me a run down?

Avoid reading through this thread, even with plenty of marked spoiler tags even just a passing glance at many of the posts in this thread can ruin key gameplay experiences.

Spec Ops: The Line is a game best gone into without expectations. If you have even a passing interest in playing this game, just do so. The more we tell you, the more you have to miss out on your own.

Overdoziz · Jan 7, 2013

Kammie said:
Man, the final stage on FUBAR is completely broken. I've been on the first part for three hours and I can't get past it.

Freaking Adams keeps running out into the open, gets killed where I have no cover in front of the turret, and there's no way I can kill 20 soldiers and get back to him in time. So when I try to save him it's a cointoss as to whether I'll survive or not... and this happens multiple times each attempt.

It's really making me mad.

Is that the uphill battle with the mortar at the start that you need to destroy with the RPG? The way I beat that part was by 'cheating'. Once you move up on the left side there's a nook to the left side of Hummer. From there you can kill practically all the soldiers by shoting bullets, one for one, in the head. It doesn't matter if you're a mile away, if you reticule is red the bullet will hit. You can even do it while standing just around the corner so you can see and hit them but they can't hit you. Ammo is scarce so just slowly make one headshot after the other. If you reticule turns red just shoot one or two bullets and wait for the soldier to recover from his 'I'm being hit' animation. I think it takes up to around 3 headshots to kill the soldiers. In my case Adams didn't move out into the open a single time. He was taking cover behind the Hummer in the middle of the road so that caused no issues for me luckily. If you don't order him to attack a specific target you should be fine.

gabbo · Jan 7, 2013

Übermatik;46131317 said:
I never heard much about this game... looks impressive. Can someone give me a run down?

I agree with this sentiment. Best to experience it on your own, then come back and post your thoughts/red into ours. 3rd person shooter set in a sandstorm ridden Dubai. Anything more and I'll have crossed a line.

Kammie · Jan 7, 2013

Overdoziz said:
Is that the uphill battle with the mortar at the start that you need to destroy with the RPG? The way I beat that part was by 'cheating'. Once you move up on the left side there's a nook to the left side of Hummer. From there you can kill practically all the soldiers by shoting bullets, one for one, in the head. It doesn't matter if you're a mile away, if you reticule is red the bullet will hit. You can even do it while standing just around the corner so you can see and hit them but they can't hit you. Ammo is scarce so just slowly make one headshot after the other. If you reticule turns red just shoot one or two bullets and wait for the soldier to recover from his 'I'm being hit' animation. I think it takes up to around 3 headshots to kill the soldiers. In my case Adams didn't move out into the open a single time. He was taking cover behind the Hummer in the middle of the road so that caused no issues for me luckily. If you don't order him to attack a specific target you should be fine.

I didn't read your post, but no, it's the very first part of the the chapter. It's very simple, I could do it by myself with no issues, but Adams is just a dumbass. I clear out all the first group of soldiers, until I have a clear road to the turret, but when I'm grabbing grenades or something Adams will just leave his cover and rush the turret. Then he dies in the middle of the road, with no cover, and I can't rescue him. It's infuriating, because the only reason I can't beat the stage is because of my AI partner.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

Kammie said:
I didn't read your post, but no, it's the very first part of the the chapter. It's very simple, I could do it by myself with no issues, but Adams is just a dumbass. I clear out all the first group of soldiers, until I have a clear road to the turret, but when I'm grabbing grenades or something Adams will just leave his cover and rush the turret. Then he dies in the middle of the road, with no cover, and I can't rescue him. It's infuriating, because the only reason I can't beat the stage is because of my AI partner.

If you got the mega-shotgun already use it as much as possible.

I don't really remember the exact part though, so can't be of much help :/

Macho Madness · Jan 7, 2013

Just finished the game. Phenomenal experience through and through. Wish I had played it sooner. Playing through the game left me feeling pretty gross about Walker's actions, but with a feeling of understanding.

Had we not known that parts of the game were just in Walker's head, would it have made that much of a difference? I've played so many games where death is glorified and collateral damage isn't even mentioned.

Definitely have to take another look at my top ten of 2012 because I'm sure this belongs there now. Fantastic game.

Sojgat · Jan 7, 2013

I loved playing through on Fubar, though Adams became a real problem during a couple of encounters in the last chapter. I'd work through slowly picking enemies off, then he'd suddenly just vault over cover at the worst moment, in front of 2-3 guys shooting right at him. The whole chapter would have been much easier to complete solo, without that idiot needing to be revived all the time.

Messofanego · Jan 7, 2013

LiquidMetal14 said:
I agree, it's a rather interesting thing to see happen in the middle of it all and I wouldn't want that ruined.

Done. Just came back to the thread.

Koroviev · Jan 7, 2013

Sojgat said:
I loved playing through on Fubar, though Adams became a real problem during a couple of encounters in the last chapter. I'd work through slowly picking enemies off, then he'd suddenly just vault over cover at the worst moment, in front of 2-3 guys shooting right at him. The whole chapter would have been much easier to complete solo, without that idiot needing to be revived all the time.

Adams has a death wish from the start.

kamspy · Jan 7, 2013

Can someone link me the fov mods and bits needed for SSAA? Right now all I'm using in SMAA and it looks pretty great.

Kammie · Jan 7, 2013

Koroviev said:
Adams has a death wish from the start.

Tell me about it. I just want to put him out of his misery!

I'm on the mortar part of the stage now. I'm dying like hell, but it's not maddening, because it's usually due to something I'm doing. So far Adams hasn't died once.

I think I've played for like 10 hours today... yesch. But the game won't beat me! Going to cook something and then see if I can finish it up.

antitrop · Jan 7, 2013

Kammie said:
I think I've played for like 10 hours today... yesch. But the game won't beat me! Going to cook something and then see if I can finish it up.

10 hours? That sounds depressing, I would need to cuddle with a stuffed teddy bear and listen to happy music for the rest of the day after that.

Kammie · Jan 7, 2013

antitrop said:
10 hours? That sounds depressing, I would need to cuddle with a stuffed teddy bear and listen to happy music for the rest of the day after that.

My state of mind at this point is worse than Walker's.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

I think my playtime must've been 22 hours in 4 days, which is a lot for what I'm used to devoting to a single game.

I might do a third run sometime soon, if only to listen to Hush and the super depressing late-game guitar riff.

antitrop · Jan 7, 2013

zkylon said:
I think my playtime must've been 22 hours in 4 days, which is a lot for what I'm used to devoting to a single game.

I might do a third run sometime soon, if only to listen to Hush and the super depressing late-game guitar riff.

After Glasgow Mega Snake, probably my second favorite track in the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI_MBRIEr6Q

Fucking super underrated soundtrack.

This game sold pretty well during the Steam and Amazon sales last month. It was at the top of Steam the day it went on sale, I don't even think it hit Top 5 Steam best sellers when it came out. I look forward to the impressions of those who picked up in December when they finally get through their post-sale backlog.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

antitrop said:
After Glasgow Mega Snake, probably my second favorite track in the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI_MBRIEr6Q

Fucking super underrated soundtrack.

This game sold pretty well during the Steam and Amazon sales last month. It was at the top of Steam the day it went on sale, I don't even think it hit Top 5 Steam best sellers when it came out. I look forward to the impressions of those who picked up in December when they finally get through their post-sale backlog.

These are my picks: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL16btSo1QCPyQFVMNtT4cFrAR6r3MRjB9&feature=mh_lolz

The whole thing is pretty good, it even outCoDs at CoD-like songs.

antitrop · Jan 7, 2013

zkylon said:
These are my picks: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL16btSo1QCPyQFVMNtT4cFrAR6r3MRjB9&feature=mh_lolz

The whole thing is pretty good, it even outCoDs at CoD-like songs.

Call of Duty songs are too sweeping and triumphant for my tastes, never much cared for that aspect of the franchise, dating back even to the first one. I mean, it fits the games and the tone that series goes for, I just happen to disagree with that tone so the music doesn't do too much for me there.

Actually the Spec Ops soundtrack is more closely in line with the type of music I listened to in Iraq. So I have this idea in my head of specific types of music that I directly associate with war (conflict, invasion, whatever!). When I play Spec Ops it fits, when I play Call of Duty it's just too dissonant. I just wasn't listening to the Star Spangled Banner in my MP3 player when I was off patrol, you know what I mean? I mean, ya, Call of Duty is completely its own thing and I give it a lot of shit for being what it is, but you can consider the modern CoD games big-budget explosion fantasy war action flicks and not "real" war games with any intention of humanizing its characters. I suppose it is hard to criticize it for not being something else when it already likes what it is. Hell, I suppose if I can still enjoy 'The Rock' (Bay 'flick, not the actor/wrestler) after being in the Marines, I suppose I can still enjoy Call of Duty.

But I think we need more fucking real war games.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

antitrop said:
Call of Duty songs are too sweeping and triumphant for my tastes, never much cared for that aspect of the franchise, dating back even to the first one. I mean, it fits the games and the tone that series goes for, I just happen to disagree with that tone so the music doesn't do too much for me there.

Nah I just mean those hard rock tracks that just get you in the mood of shooting dudes in the face.

Stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGef7RAMe_Q&list=PL948C3C37F1543F1D&index=10

Was Spec Ops' soundtrack ever actually released? I'd love to import it.

antitrop · Jan 7, 2013

zkylon said:
Nah I just mean those hard rock tracks that just get you in the mood of shooting dudes in the face.

Stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGef7RAMe_Q&list=PL948C3C37F1543F1D&index=10

Was Spec Ops' soundtrack ever actually released? I'd love to import it.

OST was never released.

The score was composed by Elia Cmíral.

Kammie · Jan 7, 2013

Finally got the FUBAR achievement! Woohoo. I got through the mortar part with a bit of cheating. I made it up to the point where the checkpoint is by rushing, got murdered by a flock of soldiers, and then the checkpoint started me off right there with all those soldiers killed. It wasn't intentional, it just sort of happened. I rushed in there while I was out of health and two soldiers were coming up on my side. Everything after that was pretty easy.

The whole experience was definitely soured by Adams on the later levels. Crazy kamikaze bastard. When I want to replay it to relive the memories, I certainly won't be doing it in this mode again.

zkylon said:
I think my playtime must've been 22 hours in 4 days, which is a lot for what I'm used to devoting to a single game.

43 hours for me. Two playthroughs on Normal, one Suicide, one FUBAR, which took the longest. Probably died a few hundred times, easy.

Great game, thoroughly enjoyed the story and all the gameplay mechanics. Among the highlights was the ammo management, and the fact you were constantly forced into using different weapons and experimenting a bit with different playstyles. There was one part in particular on FUBAR, where "Nowhere to Run" plays, where I had no ammo of any sort, and I picked up a handgun from the only dead guy around, with which I proceeed to shoot everyone down. Felt like a badass. The shotgun mechanics were also particularly satisfying, especially when going up against a horde of enemies.

I also really like how the game looks bright and cheery with the color palette, but that it doesn't keep it from setting up one of the grimmest moods I've yet seen in a game. Great stuff.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

antitrop said:
OST was never released.

The score was composed by Elia Cmíral.

Sucks, it's one of my favorites of all year.

Kammie said:
Finally got the FUBAR achievement! Woohoo. I got through the mortar part with a bit of cheating. I made it up to the point where the checkpoint is by rushing, got murdered by a flock of soldiers, and then the checkpoint started me off right there with all those soldiers killed. It wasn't intentional, it just sort of happened. I rushed in there while I was out of health and two soldiers were coming up on my side. Everything after that was pretty easy.

The whole experience was definitely soured by Adams on the later levels. Crazy kamikaze bastard. When I want to replay it to relive the memories, I certainly won't be doing it in this mode again.

43 hours for me. Two playthroughs on Normal, one Suicide, one FUBAR, which took the longest. Probably died a few hundred times, easy.

Great game, thoroughly enjoyed the story and all the gameplay mechanics. Among the highlights was the ammo management, and the fact you were constantly forced into using different weapons and experimenting a bit with different playstyles. There was one part in particular on FUBAR, where "Nowhere to Run" plays, where I had no ammo of any sort, and I picked up a handgun from the only dead guy around, with which I proceeed to shoot everyone down. Felt like a badass. The shotgun mechanics were also particularly satisfying, especially when going up against a horde of enemies.

I also really like how the game looks bright and cheery with the color palette, but that it doesn't keep it from setting up one of the grimmest moods I've yet seen in a game. Great stuff.

43 hours, that's a lot of mileage, well done.

I thought the ammo management aspect is one of the gameplay triumphs of the game, I've already noticed it in games like PAYDAY: The Heist, low ammo caps make your every bullet count and just give the game a weird sense of realism I enjoy a lot. Not in the SoD way, but in the feeling of survival and make do with what we have sort of way.

And yeah, I didn't find the latter levels as troublesome as you did, but I'm never playing it on FUBAR again

phosphor112 · Jan 7, 2013

You know what boggled my mind?

Why are they speaking Farsi?...

They should be speaking Arabic.

GayForMaster · Jan 7, 2013

Well I just beat this game. Had no interest in trying until my brother pushed me to play it. I thought it was great. The dialogue is probably my favourite thing in this game. I can't really think of any flaws with this game except for the amount of frags that get tossed at you but I mean, realistically people would do that in war wouldn't they? Although I've never been to war so I'm not completely sure but it seems like an effective strategy. I'd rec this game to all. Much better premise and gameplay than any modern warfare game.

Corky · Jan 7, 2013

phosphor112 said:
You know what boggled my mind?

Why are they speaking Farsi?...

They should be speaking Arabic.

It is indeed odd considering the demographics of Dubai. I mentioned my thoughts about it the last page, pretty cool nonetheless.

suikodan · Jan 7, 2013

I did finish the game yesterday. I grabbed it for 5$ on GMG and it was well worth it.

However, the shooting was average at best. It was obvious that I was playing it for the story alone.

I also agree with other posts in this thread saying that they felt disconnected because you're shooting US soldiers and if you're not from the US, you don't "feel" attached to these soldiers.

I did like the twist, it was clear that Walker was trying to achieve something even though it wasn't his task and kept insisting on saving the people.

But I want to know if I understood right:

Konrad and the 33rd went to Dubaï to help after the storm and tried to evacuate but failed. Martial Law was instaured and during that time, Konrad shot himself for some reason, because it was probably too much for him?

Finally, what shocked me the most was the degradation of the title screen during your progression in the story.

zkylon · Jan 7, 2013

Yes you got that right.

The reason is probably

that he failed to evacuate the people of Dubai, instead bringing even more misery and death. Pretty much exactly what happens to Walker.

Azih · Jan 7, 2013

I think I read in an interview about the language that

they stuck Farsi in there instead of Arabic as a snark at people who have no idea what language people in the region speak anyway or don't give a shit about distinguishing between them. For them they might as well be speaking Farsi

. Have no idea where I read that now though.

Edit: And Konrad

not only failed in his mission after he disobeyed orders to abandon the city, he got plenty of his own men killed and had to execute them under martial law (including the guys with the bags on their heads you find) to prevent rebellion. You need a certain kind of mentality to be an iron fisted tyrant and Konrad couldn't handle it

Corky · Jan 7, 2013

Azih said:
I think I read in an interview about the language that

they stuck Farsi in there instead of Arabic as a snark at people who have no idea what language people in the region speak anyway or don't give a shit about distinguishing between them. For them they might as well be speaking Farsi

. Have no idea where I read that now though.

If intentional like you say then it's god damn amazing.

phosphor112 · Jan 7, 2013

Corky said:
It is indeed odd considering the demographics of Dubai. I mentioned my thoughts about it the last page, pretty cool nonetheless.

Man, that didn't dawn on me. Nice find.

Azih said:
I think I read in an interview about the language that

they stuck Farsi in there instead of Arabic as a snark at people who have no idea what language people in the region speak anyway or don't give a shit about distinguishing between them. For them they might as well be speaking Farsi

. Have no idea where I read that now though.

Edit: And Konrad

not only failed in his mission after he disobeyed orders to abandon the city, he got plenty of his own men killed and had to execute them under martial law (including the guys with the bags on their heads you find) to prevent rebellion. You need a certain kind of mentality to be an iron fisted tyrant and Konrad couldn't handle it

If that is the reason why the used farsi, that's kinda neat.

ironcreed · Jan 7, 2013

antitrop said:
Avoid reading through this thread, even with plenty of marked spoiler tags even just a passing glance at many of the posts in this thread can ruin key gameplay experiences.

Spec Ops: The Line is a game best gone into without expectations. If you have even a passing interest in playing this game, just do so. The more we tell you, the more you have to miss out on your own.

That is what I have been doing. Just glancing at a post or two here and there. I have it on the way from Gamefly and it should be here today or tomorrow. Pretty excited to finally play this.

Ciastek3214 · Jan 7, 2013

I'll just leave this here.

Amir0x · Jan 8, 2013

I just finished this. That was... interesting. Not sure I enjoyed the experience in the way I would a game I could love, but I'm not disappointed I played it. More than its surface criticisms of the military in general, I did appreciate the constant subtext about what it means to be a GAMER who does these things. On more than one occasion I did feel like I was forced into a situation in which the game was making meta-commentary on what it means that I am constantly motivated to push forward in these ultra-violent games, and what the choices one makes when they put certain content in front of them and say the game isn't giving them a 'choice.' I think the game best sums it up with the line "Do you feel like a hero?"

I think there's a lot of interesting things here. I'm not sure it's an entirely successful experiment, but it does fascinate me. And sometimes that's better than just being a straight forward like/dislike.

antitrop · Jan 8, 2013

So, last night I was able to get around to listening Garnett's words on Spec Ops from last Friday's episode (the follow-up to the ignorant dismissal that I transcribed from the previous episode). 1 hour 20 minute time-stamp, Episode 146 for anyone who wants to hear Garnett's thoughts post-backlash.

Anyway, his thoughts on the game were far more coherent and founded in reality and respectable opinions than he showed on the episode previous. At least this time they're not insulting about it. I don't care if they don't like my game, that's fine, just don't fucking talk down to me for liking it. Especially when I'm in the majority.

Again, even if it was only a few sentences they were at least able to have a more respectable periphery discussion about the game than in Episode 145. It's too bad that original conversation had to even happen in the first place, but I blame Jeff Mattas. He was the one that had the most dismissive and insulting comments in the first place, Garnett just provoked it and went along for the ride.

O.DOGG · Jan 8, 2013

Ciastek3214 said:
I'll just leave this here.

"He turned us into fucking killers!"

Nice one.

Kammie · Jan 8, 2013

Man.. so you know that when you dream that you're Walker, and your girlfriend kicks you out of the house, and Lugo and Adams help you move out and carry your bags and your two cats in a carrier, while sneaking around L.A. to make it to the bus stop... and then the bus swerves while you wait for it and runs into you and you die... and you wake up... that's when you can tell the real message of the game got across to you. Or at least that FUBAR has messed with your mind.

zkylon · Jan 8, 2013

Kammie said:
Man.. so you know that when you dream that you're Walker, and your girlfriend kicks you out of the house, and Lugo and Adams help you move out and carry your bags and your two cats in a carrier, while sneaking around L.A. to make it to the bus stop... and then the bus swerves while you wait for it and runs into you and you die... and you wake up... that's when you can tell the real message of the game got across to you. Or at least that FUBAR has messed with your mind.

Holy shit you got ErikB'ed

Jibbajabbawockky · Jan 8, 2013

Just got around to finishing this today. Went in only knowing that the story was the main draw and the gunplay was supposedly quite bad or something. Personally, I thought the gameplay was fine playing with mouse and keyboard on PC. Its not great, but its not offensively bad or anything either.

As far as the story goes, its thought provoking. I was kind of guessing the ending sort of early on, but its refreshing to see a game touch on the themes that Spec Ops touches on.

I maybe wish they gave you an option in the white phosphorus scene instead of making that a completely forced decision- or at least playing up the illusion of a choice. Maybe make it possible to try attacking the troops conventionally and fighting hopelessly for a bit but being forced to resort to the white phosphorus, instead of pretty much going for it right off the bat.

I "liked" the moment when Lugo was hung, if only because I was pissed and really wanted to shoot the civilians but I didn't. Anytime a game can get your emotions at play like that and then sort of toy with them is great. What's even better is you could totally shoot at them or not and the game just keeps going- you don't get some Game Over screen or anything.

zkylon · Jan 8, 2013

Jibbajabbawockky said:
Just got around to finishing this today. Went in only knowing that the story was the main draw and the gunplay was supposedly quite bad or something. Personally, I thought the gameplay was fine playing with mouse and keyboard on PC. Its not great, but its not offensively bad or anything either.

As far as the story goes, its thought provoking. I was kind of guessing the ending sort of early on, but its refreshing to see a game touch on the themes that Spec Ops touches on.

I maybe wish they gave you an option in the white phosphorus scene instead of making that a completely forced decision- or at least playing up the illusion of a choice. Maybe make it possible to try attacking the troops conventionally and fighting hopelessly for a bit but being forced to resort to the white phosphorus, instead of pretty much going for it right off the bat.

I "liked" the moment when Lugo was hung, if only because I was pissed and really wanted to shoot the civilians but I didn't. Anytime a game can get your emotions at play like that and then sort of toy with them is great. What's even better is you could totally shoot at them or not and the game just keeps going- you don't get some Game Over screen or anything.

Actually you can try to use small arms against them and you get gunned down very easily. I spent a little while trying because I thought using White Phosphorus against hostiles was just as bad, until I got convinced this was a non-choice.

Jibbajabbawockky · Jan 8, 2013

zkylon said:
Actually you can try to use small arms against them and you get gunned down very easily. I spent a little while trying because I thought using White Phosphorus against hostiles was just as bad, until I got convinced this was a non-choice.

Yeah, I tried too. I was thinking more along the lines of the game trying to lead you into trying to attack conventionally first, realizing how hard it is and then discovering that you could use white phosphorus if you wanted. As it is now, it feels like you find the white phosphorus right off the bat without trying anything else.

Maybe force the player to fight against overwhelming odds, sort of piss the player off against the enemy and then present the white phosphorus as a nice shortcut. So you kind of get the player into your aggressive Rambo mentality of just wasting everything when they get to the targeting part of the white phosphorus section, maybe masking the presence of the civilians a bit more since the player is just in the mood to kill everything.

antitrop · Jan 8, 2013

Jibbajabbawockky said:
Maybe force the player to fight against overwhelming odds, sort of piss the player off against the enemy and then present the white phosphorus as a nice shortcut. So you kind of get the player into your aggressive Rambo mentality of just wasting everything when they get to the targeting part of the white phosphorus section, maybe masking the presence of the civilians a bit more since the player is just in the mood to kill everything.

In the Walt Williams GameSpot interview, he said if there was one thing they could go back and change about the game it would be this ^.

zkylon · Jan 8, 2013

Jibbajabbawockky said:
Yeah, I tried too. I was thinking more along the lines of the game trying to lead you into trying to attack conventionally first, realizing how hard it is and then discovering that you could use white phosphorus if you wanted. As it is now, it feels like you find the white phosphorus right off the bat without trying anything else.

Maybe force the player to fight against overwhelming odds, sort of piss the player off against the enemy and then present the white phosphorus as a nice shortcut. So you kind of get the player into your aggressive Rambo mentality of just wasting everything when they get to the targeting part of the white phosphorus section, maybe masking the presence of the civilians a bit more since the player is just in the mood to kill everything.

Yeah that most certainly would've been better.

JDSN · Jan 8, 2013

O.DOGG said:
"He turned us into fucking killers!"

Nice one.

I always loved that line considering that Adams wanted to use it even before engaging the soldiers, he showed no remorse for some of the actions he did in the game and was in many ways worst that Walker.

The details on Walker's eyes is amazing, ditto on the

world on flames scene

Jibbajabbawockky said:
Yeah, I tried too. I was thinking more along the lines of the game trying to lead you into trying to attack conventionally first, realizing how hard it is and then discovering that you could use white phosphorus if you wanted. As it is now, it feels like you find the white phosphorus right off the bat without trying anything else.

Maybe force the player to fight against overwhelming odds, sort of piss the player off against the enemy and then present the white phosphorus as a nice shortcut. So you kind of get the player into your aggressive Rambo mentality of just wasting everything when they get to the targeting part of the white phosphorus section, maybe masking the presence of the civilians a bit more since the player is just in the mood to kill everything.

They dropped the ball on that scene in general by warning the player that shit could potentially go wrong by presenting the silly binary choices between listening to one of your teammates, it raised some alarms in me because of that, they could have just played it straight like Call of Duty during the predator parts, shooting with no questions asked while bad quips were said and then let you see the outcome.

zkylon · Jan 8, 2013

JDSN said:
I always loved that line considering that Lugo wanted to use it even before engaging the soldiers, he showed no remorse for some of the actions he did in the game and was in many ways worst that Walker.

The details on Walker's eyes is amazing, ditto on the

world on flames scene

I think Lugo was against using WP, while Adams and Walker were all for it (in the "we have no choice" kind of way).

RionaaM · Jan 8, 2013

Jibbajabbawockky said:
Yeah, I tried too. I was thinking more along the lines of the game trying to lead you into trying to attack conventionally first, realizing how hard it is and then discovering that you could use white phosphorus if you wanted. As it is now, it feels like you find the white phosphorus right off the bat without trying anything else.

Maybe force the player to fight against overwhelming odds, sort of piss the player off against the enemy and then present the white phosphorus as a nice shortcut. So you kind of get the player into your aggressive Rambo mentality of just wasting everything when they get to the targeting part of the white phosphorus section, maybe masking the presence of the civilians a bit more since the player is just in the mood to kill everything.

This is exactly what I thought in that same part. I felt that resorting to respawning snipers was a really cheap way of forcing me to use the phosphorus. And the game didn't let me rappel down until I used it, and because that's the first thing I tried to do, I immediately realised there was no choice there, which lessened the emotional impact of the scene that followed.

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