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afternoon delight · Apr 2, 2015

Those are the facts as compared to our former rulers.

Here's one article discussing it

Police slayings are a hot topic right now but I felt this statistic was a fantastic way of framing the "debate". Whatever your ideas are of HOW we arrived at such a brutal point, what are some possible solutions and thoughts?

I suggest a major focus be placed on non-lethal submission tactics, better training, better funding, and perhaps an introduction of their own "three strikes" policy in terms of "we can't catch you thrice beating the shit out of a suspect just because you're the only person we have to fill the job."

More officers speaking in public against the actions of their clearly diseased peers would also be a HUGE step towards ending the animosity a blue wall of silence gives the rest of us.

Valhelm · Apr 2, 2015

I don't even know what to say.

CrushDance · Apr 2, 2015

Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

Jaeger · Apr 2, 2015

Good Lord.

Omegasquash · Apr 2, 2015

Valhelm said:
I don't even know what to say.

Puts a lump in my throat too. Jesus.

Reset · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

The UK is smaller than Texas.

Zen_Arcade · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

I don't think that really excuses the 115 year head start the UK had.

bananafactory · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

Yeah. I'm not saying there's no problem there but it's kind of a poor comparison.

harSon · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

Yeah, but they still killed more in one month than the UK has in over a century.

AlteredForms · Apr 2, 2015

Them donuts are messing with your law enforcement officers. Got them all twitchy.

diffusionx · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

So UK had 44 (I think? Quick count of the link) killed by cops and US had 111 in march.

Adjust by population (UK has 64M, US has around 300) and UK had 206 since 1900. So more, but I think the point still stands.

Lan Dong Mik · Apr 2, 2015

bananafactory said:
Yeah. I'm not saying there's no problem there but it's kind of a poor comparison.

It really is. I underatand this is a problem for sure, but the UK is like the size of California ffs.

Skellig Gra · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

Right, plus the higher chance that criminals will be armed and dangerous in America.

dabig2 · Apr 2, 2015

Expected when you're trained to treat civilians like they're armed combatants in a war. Also our healthcare system, particularly mental health, is nonexistent more or less.

minx · Apr 2, 2015

Not even remotely comparable.

M0nochromatic · Apr 2, 2015

It's disturbing that this is a phenomenon that is just casually accepted, and even defended.

Some justice system.

painey · Apr 2, 2015

BkzUzi said:
The UK is smaller than Texas.

64 million people in the UK

25 million people in Texas

I'm not really sure that land area is that important when comparing death figures.

TheBowen · Apr 2, 2015

I mean obviously accounting for the fact that some of these are most likely genuine 'they shot first' incidents and the fact that there are more police and, of course, many more citizens in the USA compared to UK it still is a staggering statistic and still something needs to be done about both the racial prejudice in the force and some of the trigger happy gunmen who are being employed as police officers.

MrChom · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

The UK is roughly 1/5th the populace of America.....in 1/50th the space. We're living on top of each other compared to the US and we manage to get along

Kabouter · Apr 2, 2015

BkzUzi said:
The UK is smaller than Texas.

Geographic size definitely seems like a highly relevant factor here.

hipbabboom · Apr 2, 2015

Okay OP, I'll give you that but can you say the UK enjoys the kind of "freedoms" we do? I rest my case.

Walshicus · Apr 2, 2015

bananafactory said:
Yeah. I'm not saying there's no problem there but it's kind of a poor comparison.

Not really. Let's say that the countries in the UK averaged 1/6th of the population of the USA over the last 110 years - that's still saying that the US is +1800% up.

Edit: Actually that would be 22000% as the comparison was 110 years to 1 month.

Angelus Errare · Apr 2, 2015

Well maybe because in America people are more likely to make sudden movements because of the lead in paint? Mental health? Rap music? Obama? Mental health brought on by Obama getting into office because of rap music?

Kyuur · Apr 2, 2015

Enforce gun regulation and remove lethal options from police's inventory. Seems to work in other countries.

ElectricBlanketFire · Apr 2, 2015

Angelus Errare said:
Well maybe because in America people are more likely to make sudden movements because of the lead in paint? Mental health? Rap music? Obama? Mental health brought on by Obama getting into office because of rap music?

Nope. None of those things.

It's video games.

iMax · Apr 2, 2015

Kabouter said:
Geographic size definitely seems like a highly relevant factor here.

I really don't think it is when you consider we're comparing one month against 115 years. Even if the statistics were corrected to reflect that, it's still a depressingly large statistic.

PBY · Apr 2, 2015

Sir Fragula said:
Not really. Let's say that the countries in the UK averaged 1/6th of the population of the USA over the last 110 years - that's still saying that the US is +1800% up.

Sure- but there are a ton of other factors to consider that make this a bad comparison. The access to guns for one. I think its more than a bad cop/good cop issue- its more a wholesale look at America's problems with guns, police militarization, and violent crime.

Coins · Apr 2, 2015

Cops in the UK don't really have to deal with an armed population.

Reset · Apr 2, 2015

painey said:
64 million people in the UK

25 million people in Texas

I'm not really sure that land area is that important when comparing death figures.

Haha you're right. But taking as a whole the US still has a higher population count, but that doesn't change change the fact it's still pretty messed up how there's more deaths in a month in the US than compared to UK's 100 years. :|

- J - D - · Apr 2, 2015

This is especially insane if you consider that the rate of violent crime in the US is actually lower for past 2 years in comparison to that of the UK from 2012 onward. Combine that with the siginificant difference in overall population (300+ million vs. 65+ million), the rate of deaths by the hand of the police force(s) in this country is just staggering.

Schweinehund · Apr 2, 2015

Wonder what luxembourg vs uk figures are like.

Messypandas · Apr 2, 2015

5 x the people 1380 x the killings. Makes sense.

HK-47 · Apr 2, 2015

Look at all the excuses. Just a ripe field full of them.

Instro · Apr 2, 2015

In don't think its too surprising when you considering that the population and the police are far less armed than ours.

iMax · Apr 2, 2015

hipbabboom said:
Okay OP, I'll give you that but can you say the UK enjoys the kind of "freedoms" we do? I rest my case.

Define 'freedoms'?

frontovik · Apr 2, 2015

Interesting stats, but it's not an ideal comparison since not all police officers in the UK are armed and firearms laws are more restrictive for civilians there.

However, I agree that US agencies need to focus on providing more non-lethal training to encourage their officers to use tactical communication and less use of deadly force.

kirblar · Apr 2, 2015

Coins said:
Cops in the UK don't really have to deal with an armed population.

Bingo.

sh4mike · Apr 2, 2015

The proliferation of guns in America is a leading contributor to police use of lethal force.

Aurongel · Apr 2, 2015

I'm just as critical of our current police force as anyone else but this is a hilariously inflammatory comparison.

Earthstrike · Apr 2, 2015

BkzUzi said:
The UK is smaller than Texas.

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

bananafactory said:
Yeah. I'm not saying there's no problem there but it's kind of a poor comparison.

Firstly, If you're talking about idiotic comparisons, then please reference the relative populations, not relative geographical area FFS.

Secondly, why don't we go ahead and do the population comparison.
U.K. : 64.0 million
U,S,A: 320.2 million
Ratio: 5

So a more accurate comparison would be one month in the U.S.A to 5 months in the U.K.

... Oh wait the U.K. has had less despite the timeframe of comparison being about a century longer than what would be "fair".

CDX · Apr 2, 2015

Damn, that sad. I don't even know what to say.

Our police obviously need different/better training.

I just ...wow

population size comparisons don't even begin to make those numbers look sane.

Messypandas said:
5 x the people 1380 x the killings. Makes sense.

.

MormaPope · Apr 2, 2015

Honestly a more apt comparison would be the US versus Russia or China.

Countries in South America probably have the highest death tolls out there.

Angelus Errare · Apr 2, 2015

peterb0y said:
Sure- but there are a ton of other factors to consider that make this a bad comparison. The access to guns for one. I think its more than a bad cop/good cop issue- its more a wholesale look at America's problems with guns, police militarization, and violent crime.

But what came first?! The guns or police militarization and violent crimes!?!? We NEED guns to stahp the tyranny and militarization of the police and to stop violent crimes that happen because everyone has a gun! If we don't give everyone a gun how can we stop the militarization of the police or the government when they come take our guns? When they take our guns how can we stop violent crimes from occurring?! YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS PETER!

TheLaughingStock · Apr 2, 2015

How many people did Iranian police kill? That's the only thing I'm concerned about.

dabig2 · Apr 2, 2015

For those arguing unfair comparison due to population sizes and land size, just compare us to China. I'll help out, China had 12 police killings last year. Pretty sure there will be that many in the USA by the end of this week.

AlteredForms · Apr 2, 2015

painey said:
64 million people in the UK

25 million people in Texas

I'm not really sure that land area is that important when comparing death figures.

A small question not relating to the topic. If you're from the US, why do you have an English flag as your avatar? Are you an anglophile?

Borgnine · Apr 2, 2015

The United States has 90 guns per 100 citizens, the UK has 6.6 per 100 citizens. Surely this is a significant factor.

jakonovski · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

Take out pen and paper and you will find out it doesn't matter with numbers like this.

PBY · Apr 2, 2015

CDX said:
Damn, that sad. I don't even know what to say.

Our police obviously need different/better training.

I just ...wow

population size comparisons don't even begin to make those numbers look sane.

Again- militarization of police is definitely a critical issue. But there are other issues at play here besides "bad cops," not to excuse a significant problem. These numbers are influenced by a proliferation of guns, racial/poverty issues, etc.

Pops Maellard · Apr 2, 2015

CrushDance said:
Doesn't America also have way more people and police though?

The U.S population is 5 times that of the U.K. If we're going to play the whole "they have less people so it's not a fair comparison" card, then it stands to reason that to reasonably compare the two countries, all we have to do is multiply the total number of police killings in the U.K (68), by five. This gives us a total of 340.

The U.S has had far more police killings than that in the past few years alone.

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