It's only one exclusive titles - the DSi had a bunch of exclusives as well. For there to be real segmentation there would have to be a decent number of new titles on both the old system and the new one. You can see that effect with the 32X, Kinect, and other hardware.
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Should Nintendo have dropped the gamepad back in 2013 to reduce console price?
- Thread starter VertPin
- Start date
Have a mini-map, Hold L, have a cursor appear over mini-map instantly, select with A
Press B, fast select a teammate or spawn pawn to jump to with A
That's still terrible UI for the game. Having the mini-map at the bottom of the screen makes it a blind spot for anyone coming at you from the side hiding in ink. It's also taking a good portion of the screen there in your pic. The UI on top of the screen is minimalist and readable and not in the way of combat or any sort of action. If you made the mini-map clear, then you'll have issues on colors blending in making it difficult to see who's marked turf and where.
There's also the problem that I will never play this game ever without gyro because I suck at twinstick controls. Pro controller doesn't have gryo (which I do think is dumb btw), all controllers should have gyro going forward and actually use them.
It was a lot of miscalculations and the gamepad is actually the least of the problems with the Wii U. Personally I enjoy the system but they can't expect to be able to support a system alone especially while supporting a handheld. Console/PC market have moved on and currently the major sellers are indeed going to be the ones with the most marketing or viral muscle behind them. Since I don't think major 3rd Parties will ever make a large effort to port to a Nintendo system, Nintendo needs to do a lot more to court indie developers and smaller studios.
I think they really missed the boat on the gamepad - the gamepad would have been the perfect control method for certain genres of games that hardly make their way to consoles. There is simply genres which cannot be properly utilized on consoles because of the control methods - but on a console with a gamepad could have worked. If I was Nintendo one of the first thing I would have done is to pay T2 into making Firaxis do Civ like game in the Mario Universe. Pay Sega to have Creative Assembly do an RTS in the Zelda Universe. And also ensure DQ Builders make its way to the console - that seems like a title that would probably been very suitable on the gamepad. Also not securing Minecraft is foolish on Nintendo's part and foolish is the most polite way I could put that type of oversight.
Main thing is that if you have something different than the other hardware holders - you going to have to fork out to have some games specifically cater to whatever you are doing. So if once again they go a different route they either need to consolidate the handheld/console game development divisions so they are capable to service the console with minimum amount of 3rd party games or they would simply repeat what occurred with the Wii U.
On the Wii's there weren't major development costs for Nintendo but that also hurt them since they were unprepared for the development times on their new console. There is a lot of games I'm not interested in on the Wii U for one reason or another but for me personally two/three games are enough to justify the investment. I'm guessing the 10 million or so people that bought the Wii U also own a different console/PC/handheld to play games. The output by Nintendo isn't enough to justify the purchase if you don't have alternative hardware that provides you with different gaming experiences. The price of the Wii U isn't the major problem people are making it out to be - it's more about making an informed decision. I completely understand someone going with the twins if he could only spare enough money for one console and has no gaming PC/Laptop. Unless you are diehard fan and know that you would enjoy every game Nintendo puts out than the Wii U shouldn't be your only way of playing games.
PS: Gyro is amazing for a shooter and having tried a few rounds without it I appreciate how much time some people have sunk into console shooters to get gud with an inferior control method.
I think they really missed the boat on the gamepad - the gamepad would have been the perfect control method for certain genres of games that hardly make their way to consoles. There is simply genres which cannot be properly utilized on consoles because of the control methods - but on a console with a gamepad could have worked. If I was Nintendo one of the first thing I would have done is to pay T2 into making Firaxis do Civ like game in the Mario Universe. Pay Sega to have Creative Assembly do an RTS in the Zelda Universe. And also ensure DQ Builders make its way to the console - that seems like a title that would probably been very suitable on the gamepad. Also not securing Minecraft is foolish on Nintendo's part and foolish is the most polite way I could put that type of oversight.
Main thing is that if you have something different than the other hardware holders - you going to have to fork out to have some games specifically cater to whatever you are doing. So if once again they go a different route they either need to consolidate the handheld/console game development divisions so they are capable to service the console with minimum amount of 3rd party games or they would simply repeat what occurred with the Wii U.
On the Wii's there weren't major development costs for Nintendo but that also hurt them since they were unprepared for the development times on their new console. There is a lot of games I'm not interested in on the Wii U for one reason or another but for me personally two/three games are enough to justify the investment. I'm guessing the 10 million or so people that bought the Wii U also own a different console/PC/handheld to play games. The output by Nintendo isn't enough to justify the purchase if you don't have alternative hardware that provides you with different gaming experiences. The price of the Wii U isn't the major problem people are making it out to be - it's more about making an informed decision. I completely understand someone going with the twins if he could only spare enough money for one console and has no gaming PC/Laptop. Unless you are diehard fan and know that you would enjoy every game Nintendo puts out than the Wii U shouldn't be your only way of playing games.
PS: Gyro is amazing for a shooter and having tried a few rounds without it I appreciate how much time some people have sunk into console shooters to get gud with an inferior control method.
Well I would have bought one if it didn't have such an uncomfortable controller even without the price drop, so personally yes. I don't think it would have made the Wii U a success though, there's just not that many must have games on it. It does have great exclusives but so does Playstation and Xbox and they also have loads of really great third party games too.
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
Holy crap dude, just admit you were wrong and move on.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
My view is that segmentation comes from within the same platform, not through the creation of seperate platforms.
So to me something like the N64 RAM pack created segmentation because there were N64 games, an N64 owner was unable to play unless they owned the device.
It's branded the same but it has a different architecture, sdk and separate QA process. I guess it depends on how you define a platform, although Nintendo doesn't consider n3DS a separate one from 3Ds. Same with GB/GBC or DS/DSi. On the other hand they consider Gamecube and Wii separate platforms, even though by most metrics other than branding they're not much different from the other previous examples.
Whoops, I had a brain cramp there. I was talking about "market fragmentation"; but I guess we're on the same page anyways.
Market fragmentation doesn't happen in the case of the 3DS because there are no products that can't be played on the old one other than Xenoblade. If Nintendo and the other publishers were to make a whole bunch of New 3DS-only games, then we'd start to see fragmentation.
Chill Penguin
Member
Yes. I decided to completely forgo the console due to the high price. I'll pick up the inevitable remasters on nx. It's like they forgot what made wii successful. If wii launched at $349 instead of $249 it never would've taken off the way it did.
Well they did remove the charger to drop the price.
Yeah, people were really chomping at the bit to buy a Nintendo version of hardware that was as capable as consoles 6 years its senior.
I'm a Nintendo fan and as soon as the casual market was gone, which was long before the Wii U launched, it was pretty clear this wasn't going to fly. There's no getting around it. Nintendo's been twiddling their thumbs this generation because they knew they were fucked before it even came out and tried to make the best of it.
Price wasn't going to do it. People already had a device that scratched their itch and, if sinking iPod sales tell you anything, people aren't interested in spending money on devices that fill needs that are already met by what they already have.
Yeah, gamers ARE the market they need to target, because when you ignore them, you end up with a 10 million user base.
I want to play every Nintendo game in their back catalog without owning a fucking handheld. The GamePad is the only way to achieve that.
Off-TV Play is pretty great. It's currently the only way I can play my Wii U now that my plasma TV is dead.
Luigi's Ghost Mansion in NintendoLand still comes out when I have guests, because I can't get anything like that in an actual group setting.
These are not "missable" things for me.
You'd need to define "recovery". Considering they built their follow-up to be a profit margin sponge, the matter is quite debatable and would have likely not been as good a recovery with PS4 had Microsoft not fumbled the ball so spectacularly prior to launch.
DS Virtual Console. I want it, and without the GamePad, I'd never have it. There's a great chunk more than 2 games validating its existence.
BINGO.
Added a lot to the price. Past tense.
Having a Miracast Wi-Fi chip before Miracast was even a fucking THING, coupled with the screen's size, is what made it expensive. Both of those things are either already a non-issue or easily made into a non-issue.
It would be, because smaller screen means smaller battery, so it has a cascade effect on the cost of components within it.
The Maverick
Member
I still can't believe that a tablet was expected to be the hook of a gaming system. In 2012.
It's a controller with a screen. An idea that's been played with in the past i.e GCN to GBA connectivity.
Stormwatch
Member
I don't like fragmenting the user base, so I don't think they should have removed it. Look at what happened with Kinect. Microsoft removed it and now nobody is developing for it. That means that everyone who bought one with a Kinect has a somewhat useless piece of $100 hardware. I could see the same thing happening with a removed gamepad from Nintendo. Developers would have to come up with an idea so great that it would entice someone to not only buy your $60 game, but also a $100 controller.
DragonSworne
Banned
They should have never made it to begin with. Two failed E3s should have been enough clue for Nintendo that the game pad should have been a no-go.
Bioshocker
Member
They messed up. The Ipad launched in 2010 and Nintendo probably wanted to make something out of this idea and of course expand their two screen idea (asymmetric gameplay).
xaeroxcore
Banned
THEY STILL CAN DO IT NOW...I MEAN LAUNCH A NEW BASIC BUNDLE WITHOUT GAMEPAD AT 199 OR LESS. FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WANTS THE CONSOLE JUST FOR CERTAIN GAMES THAT DON´T NEED GAMEPAD MANDATORY...IN OTHER HAND..THEY STILL CAN SELL GAMEPAD BUNDLES, AND GAMPEAD SOLD SEPARATELY, FOR THE ONES WHO WNATS TO TAKE ADVATAGE OF IT...
Sony's gone from 3rd place last gen, to a majority market leader this gen. None of the other two are even coming close this cycle. Their game division has had a massive turnaround but continue your downplay. I expect nothing less from you.
Yes and no.
I think the Nintendo should have reevaluated the situation mid-2014 and made the Wii U GamePad an optional controller, available separately. The OS should have been updated so the Pro Controller could be used as a main control scheme and they should have begun shipping a lower-cost package (under $249.99) containing the 32GB console and a Pro Controller.
Regardless, I love my Wii U and am happy that more people seem to finally be buying one.
I think the Nintendo should have reevaluated the situation mid-2014 and made the Wii U GamePad an optional controller, available separately. The OS should have been updated so the Pro Controller could be used as a main control scheme and they should have begun shipping a lower-cost package (under $249.99) containing the 32GB console and a Pro Controller.
Regardless, I love my Wii U and am happy that more people seem to finally be buying one.
Not all of them. PS2 slim for example killed compatibility with any PS2 game that required the HDD (like FFXI).
Sword Of Doom
Member
I'm glad they stuck by their product and their vision. As a lot of people have said, we wouldn't have Mario Maker if they had dropped it. Also the offscreen play is pretty cool.
As soon as you make it optional you are basically killing it. Look at the kinect. Long term who knows, maybe it will pay off if the technology evolves and they incorporate it into the NX.
As soon as you make it optional you are basically killing it. Look at the kinect. Long term who knows, maybe it will pay off if the technology evolves and they incorporate it into the NX.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I don't see the conjecture, Nintendo might have still tried to sell the gamepad with software and content creator games have been popular in recent years.
Mario Builder also already existed and Mario Maker could work with a gamepad.
Nintendo would sit on a huge stock of gamepads they'd have to sell in addition
Are you having a stroke?
Like Sony should have dropped the back touchpad on Vita to reduce the price, yes.
Honestly, I think the Wii U's biggest problem was a combo of not having much third party support and being almost as pricey as PS4/xbox one (or rather almost as pricey as you would expect a "next gen console that does all the games" would be). If they either had third party games I think they could easily get away with it. Even been seen as a good cheaper alternative at that price. Or if they were cheaper they could be seen as a viable purchase just for Nintendo games as well as whatever computer/console the person had to play the third party games. And waiting until later to be cheaper doesn't work, that kills momentum (it's too late now which is why you see it not working when they do hit prices of where people originally said their price point was).
Vita had the same problem. Sony priced it way too expensive than a handheld was going to sell no matter how nice the handheld. There's a certain point that most people just aren't going to spend money on an type item no matter how good the tech. And really a handheld should be less than 200 dollars. Sony should have figured out what to sacrifice (and I think the back touchpad was a really good start since very few games ended up using it) to make it cheaper.
Honestly, I think the Wii U's biggest problem was a combo of not having much third party support and being almost as pricey as PS4/xbox one (or rather almost as pricey as you would expect a "next gen console that does all the games" would be). If they either had third party games I think they could easily get away with it. Even been seen as a good cheaper alternative at that price. Or if they were cheaper they could be seen as a viable purchase just for Nintendo games as well as whatever computer/console the person had to play the third party games. And waiting until later to be cheaper doesn't work, that kills momentum (it's too late now which is why you see it not working when they do hit prices of where people originally said their price point was).
Vita had the same problem. Sony priced it way too expensive than a handheld was going to sell no matter how nice the handheld. There's a certain point that most people just aren't going to spend money on an type item no matter how good the tech. And really a handheld should be less than 200 dollars. Sony should have figured out what to sacrifice (and I think the back touchpad was a really good start since very few games ended up using it) to make it cheaper.