hooijdonk17
Member
I feel like it's been turning to shit since 2007 or so. I've been gaming since 1987 (Atari 800XL).
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You ever feel like you are helplessly watching the industry turn to shit?
- Thread starter RipperGrim
- Start date
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
FinalxxSin
Banned
It's still good to be a gamer, but you have to do your research and not fall for crap. DLC in some cases is great (Dragon Age games are an example for me), but more times than not it's crap imo.
Companies put out games that don't properly function day one, and I can't fully blame the Devs as they are probably hard pressed on time.
The next gen consoles will hopefully be capable of handling 60 fps across the board, but only time will tell on that. I'm not expecting those consoles to be able to do 4k, but 2k would be nice. I'd pay for that, but others probably wouldn't.
Companies put out games that don't properly function day one, and I can't fully blame the Devs as they are probably hard pressed on time.
The next gen consoles will hopefully be capable of handling 60 fps across the board, but only time will tell on that. I'm not expecting those consoles to be able to do 4k, but 2k would be nice. I'd pay for that, but others probably wouldn't.
Definitely. Disappearance of mid budget games/studios swallowed by big ones. Or just closed down. Plethora of attempts to milk gamers as much as possible. And general bad attitude big studios have towards gamers. Releases of buggy and unfinished products. Bullshit PR talk on every corner. Lack of genre variety that indie devs try to fill but there's a limit to what those 5 man teams can really pull of. Most AAA games now feeling like they were dump out of factory tape instead of being built with genuine passion. That dumb trend of endless re-releasing old classic games with new paint on it...
I think it's just a result of gaming becoming mainstream. Products for the masses created by the numbers instead of creative ideas and playing with the medium.
It bothered me for some time but I decided to not to worry about things that I have no influence on. Right now I'm just digging through huge library of games from previous generations that I didn't have chance to tackle on. And still enjoying this hobby.
As for new releases I'm just VERY careful of what to buy. Thankfully sites like this one are really helpful with choosing what's worth the purchase and what's not.
I think it's just a result of gaming becoming mainstream. Products for the masses created by the numbers instead of creative ideas and playing with the medium.
It bothered me for some time but I decided to not to worry about things that I have no influence on. Right now I'm just digging through huge library of games from previous generations that I didn't have chance to tackle on. And still enjoying this hobby.
As for new releases I'm just VERY careful of what to buy. Thankfully sites like this one are really helpful with choosing what's worth the purchase and what's not.
Nope. I never pay attention to anything but games I'm interested in. Give no fucks about politics of the industry. I never buy dlc anyway nor do I care if I'm missing out on some character outfit because I didn't preorder with a certain retailer.
Is there any other industry where the customers are so damn interested in the companies? Why don't we see people flipping their shit if Paramount pictures has different trailers depending on theater location? I'm expected to see the movie 3 times to see different trailers? FILMGATE!!
Nah, I'm loving my gaming at the moment.
There are so many amazing experiences to be had, AAA and otherwise. I look at the stuff I'm playing and its astonishing to me that these experiences exist, if 10 year old me playing Sonic on his Master System could have seen the sort of games I'd be playing it would have blown my mind.
There are so many amazing experiences to be had, AAA and otherwise. I look at the stuff I'm playing and its astonishing to me that these experiences exist, if 10 year old me playing Sonic on his Master System could have seen the sort of games I'd be playing it would have blown my mind.
RipperGrim
Member
Has a movie ever been screened where it wasn't finished or had to be fixed before you could watch it properly? Comparing the two industries like that is ridiculous.
That literally happens all the time.
ClosingADoor
Member
Director Cuts are a thing. Movie companies do limited screenings to test audience reactions.
I think what he's trying to say is movies don't have technical problems. The screen doesn't become black for 5 minutes in theaters. Or movie doesn't hang and you have to start watching it again etc. You can dislike the content but you get seamless experience. Haven't heard of a movie that someone could not watch to the end because of some "movie braking" bug. If you have DVD player and not scratched DVD disc (from your region) you can watch it without any problems.
Snatch1414
Banned
It depends on what you're looking for honestly. I think the biggest difference between gaming now and gaming say, 10 years ago is that the big budget games aren't the leaders of innovation, they're rehashes of the same formula over and over. Your gaming library takes a big hit when the so-called best games are mostly the same old shit.
My thing is I think open world is getting stale via oversaturation, and frankly I'm just sick of playing 3rd person games. I make exceptions but overall I think we may have hit a wall because companies don't want to make out of the box ideas because they're afraid they won't sell.
Honestly I think it trickles down from Sony and MS. They aren't game companies. They're companies that got into video games because they thought it would be profitable for them and look good on a pie chart.
My thing is I think open world is getting stale via oversaturation, and frankly I'm just sick of playing 3rd person games. I make exceptions but overall I think we may have hit a wall because companies don't want to make out of the box ideas because they're afraid they won't sell.
Honestly I think it trickles down from Sony and MS. They aren't game companies. They're companies that got into video games because they thought it would be profitable for them and look good on a pie chart.
MrPressStart
Member
No ... but I feel that way about society!
tiredheadcrab
Member
Nah not really. I am pretty happy with the industry and such. There are a few bad apples but that doesnt bring down my hobby. PC gaming is here and stronger than ever, esports is a popular thing now and that is awesome. Both the xbox one and ps4 are doing well. The Deus ex preorder thing was terrible. I wont preorder that game ever. If a game fails or is broken i feel like we have a bigger voice than ever before and thats a good thing.
Mobile is an awesome platform. I like the fact that people who arent as into the hobby as some others have access to simple content that doesnt require and huge time investment. Its still in its infancy and developers are capitalizing on the free to play model but that could come back and bite them soon enough. There is still work to be done as i do feel over half of mobile games are trash, and Apple needs to take gaming a bit more seriously and by that i mean not freak out and take down games that have the confederate flag in a historic context in the game.
Gamergate was a silly terrible thing and will go away over time as progression continues.
Mobile is an awesome platform. I like the fact that people who arent as into the hobby as some others have access to simple content that doesnt require and huge time investment. Its still in its infancy and developers are capitalizing on the free to play model but that could come back and bite them soon enough. There is still work to be done as i do feel over half of mobile games are trash, and Apple needs to take gaming a bit more seriously and by that i mean not freak out and take down games that have the confederate flag in a historic context in the game.
Gamergate was a silly terrible thing and will go away over time as progression continues.
Nah, the industry isn't turning to shit... Like any other industry there are some shitty practices, some great practices, and everything in between...
It'll self correct ... And the thing we all need to realize is that our own tastes and preferences shouldn't speak for everyone else... If there is a market for a game that employs some 'shitty' practices, then that game should exists, because obviously someone is buying it... If you personally don't like it don't buy it, problem solved...
As far as buying timed exclusivity, it's nothing new...
There was a post the other day about how GameStop is struggling to get people to buy and sell used games. Now that digital has become a viable option, they'll have to find a strategy that better resonates with consumers... This is just one example of self-correction at work.
It'll self correct ... And the thing we all need to realize is that our own tastes and preferences shouldn't speak for everyone else... If there is a market for a game that employs some 'shitty' practices, then that game should exists, because obviously someone is buying it... If you personally don't like it don't buy it, problem solved...
As far as buying timed exclusivity, it's nothing new...
There was a post the other day about how GameStop is struggling to get people to buy and sell used games. Now that digital has become a viable option, they'll have to find a strategy that better resonates with consumers... This is just one example of self-correction at work.
blast processed
Member
Ignorance is bliss. I play games that look interesting and if there is a lull in releases, I go retro for awhile. I try to avoid all of the industry BS, I don't even know what Gamergate is about, but enjoy a good train wreck once and awhile.
afternoon delight
Member
1. Grab a PC
2a. Play older games between new releases.
2b. Play indies made by lifelong fans of their respective genres.
3. Ignore the majority of releases because they're disposable.
4. Feel good again!
Also, always wait for the GOTY. Always.
2a. Play older games between new releases.
2b. Play indies made by lifelong fans of their respective genres.
3. Ignore the majority of releases because they're disposable.
4. Feel good again!
Also, always wait for the GOTY. Always.
EchoChamber
Member
I just like to play videogames.
Canis lupus
Member
I don't care about the micro transactions because they only exist in one of the multiplayer modes that I won't be using, it's entirely optional. Don't really care about base building, I didn't buy Base Build Simulator 2015. You act like the main game, the story is infested with micro transactions, it is not. For my multiplayer MGS needs there is MGO which is what everyone will be playing once it's out.
Also gaming is slowly getting better again after reaching a deep point last gen. Games run better, they look better, they install much faster (ps3>ps4). No more RRoD/Ylod. No more brown/gray shooters and 1000 CoD clones. No more tacked on multiplayer. Japan seems to be coming back. There's some shit that carried over like Ubisoft Open World Generator, DLC but DLC doesn't bother me and honestly I haven't noticed them become more prevalent and obtrusive compared to 5 years ago. Mid tier was already gone last gen and if anything they are making a slow come back with bigger budget indies and KS.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Hasn't money always been the only incentive? AFAIK in the 80s and 90s the world still ran on money? These threads feels like tirades romantizing the past like capitalism and companies fucking over people is some new thing. There are bigger gains and a bigger audience, and with that comes more bullshit, but there were a lot lesser games, and lesser high quality games in the past.
When you think about the past your mind forgets all the shovelware, the cash-in sequels and money grab licensed games. You only remember the highlights and the significant ones.
When you think about the past your mind forgets all the shovelware, the cash-in sequels and money grab licensed games. You only remember the highlights and the significant ones.
Yeah money always mattered. But that wasn't the only thing. There was lot's of small studios making games they wanted. Taking risks and experimenting. They gone now and all variety went with it. RTS, stealth, 3d platformers, turnbased games, simulators, twitch shooters, arcade games are gone now. Indie devs are filling this giant hole right now with varying degree of success but it's still there.
As a primary retro gamer right now it's hard to agree with that bolded statement. Plenty of HQ old games out there.
silvermember
Banned
Your complaint seems more like clinging to the past and not accepting change. The reason why RTS, stealth and 3d platformers are gone? Because player interest have changed, which means NO MONEY. It happens all the time, it happened with the car replace the horse. It happen when planes and cars replaced trains for long distance traveling in the U.S
Smaller studios have simply been replaced by indies. so I am not exactly sure why people like you love to make the non-existent distinction between indies and smaller studios of yesteryear.
Yes, there are a lot of HQ retro games out there and you know why? Because the 90s and early 2000s we had A LOT of difference consoles. And the cost of making a game was cheaper. There are a lot of game variations now, but they are on a different type of platform.
tl;dr
In a money based society the lack of interest in those genres means nobody is stupid enough to make those games. There is no real distinction between today's indies and smaller studios.
Gaming is in a great place at the moment. I think a lot of people who complain about the triple A industry don't really look hard enough for games outside of it. I'm fairly picky in what I play, but I'm still absolutely snowed under at the moment with MGS, Crusader Kings II, Football Manager, Decromancer, Sunless Sea, Talos Principle and a couple of others on my list of games I've started and need to play more of. Just look for different and interesting games and you will find them.
Yes, just like it did in 83'
The only problem this time around is mobile technology. If console/PC gaming crashes, it's going to face a steep climb out of the woods when so little effort, and so much profit can be brought in from mobile and casual games.
Tarin02543
Member
Are arcade games still being made?
Yes.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I used to think that way back in the mid-90's. Now I just think of it as the industry changing and evolving into something different. Whether I choose to evolve along with it or not, that's on me. I don't, but thankfully the retro gaming scene is as vibrant as ever. The moral is, nothing can stay the same forever except for possibly your fond memories.
No player interest have not changed. Plenty of kickstarter projects are being financed just because people are starving for this kind of experiences. That's why indie gaming became so popular. The difference between indies and small studios of old is the scope. Small studios had bigger teams of experienced artists and programmers. Indies often consist of 2-5 people trying to make their way into this business. It's the difference between big mall with thousand of workers (big studio), average shop that hires 20 people (small studio of old) and small store runned by one person (indie).
And these "niche" titles don't mean no money, but not enough money to bother for corporate giants. It's a damn shame that nobody wanted to finance Bayonetta 2. It's a damn shame that Shenmue 3 would not exist without kickstarter. It's a damn shame that gamers have to finance games because no one else is willing to take that risk. It says a lot about "state of this industry"... Meanwhile giant studios are releasing unfinished, over ambitious products with empty open worlds and ... eh why I bother
I've had several movies end short because of technical problems. You can't really believe that technical issues are restricted to the video games industry, can you?
Mobile is not a problem. Different audience, mobiles more like a modern version of arcades.
With technology where it is at, it has literally never been cheaper to make quality games.
The problem is AAAAAAA has made sure to turn the market into suicide if you cant match their production values and advertising budget, forcing independents to mostly stick with small scale bite size projects.
With that obstacle removed, Independants can actually start making mid tier games again, and the industry will go back to the CONSUMERS choosing what franchises they think are great, and have those then go on to bigger and better sequels, as opposed to AAAAAAA publishers spending a half a billion dollars telling us that their new game no one has ever played before is actually a AAA franchise with iconic baseball hats and trench coats.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Every time someone says something like this, I vomit in my mouth a little bit.
The number of gamers won't shrink. If you truly believe that mainstream entertainment will ever satisfy enthusiast you are much more positive about media than i am.
Unless gaming becomes a niche activity again AAA games made for enthusiasts first will remain a rarity. Just like it is for movies, books, music ect.
And just for the record. Most mid sized/smaller devs want to maximise profits as well.
Your loss.
There's some incredible arcade-like experiences to be had on mobile.
Many land on my Top 10 GOTY lists of late.
No player interest have not changed. Plenty of kickstarter projects are being financed just because people are starving for this kind of experiences. That's why indie gaming became so popular. The difference between indies and small studios of old is the scope. Small studios had bigger teams of experienced artists and programmers. Indies often consist of 2-5 people trying to make their way into this business. It's the difference between big mall with thousand of workers (big studio), average shop that hires 20 people (small studio of old) and small store runned by one person (indie).
And these "niche" titles don't mean no money, but not enough money to bother for corporate giants. It's a damn shame that nobody wanted to finance Bayonetta 2. It's a damn shame that Shenmue 3 would not exist without kickstarter. It's a damn shame that gamers have to finance games because no one else is willing to take that risk. It says a lot about "state of this industry"... Meanwhile giant studios are releasing unfinished, over ambitious products with empty open worlds and ... eh why I bother
I'm totally miffed by Bayonetta 2's inclusion here. It was financed by Nintendo. So nobody? Last I checked, Nintendo is part of the big 3 (or big 4 if we count Valve's Steam platform). Shenmue 3 using kick starter and Sony's backing is indeed really odd (there has to be other ways to gauge the size of the audience to be worth the investment, isn't thee?).
The biggest thing we've started to learn over the last handful of years is that marketing teams are telling publishers that the market wants "x,y, and z" based on others success - so they stop making certain types of games, such as Horror or anything single player based. Essentially, someone makes something big like GTA V or Call of Duty that go on to have huge audiences, and marketing teams for other companies see this and deem that is what you need to do to be successful. Then, someone will go spend 200 million on an open world game, never come close t making it back, and then run off to mobile to recover.
The reason we have so many shooters is because there are 5 or so really popular ones and everyone wants a slice of that pie rather than realizing that they could make a different type of pizza and make much more money. Indie games have been a proving grounds for this, as have the various Kickstarter backed games that are really close to being AA experiences.
The industry is really healthy. We have more games and more options as gamers than ever before. Big budget AAA games still exist and for the most part are enjoyable for many. AA games are coming back, A games (most indie games) are really healthy. Almost every genre is being served (even if it's not being severed in AAA). If you only play AAA you can think it's in decline and probably have a good argument, but video games are so much more than just big budget experiences.
The bolded is the crux of the problem for a lot of people. For a long time, this wasn't the case when it came to video games. I said it before upthread that like yourself I have come to accept this, but we're still in a transitional period where a lot of people haven't yet moved on to the new reality.
I mostly ignore the AAA segment of the industry because I know that - a few exceptions aside - there's nothing left there for me, just like there's very little left for me in the Michael Bay-style summer blockbuster segment of the film industry, since they're basically the same thing and being marketed toward the same people. I went through that period of my life and I want something better now, which - thankfully - indies and small publishers are providing.
For me Bayonetta 2 just fits. Passionate developer trying to make sequel to well received game. Seems like a good deal right? Nobody expect profits comparable to GTA but in terms of adding value and expanding systems library it's a win win. And out of this big three only Nintendo did it. Surprising everybody. Publisher with severely unsupported system by 3rd party. Publisher that desperately needs to add value to its console library.
I'm not so sure if Nintendo would be as willing to finance bayo 2 if Wii U happened to be massive success.
Yes and no.
Having so many good IP's veer off to mobile gaming (not handheld, MOBILE. <3 handheld) and pachinko machine franchising is disheartening, but the positive IP's, developers and development teams that are still holding strong don't make me worry about it too much. The brilliant developers that stand their ground, or walk away from large AAA corporations (KOOJJIIIMMMMMMAAAA!!) to do their own thing without that sort of shit flinging monkey on their back make me know gaming is simply going through some growing pains, and the best is yet to come.
Having so many good IP's veer off to mobile gaming (not handheld, MOBILE. <3 handheld) and pachinko machine franchising is disheartening, but the positive IP's, developers and development teams that are still holding strong don't make me worry about it too much. The brilliant developers that stand their ground, or walk away from large AAA corporations (KOOJJIIIMMMMMMAAAA!!) to do their own thing without that sort of shit flinging monkey on their back make me know gaming is simply going through some growing pains, and the best is yet to come.
gioGAF
Member
I can relate to what the opening post is saying.
I'm currently playing Elder Scrolls Online and A LOT of shitty things are turning up the more I play. You can clearly see the transition from subscription to their new shitty Fee-2-Play model. It is especially evident in the crafting of items. Before f2p you could find a rare book that would let you craft a certain style, post f2p you find a bunch of rare fragments that can then become the equivalent of the old rare book OR you can buy the whole book from their shitty overpriced Crown Store (Books before their stupid fragmenting idea $15, Books after their stupid fragmenting idea $35 fucking dollars!). Yeah, it is only cosmetic and you can get it in game, but they keep making the acquisition in game more and more ridiculous so they can just sell it to you instead.
Don't even get me started on the Pay 2 Win model they have going for XP potions. You can either find a rare FRAGMENTED recipe and engage in a mind numbing fishing mini game for hours on end to obtain the key ingredient (which I am sure they keep stealth nerfing) OR buy the XP potion from their Crown Store for about $10 (only comes in pack of 5, so it is actually $2 per potion).
Originally, I thought I would support the game since I liked what I was playing by buying expansions and so forth. But after seeing these ridiculous cash grab tactics first hand, I think I will wait for all expansions to be heavily discounted or just not buy any of them and move on to another title asap.
I'm currently playing Elder Scrolls Online and A LOT of shitty things are turning up the more I play. You can clearly see the transition from subscription to their new shitty Fee-2-Play model. It is especially evident in the crafting of items. Before f2p you could find a rare book that would let you craft a certain style, post f2p you find a bunch of rare fragments that can then become the equivalent of the old rare book OR you can buy the whole book from their shitty overpriced Crown Store (Books before their stupid fragmenting idea $15, Books after their stupid fragmenting idea $35 fucking dollars!). Yeah, it is only cosmetic and you can get it in game, but they keep making the acquisition in game more and more ridiculous so they can just sell it to you instead.
Don't even get me started on the Pay 2 Win model they have going for XP potions. You can either find a rare FRAGMENTED recipe and engage in a mind numbing fishing mini game for hours on end to obtain the key ingredient (which I am sure they keep stealth nerfing) OR buy the XP potion from their Crown Store for about $10 (only comes in pack of 5, so it is actually $2 per potion).
Originally, I thought I would support the game since I liked what I was playing by buying expansions and so forth. But after seeing these ridiculous cash grab tactics first hand, I think I will wait for all expansions to be heavily discounted or just not buy any of them and move on to another title asap.
I haven't played the game, but an XP potion (I'm assuming it increases the rate at which you gain XP) isn't really pay-to-win. It's pay-to-not-play, which is an even more damning indictment on any game using it.
Mobiles have nothing on arcades; they're limited by the control scheme and payment schemes inherent to mobile phones.
As long as that monetization and control barrier exists, they'll always be separate entities.
I think the industry is good, its getting bigger and bigger every day. But sadly that progress allso brings junk like showelware, mobile games and "free" to play games.
But the biggest bad thing in the current industry is Konami and their actions this year. If i could double face palm and shake my head i would.
But the biggest bad thing in the current industry is Konami and their actions this year. If i could double face palm and shake my head i would.
To each their own.
Blanket assertions won't change the fact that mobile is the closest thing we've got to the good old days of simple but addictive bite-sized arcade experiences centered around twitch game mechanics.
There's a certain irony to the idea that unsavory monitization schemes are so much different than vintage arcade games that were designed to eat quarters, but putting that aside I'll only suggest that there's a dearth of high-quality arcade experiences on mobile that are of the "pay upfront for the whole game and that's it" variety.
Citing bad controls on mobile also strikes me of an argument that is well past its prime. Virtual sticks and buttons can be bothersome but the best arcade games on mobile do not even attempt this control scheme. Rather they play on the strengths of the platform and create experiences that are fun, intuitive and responsive, with zero degradation of input quality.
I understand that the platform is not for everyone, and that's fine. But the misconceptions surrounding game quality, control, and monetization can be frustrating to read. Mobile has come incredibly far, even in the last few years. There's real "gamer's games" out there than most of us would have swooned for back in the day on our old consoles, and no amount of distasteful, high-profile success stories like Candy Crush of will change that.