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Jimquisition: Deus Ex cost $70M CAD, needs 3 mil to break even, talks pub meddling
- Thread starter SunBroDave
- Start date
Mononoaware
Banned
I wish Jim would always use that version of the opening theme. It's so much better.
This is amazing. And not at all surprising.
The single-player bullshit DLC in Mankind Divided was sprung on Eidos Montreal only two weeks before they had planned to submit the finished game for approval. The order came from the London office.
I appreciate the hell out of these videos, Jim, even if a vocal bunch has already given up the fight.
The single-player bullshit DLC in Mankind Divided was sprung on Eidos Montreal only two weeks before they had planned to submit the finished game for approval. The order came from the London office.
I appreciate the hell out of these videos, Jim, even if a vocal bunch has already given up the fight.
Laurentius
Member
z6kB1
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Mononoaware
Banned
Huh...so Deus Ex was supposed to be a longer game. Not surprising after completing it. It was very unfulfilling, and the ending, while providing closure to the story arc...felt like nothing important really happened.
Laurentius
Member
AEBFk
Last edited:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Seven4sses
Member
They really have no confidence in their products anymore if they're willing to shoehorn stuff two weeks into approval.
Don't watch it. You should just listen.
Mononoaware
Banned
I don't know if it's a lack of confidence. They could have the biggest hit in gaming on their hands with the highest preorders ever, and they still would probably want to add this shit. If there's money to be made, these companies will always take it.
Time to play offline!
Kenzodielocke
Banned
SE London. Why are you so disgusting?
Not surprised at Breach being shoehorned in there, it feels like a F2P game and it's also fucking awful. It felt to me like something put in that didn't need to be there, kinda like the Tomb Raider multiplayer in the TR reboot. I am also not surprised in the least that this fuckery is very likely due to old Eidos management elements within the company.
Laurentius
Member
seF4q
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hodayathink
Member
They're publicly traded companies. That's kind of in the nature of a publicly traded company.
I'm not really surprised at the whole "last minute" BS for those microtransactions to be included. What surprises me the most is the bit about the telemetry being sent and how, assuming it's true, it wasn't discovered by any of those consumers that love to break open games and see what they're hiding in the files.
Outside of the extra last-minute work for developers, if there are going to be microtransactions in games (which isn't going to change anytime soon) I'd prefer them to be something tacked on at the end of development. At least then you have a better chance of playing a game that wasn't designed around trying to reach into your pockets every 5 minutes.
Laurentius
Member
GZHOg
Last edited:
Kenzodielocke
Banned
So much info. That is actually nice.
70 million CAD budget, 3 millions to break even.
70 million CAD budget, 3 millions to break even.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
This is a great video... I really didn't care much for the last one since I thought the microtransactions were rather underwhelming and irrelevant, and not really worth making a big deal about when the game has other production/creative issues.
But this actually sort of explains exactly WHY the game clearly was not balance around promoting microtransactions... lol because they weren't even planned until right before the game went gold?
Wonder how shit like that goes down with Eidos... you work on game design and balance for so long and at the last minute your publisher says at the last minute, 'Oh by the way we want you to basically sell experience levels.' Thankfully Eidos didn't make any last minute 'XP progression' tweaks to promote microtransactions...
If anything I wonder if the almost 'too easy' nature of leveling of in DX MD was an attempt by Eidos to save face and make it clear they weren't just trying to sell Praxis.
But this actually sort of explains exactly WHY the game clearly was not balance around promoting microtransactions... lol because they weren't even planned until right before the game went gold?
Wonder how shit like that goes down with Eidos... you work on game design and balance for so long and at the last minute your publisher says at the last minute, 'Oh by the way we want you to basically sell experience levels.' Thankfully Eidos didn't make any last minute 'XP progression' tweaks to promote microtransactions...
If anything I wonder if the almost 'too easy' nature of leveling of in DX MD was an attempt by Eidos to save face and make it clear they weren't just trying to sell Praxis.
BoosterDuck
Banned
well I paid $36 but I'm not ok with being nickel and dimed for AAA retail games
KimonoNoNo
Member
Eidos was a shit show even before the Square took over.
This story reminds me of WB's handling of the DC movie universe with constant meddling and panicked creative decisions.
Mononoaware
Banned
This game is really not as impressive as I see people comment on. It feels like a carbon copy in terms of design and mechanics of Human Revolution. They may have updated the tech to improve some of the visuals, but it felt like an identical game with a different story (one I didn't like as much either).t The fact that it took over 5 years to make is even more boggling. Much larger and just as detailed games have been made in less time (and ones that perform better)
family_guy
Member
I think there's pressure on their western studios to make as much money as possible because Square Enix Japan keeps burning through money on stuff like Final Fantasy.
So true.
I also imagine there'd be quite a sizeable opportunity cost with not including microtransactions that these companies wouldn't pass up on.
SE Japan has cash from their mobile games. Though it may be that they set unrealistic targets which Eidos then panics over without pushing back, leaving them to manage projects like a headless chicken.
Seven4sses
Member
True, but aside from the microtransactions, they felt the story would get too stale. That's why they added the breach mode. They might be trying to make money any way they can, but this just shows they don't feel the game is engaging enough to warrant the price and the time to play it from start to finish.
I would say they need to go through with their risks, but that's how they got to where they are now.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Didn't they do the same shit for Sleeping Dogs?
Unrealistic expectations, inane marketing where they get celebrities like Emma Stone that probably spent more man hours marketing the game than actually voice acting an insignificant side character.
Then despite Sleeping Dogs being a wicked game with pretty respectable sales and scores, and a clear cult following afterwards, Square Enix says it's a failure... and forces them to 'milk' the Sleeping Dogs engine with a smartphone esque Mafia Wars/Clash of Clans wannabe Triad Wars -- which then also basically bombs mid-development and loses them even more money. And probably destroys morale/loyalty at one of their best up and coming dev partners.
For a publisher that has surprisingly become more likely to produce a game about a crime shootout with Chinese gangsters (Kane & Lynch 2, Sleeping Dogs, Hitman AB, Deus Ex HR than actually black mages on chocobos seeking crystals.... and lucked out by a lot of these being sleeper or surprise hits, cult classics, and in general just solid IPs that have genuine potential going forward...
Square Enix sure seems to try awfully hard to squander their good will instead of just counting their blessings and using these are opportunities to develop genuine and loyal franchise fanbases.
exmachina64
Banned
Human Revolution came out five years ago and has been on sale many times at this point. You should compare sales at launch rather than lifetime sales.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Jim comments on how he's surprised that SE has put out so many high quality games over the last few years despite its interference, but I think the answer to how this is possible is also something he mentioned in passing earlier - this game took 5 years to develop, and SE is famous for having very high sales targets. Despite the publishing wing interfering in several aspects, I do get the feeling that they're ok with giving the teams enough time to make the games, it doesn't rush them into 2 year cycles to maximize profits. The microtransaction obsession feels like the flip side of the same coin - trying to maximize profits in this alternative way partially because they're spending so much time and money on them to begin with.
It shows what they know. Nobody buying this game is remotely interested in Breach mode. It isn't something people buy a Deus Ex game for.
Hearing this just keeps making me feel like it's odd a company like Square Enix would continue to publish a game franchise like Deus Ex, which is built primarily on singleplayer gameplay, in today's AAA market. That's despite how much energy SE still devotes to Final Fantasy which mainly remains a singleplayer game. I guess the existence of FFXIV and all the mobile FF games allows mainline SP FF to do its own thing. In the west though, Bethesda is the only company I see publishing anything similar to Deus Ex. The comparisons to Dishonored 2 are going to be interesting once that lands.
Something something Tomb Raider and Core Design.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Well, this just makes me incredibly sad for the dev team. I've seen how much passion they have for the original game and how good their intentions are, but in this case they seem to have been hamstrung by the publisher in so many steps of the way. What a shame.
Ps. Shoutout to the game director for wearing a Razor - Evil Invaders shirt <3
Ps. Shoutout to the game director for wearing a Razor - Evil Invaders shirt <3
exmachina64
Banned
As Jim points out, the eastern and western divisions are largely run as separate companies.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
That was CD, not SE.
That was a great watch, really informative - and explains a lot.
I was looking forward to this so much. This was right at the top of my most anticipated list for years, even before it was announced; I couldn't wait for word on a sequel to Human Revolution.
I really loved aspects of the game that Mankind Divided turned out to be but being completely honest regarding the game and not buying blindly into the hype I had for it, it was a really frustrating game. I loved the world, the art design, the music, the side missions and the stories contained within those, the main narrative left a lot to be desired though and it's abrupt 'conclusion' only dragged it down even further - to the point it really hurt the overall experience.
..and Breach mode... as that anonymous contact of Jim's put it, don't get me started.
I was looking forward to this so much. This was right at the top of my most anticipated list for years, even before it was announced; I couldn't wait for word on a sequel to Human Revolution.
I really loved aspects of the game that Mankind Divided turned out to be but being completely honest regarding the game and not buying blindly into the hype I had for it, it was a really frustrating game. I loved the world, the art design, the music, the side missions and the stories contained within those, the main narrative left a lot to be desired though and it's abrupt 'conclusion' only dragged it down even further - to the point it really hurt the overall experience.
..and Breach mode... as that anonymous contact of Jim's put it, don't get me started.
They build their engine for the game at the same time as they were building game itself. That really slows down your production cycles as engine and tools keep evolving because they didn't exist month ago.