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Majora · May 16, 2010

A few people in the Alan Wake thread have asked for this. Given the game isn't out in America yet it seems best to separate discussion of the plot here rather than make everyone from the US wade through pages of spoilered posts. I think it's fair to say the story gets a bit confusing near the end and there are lots of different theories going around. So share them here.

Me personally? I'm not sure. I have ideas but I'd want to read The Alan Wake Files and play through the game on Nightmare before I start trying to really form anything.

whatevermort · May 16, 2010

Just finished the game. The story was muddier than I would have liked in the end, but here's what I got from it. Clearly, none of this is spoiler tagged.

Tom Zane was a writer in the 70s who moved to Bright Falls with his wife. His wife, his muse, cheated on him, and he succumbed to the darkness that was present in Bright Falls. When it tried to write itself free, using the form of his wife as a mouthpiece, he realised, and tried to destroy the darkness, or at least suppress it. When he worked out that the darkness made what he wrote manifest itself with form, bending reality, he decided to write himself out of history, with the exception of his shoebox and clicker. In his place, he wrote the young Alan Wake, a boy who grew up with Tom Zane's stories filling his life, taking the place of an actual reality. Alan met Alice, wrote books - presumably based on those Tom Zane had ideas for - and then, one day, ran out of the pre-created ideas that Tom Zane had written for the character. The writer's block was, essentially, Alan reaching the end of what Tom Zane had created for him.

So, the Wakes take a holiday in Bright Falls, and, as happens, history repeats itself. Alan is lured into a trap by Dr Hartman - who wants Alan in his clinic to further his career, to push his own profile and sell some books - but this only serves to confuse the matter of what is real and what isn't. Alan swiftly realises that the only way to fix what's happened - in that, he had accidentally and unintentionally begun to set the darkness free - is to rewrite it again. Not having a mind for plotting - as his ideas are gone - the best Alan can create is a facsimile of himself, the Mr Scratchy character, but he can free Alice. He writes Bright Falls into what he thinks it should be, an idyllic town where DeerFest happens, Tor and Odin dance around, and everybody knows everybody else. Alice is alive, and Alan writes that he died diving in to save her.

FIN.

Peff · May 16, 2010

The LE commentary may also be helpful to know where they wanted the story to go (whether Alan is real or not, although everything else... Bright Falls/The Alan Wake Files/the early commentary seem to indicate he is indeed a real person). My one problem right now is why Thomas Zane wrote that page about the Clicker and Alan Wake, which would point to Alan being Tom's creation. Maybe that's what is written in the books he kept in the shoe box as a safety measure?

derFeef · May 16, 2010

Pretty good explanation/theory there. It is somehow hard to accept that Alan is just fictional.

whatevermort · May 16, 2010

derFeef said:
Pretty good explanation/theory there. It is somehow hard to accept that Alan is just fictional.

I don't think he's fictional; I think he was written into reality. It explains why he's such a stereotype, as well. (This also explains other characters - Barry, for example - who are stereotypes, and also why Alan is famous when he's such a terrible writer. He's famous because Tom Zane wrote that he was famous; end of story.)

LordPhoque · May 16, 2010

What about Alan possible alcoholism ?

painey · May 16, 2010

I enjoyed the story much more when Alan Wake looking for his kidnapped wife, and then it turned into a some contrived bullshit that Alan was writing everything in "the real world" as an excuse to explain flying oil drums and flashlights and coffee thermoses left in outhouses.

derFeef · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
I don't think he's fictional; I think he was written into reality. It explains why he's such a stereotype, as well. (This also explains other characters - Barry, for example - who are stereotypes, and also why Alan is famous when he's such a terrible writer. He's famous because Tom Zane wrote that he was famous; end of story.)

That´s what I meant, actually. You just exist because someone want you to exist, it makes the whole character a bit weird if you think it through. Even more so if you gonna play it a second time.

whatevermort · May 16, 2010

LordPhoque said:
What about Alan possible alcoholism ?

That's just the stereotype that he was written into by Tom Zane (who also was a shitty writer). Nearly every character is a stereotype, actually, which either gives credence to a 'everybody was created by Zane' theory, or... well, or they're just stereotypes.

Majora · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
He writes Bright Falls into what he thinks it should be, an idyllic town where DeerFest happens, Tor and Odin dance around, and everybody knows everybody else. Alice is alive, and Alan writes that he died diving in to save her.

FIN.

So why does he write it that the FBI guy is stood creepily in the darkness and Rose is stood clutching a lantern if he wants it to write it to be an idyllic town?

Also what significance does the Ocean line have? I know the light mentions the Ocean in Alan's nightmare right at the beginning but it seems like it's meant to have some significance at the end that is being lost at the moment.

Interesting theory but I'm not sure if I swallow all of it. There are just too many things confusing me about it right now. Why would Zane choose to write himself out of history? How does that help? At the end of Chapter 6 who conjured up the cabin, Alan or Zane?

Peff · May 16, 2010

Majora said:
Also what significance does the Ocean line have? I know the light mentions the Ocean in Alan's nightmare right at the beginning but it seems like it's meant to have some significance at the end that is being lost at the moment.

Probably that there's a part of the lake that goes through the island and into the outside world. The lake is mentioned to be very deep several times. Either that or it's some kind of metaphor :lol

Why would Zane choose to write himself out of history? How does that help?

He says he has to in order to make the Dark Pressence disappear, since if there's any part of the story that remains, it won't be gone, so he drowns. He specifically chooses to keep some of his books inside a shoe box though.

At the end of Chapter 6 who conjured up the cabin, Alan or Zane?

Alan, most likely.

There's a spam of a week between the time that Tom brings Barbara back and when they both disappear and the island is destroyed. It could be that Alan is actually their son and Tom gave him up before writing the tidbit about the Clicker and then dying, but I think this would be big enough to be mentioned somewhere.

Majora · May 16, 2010

Could the 'it's not a lake, it's an ocean' line be referring to the source of the darkness. As far as I can remember the darkness itself seems to be situated in Cauldron Lake, so he is saying that the darkness actually runs much deeper and wider than that, in essence setting up a sequel?

LordPhoque · May 16, 2010

That's an interesting theory, especially the part about the stereotypes which is true.

Another I found on the official board :

Zane lost his wife. She, unlike Alice, actually died. The darkness took advantage of this and told Zane that he could bring her back by writing her into existence. Alan explains that this is not possible. The story must flow properly, characters need to be true to their character, balance must be maintained, etc. Zane broke the rules by trying to write himself and his wife into a "happily ever after" existence. The darkness used his vulnerability and took over (as editor) his story. By the time he realized it, it was too late. The Barbara that he brought back was heartless and only darkness existed where her heart was. We're not told how he knew about Alan or how he able to write his clicker memory. We're also not told how there could be a second clicker in existence, as Alan gave his clicker to Alice. Since Tom eventually managed to escape the darkness, the darkness needed a new writer to complete its story and write it into existence. This is where Alan comes in. The darkness needed a way to manipulate Alan into writing a manuscript that it could edit and use to take control of everything. It uses Alice as a hostage. Alice is not actually dead, but being held captive by the darkness. Alan, however, is not originally aware of this. When he finally regains his memory, he realizes that it was the darkness that told him Alice had drowned and that he could use his manuscript to change what happened. Since Alan never finished his manuscript, he now realizes that he can still prevent the story from ending as a horror where everyone dies. He has the darkness release Alice, but he remains imprisoned in the cabin to finish the story. He realizes that there is a lot of work to be done, but he now realizes what he has to do to stop the darkness (of which we're not really told). Mr. Scratch looks to be the person that will be interacting with people in the real world as Alan finishes his story. In other words, Alan will be writing about himself in his story. Mr. Scratch is the self that will be acting out what Alan writes.

I think he nailed it. It's very close to what we've been told in the game actually.

Peff · May 16, 2010

Yeah, that's what I thought when I finished the game but the links between Zane and Alan threw me off. It's consistent with everything else though, so hopefully they'll explain that part in the DLC.

Also, the lyrics of The Poet and The Muse pretty much explain what happens in 1970 and that both Barbara Jagger and Thomas Zane are still in the island (Maybe he too can get other people to write stuff?).

There's an old tale wrought with mystery of Tom the Poet and his muse
And a magic lake which gave a life to the words the poet used
Now, the muse she was his happiness, and he rhymed about her grace
And told her stories of treasures deep beneath the blackened waves
'Til in the stillness of one dawn, still in its misty crown
The muse she went down to the lake, and in the waves she drowned

And now to see your love set free
You will need the witch's cabin key
Find the lady of the light, gone mad with the night
That's how you reshape destiny

The poet came down to the lake to call out to his dear
When there was no answer he was overcome with fear
He searched in vain for his treasure lost and too soon the night would fall
Only his own echo would wail back at his call
And when he swore to bring back his love by stories he'd create
Nightmares shifted in their sleep in the darkness of the lake

And now to see your love set free
You will need the witch's cabin key
Find the lady of the light, still raving in the night
That's how you reshape destiny

In the dead of night she came to him with darkness in her eyes
Wearing a mourning gown, sweet words as her disguise
He took her in without a word for he saw his grave mistake
And vowed them both to silence deep beneath the lake
Now, if it's real or just a dream one mystery remains
For it is said, on moonless nights they may still haunt this place

And now to see your love set free
You will need the witch's cabin key
Find the lady of the light, gone mad with the night
That's how you reshape destiny

whatevermort · May 16, 2010

Where do people see the DLC going, incidentally? Because I'm assuming Alan is done in terms of interacting with the world. Reckon we could see stuff with Alice as the PC?

GazzaScotland · May 16, 2010

One thing I noticed as when you first explore the cabin the calendar is July 1970 I think? This confused me a bit, but started to fall into place as the game went on.

Majora · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
Where do people see the DLC going, incidentally? Because I'm assuming Alan is done in terms of interacting with the world. Reckon we could see stuff with Alice as the PC?

Well I doubt they would make a sequel without Alan as the main character. Or are you talking specifically about the DLC? Isn't Mr Scratch basically a way for Remedy to get around this issue? After all, Zane says something like 'he will be taking your place now'

derFeef · May 16, 2010

It´s still confuzzling what was real and what not. It produces some kind of loophole in my brain. If I get it right there are 3 layers of reality.

The Darkness that posesses the Lake
Zane who writes Alan, and pretty much every character into existence with the help of the Darkness.
Alan who let the story Zane wrote come true.

Do I get it? :lol

AndyMoogle · May 16, 2010

Majora said:
Could the 'it's not a lake, it's an ocean' line be referring to the source of the darkness. As far as I can remember the darkness itself seems to be situated in Cauldron Lake, so he is saying that the darkness actually runs much deeper and wider than that, in essence setting up a sequel?

That's pretty much what I thought. The darkness is not confined to that small area, it's vast as the ocean.

EDIT: Alan Wake was under the influence of the darkness at the end right? So that could mean that the darkness is basically making him write that it's growing, rather than him just coming to the conclusion that it's already big. Meaning that the darkness will be much more powerful in the potential sequel.

metareferential · May 16, 2010

The more I understand the story and its intricacies, the more I love the game.

There are various narrative plans that the reader/player needs to deal with in order to get the whole picture.

The metaliterary game that is thus generated is simply great, although it can be confusing at times.

BrassMonkey1010 · May 16, 2010

Does the dark presence remind any of you of the smoke monster in Lost?

JimmyRustler · May 16, 2010

Copy & Paste from the other thread so we can continue the discussion here:

conman said:
I think this is the heart of the story. It could be that the difference between Tom and Alan is their relationships to their wives. Alan seems to be the fictional character, while Tom is the writer. Tom is exorcising his own demons about writing and about his wife leaving/drowning by writing a story about a writer (Alan Wake) whose wife leaves/dies. I need to play through the game again, though, to figure out all the nuances and details about the other characters like Rose, the federal agent, etc.

I wouldn't read so much into the whole Thomas Zane thing because I strongly assume that it is all made up from Alan for his story. Just check out the first TV-flashback when Alan gets up in Rose's trailer. In the TV-flash he speaks about that the old woman is kind of his editor and telling him what to write. What he also says at this point is "I call her Barbara Jagger." and I think this is quite important because he does not say "Her name is Barbara Jagger."
With this in mind I think it's certain that Alan made up the whole love story between Jagger and Zane for his own, perfect story - and this would blur everything we are told about Thomas Zane.

Peff · May 16, 2010

BrassMonkey1010 said:
Does the dark presence remind any of you of the smoke monster in Lost?

They've cited Lost as one of their biggest influences for the episodic format several times, so it's most likely the main reason it's in the game

The LE bonus disc is really, really cool, by the way. It has a few making of videos with Sam Lake and the team explaining a bit of the work behind the story and the rest of the game, most of the cutscenes with storyboards at the same time, every single trailer and official screenshot of the project (even from 2005)... and the commentary is nice so far but it's hard to understand what they're saying sometimes :lol Best CE this gen, I'd say.

conman · May 16, 2010

Posted this over in the main thread, but then learned that this thread is going, so here it is without spoiler tags:

Peff said:
The problem with the story is that at the end (I guess this'll be clear in the DLC, especially the second episode) it's not really clear whether Alan is just a writer (Tom?) who is writing the events of the game because Alice left him for being such a mess or if he really is there in the island and writes himself into the story, disappearing at the end.

I think this is the heart of the story. It could be that the difference between Tom and Alan is their relationships to their wives. Alan seems to be the fictional character, while Tom is the writer. Tom is exorcising his own demons about writing and about his wife leaving/drowning by writing a story about a writer (Alan Wake) whose wife leaves/dies. I need to play through the game again, though, to figure out all the nuances and details about the other characters like Rose, the federal agent, etc.

Regardless of all the details, it's safe to say that the story is "about" something very specific: the creative (writing) process. For example: the Taken are fictional characters--hence their "inky" appearance. The rest of the cast are all manifestations of the writing process (Tom's wife/widow the Editor, Alan's wife the Muse, Barry the agent, Alan the writer, etc).

The Dark Presence is a manifestation of all of those ideas in the writing process that seem to come from "elsewhere" (sometimes called "inspiration"). In classical literature, the source of inspiration is frequently referred to as a "well" or "spring" (here, it's a "lake" or "ocean"). The play of light and dark is all about the creative struggle between conscious creativity and unconscious creativity. The scary thing to many writers about unconscious (as opposed to conscious) creativity is that it's unreliable and unpredictable; it can dry up without warning (as in writer's block) or come pouring out all at once (what James Joyce called epiphany).

Speaking of James Joyce, no one's picked up on the title resembling Joyce's novel Finnegans Wake. That's a novel that's also all about the creative process, and it all takes place while the main character is sleeping. It's a novel all about the creations of the unconscious mind. And it, too, plays out the main character's familial anxieties and ties them to his creative anxieties--very much like Alan Wake.

conman · May 16, 2010

TheExorzist said:
I wouldn't read so much into the whole Thomas Zane thing because I strongly assume that it is all made up from Alan for his story. Just check out the first TV-flashback when Alan gets up in Rose's trailer. In the TV-flash he speaks about that the old woman is kind of his editor and telling him what to write. What he also says at this point is "I call her Barbara Jagger." and I think this is quite important because he does not say "Her name is Barbara Jagger."
With this in mind I think it's certain that Alan made up the whole love story between Jagger and Zane for his own, perfect story - and this would blur everything we are told about Thomas Zane.

This gets us into something I'd suggested earlier in the main thread: that this story is layered like a Russian doll. Alan is writing Tom who is writing Alan who is writing Tom who is... You get the idea. In literary and film theory, they call this "mise-en-abyme" (the experience you get when you stand between two mirrors).

Many other characters in the game are similarly doubled: Alice and Barbara, Rose and the lantern lady, the sheriff and the fed, etc. One is in Alan's world, the other comes from Tom's. This "mise-en-abyme" is the real trap that the Dark Presence uses to possess people. Everyone fits into a particular "type" (or stereotype), hence each person has a counterpart in the parallel fiction.

It's also pointless to try to distinguish between the "real" and "fictional" worlds. Part of the point seems to be that it's all potentially fictional and all potentially real at the same time (think of the Night Springs episode "Quantum Suicide," and you get the idea). It's a sort of Schroedinger's Cat situation.

gamemadmax · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
I don't think he's fictional; I think he was written into reality. It explains why he's such a stereotype, as well. (This also explains other characters - Barry, for example - who are stereotypes, and also why Alan is famous when he's such a terrible writer. He's famous because Tom Zane wrote that he was famous; end of story.)

oh...so the game is inspired by Stranger Than Fiction

conman · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
(This also explains other characters - Barry, for example - who are stereotypes, and also why Alan is famous when he's such a terrible writer. He's famous because Tom Zane wrote that he was famous; end of story.)

Right, because terrible writers are never successful or famous...

derFeef · May 16, 2010

conman said:
This gets us into something I'd suggested earlier in the main thread: that this story is layered like a Russian doll. Alan is writing Tom who is writing Alan who is writing Tom who is... You get the idea. In literary and film theory, they call this "mise-en-abyme" (the experience you get when you stand between two mirrors).

Many other characters in the game are similarly doubled: Alice and Barbara, Rose and the lantern lady, the sheriff and the fed, etc. One is in Alan's world, the other comes from Tom's. This "mise-en-abyme" is the real trap that the Dark Presence uses to possess people. Everyone fits into a particular "type" (or stereotype), hence each person has a counterpart in the parallel fiction.

It's also pointless to try to distinguish between the "real" and "fictional" worlds. Part of the point seems to be that it's all potentially fictional and all potentially real at the same time (think of the Night Springs episode "Quantum Suicide," and you get the idea). It's a sort of Schroedinger's Cat situation.

Yeah, I am thinking all the time what is real and what is fictional. The only thing that brakes your pointed out rule is the relationship between Zane, Mr. Scratchy and Alan. Mr Scratchy got thrown in at the last minute and this is what confuses me the most. Who is he.

whatevermort · May 16, 2010

conman said:
Right, because terrible writers are never successful or famous...

Well, I did think it was pointed when the FBI chap called him 'Dan Brown'... But I think he's meant to be really good. His wife says he's amazing, and people who it is suggested have taste (DJ Maine, for example) think the same. Which means that either there's a disconnect between the quality of the writing and the intended quality of the writing - and I don't actually agree that the writing standard is consistently higher than it is in the manuscript pages, for what it's worth - or it was intentional and subtle. The manuscript pages are so bad that there is no way they would be published. It just wouldn't happen.

JimmyRustler · May 16, 2010

conman said:
This gets us into something I'd suggested earlier in the main thread: that this story is layered like a Russian doll. Alan is writing Tom who is writing Alan who is writing Tom who is... You get the idea. In literary and film theory, they call this "mise-en-abyme" (the experience you get when you stand between two mirrors).

Many other characters in the game are similarly doubled: Alice and Barbara, Rose and the lantern lady, the sheriff and the fed, etc. One is in Alan's world, the other comes from Tom's. This "mise-en-abyme" is the real trap that the Dark Presence uses to possess people. Everyone fits into a particular "type" (or stereotype), hence each person has a counterpart in the parallel fiction.

It's also pointless to try to distinguish between the "real" and "fictional" worlds. Part of the point seems to be that it's all potentially fictional and all potentially real at the same time (think of the Night Springs episode "Quantum Suicide," and you get the idea). It's a sort of Schroedinger's Cat situation.

Sounds logical.... sort of anyway.

I really have to replay the game one more time. Will try to make out the point where I'm not playing the story Alan wrote but the part he did not write. Think it is imperative to know this tunring point because to discuss anything that happens in Alan's story (what people say and what they do) is pointless because I assume he just made everything up. I mean, how could he knew so much stuff of Brightness Falls when he was only in the cabin the whole week? Also, why do all people he meets (or hears from them) before the time cut seem to play a more or less important role later in the game? I don't think this is a coinsidence.

It's crazy. When I finished the game I was a bit disappointed, the more I thought about it I started to really like it and now I kind of start to love it. :lol

randomwab · May 16, 2010

Has anyone been able to figure out why Nightingale was so scared of Wake? I've completed the game twice now, and I've read about half of The Alan Wake Files and I still don't think I've seen a specific reason. It was hinted that he knew more than he was letting on, do we know what?

JimmyRustler · May 16, 2010

randomwab said:
Has anyone been able to figure out why Nightingale was so scared of Wake? I've completed the game twice now, and I've read about half of The Alan Wake Files and I still don't think I've seen a specific reason. It was hinted that he knew more than he was letting on, do we know what?

I'd still say that Nightingale only exists because Alan wrote him as a counterpart for Breaker. After all he is defenitly only a part of the story Alan wrote.

Peff · May 16, 2010

randomwab said:
Has anyone been able to figure out why Nightingale was so scared of Wake? I've completed the game twice now, and I've read about half of The Alan Wake Files and I still don't think I've seen a specific reason. It was hinted that he knew more than he was letting on, do we know what?

I think it was probably a combination of him being drunk a lot of the time, seeing the Dark Pressence in action during the police chase and then reading the manuscript and realizing it was all coming true.

How many people actually call Alan "Tom" at some point in the game? Alice does right at the end, and the Anderson brothers do both in the diner and in the clinic. Then again, IIRC the beverage they used to drink used water from Cauldron Lake, so maybe they were influenced by Barbara Jagger/the Dark Pressence into calling him like his old husband?

EDIT: ^If we listen to The Alan Wake Files, Nightingale seems to be a real person, though. But who knows...

bestami · May 16, 2010

I assumed rose became the new lightkeeper and fbi guy became the dark pressence when i saw the cutscene. I felt like they left some parts out for the DLC. Way too much room for speculation in my opinion.

derFeef · May 16, 2010

bestami said:
I assumed rose became the new lightkeeper and fbi guy became the dark pressence when i saw the cutscene. I felt like they left some parts out for the DLC. Way too much room for speculation in my opinion.

Yeah, Alan must keep the balance last of all. But I wonder where Mr. Scratchy is.

Peff · May 16, 2010

derFeef said:
Yeah, Alan must keep the balance last of all. But I wonder where Mr. Scratchy is.

The Alan Wake Files mentions in the epilogue that Clay Stewards actually sees someone identical to Alan Wake with a huge smile in Elderwood, but he vanishes before Clay can reach him. Sounds like Mr. Scratchy to me!

EDIT: The book also mentions that a year before the game, Finny, Nightingale's partner, died, and he suffered a crisis that pushed him into alcohol and drugs, and then he left for Bright Falls.

Diamond · May 16, 2010

Interesting theories here.

In the first scene of chapter 5, Breaker asks Nightingale about his superiors and he kind of dodges the question. So it isn't even sure he is a real FBI agent (or else he doesn't know because he's a fictional character

). I think he's going to have a role in the sequel, he is not in the last scene for no reason.

derFeef · May 16, 2010

Peff said:
The Alan Wake Files mentions in the epilogue that Clay Stewards actually sees someone identical to Alan Wake with a huge smile in Elderwood, but he vanishes before Clay can reach him. Sounds like Mr. Scratchy to me!

Sounds like him, but what´s his purpose.

edit: wow, this sounds like a discussoin about a Lynch movie. Remedy, you did well :lol

Mr Solo Dolo · May 16, 2010

Diamond_4444 said:
Interesting theories here.

In the first scene of chapter 5, Breaker asks Nightingale about his superiors and he kind of dodges the question. So it isn't even sure he is a real FBI agent (or else he doesn't know because he's a fictional character ). I think he's going to have a role in the sequel, he is not in the last scene for no reason.

He was dismissed from the FBI.

Majora · May 16, 2010

Quoted directly from The Alan Wake Files about Agent Nightingale:

'...he had been investigating the small town for some time. Whether it was persistant and recurring dreams that led him to the town, as they did myself, or whether his research was part of a more formal investigation by the FBI, I have only hints and suppositions.

...Nightingale was a meticulous researcher, a man desperate to uncover the dark secret of the town, a secret he feared was about to metastasize, a secret inextricably tied to Alan Wake.'

Sounds to me like he knew a lot about the history of the town and when he found out Alan Wake was there he feared what could be unleashed.

I don't know if I buy that Zane was fictional by the way and invented by Alan, as thatconflicts with the lantern lady's history, a very real person.

Plasma · May 16, 2010

If you go into Nightingale's motel room there are a ton of surveillance pictures all over the bed which shows his been keeping tabs on everyone.

conman · May 16, 2010

whatevermort said:
Well, I did think it was pointed when the FBI chap called him 'Dan Brown'... But I think he's meant to be really good. His wife says he's amazing, and people who it is suggested have taste (DJ Maine, for example) think the same. Which means that either there's a disconnect between the quality of the writing and the intended quality of the writing - and I don't actually agree that the writing standard is consistently higher than it is in the manuscript pages, for what it's worth - or it was intentional and subtle. The manuscript pages are so bad that there is no way they would be published. It just wouldn't happen.

It's impossible to tell the difference between what was "intended" to sound like bad writing and what is genuinely bad writing, but again I think that's part of the point (hard to distinguish between "real" and "fictional" worlds). Remedy is attempting to channel the genre rather than do good writing. Their success lies in how well they impersonate the style, not in how good it is for its own sake.

And there's plenty of god-awful writing that is published and that sells in unbelievable numbers. Dan Brown is just the most recent and prominent example. And there are plenty of intelligent people I know who love The Da Vinci Code. I couldn't get past the first 50 pages because the writing was sooooo painfully bad. Alan Wake is one of those guys (if the writing style didn't make that clear, the interview appearance makes it absolutely evident).

derFeef · May 16, 2010

Exactly. That is why I love remedy, or Sam Lake´s writing. They make such great characters with so many layers, they feel real.

AndyMoogle · May 17, 2010

whatevermort said:
Well, I did think it was pointed when the FBI chap called him 'Dan Brown'... But I think he's meant to be really good. His wife says he's amazing, and people who it is suggested have taste (DJ Maine, for example) think the same. Which means that either there's a disconnect between the quality of the writing and the intended quality of the writing - and I don't actually agree that the writing standard is consistently higher than it is in the manuscript pages, for what it's worth - or it was intentional and subtle. The manuscript pages are so bad that there is no way they would be published. It just wouldn't happen.

Nightingale says a different writer's name each time. I've heard him shout both Stephen King and HP Lovecraft.

supermackem · May 17, 2010

Anyone think gamewise it fell apart abit near the end, the little bridge bit and then the last boss screamed unfinished to me. I liked the gameplay and the paceing to that point the end boss was all kinds of fail imho. I was enjoying the game and played it non stop over the weekend then it just seemed to start to fall apart abit. The story was good the voice acting and charcters were great and the setting was spot on, i think and i cant believe im going to say this given how long it took to come out but it couldve done with a bit more time to really nail the end 3rd of the game.

conman · May 17, 2010

supermackem said:
Anyone think gamewise it fell apart abit near the end, the little bridge bit and then the last boss screamed unfinished to me. I liked the gameplay and the paceing to that point the end boss was all kinds of fail imho. I was enjoying the game and played it non stop over the weekend then it just seemed to start to fall apart abit. The story was good the voice acting and charcters were great and the setting was spot on, i think and i cant believe im going to say this given how long it took to come out but it couldve done with a bit more time to really nail the end 3rd of the game.

Yup. Pretty much.

derFeef · May 17, 2010

supermackem said:
Anyone think gamewise it fell apart abit near the end, the little bridge bit and then the last boss screamed unfinished to me. I liked the gameplay and the paceing to that point the end boss was all kinds of fail imho. I was enjoying the game and played it non stop over the weekend then it just seemed to start to fall apart abit. The story was good the voice acting and charcters were great and the setting was spot on, i think and i cant believe im going to say this given how long it took to come out but it couldve done with a bit more time to really nail the end 3rd of the game.

Indeed. I felt like that there was too much pushed to the end. Too much stuff revealed at the last episode as well, it totally would have benefit from another episode.

conman · May 17, 2010

derFeef said:
Indeed. I felt like that there was too much pushed to the end. Too much stuff revealed at the last episode as well, it totally would have benefit from another episode.

And, dare I say it, a bit more time in development? :lol

It's really too bad because the plot is so great up until that point. It's not that what's revealed is bad; it's just that it doesn't have the time to develop properly.

Mad_Ban · May 17, 2010

Edit: I am noob, wrong AW thread. D:

AndyMoogle · May 17, 2010

If you look at the gameplay trailer from 2009 on the CE bonus disc, you see that they've changed the game quite a bit since then too. They completely changed the way Alan reads the manuscript pages, the HUD is different, and almost everything that happens during that video doesn't happen in the full game. Some things are similar, such as the level design, but other stuff have been completely scrapped/changed. Would be interesting to see how much of the rest of the game they've changed since last year.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems that the facial animations are better in that video as well. Perhaps they had finished facial animations back then, but decided that they didn't like much of the game so they changed it again, meaning they didn't have time/money to make new facial animations for what they've changed. Could be why the facial animations are suddenly better towards the end of the game as well.

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