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BertramCooper · Jun 17, 2010

Tathanen said:
Serious question: why can't you just hold the remote in your left hand. What functionality in the game here falls apart if you just switch hands. Thinking about the motions in this game... I have got to be missing something here. It seems to me like they'd all work regardless of which hand you have the Remote in. It's not like the remote knows which side the Nunchuck is on.

As I said earlier, we've already seen a vid showing a southpaw playing the game with the Wiimote in his left hand, experiencing no difficulty whatsoever.

I can't remember exactly where the vid was from, but it got posted somewhere in the main SS thread.

Boney · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
Dragona couldn't play TP either and said it was unplayable.

Well you can't expect everybody to be good with their non dominant hand, even if it's really simple.

I don't see the problem with mirroring the whole game.. disc data?

EmCeeGramr · Jun 17, 2010

lyre said:
Congradulations to everyone who can play several minutes of TP left-handed; you can adapt. You're normal and friggin' happy. Now you can all go tell the guy with no feet to pull up his socks.

are you really comparing hand dominance to being an amputee

lyre · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
are you really comparing hand dominance to being an amputee

Yes, because not being able to adapt IS a handicap. Or are you going to tell the guy who has severe dyslexia to just try harder to learn how to read? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not significant.

Plywood · Jun 17, 2010

Boney said:
What percentage of the population is a lefty?

I did some digging around just now and I found a nice amount of sites saying it was 10% of the population or 1 out every 10 people on average is left-handed. Also anecdotal but my sister is left handed and I'm from a family of 5.

Jin34 · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
Depressed more like. This game is going for extreme precision in motion controls, and I'm not going to be able to enjoy playing it.

This will be the first Zelda game I won't buy, and can't play.

Just think, if Nintendo had a proper online system you could just buy the "lefty mode" DLC for $10.

markot · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
are you really comparing hand dominance to being an amputee

Not to mention, prosthetic legs and feet >.<! they do pull their socks up!

EmCeeGramr · Jun 17, 2010

lyre said:
Yes, because not being able to adapt IS a handicap. Or are you going to tell the guy who has dyslexia to just try harder to learn how to read?

Adapt to what? What am I adapting to? Both are the same task: pushing buttons and shaking the wrist (not the hand and fingers).

comedy bomb · Jun 17, 2010

Plywood said:
I did some digging around just now and I found a nice amount of sites saying it was 10% of the population or 1 out every 10 people on average is left-handed.

But how many play video games, and more importantly, Zelda?

SupraDarky · Jun 17, 2010

The game (the demo at least) is absolutely playable holding the wiimote in the left hand, I can confirm that!

Tathanen · Jun 17, 2010

lyre said:
Yes, because not being able to adapt IS a handicap. Or are you going to tell the guy who has severe dyslexia to just try harder to learn how to read? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not significant.

I'm sorry, has this always been a discussion about ability to adapt? I thought it was one about simply not supporting left-handedness. If we're doing this, let's chastise the game for not having explicit voiced audio cues for all on-screen actions so blind people can play it. I think they're probably a larger demographic than "left-handed people who can't handle holding the remote in their left hand because link holding it in his right hand looks weird."

Dragona Akehi · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
Adapt to what? What am I adapting to? Both are the same task: pushing buttons and shaking the wrist (not the hand and fingers).

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt. That's the equivalent of precision Zelda Wii looks like it's going to involve.

Amir0x · Jun 17, 2010

I'm not left handed but with the move to motion controls, the necessity to have left hand modes increases exponentially. It is not fair for left handed gamers to be penalized for something beyond their control.

I know it is incredibly difficult for me to be anywhere near as proficient with my left hand as my right. I imagine it's similar for a lot of left handed people trying with right hand.

It's nice that there are a lot of people who have no problem adapting or are ambidextrous but not everyone is able to be that way. In fact, I'm sure a sizable amount of left handed people cannot do that.

Anyway, it won't effect my enjoyment one way or the other, but I am sorry people like Dragona can't enjoy a franchise they love due to these issues.

Plywood · Jun 17, 2010

comedy bomb said:
But how many play video games, and more importantly, Zelda?

Well obviously the numbers get smaller then, but with a system with such wide appeal or claimed wide appeal as the Wii, you'd think they would've thought this through. Instead of ignoring the left handed.

TheGreatMightyPoo · Jun 17, 2010

I kind of feel badly for the lefties, I mean not exactly the same thing but if I was told "you can't play basketball with your right hand", while I could still play, I'd be really shitty and learning to use the other hand isn't that easy(though I can kick the shit out of the soccer ball with my left foot).

It's a tough deal for you guys and it doesn't make me happy, it makes me feel lucky.

Jocchan · Jun 17, 2010

BertramCooper said:
We've already seen a video of a lefty playing the floor demo with absolutely no difficulty.

Not that big of a deal.

I'm left-handed and play all the Wii games right-handed with no problem whatsoever. They hardly need a precision superior to the one I can still get with my non-dominant hand.
My gf is left-handed too and often holds the Wii remote in her left hand and the nunchuk in the right one, but she never really had any problems either.
I can see how for some lefties this can be more inconvenient, but unlike the 3DS (where it's objectively quite worse because of the stylus) I'm not really sure it's that big of a deal for the Wii. Surely annoying, but maybe not deal-breaking.

Formless said:
I don't think you need to be super coordinated with your non-dominant hand to do most of the stuff. Aiming with the bow and stuff might suck more than swordplay though.

The bow isn't using IR aiming, but the Wii Sports Resort setup. So, it's a bit more lefty-friendly.

Amir0x · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona said:
I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt.

I actually tried this once. I wanted to be like the dude in the video using two stylus to hit beats. Every time I needed to hit a beat with my left hand I basically became an uncoordinated mess who could not hit the broad side of a barn

GrotesqueBeauty · Jun 17, 2010

I'll take the "new" director as a good sign. The Oracle games and Minish Cap are in the middle of the pack for me, which as far as Zelda games go is still pretty damn good. Overall I prefer LttP, LA, OoT, and MM, but I had a lot more fun with the GBC/GBA Zelda games than WW, TP, or PH which I found polished, but disjointed. I give Aonuma a lot of credit for MM, which is one of my favorites, but ever since then the Zelda games he's helmed lack the overall cohesion that separates very good games from true classics imo. I'm curious to see a new take on things.

Tathanen · Jun 17, 2010

Again, I have no idea what this has to do with ambidexterity. We have multiple accounts in here now that it plays just fine with the remote in your left hand. The only POSSIBLE disconnect would be that the on-screen stuff is slanted more to the right than left. And even then, only aesthetically, not functionally.

EmCeeGramr · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt. That's the equivalent of precision Zelda Wii looks like it's going to involve.

But that's manipulating a stylus, that's fine motor control, not moving your wrist and arms. That's far more tied to your handedness than Wiimote controls.

But I did play both Trauma Centers with two styluses, and that worked great.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm not sure if this is the real problem. Why can't you just hold it in your left hand anyway?

JohnsonUT · Jun 17, 2010

Didn't Miyamoto play it right handed on stage? Maybe it wasn't interference, but his lack of precision with the right hand.

comedy bomb · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt. That's the equivalent of precision Zelda Wii looks like it's going to involve.

Is this the same Zelda that was at the conference, because it certainly didn't look all that precise to me.

Door2Dawn · Jun 17, 2010

JohnsonUT said:
Didn't Miyamoto play it right handed on stage? Maybe it wasn't interference, but his lack of precision with the right hand.

No.

trinest · Jun 17, 2010

Couldn't the Zelda problem be fixed by allowing users to select what hand they want an object in- like the game boy zeldas?

Medalion · Jun 17, 2010

JohnsonUT said:
Didn't Miyamoto play it right handed on stage? Maybe it wasn't interference, but his lack of precision with the right hand.

There clearly was a point in the demo you could see the camera moving around completely independantly without having MIyamoto moving his hands at all.

Boney · Jun 17, 2010

Plywood said:
I did some digging around just now and I found a nice amount of sites saying it was 10% of the population or 1 out every 10 people on average is left-handed. Also anecdotal but my sister is left handed and I'm from a family of 5.

Thanks.. that's a lot..

comedy bomb said:
But how many play video games, and more importantly, Zelda?

Umm.. 10% of gamers? it's stadistical data, we can't get more from that.

Dragona Akehi said:
I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt. That's the equivalent of precision Zelda Wii looks like it's going to involve.

Those should be different though, one requires fast and precise movements with a very small margin of error while the other are big motions and not as punishing.

It'll still be a frustrating experience though.

Crumpet Trumpet · Jun 17, 2010

Just play with your left hand anyway. I'm sure the controls won't be so punishing that you'll be forced to hold the Wii remote and nunchuck the righty way.

Dragona Akehi · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
But that's manipulating a stylus, that's fine motor control, not moving your wrist and arms. That's far more tied to your handedness than Wiimote controls.

Can you bowl with your left hand? That's what we're going to be doing with Bombs in Zelda. You have to make the exact angled slice to defeat that crab. It's pretty damned coordinated.

Not to mention that the 3DS definitely is going to fall into that problem without the second slider/analogue thing.

But I did played Trauma Center with two styluses, and that worked okay.

That's poking instrument buttons. Do JJF for me with only your left hand.

JaseMath · Jun 17, 2010

No left handed mode?! Are you fucking kidding me?! Waggle is one thing, I can waggle all day long with my right hand, but as far as being proficient with it, wielding a sword to nearly 1:1 controls....no.

So, basically, I'm not buying this because it's going to be awkward as shit for me to play. God damn it. God damn it.

EmCeeGramr · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
Can you bowl with your left hand? That's what we're going to be doing with Bombs in Zelda. You have to make the exact angled slice to defeat that crab. It's pretty damned coordinated.

So use your left hand.

JohnsonUT · Jun 17, 2010

Medalion said:
There clearly was a point in the demo you could see the camera moving around completely independantly without having MIyamoto moving his hands at all.

I understand, but this could have compounded the problem if the precision is definitely a problem for some.

Ignis Fatuus · Jun 17, 2010

Amir0x said:
I'm not left handed but with the move to motion controls, the necessity to have left hand modes increases exponentially. It is not fair for left handed gamers to be penalized for something beyond their control.

I know it is incredibly difficult for me to be anywhere near as proficient with my left hand as my right. I imagine it's similar for a lot of left handed people trying with right hand.

It's nice that there are a lot of people who have no problem adapting or are ambidextrous but not everyone is able to be that way. In fact, I'm sure a sizable amount of left handed people cannot do that.

Anyway, it won't effect my enjoyment one way or the other, but I am sorry people like Dragona can't enjoy a franchise they love due to these issues.

I don't understand what precludes lefties from holding the Wiimote in their dominant hand. Heck in Twilight Princess I tried playing with the Wiimote in my left hand and after a period of adjustment it was fine. There are impressions from the show floor with people using their left hand fine as well.

If it's just a psychological thing I'm willing to bet that the percent of the market unable to play the game is so small that Nintendo simply cannot justify the creation of a lefty mode in business terms.

Formless · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
I'm not saying this to be a jerk, but seriously go play JJF on Sweatin' on EBA with your left hand and get back to me on how easy it was to adapt. That's the equivalent of precision Zelda Wii looks like it's going to involve.

I'm pretty sure you're not gonna be tracing anything in the game. Just because Zelda SS or Wii Sports Resort's swordfighting can detect very small movements doesn't mean those small movements are gonna be necessary. I can see the complaints for aiming at small enemies. Or just use your left hand with visual annoyance for the swordfighting.

EDIT: the "exact angle" for fighting the giant scorpion is either vertical, horizontal, or either diagonal. The angles involved in that seem to have enough leeway. Besides, even in your dominant hand you won't be 100% lined up.

Dragona Akehi · Jun 17, 2010

EmCeeGramr said:
So use your left hand.

Try Wii bowling using your right hand but having the controls set to Lefty.

Crumpet Trumpet · Jun 17, 2010

I don't think it's a big deal for Zelda, but the 3DS anti-lefty control scheme is whack.

superbank · Jun 17, 2010

Fuckers.

Make a mirrored link model... after that I don't know what else could be a problem. If they build the game to focus on where the sword is attacking from (like how I imagine WSR works) it shouldn't matter if the model is mirrored.

In WSR I could do a left-to-right horizontal slash and if a righty did the same slash the game couldn't tell the difference. So all SS would have to do is ask if I'm left or right handed in the beginning and display the corresponding in-game model. Seems simple enough but I don't know anything about game development so hey.

And yes I can hold the wii remote in my left hand and it would work. Thats what I plan on doing but it would be nice if the character on screen was holding the sword in the correct hand.

Boney · Jun 17, 2010

Ignis Fatuus said:
I don't understand what precludes lefties from holding the Wiimote in their dominant hand. Heck in Twilight Princess I tried playing with the Wiimote in my left hand and after a period of adjustment it was fine. There are impressions from the show floor with people using their left hand fine as well.

If it's just a psychological thing I'm willing to bet that the percent of the market unable to play the game is so small that Nintendo simply cannot justify the creation of a lefty mode in business terms.

That would be pretty sloppy and it's definately something I do not expect from Nintendo.

GrotesqueBeauty · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
Can you bowl with your left hand? That's what we're going to be doing with Bombs in Zelda. You have to make the exact angled slice to defeat that crab. It's pretty damned coordinated.

Why don't you just use your regular playing hand? Who gives a shit if Link holds it on the left or right, it's all a matter of what direction you swipe in either way. It's just a layer of abstraction. No one freaks out because pressing a button makes a character swing a sword instead of pressing a button in the game world.

lyre · Jun 17, 2010

Tathanen said:
I'm sorry, has this always been a discussion about ability to adapt? I thought it was one about simply not supporting left-handedness. If we're doing this, let's chastise the game for not having explicit voiced audio cues for all on-screen actions so blind people can play it. I think they're probably a larger demographic than "left-handed people who can't handle holding the remote in their left hand because link holding it in his right hand looks weird."

I'm all for helping those who can't play find a way to play. But it's not me who's being high and mighty and telling those who can't to 'adapt or die'. I just want the OPTION to flip everything, since they did that for TP (left -> right) originally.

And like this game and 3DS, this thread, I'm out. Cause it's obvious many can't see what's beyond their nose.

unifin · Jun 17, 2010

Just out of curiosity, is the not using the left hand if Link's using his right phenomenon a matter of actual cognitive dissonance or just aesthetic displeasure?

I can see it "looking" weird, but in terms of executing the directional slashes seems like one could adjust to it.

Requiring essentially double the disc space and whatnot seems like it isn't technically feasible. I highly doubt that given how Miyamoto himself is, IIRC, left handed, they're doing it because they dun wanna.

Anonymous Tipster · Jun 17, 2010

Clearly overreacting.

It's been said multiple times already, but people who've actually played it have done so successfully with their left hand.

Drama is fun and all, but come on.

JaseMath · Jun 17, 2010

Ignis Fatuus said:
I don't understand what precludes lefties from holding the Wiimote in their dominant hand. Heck in Twilight Princess I tried playing with the Wiimote in my left hand and after a period of adjustment it was fine. If it's just a psychological thing I'm willing to bet that the percent of the market unable to play the game is going to be so small that Nintendo simply cannot justify the creation of a lefty mode in business terms.

It's about the nunchuck in my right hand for me. Try playing anything with the nunchuck in your right hand. Its really god damned difficult and it's nowhere near as easy as people make it seem.

fernoca · Jun 17, 2010

Tathanen said:
Again, I have no idea what this has to do with ambidexterity.

I kinda wonder that too..
How's that "being left-handed and not having problems playing Wii games" translates into being ambidextrous.

The family members, my friends that are left-handed had no problems with the Wii and they can't write, draw and do many other things (like playing tennis) with their non-dominant hands...unless being ambidextrous s a Wii exclusive feature..or something..

Heck, I'm right handed and I can write (really slow) and draw with my left hand and don't consider myself ambidextrous.

Tathanen · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
Try Wii bowling using your right hand but having the controls set to Lefty.

This is not Wii Bowling. This is slashing on a vertical plane. It's identical no matter the hand. Same with the aiming.

I guess you have an argument if you consider the... bomb bowling. But that's about it.

What boggles the mind the most is that this crippled you so much in Twilight Princess, which literally does nothing but directionless waggle. What possible reason could there be for it not being playable in your left hand.

thefro · Jun 17, 2010

cosmicblizzard said:
Couldn't the "No Left Handed Mode" be in parentheses in the thread title? Don't want to question a mod but I still think knowing the director is important.

Miyamoto held the Wii remote in his left hand when he did the demo... it just means the character won't display it.

Formless · Jun 17, 2010

Just to clear things up, was the flipping in TP available from an options menu, or are people referring to the default right-side flip for the Wii version?

Dragona Akehi · Jun 17, 2010

Tathanen said:
This is not Wii Bowling. This is slashing on a vertical plane. It's identical no matter the hand. Same with the aiming.

I guess you have an argument if you consider the... bomb bowling. But that's about it.

What boggles the mind the most is that this crippled you so much in Twilight Princess, which literally does nothing but directionless waggle. What possible reason could there be for it not being playable in your left hand.

My point is that when holding the wiimote in your other hand, the Wii expects different angles, hence my point about Wii bowling with the settings backwards.

As for TP, I had an option. I don't anymore, and it's definitely several magnitudes worse than TP.

Formless said:
Just to clear things up, was the flipping in TP available from an options menu, or are people referring to the default right-side flip for the Wii version?

There was no left handed mode in TP Wii. In the GC version Link was lefthanded as usual. The Wii version is "flipped" so that everything is opposite (Link had his right hand be his sword arm).

EmCeeGramr · Jun 17, 2010

Dragona Akehi said:
Try Wii bowling using your right hand but having the controls set to Lefty.

I just set a new record! :lol

SupraDarky · Jun 17, 2010

One thing I do wonder though, is how it's not possible to simply mirror Link himself (instead of the world). I don't understand why you'd have to redesign and change all the models?

Xeke · Jun 17, 2010

Can't you just like uh, hold the wiimote in your left hand?

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