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Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES

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MrMephistoX

MrMephistoX

Member
darkwing said:
lol @ people asking for more higher specs, you want to pay for a $599 machine?
Click to expand...


Probably since PC gaming rigs these days match those specs: it will be out of date within a month of launch. If I'm shelling out for a new console I want it to be insanely over-powered at launch.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
DopeyFish said:
No. This is because creating high resolution art is very costly and FYI, the reason for the high memory amounts is due to what? Frame buffers and multiple displays (on top of the assets, and shader calc shit)

Do me a favor and calculate what a frame buffer size would be for 6 screens running at 1080p with 32 bit color, (+transparencies) with say... 4xAA and 16xAF

I'll wait here
Click to expand...

How would the bolded affect framebuffer size?
 
E

eastmen

Banned
DopeyFish said:
No. This is because creating high resolution art is very costly and FYI, the reason for the high memory amounts is due to what? Frame buffers and multiple displays (on top of the assets, and shader calc shit)

Do me a favor and calculate what a frame buffer size would be for 6 screens running at 1080p with 32 bit color, (+transparencies) with say... 4xAA and 16xAF

I'll wait here
Click to expand...

Yea I'm not going to do that .


I think your missing the fact that the art is already created at high resolution and is then reduced in quality for the consoles.

The art work is already being made. Costs would not be very costly they would barely move in terms of cost.
 
T

Tylahedras

Banned
I hope Sony doesn't go in 2012, ms is somewhat expected, but Sony's machine needs more time, it hasn't even really hit it's stride yet graphically.
 
M

Majanew

Banned
eastmen said:
I'm interested in why you think this .


Bluray players can be had for $50 right now and are now entering the phase where they can be impulse purchases. Why would this be a big feature of consoles in 2012 ?
Click to expand...
Because I have to turn my Xbox off and turn something else on to play the latest Blu-ray movie I bought or rented from redbox?
 
Y

Your Excellency

Banned
Nealand Liquor said:
Exactly. My main disappoint during the first few years of this gen was that the games felt the same just with a nicer coat of paint. While I really believe gameplay always has, and always will take a back seat to graphics, I'd like to see the power being used not just for the pretty shiny things, but also for the immersion.

Next gen I want an open world game with a functioning city alive and brimming with people, business and it's own ecosystem. I want to go into every room in every building and I want to be able to blow the fuck out of everything leveling the city. I don't care if it has to have ps2 graphics to do this, I just want to see the world burn!
Click to expand...

Yeh. If the PS4 launched with GTAV with graphics identical to the trailer but with the sole additions of fully destructible environments and cities teeming with traffic/people, it would honestly spark a revolution, and set the bar in ways we never thought possible. Suddenly destructible environments would take precedence over 1080p and other developers would focus on gameplay enhancements (AI, destructability, huge crowds) over graphics enhancements (1080p, 16xAA).
 
L

LCfiner

Member
Tylahedras said:
I hope Sony doesn't go in 2012, ms is somewhat expected, but Sony's machine needs more time, it hasn't even really hit it's stride yet graphically.
Click to expand...

yeah, it has. we’re not gonna see anything on the PS3 that is noticeably better than the top tier stuff out now.

And we’ve seen lots of games (even first party) that are hitting the limits of the tech.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Graphics Horse said:
How would the bolded affect framebuffer size?
Click to expand...

Wooooops

Forgot its RGBA (8 blue 8 green 8 red and 8 alpha) = 32 bit

But AF does effect frame buffer, you're doing 16 passes on an image to correct the texturing

eastmen said:
Yea I'm not going to do that .


I think your missing the fact that the art is already created at high resolution and is then reduced in quality for the consoles.

The art work is already being made. Costs would not be very costly they would barely move in terms of cost.
Click to expand...

Wrong sir we were discussing a pc only game and VRAM and discounting why 2GB isn't really for filling up with raw content
 
E

eastmen

Banned
Majanew said:
Because I have to turn my Xbox off and turn something else on to play the latest Blu-ray movie I bought or rented from redbox?
Click to expand...

and what about watching standard cable tv ? Don't you have to shut your xbox off then ?

wouldn't it be easier and more power efficent to just use a bluray player.

Wouldn't it also prolong the life of both devices by doing this
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
DopeyFish said:
Wooooops

Forgot its RGBA (8 blue 8 green 8 red and 8 alpha)

But AF does effect frame buffer, you're doing 16 passes on an image to correct the texturing
Click to expand...

That just means it takes longer, frame size is fine. There's lots of other things you can waste framebuffer size on though, if you can afford it. ( the last 8 bits are no use as alpha on a final buffer either, so you've got those to play with )
 
T

thuway

Member
Tylahedras said:
I hope Sony doesn't go in 2012, ms is somewhat expected, but Sony's machine needs more time, it hasn't even really hit it's stride yet graphically.
Click to expand...

The PS3 has peaked in its graphical ability. I do think, however, MS would be better suited to wait till 2013 with Sony. The longer we wait, the cheaper parts become, and the higher end we can go.

I would rather Sony go for a Series 7 NVidia card, and Microsoft go with a Series 8 AMD card. I want both to go really out there, because these might be the last consoles we get. Launching early to fight a Nintendo won't do anything. The HD Twins can set the standard once again.
 
D

DarkChild

Banned
Tylahedras said:
I hope Sony doesn't go in 2012, ms is somewhat expected, but Sony's machine needs more time, it hasn't even really hit it's stride yet graphically.
Click to expand...
Oh sure it has. GTAV will be this gens console last step as far as tech goes...
 
K

King_Moc

Banned
No. This is because creating high resolution art is very costly and FYI, the reason for the high memory amounts is due to what? Frame buffers and multiple displays (on top of the assets, and shader calc shit)
Click to expand...

Well, we already know that the PC version of Battlefield 3 uses 1.4GB on Ultra. I'd be dissappointed if consoles hadn't surpassed that level of graphics in 6 or 7 years time (however long the next gen is), so i'd be hoping for 2GB at least.

Not gonna happen though. We all know they'll target 720p and 30fps. Makes the screenshots look nicer.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Graphics Horse said:
That just means it takes longer, frame size is fine. There's lots of other things you can waste framebuffer size on though, if you can afford it.
Click to expand...

Yeah and for each pass where do you think it's storing the data? Ill give you a guess: memory. That's why it affects frame buffer while it's calculating the final output
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
Nealand Liquor said:
Next gen I want an open world game with a functioning city alive and brimming with people, business and it's own ecosystem. I want to go into every room in every building and I want to be able to blow the fuck out of everything leveling the city. I don't care if it has to have ps2 graphics to do this, I just want to see the world burn!
Click to expand...

The problem with this isn't hardware but the fact that people actually have to sit there and make all those crappy buildings that 95% of people won't bother with.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
DopeyFish said:
Wooooops

Forgot its RGBA (8 blue 8 green 8 red and 8 alpha) = 32 bit

But AF does effect frame buffer, you're doing 16 passes on an image to correct the texturing
Click to expand...
You have the wrong idea of how AF works. HW-carried AF is done entirely onboard the TMU; by the time the shader gets its texfetch, it's already pre-filtered. Surely you can implement your own version of AF in the shader, but people don't do that as it would be a sure way to kill the performance.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
FYI it would be 760 MB if not counting AF

6(screens)*1920(x)*1080(y)*4(Z)*4(AA)*32(colorspace)

I really hope my math isn't wrong on this LOL

Edit did I get the wrong number for Z buffer? I have a feeling it's 4 byte not bit which would make it 3+ GB o_O
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Graphics Horse said:
How would the bolded affect framebuffer size?
Click to expand...
They wouldn't, depending on what one assumes the 'framebuffer' means.

Typically many assume it as referring to the back buffer (final output frame), but the definition is a bit loose. In reality, a framebuffer is actually a piece of HW that outputs the final memory buffer to a display - but the term is used in SW contexts quite commonly.

Obviously DopeyFish was referring to all buffers in the rendering pipeline.
 
C

clav

Member
Raistlin said:
Wait ... people are seriously entertaining the idea of 2GB of VRAM?

Seriously?
Click to expand...
Crazy people want the next Xbox's size to be a colossus like gaming PC setups when they don't know how stuff needs to be crammed in a console motherboard in a reasonable box size.

Not gonna happen.

Customers care about aesthetics.
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
claviertekky said:
Crazy people want the next Xbox's size to be a colossus like gaming PC setups when they don't know how stuff needs to be crammed in a console motherboard in a reasonable box size.

Not gonna happen.

Customers care about aesthetics.
Click to expand...

Consumers do buy 17" wide dvd players, so I think a lot of it is precedence rather than aesthetics. I think the size of the launch 360 with a smaller power brick is the perfect console size.
 
blu

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
DopeyFish said:
FYI it would be 760 MB if not counting AF

6(screens)*1920(x)*1080(y)*4(Z)*4(AA)*32(colorspace)

I really hope my math isn't wrong on this LOL

Edit did I get the wrong number for Z buffer? I have a feeling it's 4 byte not bit which would make it 3+ GB o_O
Click to expand...
6 * 1920 * 1080 * 4 (aa) * 8 bytes (32bpp color + 24bpp z + 8 bpp stencil) = ~380MB.

Not quite sure what you'd do with 6 AA'd buffers, but I guess you have your purposes ; )

Graphics Horse said:
I knew Blu would come to my rescue :3
Click to expand...
One day I won't be around though ;p
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
CPU : IBM Power 710

- Architecture : IBM POWER7

- Cores : 6 Core

- Clockspeed : 3.72 GHz

GPU : Custom AMD Radeon HD Graphics

- Configuration : Single Die Dual Core

- Clockspeed : 750MHz

- Daughter Die : Renesas Electronics 100MB eDRAM

RAM : 2GB 512-Bit GDDR5 256GB/s (Unified Memory Architecture)


hmmmmmm

100 MB EDRAM = free AA with no impact. This would be a monster :eek: wait a second.... 256GB/s GDDR5??? LOL

edit: wait a second.... *looks at left pane*

well this is bullshit lol
 
T

thuway

Member
EDRAM sounds hot, the 2 GB of GDDR 5 doesn't :-/.

Sony, its your turn. 2013, 4-6 GB of Ram, Monster GPU, make it happen. Do us proud.

(I want to believe)
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
guek said:
yeah 100mb edram is....a lot, right? like, a helluva lot



wait...yeah....wut?
Click to expand...

that's a billion transistors just for memory... lol

DarkChild said:
Yea...this seems like next gen copy of 360. If eDRAM wasn't write only and you can sample from it that would be great. Post processing could be so much better and cheaper. Than again I dunno who is crazy enough to wast so much silicon on eDRAM.
Click to expand...

next gen copy of 360? That memory bus would make this an xbox 360.... in the xbox era. that's over 10 times the speed of what the 360 memory speed was.
 
D

DarkChild

Banned
DopeyFish said:
that's a billion transistors just for memory... lol



next gen copy of 360? That memory bus would make this an xbox 360.... in the xbox era. that's over 10 times the speed of what the 360 memory speed was.
Click to expand...
Well, I was only talking about design of this rumored console. Its exactly like 360, only much faster.
 
C

clav

Member
bgassassin said:
I have a tough time believing they would use a die that big for a CPU.
Click to expand...
Power7 CPUs have a requirement to be made in the 45nm process.

That said, I don't know how credible that site just posted is.

Just seems like speculative conclusions made from the info posted yesterday.
 
C

clav

Member
Is it safe to say that the Xbox 360 used a modified Power4 processor?

Something about that statement doesn't sound right.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
-ImaginaryInsider said:
That seems like a lot edram...what say you GAF? Are these specs plausible?
Click to expand...

it's plausible. however GDDR5 doesn't exist in that speed afaik

that's operating at the same bandwidth as the EDRAM in the Xbox 360 (iirc) which would mean... this thing would absolutely slaughter PCs without blinking
 
Proelite

Proelite

Member
DopeyFish said:
it's plausible. however GDDR5 doesn't exist in that speed afaik

that's operating at the same bandwidth as the EDRAM in the Xbox 360 (iirc) which would mean... this thing would absolutely slaughter PCs without blinking
Click to expand...

But PCs have up to 8 gigs of ram, they are dirt cheap nowadays. Why can't they pack in at least four gigs or the console will be outdated in two years.

256 gb/s GDDR5 LOL
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Proelite said:
But PCs have up to 8 gigs of ram, they are dirt cheap nowadays. Why can't they pack in at least four gigs or the console will be outdated in two years.
Click to expand...

That memory bandwidth is so insane that it's more than the PCIe x16 3.0 lane and DDR3 memory bandwidth added together and multiplied by 6

Just to give you an idea
 
D

DarkChild

Banned
Proelite said:
But PCs have up to 8 gigs of ram, they are dirt cheap nowadays. Why can't they pack in at least four gigs or the console will be outdated in two years.
Click to expand...
Yea, but do you know what it means to have this kind of eDRAM(especially if its not write only) in machine? You could fill your whole screen with highest resolution particles and it would even break a sweat.
 
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