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[mantidor]

Smash is a fanservice game, it makes sense to listen to the fanbase, and even then, only to a point.

That really doesn't imply that he is more or less in touch than Nintendo in general. And I think Nintendo is very in touch with the fanbase, they just don't cater to their every whim because it would basically made them run out of business.

 

[Kimosabae]

i still dont understand why some (many!!) people think that sakurai doesnt know what hes doing or that hes not "connected" with smash competitive comunity because of things like "for glory mode" or brawl. Of course he knows, even my little brother could "know" the smash competitive comunity if he wanted. The internet is there for anyone. Also, sakurai created the fucking series!! And in the case that he didnt know something, it would be because (for whatever reason related with what he wanted to develop) he didnt want to.

Those comments saying that he was trying to make "for glory mode" for the competitive comunity but that he didnt understand it... no. If he actually wanted to understand something, he would. Still, dont ask me why the "for glory mode" is like it is because... i am lost

This post is funny. The majority of the competitive scene for Smash resides outside Japan. That should tell you everything you need to know about their capacity to keep an adequate pulse on the competitive scene.

 

[Van Owen]

I doubt with randoms. IIRC brawl had one with friends, so this should too.

Brawl had zero voice chat.

If this and Kart don't have it, I'm considering not picking them up.

 

[GetemMa]

I think Aonuma is pretty good at giving his fans what they want without necessarily being told what that is exactly.

 

[thechristoph]

I think For Glory is a great idea and I look forward to trying it. So it's not tailored to the exact specifications that some folks would have preferred. Adjust your expectations. It's a standardized mode that is going to provide a consistent experience.

Like the guy who said his experience with randoms was they'd do wacky things like all bats and all pokeballs, we still have the often silly, always frenetic battles in the For Fun mode. When you want to "get serious" and play a more standardized battle, then you try out For Glory. It makes perfect sense.

Okay, so you'd prefer that the stage choice was Battleground instead of Final Destination. Maybe they'll be open to changing it. Maybe they won't. It doesn't change the intent of the mode: an EVEN playing field for those who want to test the skills on THAT PARTICULAR field. It's going to accomplish exactly what it wants to do.

To the posters who say that it's not going to appeal to the competitive players: Do you really go online and play against random internet people for true FG scene-style competition? My assumption is that you'd arrange something with a friend. And that system exists. You can set up all your options in a friend match. For Glory is explicitly NOT the only competitive option. Again, it is a set of rules that are always consistent for people who are interested in having battles in that environment.

 

[ec0ec0]

This post is funny. The majority of the competitive scene for Smash resides outside Japan. That should tell you everything you need to know about their capacity to keep an adequate pulse on the competitive scene.

I thought that the language shouldnt be a problem, in the case that they actually wanted to know something.

Also, all 3 smash bros games are really easy to follow nowadays on twitch.tv .Thats the easy answer, they can watch twitch without having to worry about the language or anything. After watching for some minutes they would already know that competitive people dont want no items, fox only, final destination (again, i think that they already know that).

That would take them some minutes, if they were interested (i dont know what they actually do). And I am not even talking about them "working" with people from the competitive community.

 

[Niwa]

Sakurai is a lovable person, until he cuts Ness and Lucas.

 

[ec0ec0]

Sakurai is a lovable person, until he cuts Ness and Lucas.

ness is save. Hes a veteran and we have already seen two objects of the "mother" franchise. Lucas... time will tell.

 

[FSLink]

I think For Glory is a great idea and I look forward to trying it. So it's not tailored to the exact specifications that some folks would have preferred. Adjust your expectations. It's a standardized mode that is going to provide a consistent experience.

Like the guy who said his experience with randoms was they'd do wacky things like all bats and all pokeballs, we still have the often silly, always frenetic battles in the For Fun mode. When you want to "get serious" and play a more standardized battle, then you try out For Glory. It makes perfect sense.

Okay, so you'd prefer that the stage choice was Battleground instead of Final Destination. Maybe they'll be open to changing it. Maybe they won't. It doesn't change the intent of the mode: an EVEN playing field for those who want to test the skills on THAT PARTICULAR field. It's going to accomplish exactly what it wants to do.

To the posters who say that it's not going to appeal to the competitive players: Do you really go online and play against random internet people for true FG scene-style competition? My assumption is that you'd arrange something with a friend. And that system exists. You can set up all your options in a friend match. For Glory is explicitly NOT the only competitive option. Again, it is a set of rules that are always consistent for people who are interested in having battles in that environment.

Nobody is saying it's a bad idea, it's just a mode that is obviously made for people who take Smash a bit more seriously than item only brawls. The execution is just a bit flawed. And yes, being able to play against random people (assuming the netcode is good this time around), is pretty fun for even competitive players. Including a VS Friends option with whatever rules you want is nice, but there isn't anything wrong with people criticizing a mode that is supposed to be "tailored for competitive players", and seemingly missing the point and is instead following a tired meme.

I think the majority of us have lowered expectations for the online play considering it's Nintendo, but the For Glory option shows that they have the right idea, just needs to understand what people want a bit more to make it a mode worth using.

 

[icy_eagle]

Brawl had zero voice chat.

If this and Kart don't have it, I'm considering not picking them up.

mario kart with voice chat sounds like the worst experience ever

 

[Holy Order Sol]

mario kart with voice chat sounds like the worst experience ever

Well it'd be kinda like Mario Kart with people in the room...

...on second thought you might be right

 

[Kai Dracon]

To me Sakurai is the only Japanese director/designer on the same wavelength as Hideki Kamiya. He is a "gamer's gamer" and looks at games from the perspective of an old console dog. Everything he does is in service of stuffing the game with content and things only lifelong gamers would appreciate or even notice.

I don't even knock Brawl on his track record, because if the game could have been patched Sakurai could have addressed hardcore player complaints - Brawl's state is on Nintendo's head and the Wii's non-updatable software. Sakurai then bounced back with Kid Icarus, demonstrating how Serious Business he is.

 

[Lernaean]

Brawl had zero voice chat.

If this and Kart don't have it, I'm considering not picking them up.

Nintendo doesn't like the idea of a spoiled brat calling other players 'c**ts' through voice chat considering their games aim to be rated for younger audiences.

Being an online gamer ever since the beginning of online gaming i think they are right.

 

[Van Owen]

mario kart with voice chat sounds like the worst experience ever

Nintendo doesn't like the idea of a spoiled brat calling other players 'c**ts' through voice chat considering their games aim to be rated for younger audiences.

Being an online gamer ever since the beginning of online gaming i think they are right.

Even when you're playing with friends?

Enough with the excuses already.

 

[Oblivion]

What makes you think you aren't the evil twin?

:O

 

[Schweinehund]

Banderas has been replaced as gafs mascot

I'd rather not have any mascot, even if it were my lord Gaben.

 

[Justified]

Nintendo doesn't like the idea of a spoiled brat calling other players 'c**ts' through voice chat considering their games aim to be rated for younger audiences.

Being an online gamer ever since the beginning of online gaming i think they are right.

Just have a mute option, Hell make it auto-mute and you must opt-in to hear chat. At least have the option in some capacity

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Brawl had zero voice chat.

If this and Kart don't have it, I'm considering not picking them up.

It's a pretty ridiculous reason not to buy a game man.

 

[Anth0ny]

Knows his fanbase? Sure.

Gives them what they want? Lol

 

[Syril]

Knows his fanbase? Sure.

Gives them what they want? Lol

I didn't ask for Kid Icarus Uprising or Meteos, but they're what made me buy both DS systems.

 

[thechristoph]

Nobody is saying it's a bad idea, it's just a mode that is obviously made for people who take Smash a bit more seriously than item only brawls. The execution is just a bit flawed. And yes, being able to play against random people (assuming the netcode is good this time around), is pretty fun for even competitive players. Including a VS Friends option with whatever rules you want is nice, but there isn't anything wrong with people criticizing a mode that is supposed to be "tailored for competitive players", and seemingly missing the point and is instead following a tired meme.

I think the majority of us have lowered expectations for the online play considering it's Nintendo, but the For Glory option shows that they have the right idea, just needs to understand what people want a bit more to make it a mode worth using.

People may not be saying the words "This is a bad idea", but they are saying that it's not going to satisfy the audience that it was made for. You say it's missing the point... I think you're missing the point! It's not supposed to be their be-all end-all competitive venue, it's just one set of standard rules for *A* competitive match type. Not *THE DEFINITIVE* match. It'd be nice if they did more versions or more options, but it seems like the idea is that you click For Glory and you know what you're getting every time. You jump in and practice with randoms and test out your techniques and then you can set up your idea match in friends mode. I think it's a cool way for non-competitive players to dip their toes into a competitively-tuned game mode.

I'm not trying to crap on anyone who DOESN'T think it's cool, I just get my pants in a twist when people make these giant declarative statements like "nobody's going to play this" or stuff like that. Like, stop speaking for me, guys. But I'm not a competitive smasher, I like Brawl the best because it has lots of characters and music and tons of stuff to do.

 

[Col WillieSharp]

It's a pretty ridiculous reason not to buy a game man.

What's a good reason then? What if the game only included 3 tracks? What if it didn't support 4 player local? Are they good reasons? Only one song on the soundtrack this time, can I not buy the game then? Not having voice chat is a perfectly fine reason to not pick up a racing game you were planning on playing online with your friends, isn't it?

 

[Lord Azrael]

is this a joke? sakurai has been shitting on core smash fans for YEARS...

Brawl was a giant loogie in the face of people who liked melee...

OP has short term memory or is just a fucking casual?

Your username is so fitting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvJeATp31dw

 

[Linkstrikesback]

an EVEN playing field for those who want to test the skills on THAT PARTICULAR field. It's going to accomplish exactly what it wants to do.

Final destination isn't an even playing field though. Certain characters will have a large advantage on it over others.
It's just a real shame we can't just have the ability to make rooms with at least some degree of choice in options e.g. picking stock and a few preset lists of items rather than what appeared to only be timed brawls and all or nothing items, with the stage choices corresponding to which of the prior option you chose.

There's also inevitably going to be a really terrible stage or 2 that you can't avoid because of the stages being completely random in for fun mode, despite that no-one would ever pick them.

 

[Aquamarine]

After today's Smash Direct, I was left excited and hyped, but also with the feeling that Sakurai-san really had his finger on the pulse of his fan base. Not only did Sakurai address key issues/complaints that were found in Brawl directly, but he also trolled the hell out of us the entire time, as many have noted. This wasn't just trolling like what you might see from that orange haired Capcom developer. No, his trolling was based on current (and old) arguments/debates going on in the Smash community. Some might find it aggravating, but I find it refreshing that there is a Nintendo developer that is actually well in tune with the people that spend coins on their products.

Do you think other Nintendo developers can learn a thing or three from Sakurai? Maybe then we wouldn't have gotten Nintendo Land. I know Gamefreak is pretty good with this kind of stuff, too, but they are a bit in their own little evergreen world.

So is Sakurai the only Nintendo dev like this... Or am I missing something?

I think Sakurai is the only Nintendo Dev that can rock those wacky floral print / animal print shirts.



When we're talking about "Nintendo developers," there's a big difference between the possibly out-of-touch head honchos like Mr. Miyamoto, and small employees who joined Nintendo because they're huge fans.

Just because Iwata / Miyamoto might mandate their teams to develop games a certain way...doesn't mean that the other developers don't understand the fanbase or aren't really creative.

 

[Laieon]

Wait, I just noticed that we haven't heard word of a stage creator. I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't get one, some of the most fun I had in Brawl was on custom stages.

At least Final Destination isn't nearly as terrible as it used to be, although I don't plan on ever touching "For Glory".

 

[Kimosabae]

I thought that the language shouldnt be a problem, in the case that they actually wanted to know something.

Also, all 3 smash bros games are really easy to follow nowadays on twitch.tv .Thats the easy answer, they can watch twitch without having to worry about the language or anything. After watching for some minutes they would already know that competitive people dont want no items, fox only, final destination (again, i think that they already know that).

That would take them some minutes, if they were interested (i dont know what they actually do). And I am not even talking about them "working" with people from the competitive community.

It has little to do with language and more to do with Nintendo and Japan, generally, isolating themselves from the western world's standards. This can be observed in both the social and technological spheres. Language is only a small part of that - some of it is a willful ignorance/lack of sympathy for motions abroad due to isolation. Examples I've seen mentioned in the Fighting Games Weekly thread are: stream technology, PC adoption, banking systems. That's japan, generally. Nintendo's languid steps towards modernity in the video games industry is well understood by now. The FD mode is a capitulation that pretty much shows how little they actually understand competitive Smash despite its high level of visibility (assuming it is a capitulation to that sect).

 

[ocean]

.

Betteridge's law of headlines: an adage that states: "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." It is named after Ian Betteridge, a British technology journalist,[1] although the general concept is much older.[2] The observation has also been called "Davis' law"[3][4] or just the "journalistic principle".[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines//)

Back on topic: wouldn't say he's the only one but they seem to be doing a great job on SSB.

 

[thechristoph]

Final destination isn't an even playing field though. Certain characters will have a large advantage on it over others.

I can't see how that'd be possible so I'll need to take your word for that.

 

[Mechazawa]

After the last Direct, he definitely seems like the most ambitious. I'd really like to see what he could do with a larger property free of Smash Bros. It'd be really cool to see what he could do with Zelda or Mario.

Or hell, not even Nintendo. Just something bigger that isn't Smash.

 

[Pikawil]

I can't see how [Final Destination not being an even playing field]'d be possible so I'll need to take your word for that.

Read up some food for debate:

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Final_Destination_(SSBM)#Controversy_in_competitive_play

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Nintendoland is amazing how dare you. How dare anybody.

I feel its good he knows his stuff but the game seems to be becoming more insular and fan-based. As a casual player, I am not sure if its worth it - and I have both consoles.

This is a terrible post because this is Smash we're talking about here, the game is going to be a solid package for all types of gamers. Fact is, nothing has changed that should make you think otherwise, and actually it should give you more confidence in the franchise. How could this franchise get worse if the developers know their fanbase better?

Terrible, terrible post.

Spoiler

I jest btw lol

Spoiler

>;]

For Glory mode doesn't sound perfect and can definitely use tweaking, but it shows more of a recognition of issues and wants than most other Nintendo games. I think the fact that he's not really a Nintendo employee and actually plays other games means that he's ahead of like, EAD, in that regard.

After that I would suppose the Mario Kart team and maaaybe the Zelda team (in the last year or so) in a distant third are better at reacting to complaints and desires of their fanbase. They still end up bound by a lot of... Nintendo-ness (a double edged sword of wanting to "do things different" which results in both unique ideas and a complete ignorance of genuinely good trends), but they seem to try.

It's also worth noting that despite all of the frequent claims about Sakurai making Melee 'as a fluke' or that Brawl showed he was a big doo-doo head or whatever, most of the interviews I recall show that he purposefully made Melee the way it is, then made Brawl the way it was because he was purposefully trying to appeal to a more casual crowd for the Wii, and recognizes that he went too far in some instances.

Now this is not a terrible post.

Sakurai starting off with "and I'm still alive" or some shit was pretty hilarious too hahah

 

[Nickle]

For Glory isn't a mode intended to be played by the pros. It's just Sakurai's way of trying to piss of competitive players by reinforcing the "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" phrase which people use to mock competitive Smash.

Spoiler

And I love it.

Besides, he knows that Melee worshippers are going to hate the new Smash because it's not just Melee 2.0, which most competitive players want.

 

[Beats]

For Glory isn't a mode intended to be played by the pros. It's just Sakurai's way of trying to piss of competitive players by reinforcing the "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" phrase which people use to mock competitive Smash.

Spoiler

And I love it.

Besides, he knows that Melee worshippers are going to hate the new Smash because it's not just Melee 2.0, which most competitive players want.

This is a really toxic post.

There's no reason to think that Sakurai and the development team created this new online mode with altered stages just to piss off a part of the fanbase. Nothing in the direct describing the mode shows that.

 

[Professor Beef]

Besides, he knows that Melee worshippers are going to hate the new Smash because it's not just Melee 2.0, which most competitive players want.

No, most competitive players just wanted a fun game. As for the rest of your post? Seems like you're insecure about something.

 

[theprodigy]

For Glory isn't a mode intended to be played by the pros. It's just Sakurai's way of trying to piss of competitive players by reinforcing the "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" phrase which people use to mock competitive Smash.

Spoiler

And I love it.

Besides, he knows that Melee worshippers are going to hate the new Smash because it's not just Melee 2.0, which most competitive players want.

this post from Riposte seems incredibly fitting:

This thread certainly contains the same defensive, purposeful ignorance towards what "competitive play" is that every Smash Bros thread seems to be doomed with. Resolution doesn't come easy because they don't want to understand; this is just a method to deal with those that makes them feel threatened. Even if "these players who are not playing to have fun" (lol) were minding their own business, their existence is troubling to these other players, that's why they butt in and give their opinions (attack) on things they do not care to understand. It's an inferiority complex in a way.



This would make an excellent option (you could go a step further and split Smashville and Halberd or add in a Fountain of Dreams layout). Better yet, players should be able to vote on this and have some determination in stage selection.

I'm surprised we haven't had one thread to detail all the things that are shitty about Smash's new online modes. As someone who has no plans to join the Smash tourney scene, I find it extremely limited. It's terribly archaic compared to similar fighting games or games with similar feature sets (shooters). Complete butt.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Smash is a fanservice game, it makes sense to listen to the fanbase, and even then, only to a point.

That really doesn't imply that he is more or less in touch than Nintendo in general. And I think Nintendo is very in touch with the fanbase, they just don't cater to their every whim because it would basically made them run out of business.

This.

 

[Comfort Jones]

I could not disagree further. The dude seems to actively hate me for everything I am and genuinely seems to not understand any merit in competition. He views anyone who likes actually putting time into getting good as some kind of freak weirdo.

 

[Nickle]

Relax guys, I was only half joking. Of course they didn't create an entire game mode just to annoy fans. They created an entire game mode to have more serious matches and annoy fans. I know I'm going to play this mode a lot, but I will still know that the mode is partially inspired by the "no items, fox only, Final Destination" phrase.

And don't pretend that their won't be people who won't like this new Smash because it isn't as fast and competitive as Melee. Brawl was a perfectly fun game, but people still denounce it for being more casual.

Also, you all shouldn't worry about their only being Final Destination in for Glory mode. The game hasn't been released yet, and Sakurai has made it clear that he knows what the internet wants. If they don't change it by release, then they can patch it in.

 

[DangerJuice]

The thing about For Glory is whatever because you can set up any type of game you want with online friends anyway. It WOULD be nice to have a competitive mode online that was malleable with randoms, but stuff like online tournaments or playing competitively with your friends is entirely possible.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

What's a good reason then? What if the game only included 3 tracks? What if it didn't support 4 player local? Are they good reasons? Only one song on the soundtrack this time, can I not buy the game then? Not having voice chat is a perfectly fine reason to not pick up a racing game you were planning on playing online with your friends, isn't it?

It says that you weren't really that interested in the game to begin with and you were at best on the fence.

If you are a fan of the series, the game not having voicechat would be a really silly reason to not get it.

I want voicechat with people on your friends list, that'd be really cool and it's one of the things that actually bothers me about Nintendo but there's no way I'd pass up this game because of something like that.

I really like the series and this game looks amazing and I'm sure plays just as good.

 

[Darryl]

Smash is a fanservice game, it makes sense to listen to the fanbase, and even then, only to a point.

That really doesn't imply that he is more or less in touch than Nintendo in general. And I think Nintendo is very in touch with the fanbase, they just don't cater to their every whim because it would basically made them run out of business.

Yea I agree with you here. There's touches in a lot of their games that show they care about enthusiast fans and know what they want. I see them all of the time. The Zelda franchise in particular is being heavily influenced by fan opinion. Sakurai is just one of the few people in capable of really over-delivering.

 

[Benzychenz]

Even when you're playing with friends?

Enough with the excuses already.

Get out your phone or laptop and get on skype.

 

[Zomba13]

Wait, I just noticed that we haven't heard word of a stage creator. I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't get one, some of the most fun I had in Brawl was on custom stages.

At least Final Destination isn't nearly as terrible as it used to be, although I don't plan on ever touching "For Glory".

I feel it might return due to what they've done with the Final destination variations. Every level had to have it's own flat piece made so why not a few more shapes? Like, instead of the three or so custom themes in Brawl we'll get one for each stage.

I hope anyway.

 

[GamerJM]

Eh, no. I'd say the Pokemon developers probably know the fanbase the best, with each game being more competitively balanced than the last and the games having fanservice (especially gen 6, with all of the fanservice for longtime gen 1 fans).

I'd say what Sakurai understands better than anyone at Nintendo is how to generate hype for games. Using the internet to consistently let information about the games come out over a long, sustained period of time with occasional little nods to the fanbase is the way to go. Additionally he knows how to make hype trailers.

 

[Freezie KO]

Get out your phone or laptop and get on skype.

Give me a break. I don't want to be negative about the game because the Direct was pretty great. But there's no need to be an apologist for how backwards Nintendo is when it comes to online.

The game should have more options, so players who want to play competitively with stocks can do so. And the game should have voice chat.

 

[botty]

Give me a break. I don't want to be negative about the game because the Direct was pretty great. But there's no need to be an apologist for how backwards Nintendo is when it comes to online.

The game should have more options, so players who want to play competitively with stocks can do so. And the game should have voice chat.

Yep. Anyone who thinks these developers shouldn't have standard features in their games is an apologist through and through.

 

[Professor Beef]

Get out your phone or laptop and get on skype.

And put a strain on Nintendo's already laughable online?

 

[Comfort Jones]

After today's Smash Direct, I was left excited and hyped, but also with the feeling that Sakurai-san really had his finger on the pulse of his fan base. Not only did Sakurai address key issues/complaints that were found in Brawl directly, but he also trolled the hell out of us the entire time, as many have noted. This wasn't just trolling like what you might see from that orange haired Capcom developer. No, his trolling was based on current (and old) arguments/debates going on in the Smash community. Some might find it aggravating, but I find it refreshing that there is a Nintendo developer that is actually well in tune with the people that spend coins on their products.

Ok actually gonna address this because it's bothering me. Those issues in Brawl were added to that game. They were not present in Melee or 64. Hell the guys that worked on those games are nowhere to be seen in Brawl, and it shows. Saying "I'm not putting tripping in this game" is like someone's crazy ex girlfriend saying they won't shit in their cereal again. And then he "trolled us". That's not worthy of applause.

Also FD variants for "competitive play" has got to be the most fuckwat response to the competitive community. It's 2014, does anyone here seriously believe all high level/competitive/whatever players do is play on FD? A lot of high and top tier characters don't even like being on that stage.

 

[botty]

Ok actually gonna address this because it's bothering me. Those issues in Brawl were added to that game. They were not present in Melee or 64. Hell the guys that worked on those games are nowhere to be seen in Brawl, and it shows. Saying "I'm not putting tripping in this game" is like someone's crazy ex girlfriend saying they won't shit in their cereal again. And then he "trolled us". That's not worthy of applause.

Also FD variants for "competitive play" has got to be the most fuckwat response to the competitive community. It's 2014, does anyone here seriously believe all high players do is play on FD? A lot of high and top tier characters don't even like being on that stage.

Why are you undermining what has been changed? Smash 4 has directly addressed several major issues that fans (not just the competitive scene) have complained about:

• tripping
• shallow online
• speed
• floatiness
• character balance
• adding actual Nintendo enemies to the "adventure"/Smash Run

To name a few. The game is still in development, and with an ear towards the community who knows what else will be addressed from now until the game goes gold. The trolling is not worthy of applause, but it's worthy of being recognized because it means Sakurai is paying attention to the community.

Your complaints are all rooted in melee/brawl mentality competitive mentality. We don't know what the tier list will look like, and we don't know if stuff like yoshi island, FoD, or PS will even return. Either way, playing with friends allows for fully customizable battles... so what really is the issue here?