Lupin the Third
Member
Everyone ignores me, but WHY is SF: The Movie bad? The console version, I mean. It's really fun and it plays exactly like Super Street Fighter II Turbo, which everybody loves. Seriously, why the hate?
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Is it safe to say that Alpha was the worst series in mainline Street Fighter?
- Thread starter Snakeyes
- Start date
EX1 wasn't very good. EX2 is pretty good, but I think the combos are all far too homogeneous, along with a lot of redundant characters.
I never played EX3.
Wut? It plays nothing like Super Turbo.
Couldn't agree more
disappeared
Banned
Alpha 3 is the only Street Fighter I can go back to after years and jump right in.
soxinthebox
Member
Every time I play Alpha 3 I can't shake the feeling that the character's have too much health. I don't know whether that's just because of the air blocking dragging things out but it's slow and boring as hell.
I really like Alpha 3 even though V-ism is broken as all fuck
Never played the EX games
Personally I think 3S is insanely overrated. It's fun, but incredibly unbalanced and extremely not friendly or accessible to newcomers. I think SSF4 (specifically AE 2012) is a much more balanced and accessible experience, which is why I prefer it.
Honestly a lot of people I've seen on various forums that love 3S and hate SSF4 come off as pretty elitist. I really don't see what the problem is with making a game more friendly to newcomers.
Never played the EX games
Personally I think 3S is insanely overrated. It's fun, but incredibly unbalanced and extremely not friendly or accessible to newcomers. I think SSF4 (specifically AE 2012) is a much more balanced and accessible experience, which is why I prefer it.
Honestly a lot of people I've seen on various forums that love 3S and hate SSF4 come off as pretty elitist. I really don't see what the problem is with making a game more friendly to newcomers.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It's the anti-parry crowd that boggles my mind.
I'm one of the anti-parry crowd. Lol.
3s is okay, but I never want to see parries make a return.
kunonabi
Member
they do way more harm than good.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
EX is considered the black sheep of the SF family, altho I enjoyed EX+Alpha and hear EX2 is the best of the three. The EX games also had the best introduction of new SF characters (design-wise) since SF2 Turbo.
SF3 2I and 3S are the best-playing in the franchise.
If I had to order them it'd go III>Alpha>EX>II>4 best-to-worst.
SFIV went overboard with those. Sirlin explained the problem with that very well imho.
SF3 2I and 3S are the best-playing in the franchise.
If I had to order them it'd go III>Alpha>EX>II>4 best-to-worst.
They aren't as loose as the IV games, but you're right the III games are generally easier to get into after some practice than IV. One reason b/c you always have so many options for offense available and it's as close to MMA SF ever got. The other b/c it didn't fuck up and focus so much on extremely difficult one-frame links.
SFIV went overboard with those. Sirlin explained the problem with that very well imho.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
The EX series still has phenomenal music.
This is the #1 reason I can't bring myself to dislike it.
Shame about the Arika troubles. I'd take any of the EX dudes over Rufus and some of the other SF4 clowns.
Also the one-frame links are a big reason why I can't get into SF4. At least there's a certain level of satisfaction that comes from parrying in SF3. It actually feels like an advanced technique to master. When I'm fumbling around in practice mode trying to get those links I just feel like an idiot that should drop fighting games entirely.
This is the #1 reason I can't bring myself to dislike it.
Shame about the Arika troubles. I'd take any of the EX dudes over Rufus and some of the other SF4 clowns.
Also the one-frame links are a big reason why I can't get into SF4. At least there's a certain level of satisfaction that comes from parrying in SF3. It actually feels like an advanced technique to master. When I'm fumbling around in practice mode trying to get those links I just feel like an idiot that should drop fighting games entirely.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
That probably benefitted me. I'm a terrible scrub (the only games I was ever even locally dominant on were SC2 and MVC1for god's sake) so I won't claim to have sophisticated fighting game taste anyway, but what I always remember as my first impression of SF3 is the animation having so many frames I couldn't figure out the timing of anything.
petran79
Banned
Didnt know!
Which makes it more mind boggling why the dc version of sfa3 has all those issues.
Only good thing were the corrected english translations
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Parries reward moment-to-moment reads, but they heavily reduce long-term consequences from spacing.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
Easily one of the most striking and memorable character designs in any SF. He made me want to play the EX games.
Sapiens
Member
I enjoy MotW's "just defend" spin on that mechanic more. Feels better to me on some level.
petran79
Banned
that game has even a guard cancel!
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I'm not saying they're bad, just saying going overboard with them is a terrible idea. Sirlin explained that there's a 4-tier system for mastery of a fighting game. Tier 1 is beginner level, Tier 2 is where you begin to understand the game mechanics and combos better, but where you're still doing some scrubby stuff (wake-up Supers, not using hit confirms, etc.) Tier 3 is where you basically have a solid wrap on at least a few characters to be very competitive with them, have all the basic combos down and quite a few of the advanced ones, know how to cancel well, can tell specific uses for certain moves in unique ways etc. And Tier 4 is where you fully understand every game mechanic, timing, set-ups, know character-specific combos and traps, and essentially are playing on a pro level.
SF3 has a much lower barrier to entry to Tier 4 because it has a good balance of combos that are cancel-based, link-based, and a few one-frame link combos but not to the point where they become obsessed by the game and where you HAVE to use them to stand a chance. Because of that the game has a great sense of flow and doesn't turn so much into a stale bout of specific characters doing very specific things. Zoning may be a good thing but if all it leads to are a few combos that are truly viable in a real match, what's the point?
By comparison SF4 made the jump to Tier 4 much more difficult because of all the one-frame links. Nevermind they're almost impossible to do online (how most people, including myself, played/play the game competitively w/ others b/c we can't all get out to SoCal); an over-abundance on one-frame links (don't get that confused w/ links) kind of reduces player options for offense and the element of surprise regarding offensive combat. There was no good reason for them to throw so many into the game; how many characters truly benefit from them anyway?
Once you had people reaching Tier 4 in SF4, there was pretty much no chance for people on the lower tiers (let's say Tier 3 in this case) compete with them; that isn't a problem in any other SF game. And I don't mean compete as in a scrub should be able to beat a pro player; I mean that in way of where someone who's on Tier 3 and is very solid in most aspects shouldn't have a massive gulf of disparity in chances to win vs. someone on Tier 4; most of the skills on Tier 4 should be useful for anchillary benefits and bonuses that can give a noticeable edge, not something that seems only a god could attain.
So there you go; between stuff like that, ridiculous command buffer timings, and complete fanservice of a cast (and worst music), the SFIV games don't sit as highly w/ me as they should. They're still great games, but SFIV will never surpass 3S in terms of playability. It also falls behind games like the EX series and Alpha when it comes to introduction of new characters (let's be honest, Juri and Viper are the only new introductions that'd make it in SF5. Abel is okay but kind of boring in design. Fuerte, Rufus, and especially Hakan are complete jokes), and SF321/3S+the EX games when it comes to music.
Again go read what David Sirlin had to say about it if you want a better look into the "tiers" thing, but that's my take on it. I just hope they rectify these issues w/ SF5, b/c that truly could be the best SF to date.
I've read most of Sirlin's stuff, and I agree with him sometimes, and but as far as execution in fighting games go, I completely disagree. For Sirlin, execution and understanding of the game seem separate. I consider them to be parts of the whole. Understanding of the game and execution are equally important. Dumb down one, you dumb down the other, imo. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with a game with easy execution, but I don't consider difficult execution to be a bad thing.
I also think people overstate the importance of 1-frame links in SF4.
I love links. The more, the better. It's one of my favorite things about SF4. One of the things I disliked about SF3 (and alpha 3, for that matter) was its lack of links.
I also think people overstate the importance of 1-frame links in SF4.
I love links. The more, the better. It's one of my favorite things about SF4. One of the things I disliked about SF3 (and alpha 3, for that matter) was its lack of links.
When the first Alpha came out in the arcades here, the letdown was CATASTROPHIC. I remember being hyped by the new look in screenshots but when it came out, it felt.. so Off. It didnt help that it came out as 3D Fighters were REALLY picking up.
Our local arcade had 3 cabs and they never had anyone playing for the month or so that they had them. It was also expensive to play.
Our local arcade had 3 cabs and they never had anyone playing for the month or so that they had them. It was also expensive to play.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Alpha 2 is the best SF so...no.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Are we talking one-frame links or just links? B/c if the latter SF3 has plenty of those. Dudley's got at least two corner trap combos focused on links (c.FP juggle, LP MGB juggle, that can be used to get an opponent to a corner), Akuma w/ Tatsu hits on a super-jumping opponent, Ryu's hcf+Kick EX into either Shoryuken, jumping f.MP, Hadoken etc.
One frame links, yeah, it definitely has less of them, but that's why I prefer it over IV in this instance. I don't mind them, just don't overdo it.
Alpha 2 remains one of my favorite Street Fighter titles. It was gorgeous back when it came out, the controls were great, the soundtrack is one of my favorites, and it was just fun both at the arcade and on PlayStation.
Alpha 3 probably got more play (the Import Dreamcast version) because my friends and I liked the huuuuge roster, but the rest of the style changes didn't sit completely well with me.
SF3 never clicked with me, though I do enjoy 3rd Strike somewhat.
SF4 really revived the franchise and I love what it's become (minus Decapre), but before that, Alpha 2 was the peak for me. So no, I wouldn't say Alpha is a weak part of the SF franchise.
Alpha 3 probably got more play (the Import Dreamcast version) because my friends and I liked the huuuuge roster, but the rest of the style changes didn't sit completely well with me.
SF3 never clicked with me, though I do enjoy 3rd Strike somewhat.
SF4 really revived the franchise and I love what it's become (minus Decapre), but before that, Alpha 2 was the peak for me. So no, I wouldn't say Alpha is a weak part of the SF franchise.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Pretty much. Alpha 2 is my favorite SF game ever. Alpha 3 was not as good but still better than III or IV. I didn't like all of the wonky system changes they made in A3 and I found the UI to be garish and the music not as good.
DaSorcerer7
Member
Alpha 3 fo life!!
I guess those are links, but not really what I think of when I say the word. Those are just combos to me. I typically mean linking one normal into another. 3s and A3 have some, but a lot less than A2, CvS2, SF4 series.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Because the graphics and design of the characters is just fucking god awful. There's just one reason right there.
crimzonflame
Member
Alpha 3 soundtrack was awesome.
Shin Johnpv
Member
This is truth.
Mufausa The 3rd
Member
EX doesn't
I was always under the impression that EX was an experimental side project meant to compete with the likes of Virtua Fighter and Tekken rather than a true sequel within the SF canon like Alpha, III and IV.
EX2 Plus had a decent competitive scene. Game.Cho and even Team Spooky still stream matches on twitch to this day.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Ah okay, b/c with that term I tend to be pretty open-ended. They're technically links but a lot of them are definitely combos and involve special moves (stuff like Dudley's c.FP corner juggles being an exception).
The 3 games actually focused more on loose combos and chains than normal links, so a big reason why IV may disappoint me is b/c it goes the latter pretty much at the expense of the former, and I like fighters with lots of options for offense.
I can appreciate that. #thumbsup
\When me and my local crew started playing 3s, we were doing everything way too fast. lol We had to slow down our inputs coming off of the other 2D fighters we played. It wasn't just the amount of animation, but SF3 is in general slower than previous SF games. It was a huge adjustment.
I find that I appreciate it more recently than I did when it came out. It's similar with SF4, which I hated on release, but now am having tons of fun learning. Just looking at each game as its own thing rather than comparing them to everything else.
RoryDropkick
Member
Alpha 2 was damn fun. We got so much playtime out of that game for a good 5-6 years straight. Love it so much that I own Alpha Anthology, Street Fighter Collection on Saturn, and the CPS-2 board.
Alpha 3 though.. not as good, but fun in its own way, and has my girl Karin in it <3
Alpha 3 though.. not as good, but fun in its own way, and has my girl Karin in it <3
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Yeah, that's part of why I reasonably enjoyed EX. I oddly gravitated to SF4 much quicker than SF3, and I actually managed to do most of those one frame link combos in training or whatever that mode was called, but all it took was my first regional tournament to make me realize that I'm one of those people who would have been culled from the herd by a sabertooth tiger 10,000 years ago.
It took me a long time to get over my issues with SF4. Mostly the floaty jumps and the lack of safe block strings. I was getting uppered out of so many things and I just didn't want to bother learning how to deal. SFxT came out, and I started playing that. I like it a lot more than SF4, but there's no local comp. It did help me get over some of the issues I had with SF4, though, so now I'm actually playing it. Hoping to make it out of pools at EVO. That's always my goal. So far I'm like 1-5. lol.
Lupin the Third
Member
The console version has the same super moves and play style as Super Turbo. They replaced Fei Long with Sawada...who kinda-sorta plays like Fei Long. But other than that, the timing, the moveset, the controls...almost just like Super Turbo.
Here's a playthrough of the console version as Cammy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VWXqLQvHx8
I know the arcade version is whack but it's not like much of anybody has [legal] access to that anymore.
This thread is about hated not beloved things my friend.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
There's a reason it bombed and nearly killed the franchise. High level play saved it, but you can't keep an entire fanbase interested with only high level play.
Anything on a CPS3 board was doomed.
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
Alpha isn't mainline lol. How did 7 pages worth of people let OP get away with that?
That looks nothing like Super Turbo.
Seven pages of people not worried about semantics until you posted.
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
I guess, but the point he's making loses credibility when it stops being about main SF games.