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[ryamkajr]

Frankie, wasn't there some kind of issue where 343 could not use classic Halo songs because Marty had composer rights or something?

As the owner of the IP, Microsoft has total and full rights to all of the Halo music.

As an employee of Bungie/Microsoft, all works that Marty composed belong to Microsoft in full.

However, there is a layer of credit and royalties that have to be taken into consideration. Marty is due definite acknowledgement whenever music is used, and he may be done royalties based on use and/or sales. But that is a separate matter and likely did not impact Halo 4+ too much.

 

[NullPointer]

...It's the 14th track.

Do you mean Arrival?

Nope, I mean Revival - with the whole Didact/Forerunner waking-up-from-slumber to do dangerous shit overtones. Its mysterious and dark and ancient and then gets all action chanty. Its the most Halo 4ish to me, especially the bangy crescendo bits near the end.

I've said it since it was first released: compared to any other Halo game, Halo 4's score has absolutely no identity.

I'd agree with this. Its a mix of bits and pieces. A hodge-podge.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

As the owner of the IP, Microsoft has total and full rights to all of the Halo music.

As an employee of Bungie/Microsoft, all works that Marty composed belong to Microsoft in full.

However, there is a layer of credit and royalties that have to be taken into consideration. Marty is due definite acknowledgement whenever music is used, and he may be done royalties based on use and/or sales. But that is a separate matter and likely did not impact Halo 4+ too much.

So if true they cocked up the Halo 4 sountrack for no reason.

 

[ryamkajr]

This is the problem, though. Halo has always had an instantly identifiable theme song. Halo 4 completely got rid of that, and no one track from it really spoke out as a true new theme song.

I've said it since it was first released: compared to any other Halo game, Halo 4's score has absolutely no identity.

I always considered it that since there was no Halo in Halo 4, that the earlier musical themes would be brought back once the Flood was released and the game included a Halo location.

 

[ryamkajr]

So if true they cocked up the Halo 4 sountrack for no reason.

Perfectly valid observation. It may have been a conscious decision to:
1. Be different as it is a new series
2. Try something new for the hell of it
3. Be cheap with royalties

 

[danwarb]

This is the problem, though. Halo has always had an instantly identifiable theme song. Halo 4 completely got rid of that, and no one track from it really spoke out as a true new theme song.

I've said it since it was first released: compared to any other Halo game, Halo 4's score has absolutely no identity.

Aye, the Halo games prior to 4 had variations and elaborations on strong themes throughout. Like a great movie score.

 

[riotous]

Perfectly valid observation. It may have been a conscious decision to:
1. Be different as it is a new series
2. Try something new for the hell of it
3. Be cheap with royalties

Really hard for me to fathom that he has any sort of "royalties" that he'd get anyways.

Bungie/MS didn't license his work, they paid for him to create the work.

If I coded for Halo 2, and some of that code ends up in Halo 3, I don't get royalties for it. I already collected my salary.

They wouldn't even have legal obligation to credit me for the work at all. MS owns the work outright.. unless it was specifically in his contract to be paid royalties, I don't think the fact that it was music matters. Musical artists can sell the rights to their music and then never see royalties again as well, in this case he never owned the rights.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Aye, the Halo games prior to 4 had variations and elaborations on strong themes throughout. Like a great movie score.

Halo 3 Announce Trailer

Shivers down my spine, every time. it's the reason why "One Final Effort" is my favourite track off the Halo 3 OST.

 

[killer rin]

WTF Bungie? You just lost the sound and music guy that has made your soundtracks the Iconic pieces they are. 343i Better jump on this.

 

[The Wise Old Man]

We need to compile a list of actions that could've possibly caused this lunatic move by bungie:

1 coveting bungie execs wife
2 splicing porn music into destiny ost
3 stealing literally everything movable from office
4 keeping actual gregorian monks in cage for ost sampling
5 exposing himself in men's room of cracker barrel
6 repeatedly sending company memos stating Hitler was misunderstood

Short of anything on that list there's no good goddamned reason for this. But hey, as a halo fan boy who's been less than impressed with 343i's work so far I'm interested in Marty coming back to write some kickass spartan theme music.

 

[ryamkajr]

Really hard for me to fathom that he has any sort of "royalties" that he'd get anyways.

Bungie/MS didn't license his work, they paid for him to create the work.

If I coded for Halo 2, and some of that code ends up in Halo 3, I don't get royalties for it. I already collected my salary.

They wouldn't even have legal obligation to credit me for the work at all. MS owns the work outright.. unless it was specifically in his contract to be paid royalties, I don't think the fact that it was music matters. Musical artists can sell the rights to their music and then never see royalties again as well, in this case he never owned the rights.

World is a lot more complicated than that assumption. Composers, including Marty, are members of professional organizations (unions) that enforce pretty strict requirements for composer credits, when they get paid and for what.

While Microsoft has control of the music, he is still listed as composer even in a work for hire agreement, he would still make songwriter's royalties off of a work for hire agreement. His name and PRO still goes on the cue sheet as the composer and he gets royalties from performances of the music.

He is just no longer the controlling entity for that music.

Again, Marty does and will make money off of Halo music now and into the future

 

[ryamkajr]

We need to compile a list of actions that could've possibly caused this lunatic move by bungie:

1 coveting bungie execs wife
2 splicing porn music into destiny ost
3 stealing literally everything movable from office
4 keeping actual gregorian monks in cage for ost sampling
5 exposing himself in men's room of cracker barrel
6 repeatedly sending company memos stating Hitler was misunderstood

Short of anything on that list there's no good goddamned reason for this. But hey, as a halo fan boy who's been less than impressed with 343i's work so far I'm interested in Marty coming back to write some kickass spartan theme music.

7. Wanting Justin Beiber to sing the theme song.

 

[riotous]

World is a lot more complicated than that assumption. Composers, including Marty, are members of professional organizations (unions) that enforce pretty strict requirements for composer credits, when they get paid and for what.

I was going to bring up the Screen Actor's Guilds and other unions. I know it's not always that simple, but it often is.

Curious, do you have any facts about the union Marty is apparently a part of?

 

[NullPointer]

2 splicing porn music into destiny ost

 

[WickedCobra03]

Ya, okay. Bungie. Get back to me when your soundtrack for Destiny is better than Halo 3: ODST. Oh, you fired Marty, well I guess we won't be talking for awhile.

Unless there is something bigger that I am not privy too other than a stupid suit decision,it was a very very dumb move!

 

[ryamkajr]

I was going to bring up the Screen Actor's Guilds and other unions. I know it's not always that simple, but it often is.

Curious, do you have any facts about the union Marty is apparently a part of?

He is definitely a member of ASCAP. I am sure several others (BMI, SCL?).

Probably easier to look up on the release notes for the soundtracks.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Naughty Dog would have one Hell of a catch if they picked him up. I could see him doing incredible work with them.

 

[Tamanon]

Naughty Dog would have one Hell of a catch if they picked him up. I could see him doing incredible work with them.

My god man, do you want Druckmann to hire him only to fire him the next day. That's crazy even for that madman!

 

[riotous]

He is definitely a member of ASCAP. I am sure several others (BMI, SCL?).

Probably easier to look up on the release notes for the soundtracks.

I'm more curious how powerful they are. There's no legal obligation for a company to follow union rules unless they sign a contract with the union.

We had that controversy where voice actors were being hired outside of SAG for videogames years ago. It's partly why we saw a sudden decrease in known actors voicing things in games because SAG got involved (I believe by way of the guy from Star Trek TNG whose name I can't remember.)

I'm related to a member of ASCAP and not everything he does is related to the union. He's free to release work under his own conditions as well, and people are free to hire him under their own conditions. Essentially ASCAP only applies to the music he has copyrighted for himself.

 

[Shrennin]

Spoiler

Please hire Marty, if he still wants to work on Halo.

Seconded. Please do this. Actually, Microsoft could hire him to work on multiple franchises and I'd be happy with it.

 

[ryamkajr]

I'm more curious how powerful they are. There's no legal obligation for a company to follow union rules unless they sign a contract with the union.

We had that controversy where voice actors were being hired outside of SAG for videogames years ago. It's partly why we saw a sudden decrease in known actors voicing things in games because SAG got involved (I believe by way of the guy from Star Trek TNG whose name I can't remember.)

ASCAP is pretty darn powerful in ensuring that license fees and royalties are collected and paid.

These are the same guys that keep impacting SiriusXM, web streaming (Pandora, etc). They are pretty relentless.

Marty will get what he is contractually obligated for re: licensing and royalties.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I personally liked Halo 4's soundtrack. Still felt Halo enough to me and gave the new trilogy its own feel. Would I liked to have heard some classic Halo songs mixed in? Yeah probably. But did I feel disappointed that I didnt? No.

And again, I really don't like Marty as a person because of the way he acts on social media. As I've said before its not his opinions that bother me but the way he expresses them.

 

[riotous]

ASCAP is pretty darn powerful in ensuring that license fees and royalties are collected and paid.

These are the same guys that keep impacting SiriusXM, web streaming (Pandora, etc). They are pretty relentless.

Marty will get what he is contractually obligated for re: licensing and royalties.

But that's only if you hold the copyright to your works though (as I mentioned in my edit.) Which was my original point, I doubt he owns the copyright to his music.

Could obviously be a misplaced doubt, and also possible that with or without copyright it was part of his contract.. still just sort of hard for me to fathom. The games industry has a history of crossing over into other media realms and not paying the same wages as their normal work.

 

[SmackAttack]

Wow, wonder why. One of the best parts of the Destiny videos thus far has been the music. Would I be right to assume his work is done since the game is out in September? This is pretty huge news, wonder what's next for him.

 

[Gorillaz]

Naughty Dog would have one Hell of a catch if they picked him up. I could see him doing incredible work with them.

It would be interesting hearing a indiana jones scope of a soundtrack for Uncharted 4

 

[The Librarian]

Ya, okay. Bungie. Get back to me when your soundtrack for Destiny is better than Halo 3: ODST. Oh, you fired Marty, well I guess we won't be talking for awhile.

Unless there is something bigger that I am not privy too other than a stupid suit decision,it was a very very dumb move!

How can you say it was a dumb move when you don't know all the facts?

Not saying it was a good thing that Marty was fired, but a lot of people are jumping on Bungie when they don't know much, if anything, about the situation.

 

[ryamkajr]

But that's only if you hold the copyright to your works though (as I mentioned in my edit.) Which was my original point, I doubt he owns the copyright to his music.

Could obviously be a misplaced doubt, and also possible that with or without copyright it was part of his contract.. still just sort of hard for me to fathom. The games industry has a history of crossing over into other media realms and not paying the same wages as their normal work.

My last reply on this.

He does not own the copyright - Microsoft does. He owns the songwriting (composer) credits. Microsoft can license the music out however they want - toilet paper commercials, Halo branded condoms, porn music, whatever. They collect money for the license and use of the license. They are required to disburse royalties to the songwriter based on the specific use. At a minimum - Marty would get royalties from sheet music sales and from public performances of the music. Less guaranteed based on contracts, he might also get per unit sales (e.g., for each album and or game) but that is less set in stone as opposed to the composer credits/royalties.

e.g.:
HALO THEME MJOLNIR MIX

Writers
O DONNELL MARTIN MONROE
SALVATORI MICHAEL C

Publishers / Administrators
MICROSOFT MUSIC PUBLISHING
MICROSOFT CORP
1 MICROSOFT WAY
ATTN: LILY KOHN
REDMOND, WA 98052 US

 

[dhlt25]

I have no interest in console FPS and have never play a Halo game, still when you say game music, the halo theme song is one of the first thing that come to my mind and just reciting the theme song in my head makes me pump for some action. This might not be the best decision by Bungie

 

[feel]

LOL

Dude enough with the antics and shenanigans, you're the chosen one, grab Marty and Griesemer and get Halo back on track.

 

[Fuchsdh]

This is the problem, though. Halo has always had an instantly identifiable theme song. Halo 4 completely got rid of that, and no one track from it really spoke out as a true new theme song.

I've said it since it was first released: compared to any other Halo game, Halo 4's score has absolutely no identity.

It's got a pretty predominant leitmotif throughout. Expecting a single track to supplant the dundundunDUNNNN that's been ingrained into your brain like Pavlov's jingle isn't going to happen.

 

[RoKKeR]

Halo 3 Announce Trailer

Shivers down my spine, every time. it's the reason why "One Final Effort" is my favourite track off the Halo 3 OST.

Halo 3 is undoubtedly his greatest score, followed closely by ODST.

Halo 3 defined my teenage years and is what really got me into gaming, and I was so into Marty's music at the time.

Popping in the Halo 3 disc and hearing the main menu music just overwhelms me with nostalgia every time.

 

[Razzer]

I'd prefer if Marty became a free agent rather than an in-house composer tbh. Allow him to work on a wide variety of genres and settings, experiment with styles. If he went back to Halo the music would be great but it would likely be similar to his previous Halo work. Imagine him working on an Assassins creed game, for instance. Take inspiration from the period of history. That's the kinda thing I'd like a man of Marty's talent doing.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I wouldn't mind Marty getting a role at Microsoft or Sony where he gets to work on music for whatever games he chooses. A track here and there with one title being his entirely. Maybe he oversees the work of the other inhouse music guys as a producer and gives his input.

 

[Hubble]

He also composed this classic Flintstone commercial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTCcrXf2buQ

Maybe he'll be working on his famed Halo again after all.....

 

[Deku Tree]

If the Destiny score is not mind blowing,
then we have our answer.

 

[Justified]

World is a lot more complicated than that assumption. Composers, including Marty, are members of professional organizations (unions) that enforce pretty strict requirements for composer credits, when they get paid and for what.

While Microsoft has control of the music, he is still listed as composer even in a work for hire agreement, he would still make songwriter's royalties off of a work for hire agreement. His name and PRO still goes on the cue sheet as the composer and he gets royalties from performances of the music.

He is just no longer the controlling entity for that music.

Again, Marty does and will make money off of Halo music now and into the future

He is right though. Beyonce is a great example. About 95% of her songs are ghost written, 60% of those only list her name in the credits because she outright bought the rights to them

 

[PNut]

His work on the ODST soundtrack was my favorite. 343 hire this man tomorrow!

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I am not really sure what to say or think. Over the last day I have tried writing a reply to this topic but had to delete it every time because, gods knows why.

Halo to me was way more than a video game to me, and the music was a uniquely part of that. Not a game that was heavy on story, but I feel that Halo, more than any other video game I have played my entire life, told it's story through the audio-visual moments.
For me it's the interactive text book example on how to do sound design.
Example would be that moment on the second level upon landing on Halo. You make your way up to some structures, clear the Covernant, and a few dropships come in with a Warthog. As you enter the Warthog, this psuedo-tribal music starts playing with bombastic drums, electric guitar riffs and an intense beat. This is a sci-fi world, and already I feel the music is breaking all the conventions I know about music in this genre.

Suffice to say, the chanting monks, the haunting melodies of the desolate wastelands. I loved it all, and still do to this day.
My earliest memories are those of Koji Kondo, and the gaming composers I have listened the most too in my life is Harry-Gregson Williams (Metal Gear Solid series) and Jeremy Soule (KOTOR, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Guild Wars 1 & 2) and Jesper Kyd (Hitman, Freedom Fighters, Assassins Creed 2) but Marty's music.


This is a sad day for Bungie. Really. I've been a Bungie fan since the early Mac days with Marathon. I am super sad about this. Really, a lot more than I should be. I am not one to get sad when my favorite bands break up - After all, these things happens for a reason, and it might be why I am sad about this. I don't understand what happened, so my brain think it could have been avoided.
On the bright side, we got many good years with his music, and maybe he will find another place to keep making music.

 

[93xfan]

Whoaaaaaaa. I think Marty is a total douche lord for using his influence to spread anti-abortion rhetoric on Twitter, but at the same time, the man is a talented genius! God damn. I'll really miss his piece of that Bungie magic, no matter how much I think his politics suck.

Edit : To clarify, the tweets are year old, maybe more. I wasn't trying to imply that the tweets were what got him fired! Sorry for the confusion.

The man took a stand for what he believes in, knowing it would be unpopular. I admire his courage. Anyway, back on topic, I'm very, very sad to see him go. His soundtracks unbelievable!

I own every single one.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

You know what? Halo is fine with Neil Davidge. EA should get Marty for that Star Wars game Amy Hennig is doing. That'd be beyond epic.

I am sorry, but some franchises needs to have the same composers that worked from there in the beginning. Everyone always think about that composer when talking about a certain franchise.

Final Fantasy: Uematsu
Star Wars: John Williams
Elder Scrolls: Jeremy Soule
Zelda: Koji Kondo
Metroid: Yamamoto
Castlevania: Yamane
Metal Gear: Hibino
Dragon Quest: Sugiyama
Kingdom Hearts: Shimomura

It feels wrong to put new composers and discard the old composer, because they made that franchise also big with their compositions.

That's why I can't stand the music on Assassin's Creed anymore. Jesper Kyd did wonders to the series, just to be replaced by one of Hans Zimmer's talentless puppets.

Too many secrets Marty.

Now I have the perfect excuse to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWQtI_Zh38Y

I love u.

 

[Tonza]

That's why I can't stand the music on Assassin's Creed music. Jesper Kyd did wonders to the series, just to be replaced by one of Hans Zimmer's talentless puppets.

Yes. Venice Rooftops was so perfect for the sequence. (The one that left the biggest impression on me) The whole soundtrack was great.

 

[GCX]

I wouldn't mind Marty getting a role at Microsoft or Sony where he gets to work on music for whatever games he chooses. A track here and there with one title being his entirely. Maybe he oversees the work of the other inhouse music guys as a producer and gives his input.

Sounds a lot like Koji Kondo's position at Nintendo.

 

[Dash Kappei]

...Sigh.

 

[Authority]

Interesting.

Also, look at this BBC news post:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27053860

It states:
In an interview about the tie-up for Edge magazine last year, Mr O'Donnell commented:

"It's hard for me - and some of the guys get impatient about it, like 'Hey Marty, quick just write an iconic theme and show it to us'.

"But that's not what I did with Halo. I like to write music... [and] we have this really great start on many, many pieces of music that all seem to work together well."

Sounds like he was having a bit of a rough time at Bungie.

Direct Source: http://www.bungie.net/7_A-serious-and-long-post-about-Marty/en/Forum/Post?id=64436082#referred-Bungie (Bungie)

 

[Doublesith]

Bungie confirms O'Donnell's music is still in the game:

Speaking to Eurogamer in an interview at Bungie's Bellevue, Washington headquarters yesterday, chief operating officer Pete Parsons said Destiny was "close to shipping", and O'Donnell's music remained in the game.

"I think the Bungie fanbase is going to look forward to hearing Marty's music, Mike Salvatori's music, C. Paul's music and Paul McCartney's music in the game," Parsons said. "That's going to be exciting for people. It's going to be a great, fantastic experience."

As Bungie audio director O'Donnell worked with long-term collaborator Mike Salvatori on Destiny's music, as well as in-house sound designer and composer C. Paul Johnson. Musician Paul McCartney collaborated with O'Donnell on the game's soundtrack.

While Parsons was unable to go into the reasons for O'Donnell's departure, he denied it would impact negatively on Destiny, adding much of the game had already been completed.

"I believe people will be transported not just by the activities and the stories within the Destiny universe but by the sights and the wonderful sounds and music," he said. "We have a fantastic team. We're pretty close to shipping. There's a lot of polish left to do, lots of tweaking and tuning, but a lot is already complete."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-17-bungie-insists-destiny-remains-on-track-despite-composer-exit

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Bungie confirms O'Donnell's music is still in the game:



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-04-17-bungie-insists-destiny-remains-on-track-despite-composer-exit

"Much of the game had already been completed"

Yeah, but isn't Destiny supposed to be a 10 year project? Surely they haven't composed the music for all ten years?

I mean it might be pretty jarring to go from Destiny with O'Donnell to Destiny 2.0 and on without him. Especially if the soundtrack for the first game turns out to be epic predominately because of O'Donnell.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

"Much of the game had already been completed"

Yeah, but isn't Destiny supposed to be a 10 year project? Surely they haven't composed the music for all ten years?

I mean it might be pretty jarring to go from Destiny with O'Donnell to Destiny 2.0 and on without him. Especially if the soundtrack for the first game turns out to be epic predominately because of O'Donnell.

Is it possible an understudy was producing better tracks?

 

[riotous]

"Much of the game had already been completed"

Yeah, but isn't Destiny supposed to be a 10 year project? Surely they haven't composed the music for all ten years?

I mean it might be pretty jarring to go from Destiny with O'Donnell to Destiny 2.0 and on without him. Especially if the soundtrack for the first game turns out to be epic predominately because of O'Donnell.

Well they had multiple composers / artists working on Destiny including his long-time partner who is still there (at this point.)

It's entirely possible Marty's output was lagging behind the other's as well. I mean, he was fired.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Is it possible an understudy was producing better tracks?

Well they had multiple composers / artists working on Destiny including his long-time partner who is still there (at this point.)

It's entirely possible Marty's output was lagging behind the other's as well. I mean, he was fired.

Both of these are definitely plausible.

However I was merely trying to address the quote that I replied to in my post. They seem to be trying to assuage the fears of fans of O'Donnell by telling them that Destiny will be fine because most of the work has already been done when that isn't necessarily the case if Destiny is indeed a ten year project.

The only people who would be really upset over this are people who love his work and looked forward to his music in Destiny. While the fact that his music will be in the first installment is awesome, I think that people may be forgetting that Destiny is supposed to be a ten year project.

 

[riotous]

Both of these are definitely plausible.

However I was merely trying to address the quote that I replied to in my post.

I understood. I was just saying that Marty's work is some fraction of the first Destiny's audio. If that fraction is low, then it won't be jarring to move on to the other Destiny DLC's/Sequels/etc.

Especially if his partner sticks around.