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[casinoman921]

Nintendo will make another one. It'd be kind of silly giving up one handheld after the DS, the most successful in history. They just have to be smart about the next one, making sure hardware is cheaper out of the gate and lower software prices. This generation proved premium-priced handhelds and software can't compete to mobile.

 

[Joe_Incognito]

Sony will stop producing dedicated handhelds and will instead license their PS Now service to iOS and Android devices. They'll make a fortune.

Nintendo will produce a tablet.

Android portables will become a thing. They'll be loved by the homebrew community.

Tablet and mobile gaming will dominate the lives of younger games the way that Nintendo once controlled the same market.

 

[AniHawk]

i hope the next nintendo handheld borrows more from the philosophy behind the game boy than the psp. that was the biggest issue with the 3ds, aside from brand name confusion. i'm also hoping that the ease of development with two like systems next gen doesn't mean they're making increasingly complex games for their handheld. simpler experiences are more welcome on the small screen.

i don't think sony follows up with the vita. they don't know the handheld space that well, or how to make small games work. tearaway was the closest they've ever gotten.

 

[Longsword]

They will be an enthusiast niche, but a profitable niche. There is room for one successful device, most likely Nintendo one.

Japan most likely gives us a glimpse of the future. Smartphone games (not even all of mobile) is now 50% of of the entire games market (PC, console, handhelds, mobile, hardware, software all put together), at 5.4 billion US$ a year. See the data here.

I don't think the developers aside from niche specialists will be able to justify ignoring that. Hopefully the best games will be multi-platform, both handheld and mobile.

 

[Anth0ny]

No room in the market anymore for two dedicated handheld gaming devices, sorry Sony.

Nintendo will keep going as long as their handhelds have Pokemon, Mario and Mario Kart. Unfortunately, it'll probably continue to lose relevance vs. mobile games as the years go on. There is no convincing parents that a dedicated gaming handheld with $40 games makes sense financially when they can give their kids an old phone with a bunch of free/99 cent games.

i hope the next nintendo handheld borrows more from the philosophy behind the game boy than the psp. that was the biggest issue with the 3ds, aside from brand name confusion. i'm also hoping that the ease of development with two like systems next gen doesn't mean they're making increasingly complex games for their handheld. simpler experiences are more welcome on the small screen.

i agree with this SO hard. let the console games stay on the console. their next handheld should have one screen, multi touch, capable of playing all the mobile shit games, but also a d-pad/buttons for the real games. I'm not even sure if a circle pad is necessary, honestly. Vita-power is definitely not neccesary.

Pokemon, 2D Mario, Animal Crossing... that can stay on the handhelds. 3D Mario, Kid Icarus and Smash Bros? Buy the Nintendo console for those experiences. I think the almost non-existent gap between 3DS and Wii U when it comes to power (in the eyes of Jane Walmart) and software uniqueness (Mario Kart 7/8, NSMB2/U, Smash 3DS/Wii U, 3D Land/3D World) is the reason why Wii U is struggling so badly. Why would you buy a Wii U for Nintendo games when 3DS is available, and cheaper? They need to differentiate their two pieces of hardware. Though it seems like Iwata is trying to make them completely identical (ala iphone/ipad) going forward... meh.

 

[AniHawk]

No room in the market anymore for two dedicated handheld gaming devices, sorry Sony.

Nintendo will keep going as long as their handhelds have Pokemon, Mario and Mario Kart. Unfortunately, it'll probably continue to lose relevance vs. mobile games as the years go on. There is no convincing parents that a dedicated gaming handheld with $40 games makes sense financially when they can give their kids an old phone with a bunch of free/99 cent games.

i'd love to see what a $100 single-screen handheld would do that had mostly 2d games. if they could get the costs of development down, and figure out a cheaper medium than cards (although i do kinda like that in 2014 we still have a non-disc medium in gaming), $20-30 games could be a regular thing.

 

[shinra-bansho]

What's the market for a $100 handheld that only plays 2D games at $30 a pop, when a hand-me-down tablet/smart device one already has is free and has free games?

Someone said earlier in the thread, mobile has eaten up the casual, it's in the process of eating up the children's market. The enthusiast is ultimately what will remain - is what you're describing a suitable value proposition.

They will be an enthusiast niche, but a profitable niche.

The problem with it being a profitable niche market is that it needs to be able to essentially sustain Nintendo's total operations, which have been built upon having viable footholds in both the home and handheld markets, and have been built upon greater margins and greater volumes.
Handheld games cost more to make now too. So they're selling less hardware at lower margin, and consequently less software also at lower margin.

(Assuming one doesn't expect Nintendo to make a particularly significant recovery in the home market, which frankly is the most likely situation at this point.)

Then one needs to consider whether it can still be a profitable market worth pursuing in the long run. At current trend we're looking at the handheld market being ~20M handheld units lifetime in the US market this cycle. With probable further decline next cycle.

 

[AniHawk]

What's the market for a $100 handheld that only plays 2D games at $30 a pop, when a hand-me-down tablet/smart device one already has is free and has free games?

i dunno, but there's a market for a $150-200 handheld that plays games at $40 a pop when a hand-me-down tablet smart/device one already has is free and has free games.

the original appeal to handheld gaming was that it was a sort of bonus for your everyday life. pick up and play. that idea morphed into a premium product over the last decade with increasingly more expensive hardware and software. dedicated handheld devices are not premium products just by their nature. that's why most of the really high-end ones, for their eras, have such a hard time reaching a wider market.

 

[Aurean_Mentat]

Honestly, the PSVita's biggest problem is that it doesn't count where it matters most: exclusive experiences.

Hear me out here. If you take away remastered versions of old games (Persona 4 Golden), PSP/PS1 games (which you can get other places), cross buy titles (games you can also get on the PS3), and PSN games that you can get other places (PS3/PSP/PC), what does the Vita bring to the table?

The larger pool of games/consoles you have access to from the above list, the less a Vita tends to appeal. Yes, the Vita is great for playing RPGs/old games on the go, but then, so is the 3DS. And the 3DS has enough exclusive experiences/games on it right now to more than justify the purchase for a lot of people.

As far as handhelds in general, they will always have a place as long as there are long lines at the theater, the DMV, on long car trips... basically, places where I have to wait more than 5 minutes, as cell phone games just don't cut it (most of the nice ones either have a large upfront cost [Square Enix, I'm looking at you here] or tend to bug you about giving them money, which bothers me).

 

[shinra-bansho]

i dunno, but there's a market for a $150-200 handheld that plays games at $40 a pop when a hand-me-down tablet smart/device one already has is free and has free games.

There's a market for a dedicated device that plays more complicated 3D games at $40 a pop. That's not necessarily a sign that a cheaper dedicated device that plays simpler 2D titles for a similar software pricing structure is ready and waiting.

At current tracking the 3DS will not outsell the PSP; it will only just match the PSP in Japan. Europe as always the question mark. In global shipments, it will probably fail to match the PSP. The also ran system of last gen whose appeal lay in "console-like gaming" on the go. There's something significant in that, I think, cont. below.*

the original appeal to handheld gaming was that it was a sort of bonus for your everyday life. pick up and play. that idea morphed into a premium product over the last decade with increasingly more expensive hardware and software. dedicated handheld devices are not premium products just by their nature. that's why most of the really high-end ones, for their eras, have such a hard time reaching a wider market.

Smart devices largely serve as suitable substitute for what you're describing. It's not like we're back in the days of the original handheld.

*I'm of the opinion that the 3DS as it has sold and is selling now has lost the casual market and a sizeable chunk of the younger gaming market, and will continue to lose these consumers, but has managed to somewhat offset that decline by subsuming the PSP's market. Leaving the PSV dead on arrival.

So is a dedicated device that tries to offer what people already have access to, simpler 2D titles, even at a lower price than the "premium" $150 devices now, the way to go? I would rather think that in order to at least maintain the market they do have now they need to continue to offer their point of differentiation: superior handheld gaming, more complex gameplay, better visual output, in order to justify the purchase of an additional device.

To me, it seems somewhat analogous to a camera maker putting out a dedicated cheap low end camera with limited functionality.

 

[defferoo]

But that's not what iOS and android do. He specifically calls them out as platforms he wants to emulate. So maybe more like iPhone and iPad? And a game-capable apple tv too.

technically that's the model Apple has followed. iPads and iPhones tend to share the same core tech, except the CPU in the iPad is clocked higher and the GPU is more powerful (additional cores) with higher memory bandwidth to support the higher resolution screen. Of course, with the latest iPad Air, Apple decided to forgo the different GPU because they thought PowerVR6 was good enough.

I'd imagine Nintendo using this model to basically merge their handheld and console software lineup while still giving them flexibility with regards to their hardware strategy (merge into hybrid device, or launch two devices with different levels of power, or even launch more than two). When that happens, hopefully we will finally see the end of Nintendo first-party droughts.

That said, I hope they don't continue down the path of PPC CPU... I know they've invested a lot in the architecture, but without updates to the instruction set, it is severely lacking in certain ways (floating-point performance, SIMD). They could probably supplement some of it with the GPU, but why do that when ARM CPUs can provide you with that functionality off-the-shelf and are starting to rival low-end x86 CPUs in performance? Just use ARM, it'll scale to the "high-end" console as well as the "low-end" handheld. They already use super old ARM chips in their handhelds, it's time to upgrade. /rant

 

[AniHawk]

There's a market for a dedicated device that plays more complicated 3D games at $40 a pop.

and i'm running under the assumption that everything about this is a detriment to the dedicated handheld market.

At current tracking the 3DS will not outsell the PSP; it will only just match the PSP in Japan. Europe as always the question mark. In global shipments, it will probably fail to match the PSP. The also ran system of last gen whose appeal lay in "console-like gaming" on the go. There's something significant in that, I think, cont. below.*
Smart devices largely serve as suitable substitute for what you're describing. It's not like we're back in the days of the original handheld.

*I'm of the opinion that the 3DS as it has sold and is selling now has lost the casual market and a sizeable chunk of the younger gaming market, and will continue to lose these consumers, but has managed to somewhat offset that decline by subsuming the PSP's market. Leaving the PSV dead on arrival.

So is a dedicated device that tries to offer what people already have access to, simpler 2D titles, even at a lower price than the "premium" $150 devices now, the way to go? I would rather think that in order to at least maintain the market they do have now they need to continue to offer their point of differentiation: superior handheld gaming, more complex gameplay, better visual output, in order to justify the purchase of an additional device.

To me, it seems somewhat analogous to a camera maker putting out a dedicated cheap low end camera with limited functionality.

this is never what handheld gaming was about though. the more complex it gets, the more it turns off customers. weird shapes, poor battery life, and console-like games are never part of the appeal. i think the 3ds succeeded largely in spite of doing everything wrong, not because some of the psp market was secretly wanting a nintendo handheld the entire time.

 

[shinra-bansho]

and i'm running under the assumption that everything about this is a detriment to the dedicated handheld market.

this is never what handheld gaming was about though. the more complex it gets, the more it turns off customers. weird shapes, poor battery life, and console-like games are never part of the appeal. i think the 3ds succeeded largely in spite of doing everything wrong, not because some of the psp market was secretly wanting a nintendo handheld the entire time.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing. That's not where the origins of handheld gaming lay. That's not the original sell.

But what I'm saying is that the changed/changing market may mean that that is the only market remaining for a dedicated device. Because the original sell is being served by other devices. Ergo, I don't know if next go around by going low end and trying to compete head-to-head with the simplicity of devices everyone has already is going to be the solution.

 

[FStubbs]

As long as longer gameplay sessions suck down a phone's battery quickly and brutally, there will be a need for a second gaming device.

Smartphones have gored other single purpose devices once they got good enough at that particular purpose (cameras, e-readers, PDAs, mp3 players, etc). The key for Nintendo to keep their handheld viable is to create good, exciting software only found on their system, at an affordable price ($30 should be the max) and good, quality, well priced hardware with a long battery life. (The 3DS was their first handheld to fail in this regard).

Mobile tech is increasing to the point that by the time the next Nintendo handheld comes out, their hope would be that they could release a handheld a little more powerful than Vita, charge $150 (thus maximizing profits), with a chipset efficient enough to get back to 10+ hours of battery life. A device that would be far superior to any smartphone for gaming.

The smartphone market won't grow forever. For example, is there any real reason (other than from gadget geeks) to upgrade from a Galaxy S4 to a Galaxy S5? These things are going to hit the wall very soon. Mobile gaming? How sustainable are these F2P whale hunting ventures? Why have we accepted that smart phone gaming is an ever increasing, unstoppable curve? (Sorry, tangent)

On the software side, put more effort into old school Mario and Zelda. Lower the barrier of entry for indies. However, allowing Android to run on the device would kill it - any devs at that point would just target Android.

Nintendo in the console market is a little more tricky. The biggest problem they have there is that the big Western third parties hate their guts and wouldn't support them even if their device was more powerful than PS4/Xbone - they'd just invent some new excuse for not supporting them. Nintendo built the Wii U stupidly thinking that companies like EA were on board (remember the "unprecedented partnership"?)

They have to go into their next console first with the idea of something that they can support by themselves if they have to. Profitability has to be their focus. "At the end of the day, even if we're third, did we make money?" Wii U did not have that focus with its expensive gamepad and other features the market decided were useless. Power is not nearly as important here as ease of development. For controllers? The N64 and Gamecube had complicated controllers and sold like garbage. The Wii had a simple controller and sold like crazy. The Wii U has an even more complicated controller and is selling worse than the Vita at times. The path is clear there - go back to the Wii's controller, improve the motion tracking, and keep things simple. You can sell the Wii U pad separately for your new box for BC.

Make sure their development teams are ready and able to crank out software for this machine. But the software again is the key. Look back over the last 3 generations at the games that actually SOLD and why. This means more Metroid Prime and less Metroid: Other M. More Link Between Worlds and less Skyward Sword. Separating 2D from 3D Mario and advancing both franchises instead of trying to fuse them into something nobody wants. Treating their best franchise (Wii Sports) as a top franchise instead of breaking it up and selling it over the e-Shop.

This will take time. They should ride out both the 3DS and Wii U for the next few years while they get all of this in place behind the scenes. Both platforms suffered from being a year or two too early. (Wii U would likely have been profitable if Nintendo had used their market leader position to wait a bit longer until AMD came knocking on their door like they allegedly did for Sony and Microsoft). Use the Wii U to get used to HD development, and the 3DS as a cash cow. Get back to profitability and build an ecosystem of indies and Japanese third parties that will support your box.

 

[The Maverick]

As long as longer gameplay sessions suck down a phone's battery quickly and brutally, there will be a need for a second gaming device.

Smartphones have gored other single purpose devices once they got good enough at that particular purpose (cameras, e-readers, PDAs, mp3 players, etc). The key for Nintendo to keep their handheld viable is to create good, exciting software only found on their system, at an affordable price ($30 should be the max) and good, quality, well priced hardware with a long battery life. (The 3DS was their first handheld to fail in this regard).

Mobile tech is increasing to the point that by the time the next Nintendo handheld comes out, their hope would be that they could release a handheld a little more powerful than Vita, charge $150 (thus maximizing profits), with a chipset efficient enough to get back to 10+ hours of battery life. A device that would be far superior to any smartphone for gaming.

The smartphone market won't grow forever. For example, is there any real reason (other than from gadget geeks) to upgrade from a Galaxy S4 to a Galaxy S5? These things are going to hit the wall very soon. Mobile gaming? How sustainable are these F2P whale hunting ventures? Why have we accepted that smart phone gaming is an ever increasing, unstoppable curve? (Sorry, tangent)

On the software side, put more effort into old school Mario and Zelda. Lower the barrier of entry for indies. However, allowing Android to run on the device would kill it - any devs at that point would just target Android.

The 3DS battery life is atrocious, smartphone gaming isn't too bad compared to that. Also, I don't get how you cite that advancements in mobile chipsets and efficiency will push Nintendo to 10+ hours of battery life without giving the same benefits to smartphones. There's nothing Nintendo can do at this point to balloon the market again. Even if they came in with an app store, f2p games, well designed hardware, Apple/Android will have them beat on all those points.

The only hope is to provide quality experiences like you said, but at $30? You can forget it. The handheld market is being eaten away at, and it's worse for Nintendo because that's their bread and butter. I believe their next outing is going to struggle to break 45 million, and sales in the US are going to continue to slide. And if controller shells ever become widespread, then the death of traditional handheld gaming will come even faster.

Also, smartphones are approaching saturation in the US, but emerging countries are still a largely untapped market. And Japan and China still have a lot of room to grow. Not to mention that owners cycle through phones every 2-3 years. What do you think is going to happen with the hand me downs? Kids are going to have them, grow up with free to play games, and Nintendo loses out on another future customer.

 

[SerodD]

Anywhere Nintendo wants them to go, since they'll probably have the market for themselfs next gen.

 

[outunderthestars]

Anywhere Nintendo wants them to go, since they'll probably have the market for themselfs next gen.

The question then becomes: what market? How much of a market will be left for $40 portable games on dedicated hardware?

 

[SerodD]

The 3DS battery life is atrocious, smartphone gaming isn't too bad compared to that. Also, I don't get how you cite that advancements in mobile chipsets and efficiency will push Nintendo to 10+ hours of battery life without giving the same benefits to smartphones. There's nothing Nintendo can do at this point to balloon the market again. Even if they came in with an app store, f2p games, well designed hardware, Apple/Android will have them beat on all those points.

The only hope is to provide quality experiences like you said, but at $30? You can forget it. The handheld market is being eaten away at, and it's worse for Nintendo because that's their bread and butter. I believe their next outing is going to struggle to break 45 million, and sales in the US are going to continue to slide. And if controller shells ever become widespread, then the death of traditional handheld gaming will come even faster.

Also, smartphones are approaching saturation in the US, but emerging countries are still a largely untapped market. And Japan and China still have a lot of room to grow. Not to mention that owners cycle through phones every 2-3 years. What do you think is going to happen with the hand me downs? Kids are going to have them, grow up with free to play games, and Nintendo loses out on another future customer.

You can't buy a comparable smartphone with the 2DS for the same price, and that's what Nintendo should aim from, parents will prefer to buy they're kids a 200-150 4DS made of Nintendium over an expensive smartphone, also I'll never understand why the hell someone would give a kid an Iphone or and Androidphone to play games in the first place.

 

[outunderthestars]

You can't buy a comparable smartphone with the 2DS for the same price, and that's what Nintendo should aim from, parents will prefer to buy they're kids a 200-150 4DS made of Nintendium over an expensive smartphone, also I'll never understand why the hell someone would give a kid an Iphone or and Androidphone to play games in the first place.

You can buy Moto G's for $99. And do you really not understand why a parent would rather give their kids a device with free or close to free games instead of $40 carts?

 

[jcm]

You can't buy a comparable smartphone with the 2DS for the same price, and that's what Nintendo should aim from, parents will prefer to buy they're kids a 200-150 4DS made of Nintendium over an expensive smartphone, also I'll never understand why the hell someone would give a kid an Iphone or and Androidphone to play games in the first place.

You can buy a tablet for 150-200, too, and load it up with F2P and 99 cent games. Or give your kid the phone you're replacing for yourself and it's free. Anecdotal time: I went on a trip with my wife's 4th and 5th grade students. She teaches at a high poverty urban school, so nearly all of the students are poor. But probably a third of them had android devices. I didn't see a single PS or DS.

 

[outunderthestars]

You can buy a tablet for 150-200, too, and load it up with F2P and 99 cent games. Or give your kid the phone you're replacing for yourself and it's free.

Yep. Every drug store in America has $60 -$89 Android tablets which are good enough for kids.

 

[SerodD]

The question then becomes: what market? How much of a market will be left for $40 portable games on dedicated hardware?

If they're smart they will probably go for a cheaper model, cheaper console 180 at launch max, 150 when possible, sell games for cheaper.

They created an interesting model with steel driver that could work, every game is free to play to a ceartain extent, pay 10-30 bucks to unlock the full experience, also they're loalyst model could work to make parents buy more games if it's done right.

After this I think all they can do is go heavy on marketing, make kids want it.

 

[Gaogaogao]

basically nintendo should make the vita, and then support it.

 

[Sinecat]

Fuck. Playing on mobile is like using a less accurate mouse without a keyboard. Is this really the future?

 

[Gaogaogao]

Fuck. Playing on mobile is like using a less accurate mouse without a keyboard. Is this really the future?

I fucking hope not. nintendo better be there for me.

 

[SerodD]

You can buy a tablet for 150-200, too, and load it up with F2P and 99 cent games. Or give your kid the phone you're replacing for yourself and it's free. Anecdotal time: I went on a trip with my wife's 4th and 5th grade students. She teaches at a high poverty urban school, so nearly all of the students are poor. But probably a third of them had android devices. I didn't see a single PS or DS.

That's intereting, I live in Portugal so things are a bit diferent around here, there aren't any tablets for the price of the 2DS around here, and the few smartphones have a really crappy look to them, but I have to say I still don't understand why a parent would prefer to give acess to a smartphone instead of a handheld to they're children, I can undestand the price diference in games could be a factor, but there's a lot of other factors especialy the content they'll be exposed having acess to a smartphone, I guess there's bad parents everywhere.

 

[Aeana]

I can't stand handhelds and their usage today is totally lost on me. People seem to want a second, weaker device just so they can sit at home next to a more powerful device and play it. I don't see the logic. This whole craze of wanting more devices for the sake of having access to more games is so strange. I mean, a lot the games on 3DS have better versions on Wii and Wii U. There's just no point unless you're going to actually play away from home.

"But plenty of people do play on the go".

Fair enough, but what adult has enough time outside of home (barring they're not in a hotel or public transportation or something) to justify dragging a full fledged video game around? Mobile games make more sense here, sorry, and the numbers seem to back me up on this.

Somehow you've completely neglected the fact that handhelds have exclusive games and there is no other way to play them other than using said device.

 

[EMT0]

If we were to lose handheld gaming, which franchises do you think are guaranteed to be lost? A bit of a spinoff question to the OP, but I feel like it's also related/relevant.

My bets are Ace Attorney, 999, Devil Survivor, and Soul Sacrifice.

 

[outunderthestars]

That's intereting, I live in Portugal so things are a bit diferent around here, there aren't any tablets for the price of the 2DS around here, and the few smartphones have a really crappy look to them, but I have to say I still don't understand why a parent would prefer to give acess to a smartphone instead of a handheld to they're children, I can undestand the price diference in games could be a factor, but there's a lot of other factors especialy the content they'll be exposed having acess to a smartphone, I guess there's bad parents everywhere.

You can buy A Kindle Fire tablet for $10 less than a 2DS That has 7" HD screen, much more utility, and has robust parental controls and even has a $3 a month Netflix styled subscription that gives you kid access to a rotating selection of games, apps, book, and movies with no ads or in app purchases.

Wrap your head around that for a moment. $36 for a year of games, movies, apps and books, or $40 for a single 3DS game. Not to mention the large amount of free content that is available on the Kindle Store.

And again, the Kindle's have a much more robust prarental control feature than any handheld or console has ever had.

If we were to lose handheld gaming, which franchises do you think are guaranteed to be lost? A bit of a spinoff question to the OP, but I feel like it's also related/relevant.

My bets are Ace Attorney, 999, Devil Survivor, and Soul Sacrifice.

Most of those would work perfectly well on a touch screen device.

 

[SerodD]

I can't stand handhelds and their usage today is totally lost on me. People seem to want a second, weaker device just so they can sit at home next to a more powerful device and play it. I don't see the logic. This whole craze of wanting more devices for the sake of having access to more games is so strange. I mean, a lot the games on 3DS have better versions on Wii and Wii U. There's just no point unless you're going to actually play away from home.

"But plenty of people do play on the go".

Fair enough, but what adult has enough time outside of home (barring they're not in a hotel or public transportation or something) to justify dragging a full fledged video game around? Mobile games make more sense here, sorry, and the numbers seem to back me up on this.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way, it great to keep kids out of your way for an extended amount of time (as long as the battery lasts) when you're away form home, and also it's great for someone like me who spends most of his time at the university and can't just bring a ps4 or a wii U with him, so the 3DS is an excelent device to play around when I have nothing to do or when I'm on the Bus/Train, also my Smartphone doesn't have enough battery to whistand a full day of use + some hours of gaming.

One thing that is ceartain that went wrong this gen is the battery life, both Vita's and 3Ds's battery life are crap compared to something like the GBA SP, that something they should try to improve next gen.

 

[Gaogaogao]

If we were to lose handheld gaming, which franchises do you think are guaranteed to be lost? A bit of a spinoff question to the OP, but I feel like it's also related/relevant.

My bets are Ace Attorney, 999, Devil Survivor, and Soul Sacrifice.

Shin Megami Tensei is on moble, even if it makes more sense with real buttons than fake buttons. turn based games that don't require dexterity are tolerable on a touch screen if you draw the ui properly, like they do with final fantasy.

ace attorney and 999 are already there too, without issue.

 

[SerodD]

You can buy A Kindle Fire tablet for $10 less than a 2DS That has 7" HD screen, much more utility, and has robust parental controls and even has a $3 a month Netflix styled subscription that gives you kid access to a rotating selection of games, apps, book, and movies with no ads or in app purchases.

Wrap your head around that for a moment. $36 for a year of games, movies, apps and books, or $40 for a single 3DS game. Not to mention the large amount of free content that is available on the Kindle Store.

And again, the Kindle's have a much more robust prarental control feature than any handheld or console has ever had.




Most of those would work perfectly well on a touch screen device.

It's impressive what amazon acheived though, I never thoght something like that existed but you are right it makes no sense to buy a 3DS over a kindle.

What if Nintendo had a subscription plan like that, you pay I don't know maybe 80 bucks a year and get acess to all the games they launch, do you think that would work to increace they're sales?

 

[Pyroclastic]

I would buy the shit out something like that. Well something with a similar control scheme at least, minus the back touch pad. Please don't tell me how implausible something like that is I want to dream gaf

 

[outunderthestars]

It's impressive what amazon acheived though, I never thoght something like that existed but you are right it makes no sense to buy a 3DS over a kindle.

What if Nintendo had a subscription plan like that, you pay I don't know maybe 80 bucks a year and get acess to all the games they launch, do you think that would work to increace they're sales?

I think the better subscription model for Nintendo would be found by leveraging their extensive back catalog of titles.

 

[michaelius]

If Sony wants to try again they probably should go with gaming tablet running android:

7" screen , controls similar to dual shock 4 - make it capable of receiving PS now, streaming from PS4 and heavily evolve playstation mobile as distribution platform of native games for it.

 

[SerodD]

I think the better subscription model for Nintendo would be found by leveraging their extensive back catalog of titles.

All this talk makes me excited for what will see next on handheld space, it's clear that true inovation is needed to make handhelds relevant again, maybe Nintendo hybrid is the right answer, maybe androidPS-NOW, can't wait to find out.

 

[EMT0]

Funny that you picked two franchises that are already on mobile and one in a genre that works very well on mobile. Did you just list your favorite franchises without thinking it through?

Soul Sacrifice and similar games definitely need dedicated controls. That's more of a question of whether hardware addons will ever catch on, rather than purely mobile vs. traditional handhelds.

You can buy A Kindle Fire tablet for $10 less than a 2DS That has 7" HD screen, much more utility, and has robust parental controls and even has a $3 a month Netflix styled subscription that gives you kid access to a rotating selection of games, apps, book, and movies with no ads or in app purchases.

Wrap your head around that for a moment. $36 for a year of games, movies, apps and books, or $40 for a single 3DS game. Not to mention the large amount of free content that is available on the Kindle Store.

And again, the Kindle's have a much more robust prarental control feature than any handheld or console has ever had.




Most of those would work perfectly well on a touch screen device.

Shin Megami Tensei is on moble, even if it makes more sense with real buttons than fake buttons. turn based games that don't require dexterity are tolerable on a touch screen if you draw the ui properly, like they do with final fantasy.

ace attorney and 999 are already there too, without issue.

Just because they are on mobile doesn't make them viable economically on mobile. We don't have any data to reach conclusions, but I've got this feeling that franchises like Ace Attorney and 999 make most of their money on dedicated gaming handhelds, where their fanbases are at by and large, and have their games ported later to mobile rather than the other way around. Who's to say it's economically viable to make them in the first place for only mobile?

 

[FStubbs]

Yep. Every drug store in America has $60 -$89 Android tablets which are good enough for kids.

To be fair, the Gameboy with its $99 price and $20+ games was able to beat $5-$10 Tiger electronics-type LCD games in the drug store.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing. That's not where the origins of handheld gaming lay. That's not the original sell.

But what I'm saying is that the changed/changing market may mean that that is the only market remaining for a dedicated device. Because the original sell is being served by other devices. Ergo, I don't know if next go around by going low end and trying to compete head-to-head with the simplicity of devices everyone has already is going to be the solution.

part of what nintendo can capitalize on is the disorganization of those markets. they have development studios that can be coordinated to focus on a market and get a chunk of it. if they could make handheld games with 20-30 people instead of 80-100, it lowers cost and increases the amount and variety of games the could make. also, the console gamer market is clearly disinterested in playing the same games on console except smaller, and the might be enticed with clearly different experiences, especially at lower prices. i see no real benefit to doing what they've been doing since the dsi.

 

[Vormund]

I would buy the shit out something like that. Well something with a similar control scheme at least, minus the back touch pad. Please don't tell me how implausible something like that is I want to dream gaf

I have a Vita already, but I'd totally get this.

Perhaps Android in closed mode, then slide it open and boots to Vita mode.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Are you from the USA by any chance? Lots of adults in other countries spend an awful lot of time commuting, you make it sound like its a tiny fraction of their time. And adults aren't the only market. The Pokemon and Animal Crossing fanbases include all ages. Also, I like using handhelds at home as I can sit next to my fiancée while she watches the telly, rather than take up the whole front room to play a home console game. Your view of handheld uses seems quite narrow.

Yeah, the US is just very different in those regards. We're a very car-based society, so while many have long commutes, it's primarily in a car driving by ourselves. Public transit is pretty much non-existent outside of major cities, and really only a couple of our major cities have truly sufficient public transit systems like major European cities.

We tend to live in bigger houses where guys can have man caves to go play their games or watch sports or whatever while their partner or kids are using the TV in the main room and so on.

So portables just don't have the broad appeal among adults here that they do in Europe and Japan. I love my VIta, and loved my 3DS last year when it had games I want to play, but just because they give me some types of games that are in short supply on 360/PS3 (and now PS4). I don't really have any use for portability as I drive to work, have the PS3 and PS4 on different TVs (so I can always game if the fiancee is using one of the TVs) and don't care about being next to her if we're doing different things--I need my space.

 

[jdmonmou]

I think the following could help save portable gaming:

1. Make them smartphones. I rarely take my Vita or 3DS with me because I don't have space in my pocket to fit both a smartphone and a gaming device. It's not unreasonable to think an unlocked device could be produced that doesn't cost much (like the Google Nexus phones). Also, if the device runs on Android, you would also have access to all the games on the Google Play Store.

2. Integration with consoles. Sony took a step in the right direction with remote play on Vita. It's just too bad the Vita controls don't match with the PS4 controller and it's hard to make out the detailed visuals on Vita's smaller screen. It's a good idea, but not very well implemented. The next device Sony builds should focus on getting this feature 100% right. Also, I hope that Nintendo is working on merging their portable and console businesses.

3. The cloud. Cloud services that provide access to a catalog of games would provide a tremendous benefit to a portable console. I think Playstation Now will make Vita owners happy. Also, we need more cloud saves that transfer between the portable and console versions of games.

 

[vagabondarts]

People who choose tablet or phone games over actual games makes me sad.

I think that if people played a 3DS or a Vita they would see the difference.

Having played most of what mobile gaming has to offer my conclusion is a lot of people have absolutely no taste.

I think if they could afford it they would move to 3DS or Vita.
I've talked to several people that would if they could, but they've resigned themselves to what they have (Phone or tablet).

Pretty sad state. The potential that mobile gaming had has just been completely flushed down the toilet by groups like Zynga and King.
It blows my mind that anyone invests time let alone money in these "experiences".

 

[Vashetti]

People who choose tablet or phone games over actual games makes me sad.

I think that if people played a 3DS or a Vita they would see the difference.

Having played most of what mobile gaming has to offer my conclusion is a lot of people have absolutely no taste.

I think if they could afford it they would move to 3DS or Vita.
I've talked to several people that would if they could, but they've resigned themselves to what they have (Phone or tablet).

Pretty sad state. The potential that mobile gaming had has just been completely flushed down the toilet by groups like Zynga and King.
It blows my mind that anyone invests time let alone money in these "experiences".

Of course they would see the difference.

The problem is, do they want to pay $40 vs $0.99 for that difference? Likelihood is no. As long as they have their casual games like Candy Crush, Flappy Bird, etc. They don't care.

As much as we on GAF love handhelds and handheld gaming, the rest of the world is increasingly becoming ambivalent towards them.

Fucking smartphones.

 

[vocab]

Innovating titles on mobile? Just because it offers 5 mins of novelty doesn't make it good. The good Indie talent is not wasting their time on mobile because they can't do well on a platform so saturated with clones of clones that can be had for a dollar.

I guess with PC, console, and handheld gaming dead I'll be forced to play a tiger electronic equivalent on my phone filled to the brim with micro transactions.

If that's the future, suicide seems to be more desirable, and that's an experience that can be had for free.

 

[vagabondarts]

Of course they would see the difference.

The problem is, do they want to pay $40 vs $0.99 for that difference? Likelihood is no. As long as they have their casual games like Candy Crush, Flappy Bird, etc. They don't care.

As much as we on GAF love handhelds and handheld gaming, the rest of the world is increasingly becoming ambivalent towards them.

Fucking smartphones.

*knocks over bowl of Cheetos* Thanks, Steve Jobs.

 

[Rolf NB]

I would buy the shit out something like that. Well something with a similar control scheme at least, minus the back touch pad. Please don't tell me how implausible something like that is I want to dream gaf

Not going to happen. The Xperia Play was a spectacular failure. Trying again would be kind of unwise.

 

[metalslimer]

I really wish people would stop trying to sell the idea that a phone and handheld with controls would be popular. The ergonomics and battery life are just not there. Also, the want is not there. People are happy with iOS/Android and are not going to buy a shittier smartphone to play games.

 

[Senor Kami]

After this gen and with the rise of big ass phones, I think the gaming only handheld is dead. Why not throw in what will probably be an inexpensive 4G chip, add a SIM card slot and let them double as phones?

I really wish people would stop trying to sell the idea that a phone and handheld with controls would be popular. The ergonomics and battery life are just not there. Also, the want is not there. People are happy with iOS/Android and are not going to buy a shittier smartphone to play games.

The battery life for phones and handhelds already aren't there but nobody cares. You just get used to the fact that you need to keep a charger at work or in your backpack or whatever. As far as ergonomics, I mean Samsung is rolling in money selling massive nearly Vita-sized phones. It's not like people won't buy a large phone.

Anyways, I think it's less about the masses adopting it and more about gamers. I'd have purchased a Vita or 3DS years ago if I could get rid of my phone and just use that. As it, I already have one big device on me and I don't want to carry another. The device that wins out will always be the phone for me. Now if that gaming device was a phone...

 

[Rolf NB]

After this gen and with the rise of big ass phones, I think the gaming only handheld is dead. Why not throw in what will probably be an inexpensive 4G chip, add a SIM card slot and let them double as phones?

The battery life for phones and handhelds already aren't there but nobody cares. You just get used to the fact that you need to keep a charger at work or in your backpack or whatever. As far as ergonomics, I mean Samsung is rolling in money selling massive nearly Vita-sized phones. It's not like people won't buy a large phone.

Anyways, I think it's less about the masses adopting it and more about gamers. I'd have purchased a Vita or 3DS years ago if I could get rid of my phone and just use that. As it, I already have one big device on me and I don't want to carry another. The device that wins out will always be the phone for me. Now if that gaming device was a phone...

Physical controls are the primary differentiator. I don't want thumbsticks poking out of my phone. I do want thumbsticks poking out of my handheld.