-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
XBox One Architecture Explained - Runs OS Virtually Indistinguishable from Windows 8
- Thread starter statham
- Start date
I've had no problems running games on my Windows 8.1 gaming pc. I had this one problem with Fallout 3, but that's not exclusive to Windows 8. If you want a faster machine, I'd definitely recommend Windows 8, especially after the 8.1 firmware upgrades.
Also, if this is all true, I expect to see great things in the future for the XB1 and PC software-wise. The next couple of years should be very interesting.
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you... or if I imagined the Windows Store with Xbox branded games.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Yup. C# is in (basically anything that can dump CLR code) but you still need to drop down to C++ if you want to write DirectX games. I think if it picks up steam then you'll see more DX wrappers for .NET (essentially what XNA was) which should make for something interesting.
Presentations is the biggest space I can think of. This is a big part of PowerPoint. It allows embedded content from a slew of office software for presentation. Other use-cases are to fringe in my opinion for MS to care but I can see EVE type games really taking advantage of the features of Excel
you can buy cheap windows tablet for presentations and your laptop is going to be with you anyway... carrying XB1 for presentations would look childish and would not make any sense at all since it is much less portable than a laptop and/or tablet.
As to the EVE - thats 2nd screen stuff. Meaning you are much better off by using your TV for games and then use your tablet, laptop, phone for any other info.
Microsoft is not going to do this, heck they even did not want to do indie games on the XB1 until recently.
Now using similar code for games, thats great. Any TV related apps like Netflix and the rest will come to their phones and tablets easier now, even if input is not the same or even the interface, underlying engine could be and thats most of the work anyway.
WinRT is missing a lot of "common" apps right now and this will help it get all the media apps that XB1 has and might have in the future.
I could picture having one Xbox permanently connected to a large screen in a boardroom for presentations. Kinect or Smartglass would be great for control, and it would double as a cheap high quality video conferencing camera. I think its better suited here than a tablet would be.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
You wouldn't be carrying a tablet or laptop to the presentation room. MS will be selling it on the idea that you can access your stuff from the cloud anywhere. Also I think part of the reason they design the XB1 and the Kinect the way they did was to make it not stand out as game machine in these sorts of environment.
These are the changes in thinking by MS that makes it hard for me to rule it out. Look at it this way, it would be virtually free. They would clearly have to make valuable use cases if they were going to do it and not simply because its neat. I can't see myself ever using it other than a quick parlor trick but who knows what compelling use-case they can come up with if they did implement it.
justsomeguy
Member
Universal app refers to having a single unified api for all development. If you're a good developer you will still write custom user interfaces for each form factor.
Then you'll have to excuse my misunderstanding!
The Windows Store is definitely weak as of now, and will never catch interest with the percentage of Windows 8 users who immediately go straight to the desktop the moment their PC boots up.
As more and more casual and mainstream users who don't use the Desktop come to Windows 8 however, the Windows Store will definitely increase in usefulness and productivity. Windows 8 is still pretty young, and will take time I believe to achieve what Microsoft wants it to. (assuming it ever does!)
It is not free at all. It ties up important resources that could be working on something else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
How many resources would this really tie up though, considering that Universal Apps will generally work on Xbox One with very little modification, and that Office is already going to be made available in this form due to tablets?
justsomeguy
Member
Watch the //build talk on xbox app dev, it's very illuminating. They are explicitly asked about c# and explicitly say they are only announcing JavaScript and c++ at the moment. Got the impression that xbox own their own fork of windows 8 and are on their own schedule separate from windows and phone when out comes to building support for win rt. It was all a bit odd and unexpected
To quote another Gaffer (goddamn I wish I had the link)
I see stuff like that around from time to time, and this is really the perfect example. Who in the blue hell is sitting around as a gamer going "OH GOD IF ONLY THEY WOULD PORT OFFICE AND ONE DRIVE TO MY GAMING CONSOLE! #GAMECHANGER".
I... don't get it.
Shouldn't this make porting PC games easier, not harder?
Why all the talk over the previous months of "dev tools" for the Xbox One, and how they would evolve?
Shouldn't devs quite literally just use their PC code, then? So confused.
What happened to "every console is a dev kit", anyways?
Shouldn't this make porting PC games easier, not harder?
Why all the talk over the previous months of "dev tools" for the Xbox One, and how they would evolve?
Shouldn't devs quite literally just use their PC code, then? So confused.
What happened to "every console is a dev kit", anyways?
Puppet Shadow
Member
I asked my wife who does presentations weekly while visiting clients, and her response was:
1: She prefers to take her laptop and hook it into the audio/video system build into the conference room, or failing that...
2: If forced to use their laptop she also carries a USB flash drive with the presentation on it.
In no circumstances can she ever see trusting her presentations to someone else's internet connection, that then connects to a cloud service.
It does make it easier to port, devs still need to optimise for the X1 though which is what I'm assuming the problem with the tools was about.
The Vita has Skype, and IOS has office though. I think there is a bit too much emphasis on "apps" as an answer to everything because IOS found a way to extend functionality of phones by just opening up the API. Apps are neat, but just opening up a game console to apps isn't going to do anything if the apps are just web sites compiled in to an app wrapper. They have to be uniquely tailored to the device and make it something people want to use. Do people use office? yes. Will they use Office on a game machine on their TV? Probably not. I guess I could see office going on the xbox, simply because I don't think Microsoft has really figured out why IOS is successful and Windows phones and tablets still struggle.
Garageband is a neat example of an app that is cross-platform, but has unique functionality on each device. On IOS it is more limited than on OSX, but also made with touch in mind. Even the phone app and the tablet app are different.
Seems unlikely TBH. Every boardroom/presentation room I've been in has specific tech for that already in place and often integrated directly to the display. Then there's the stigma of having a game console in a workplace environment - probably not a problem for some industries (music, etc) but for many that would be an issue.
The OS elements of Xbox are interesting but let's remember the focus for Xbox is the home not the workplace - MS has enough challenges in expanding/growing home presence without further diluting the message 'd argue.
The focus for Xbox OS should be value in the home and connected to other devices - although I still think the nature of the device clashes with today's distributed scenario as it tries to funnel everything via the Xbox to the TV vs being another node in a many device/distributed environment. I also see the Xbox swamped by the number of non-MS OS devices the average household probably has vying to play a role, from tablets to mobiles to portable PCs to Smart TVs.
Still the basic approach seems sound and of interest but MS really need to get focused and speed up value of service offered in the home IMHO.
I think that quote summons up technofiles in general in regards to anything, not just gaming (Not that I haven't been guilty of it myself so I can understand being excited about a technology that really isn't that useful in the application I'm excited about... I'm just more excited about it being able to do that. But, as I get older I'm finding I'm able to more see that I'm just excited about the technology but the usefulness is not there and less getting excited about something unless I truly can see the usefulness of it. But the kid in me still can get excited about tech I find neat even if I realize it's not that useful, or at least not that useful in the application I see it being put out for).
What's the point of making it easy to port, but having an actual hardware architecture that requires a whole lot more of additional work to actually make the ported code work *properly*, then?
It's no problem. I'm actually extremely optimistic of where MS appears to be heading these days, and think they've made a lot of moves that could later be great for the Windows ecosystem. I think that when the Win8 apps can run windowed on a desktop, many users that currently will not use them would be far more likely to give some a try. When coupled with the return of the old Start Menu, but with the ability to also display Live Tiles, the visibility of new apps would be increased to the point where the platform may become significantly more attractive to devs.
We'll see. Android still has issues with phone apps on tablets, so I don't see a great future for apps with a significantly smaller market.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
We aren't talking about scenarios where you have a 400 person dev team working on one game where you can split it up into two teams of 200 and get two good games or even a scenario gamers hallucinate about where if they spent more time on multiplayer instead of adding a Kinect feature then things would have turned out so much better.
I' simply saying that the dev/pub now has the ability to give us games and software on multiple platforms for better value an also devs can create for multiple platform with most of their code shared and even share some of their assets. Given the way the content production pipeline works and the rising bar for hardware power across all platforms, less work has to be done to make this a possibility. The idea of missed opportunity is relatively low and the fact that devs can push to more platforms and gain more revenue with less investment and man-power only increases the capital they have to take more risks.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
Let's assume that MS is still pig-headed about local external storage access in the near future in this hypothetical trip of ours, I would be hard-pressed to believe that MS would ever launch a business solution that has no access to a corporate intranet (like all their other business solutions) in this post PRISIM world.
killer rin
Member
Developers could use Monogame which is essentially an open-sourced XNA which uses SharpDX, which is a wrapper for DirectX in C# and works pretty well and due to it being in C#, is fully compatible with Windows RT
Is Plex mostly used for piracy directly through the app ?
Edit : I have no knowledge of Plex but a quick YouTube shows it's an app that allows me to stream stuff from a shared library on my PC , so something my 360 could do without an app.
That's not the same as letting something like XBMC on the X1
I like icloud and apple's cloud features because it works great on apple devices,which people like
Google play works too because it syncs google's services with android devices, which people also like
OneDrive and microsoft's janky cloud is only worth it when I load up on a bunch of microsoft products I don't want or pay out the ass for. Windows Phone is an also ran up there with blackberry and nobody who already owns office wants to pony up $70 a year just for the privilege of running office ~*~*on the cloud*~*~
Seems like microsoft is turning green w/ envy and wants to astroturf what made apple and google so successful in the post-pc market without realizing you need a product people want first.
Google play works too because it syncs google's services with android devices, which people also like
OneDrive and microsoft's janky cloud is only worth it when I load up on a bunch of microsoft products I don't want or pay out the ass for. Windows Phone is an also ran up there with blackberry and nobody who already owns office wants to pony up $70 a year just for the privilege of running office ~*~*on the cloud*~*~
Seems like microsoft is turning green w/ envy and wants to astroturf what made apple and google so successful in the post-pc market without realizing you need a product people want first.
killer rin
Member
Office 365 is already a multiple billion dollar business. So obviously nobody wants it right?
You're wrong about Windows Phone and Office, but let's just ignore that. Why/How exactly is Microsoft's cloud "janky"?
Yea, I wasn't really arguing the likelihood of people using it for this, I was just offering some reasons as to why I could see it making sense. As for boardroom examples, I've generally seen a separate mic (that usually sits in the middle of the table) and a camera unit sitting beneath an otherwise standard TV screen. I've only really worked in smaller companies though, so that could be skewing my view on things. I don't think the Kinect would have too much trouble replacing this... especially for any new offices that haven't already bought into any solution yet (and consider how cheap the X1 is likely to be over the next couple of years).
I don't think the console stigma would be much of an issue really. The console looks extremely generic as is, and offering a unit without the Xbox branding (similar to Kinect for Windows) would be simple to do. Hell, it doesn't even need to be an Xbox, it could be a standard small PC with Kinect, it all makes essentially no difference as building the functionality for Windows is essentially building it for the Xbox anyway. Which is kinda my point in all this. I'm not really saying that these are things that MS should be chasing with the Xbox... but if they're going to get built for Windows 8 and Surface tablets anyway, then why prevent the Xbox from receiving the benefits as well? As useless as they may be to most people, I can't see why anyone would look at them as a negative. Part of the reason MS has so much problems in regards to their devices being surrounded by their competitors is because whilst their competitors were busy leveraging value across their devices, MS was busy creating completely segmented experiences with no incentive to remain with their other options (Windows/WP/Xbox).
andromeduck
Member
I'm surprised nobody's brought up cache performance...
That's probably going to be the biggest problem with this setup.
That's probably going to be the biggest problem with this setup.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I have Windows 8, but I don't even go into that part of the interface.
The XBMC team has said that a Windows 8 app isn't likely because of all the api/content restrictions on the app store. Its been suggested that they release an "unofficial" app similar to what they've done with iOS but the devs don't seem interested -- that wouldn't benefit the xbox anyway.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It might be a neat feature for people that already own the thing but non-gaming features aren't going to sell a $500 gaming console. Especially not when TVs and Blu Ray players already come with media apps.
Yea, but there's also a VLC app for Win8, and that could possibly be moved across I guess.
That was talked about at build and how they can turn apps into universal versions with minimal code changes beyond platform specifics. Getting an app optimized for a TV wouldn't be all that hard with all the new stuff they're brining including simple Kinect integration.
Billion dollar enterprise business. You might as well tout IBM's strength in the household during the 80s based on its 5250-compatible terminal sales.
I used to have a Lumia 620. It was not a bad phone but in comparison only the most hardcore microsoft apologist could argue that it has feature or app parity with android/ios.
That's fine. You didn't answer my question though.
I'll use myself as an example. If I've sat in front of a computer all day using it for work, why should I have to sit in front of a laptop screen and type more at home?
The Xbox is right there. Let me open up office and knock out this work on a couch with my ultra high def TV. I can have Forza open as well. I'm typing while My driveatar is earning money. It has 8 GB of RAM so I hope it can handle office, a game, music/TV in the background.
To reiterate: Driveatar is putting in work in snap
Meanwhile I'm knocking out this work in office
Xbox Music playing that good yacht rock, contemporary elevator music.
That's three apps running (two in the background) while I'm working.
I'm dead serious and not trolling. I'm not a novice gamer and refuse to get into a pissing contest about proving my gaming cred. Gamers might not want it but someone else could see this and be convinced that this is viable. If Microsoft can sell Surface tablets off the strength of (no shots MicrosoftGAF) it has office then why can't they sell the consoles off the strength of "where's office/skype/onedrive on the PS4?"
They hide apps behind paywalls anyway and Skype is already there. Toss in offie while they're at it. Google TV tried it but they're not in 83 million homes already. I want more bang for my buck. Big Al steal this idea, por favor.
I agree with you to a certain extent but everyone doesn't have a tablet. I doubt this will change things that much but it never hurts to try.
Well, right now you can snap things. I have the Rockies game snapped while playing Trials Fusion currently. One of the benefits they touted before launch was being able to iterate on the full Windows 8 OS without affecting the game OS. It allows them to make changes to the system where needed without risking breaking the way games use the system and allows for faster updates.
RedNumberFive
Banned
statham thread. I'm bailing out before I say something stupid and get banned.
hipbabboom
Huh? What did I say? Did I screw up again? :(
No. Good luck getting that shit out of Apple.
You just did though. Maybe you shouldn't have come into the thread at all.
Apple doesn't care about people in hell anymore
LOL.
Microsoft please hurry and turn hell into paradise, I needs my podcasts and music in one place.