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Was Dark Souls 2 really made by a B-Team? Also, Demon's Souls 2 speculation.
- Thread starter Psycho_Mantis
- Start date
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
They have been numerous rumours blatantly saying that a SCEJ X FROM project is being developed for PS4. Since the last collab was Demon Souls many people usually refer to that PS4 project as DeS2 but it may very well be another Souls spin off or a new IP entirely.
Probably because people like the games. Also DD is a free to play game so it doesn't follow the same rules. I would just like quality games on the new gen systems that aren't effected by ps3 and 360 limitations if it is Sony funding it so be it.
DustyVonEric
Member
I want the feel of Demon's Souls back.
For me, DeS is different from DaS like SF Alpha is different from SF3 (both Street Fighters but undeniably different to core fans).
I'm hoping a new DeS sequel / spiritual successor will either recapture the elements that made DeS so amazing or strike a good balance between DeS and DaS1.
Don't care if it's exclusive, but I don't think Namco / From would go in this direction. So I think it's up to Sony / From if a game like this would get made.
Sal Paradise
Member
Personally, i don't care if the next Miyazaki project is called Demon's Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, Dragon Souls or even Miyazaki Souls, and if or not it's exclusive to a system like the PS4. Hell, I wouldn't even care if it's still on PS3 or Wii U.
If he's working on another Souls game, as well as most of the original guys from the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls 1-team I'd buy it, as well as the system it would be released on, if I wouldn't already own it. That's because he delivered two amazing games (with Dark Souls 1 being my personal favourite and a true masterpiece) and I trust him and the original team.
Would I buy another Namco-produced/Tanimura-lead Dark Souls? Probably too, cause I still enjoyed it, but I'm way more excited about what the original team does next.
Also, someone please put the "B-Team"-term under quotation marks in the headline of the OP, cause that's what everybody seems to read first and comment right away, without even reading the text. Thx.
If he's working on another Souls game, as well as most of the original guys from the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls 1-team I'd buy it, as well as the system it would be released on, if I wouldn't already own it. That's because he delivered two amazing games (with Dark Souls 1 being my personal favourite and a true masterpiece) and I trust him and the original team.
Would I buy another Namco-produced/Tanimura-lead Dark Souls? Probably too, cause I still enjoyed it, but I'm way more excited about what the original team does next.
Also, someone please put the "B-Team"-term under quotation marks in the headline of the OP, cause that's what everybody seems to read first and comment right away, without even reading the text. Thx.
doctorblurg
Banned
I'm totally up for a PS4 souls game! That would definitely push me to buy the system a lot sooner. Hell even if it isn't a new souls game but a new IP or something I'd still be pressured to buy a PS4.
Because:
1. Souls series started as a PS3 exclusive.
2. It would be first and only next gen Souls game (it's possible that Sony struck a deal with From Software not to bring Dark Souls 2 to next gen consoles so that Demon's Souls 2 could become first Souls next gen experience).
3. Demon's Souls 2 would be a powerful exclusive to own (Sony owns Demon's Souls IP, why leave it unused?).
Although I really loved Dark Souls' large, open world (as opposed to more linear/hub world approach of Demon's Souls), overall, when it comes to gameplay, atmosphere and difficulty, I hold DeS in higher regard than DaS.
Barely on the same topic but I found some clear and complete footage of From Software's 1999 PS2 tech demo, presumably to show what a King's Field game could look like on the then-new Emotion Engine and GS hardware going into PS2.
(starts @ 1:05)
http://youtu.be/PM-MVUB2uQQ
Looks extremely crude today, but compared to what PS1 could do...
King's Field IV came out on PS2 in October 2001 in Japan and March 2002 in NA.
couple trailers for King's Field IV / The Ancient City
http://youtu.be/osOU3lARcVo
http://youtu.be/XU9OcM8eR0A
The KF games are considered to be From's predecessor to the Souls series and you can clearly see this in KF IV
The first KF game released 13 days after PlayStation launched in Japan in Dec. 1994.
source: wikipedia.
There's no doubt at all that both Namco and From Software helped PlayStation's launch in Japan.
(starts @ 1:05)
http://youtu.be/PM-MVUB2uQQ
Looks extremely crude today, but compared to what PS1 could do...
King's Field IV came out on PS2 in October 2001 in Japan and March 2002 in NA.
couple trailers for King's Field IV / The Ancient City
http://youtu.be/osOU3lARcVo
http://youtu.be/XU9OcM8eR0A
The KF games are considered to be From's predecessor to the Souls series and you can clearly see this in KF IV
The first KF game released 13 days after PlayStation launched in Japan in Dec. 1994.
source: wikipedia.
There's no doubt at all that both Namco and From Software helped PlayStation's launch in Japan.
CarbonByGravity
Member
Demons Souls 2 (PS4) would be a real ace in the hole for Sony. They did explicitly state that they truly regreted passing up publishing it in the west. Perhaps we'll hear the Maiden in Black's hunting voices just before the game is debuted at this year's E3. You must admit that regardless of how good the two Darks Souls game were Demons Souls lore was far more riveting and mature in its content. Dark Souls 1 and 2, with their obsessions with death and big scary monsters lost a little gravitas as a result. Dark Souls 2 being the bigger offender of the two.
Jazzkokehead
Member
It probably shouldn't be there at all. The game may have been made by a different team, yes but implying that one is necessarily better than the other by assigning them titles such as "A-Team" or "B-Team" is absolutely brain dead.
CarbonByGravity
Member
Demon's Souls is NOT Dark Souls. Announcing it during E3 would be perfect!
CarbonByGravity
Member
The B-team utilized the same formulate for Dark Souls 2. I'm pretty sure the A-team will change things up quite a bit for the sequel to Demons Souls 2.
Sal Paradise
Member
It's there because people all over the Internet are using it. The OP is all about trying to find out if it's true or not.
CarbonByGravity
Member
Miles better than Demon's Souls??? Are you kidding me!? So you're saying that they created Dark Souls 2 from scratch? Without the template that was Demon's Souls or even first Dark Souls? Youre funny and a little clueless. The original game was a masterpiece because it was fresh and new, formulated from the ground up. The games in the Dark series are iterations derived from a direct predecessor and not a spiritual successor as was the case for Demon's Souls and it's link to kings Field.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Lol people are too emotional about my opinion, get over it. Both DS1 and DS2 surpassed DeS by refining the gameplay systems estabilished. Also the lore is 10x better, and lore is the main reason why i play these games. And i'm not saying DeS is a bad game at all, it's still a better game than the majority of titles released over the last gen.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yeah and also something a bit more conclusive:
"Dark Souls 2 was Made by a different Team. Demons Souls 2 Possibility?"
I really liked the core theme of DeS better: what it a a Demon? Its a theme thats not only central throughout the game in its lore and plot but also expressed through gameplay and experiences such as the Maiden Astraea boss and Latria which is the most disturbing level in the game yet ironically conjured up by humans.
Red Liquorice
Member
I can see them doing a new King's Field, but Demon's Souls 2 seems like they would just be competing with themselves. I'm sure Sony would love an exclusive Souls game now that the series hit the big time, but I can't see it doing much to benefit the company and the series other than giving gamers burn out on the concept.
Much better business sense to parlay the increased profile of From gained from the Souls series into producing other games so they're not a one trick pony. King's Field is same, but different and a nice stepping stone in showing From having other cards up their sleeves. Well that's what I'd do, but I'm not From
Much better business sense to parlay the increased profile of From gained from the Souls series into producing other games so they're not a one trick pony. King's Field is same, but different and a nice stepping stone in showing From having other cards up their sleeves. Well that's what I'd do, but I'm not From
CarbonByGravity
Member
Dingdingding
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Was Demon Souls that well known outside of the main fanbase?
I really like your analysis in the bolded part based on SF and how games can feel different despite having many similarities.
Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on why DeS feels different? And did DaS 2 also feel different from both DaS and DeS to you (i.e. feel unique in it's own way perhaps)?
After playing DaS 2 recently and watching let's plays of DaS and DeS to refresh my memory, I too notice some (often subtle) differences. However, it remains somewhat hard for me to put my finger on what exactly made DeS unique and perhaps a bit better when it comes to atmosphere and such. Maybe it's the sound design (with a stronger emphasis on environmental sounds such as background static like the wind etc that help creat a feeling of vastness), a more varied selection of bosses, or...? Maybe it's just nostalgia that does it for me, I truly don't know.
In any case, I'd be happy with any new souls game or any new spiritual successor by Miyazaki. Despite that wish, I too feel DaS 2 - for all its strengths - also indicates a continued loss in living up to DeS initial vision, detail and variety. Hopefully a more direct involvement by Miyazaki might help alleviate that for future games.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Not even Sony was very confident in DeS when it first came out.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
For one thing in Demons Souls you would seriously get fucked up more if you got hit during mid animation. This was the same for the enemy too.
Except ... Sony is not in a position that it needs to buy a strong third party exclusive for the PS4.
Demon's souls 2 doesn't exist, simply because no one needs it to exist. It's just a wet dream.
ScottSullivan
Member
You won't ever get that "feel" back. That first time playing a souls game is the only time you have that feeling. Dark Souls 2 is really not that much different from Demon's souls when you get right down to it, but it feels different to a lot of people because they are used to the mechanics and the mood of the game.
TheJollyCorner
Member
M°°nblade;109462114 said:
It wouldn't be them buying a third party exclusive.
Demon's Souls is a Sony owned IP. Studio Japan helped fund and produce it, collaborating with FROM.
They'd be making a sequel to a popular second-party game, no?
Yep, that's the gist of it to me. The differences between these games when you really get down to it, a pretty fucking minute.
I'm not so sure about who owns what exactly as the game had 3 publishers in total.
That's probably why they rebranded the IP to Dark souls.
CarbonByGravity
Member
It is now. Here's the things, Sony now knows how big a sequel to Demon's Souls could be if properly funded and developed by the original team. Sony will get the word out. Not to mention that every hardcore Dark SoulsDemon's Souls fan will be screaming from the rooftops. You can't buy word of mouth like that, and the Souls series has fans that will put in that free invaluable work. Honestly, Sony would be dumb not to jump on that gravy train. I'm shocked that people don't get this fact. Sony owns the IP. They have a great working relationship with From. They spend millions and millions of dollars on creating games that are far from sure things (Star Hawk, The Puppeteer and so many others). Why wouldn't they fund a game like Demon's Souls II and have it be a Ps4 exclusive? Spending 30 to 40 million to fund a sure thing makes a lot more sense than funding a game like Drive Club. They would sell more consoles as a result and by the time the game comes out they'll have close to 12 million PS4's in the hands of consumers. Demon's Souls II could easily sell a million or more copies under those circumstances. Sony would make back their investment and more! Let's be serious here. This would be a sure thing. Far smarter people than me work at Sony and I'm pretty sure they've come to the same conclusions.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Releasing another Demon Souls when another Dark Souls possibly in the pipe endangers the brand too, I would think. There's already a sense of brand fatigue with Dark Souls II, I could only imagine how a DeSII and DaSIII would do if released a year apart. Unless From forgos DaSIII for an exclusive DeSII. I personally would be more interested in something new from From instead of becoming dependant on one franchise.
sublimit
Banned
If that was to happen i think the hype would have killed me. -_-
Romars202129
Member
Peronally, I played Artorias and Dark 2 within mere months of eachother. And the difference in quality was palpable.
Sure, level design in Artorias isn't amazing... but it still seems a notch above DK2. And forget about boss fights, the worst boss in Artorias is better than the best boss of DK2.
This had to be made by a B team, From couldn't have gone so astray, so quickly.
Sure, level design in Artorias isn't amazing... but it still seems a notch above DK2. And forget about boss fights, the worst boss in Artorias is better than the best boss of DK2.
This had to be made by a B team, From couldn't have gone so astray, so quickly.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Even after the amount of shit that their highest profile game is getting on ze interwebz? I'm pretty sure that the Souls series, critical darling that it is, is not a huge seller in the grand scheme of things. Are there figures available yet?
Hmmm. I'm not sure it would necessarily be the system seller you think it would be. I'm glad to be proven wrong, of course.
Anecdotally, I know some gamers - people who spend an unhealthy portion of their annual income and free time on gaming - that won't even touch the Souls series because of the perceived difficulty. Surprising, I know, but it is what is.
Now consider Joe "Strawman" Public, where the real money is, who buys a couple of games a year. Joe "Strawman" Public wants to come in from work or school and feel empowered after taking it in the ear from their boss or their teacher. They don't want difficult. They don't want careful stat allocation. They want multiplayer, they want a cinematic easy to follow story, they want to feel like they are always doing well. A system seller needs to appeal to that straw demographic because hardcore gamers are in the minority. With the difficulty, which is a selling point at this stage, and the obscure plot, that may end up putting Joe off.
I mean, I'm just shooting the breeze and this is all supposition on my part, but I'm just not sure that Demon Souls 2 is as widely regarded with the general public as you think it is.
DC1
Member
Excuse you....did you just fart?
TheJollyCorner
Member
Not if a Demon's Souls 2/Dragon Souls/Dead Souls/whatever the fuck they call it is already 2+ years in development already and scheduled to release in 2015. <-Keep in mind, this is just conjecture for the sake of argument and the time of Miyazaki's absence from DaS2.
Dark Souls 2 just wrapped production early this year. The team will likely get a break before moving on to the next project. Even if pre-production (i.e. art, scenario) for DaS3 started during DaS2's dev, I can't imagine actual production would begin until summer maybe?
That said, it took (what I guess people are calling) the "B" team almost 3 years for DaS2 production- and that was using the same engine/similar assests/animations as DaS1. Even if it takes them the same time creating a PS4/X1 game from scratch, we'd be looking at maybe late 2016/early 2017 for a DaS3.
SCE Japan Studio/FROM collab'd Demon's Souls 2 (or successor series) in 2015 for PS4.
Dark Souls 3 in 2017 for PS4/X1.
I don't see that endangering the brand. Seems like a nice gap between games (unless you are a X1/PC only gamer).
I don't see a straight up Demon's Souls 2 in any fashion. Sony let that go when they didn't sign From to do it right after DeS1 and they went on to make Dark. From probably would not have went and made Dark if Sony signed them up for a sequel after it was a hit in America.
Now it's too late because then there will be 2 very similar games from basically the same studio and they would not do that. It doesn't make business or market sense for either company right now. FROM is probably making a totally new game or spiritual sucessor with a different setting if anything.
Now it's too late because then there will be 2 very similar games from basically the same studio and they would not do that. It doesn't make business or market sense for either company right now. FROM is probably making a totally new game or spiritual sucessor with a different setting if anything.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Agreed.
For the sake of keeping things fresh and interesting, I really hope this is the case.
I'd expect the next game in the series to get revealed not before E3 2016, slightly more than two years from now so I wouldn't dare expect Dark Souls III released til Q1 2017.
Only question in my mind, will PS4 + XBone combined userbase be large enough by then to justify DS III being on PS4/Xbone/PC and not also on last gen consoles. I'd say yes.
I think DS III will have a new engine for the most recent consoles and PC only. Not going to be a cross gen game.
Only question in my mind, will PS4 + XBone combined userbase be large enough by then to justify DS III being on PS4/Xbone/PC and not also on last gen consoles. I'd say yes.
I think DS III will have a new engine for the most recent consoles and PC only. Not going to be a cross gen game.
DC1
Member
Negative.
One should never ever minimize hit box degradation, the 'nerfafacation' of bosses nor the lose of atmosphere.
These are some of the hallmarks of a Souls game and are championed by all that adore it.
I never really thought of it this way, but damned if you are 100 percent right.
I guess that's why I favored Demon's over Dark.
It doesn't matter if you compiled all this information OP, or someone else. It is very informative and thank you for this.
I don't know if all the lead staff that worked on DS is still working for FROM, so they are making an A-team meaning that DS2 was done by a B-team, but in my eyes it's nice for FROM and for us if another team can do a good Souls game while Miyazaki and A-team work on something else for example.
About DS2 having lost some of it's atmosphere i can't really say, as i'll go with the PC version and i'm picking it tomorrow, but from what i've seen so far, and it's not much as i was in media blackout, it may be a bit different but not 'off'.
Keep in mind that at least one artist i know of, that had a lead role in enemy designs in DS didn't work on DS2 (can't remember his name and CGHub is closed now, i remember he was Korean though, not Japanese) and you know how a few lead artists replaced can change the aesthetics of a game.
I know that DS2 has attracted very positive critique, by critics and gamers alike, but i'll have to play it myself before i can tell for sure. I just wanted to say that considering it is indeed good, then it's not bad if FROM has a second competent group going.
Now i hope for Demon's Souls sequel by Miyazaki
I don't know if all the lead staff that worked on DS is still working for FROM, so they are making an A-team meaning that DS2 was done by a B-team, but in my eyes it's nice for FROM and for us if another team can do a good Souls game while Miyazaki and A-team work on something else for example.
About DS2 having lost some of it's atmosphere i can't really say, as i'll go with the PC version and i'm picking it tomorrow, but from what i've seen so far, and it's not much as i was in media blackout, it may be a bit different but not 'off'.
Keep in mind that at least one artist i know of, that had a lead role in enemy designs in DS didn't work on DS2 (can't remember his name and CGHub is closed now, i remember he was Korean though, not Japanese) and you know how a few lead artists replaced can change the aesthetics of a game.
I know that DS2 has attracted very positive critique, by critics and gamers alike, but i'll have to play it myself before i can tell for sure. I just wanted to say that considering it is indeed good, then it's not bad if FROM has a second competent group going.
Now i hope for Demon's Souls sequel by Miyazaki
TheCthultist
Member
Very concise report. I have to agree with those saying it felt like it was made by From's B Team.... That said, that still puts it miles ahead of most games developed by other groups A Teams.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No one expected it to be such a great game and such a hit. Contrary to belief Demons Souls actually sold quite well.
It sold 300k in JP iirc and 500k in US by Sept 2010. LTD is probably well over 1 million.
M°°nblade;109462114 said:
Again for the millionth time it might not necessarily be DeS2 but a new Souls game/IP.
You might not know this but SCEJ and FROM have a greta relationship and funding for a next gen rpg ain't cheap. There not buying a third party exclusive but working together on a title.
Could very well be a new IP/ D___ Souls.
CountAntonius
Member
This right here. It's insulting.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, but is it well known outside of the fanbase? Take into account that as of 2013 the PS3 worldwide user base was something like, what, 77 million or so? That's not really that great a seller in terms of total market penetration. I really don't think the brand is a system seller quite yet.
I'm sure Sony would be quite happy having an exclusive Souls game, but from a 'creative' standpoint, I'm still struggling to think of a reason why the game needs to be made. I think it suffers from a fundamental redundancy, in that Dark Souls is a continuation of the original ideas and design concepts of Demon's Souls. Whether you prefer DeS over DaS is neither here nor there, the question is whether there is enough of a difference between the two to justify the game being made.
It seems to me that any new idea they could think of for DeS 2, could quite easily fit in the Dark Souls universe. So then, why not just make another Dark Souls game rather than keeping two franchises going that are essentially the same?
If you're trying to imply Sanctuary Guardian is better than any boss in Dark Souls 2 I call bullshit, and the other bosses in the DLC are better than any boss in vanilla Dark Souls 1 as well.
King's Field 5 with Dark Messiah of Might and Magic style first person combat (but improved) and much better than that game in every other area.
PraisingIntensifies.gif