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Youtube announces support for 60fps videos

AmyS

Member
I'm not sure if people realize how much of a big deal this is, marketing is a huge part of why decisions get made on games and up until now the biggest platform for video content had been capped in such a way that you saw no benefits from marketing a 60fps game.

It won't happen instantly but I think this will have a huge long-term impact.

I agree with you.

I think the world's biggest platform for video content now supporting 60 FPS will eventually have a very significant effect on the # of console games that start their development with 60fps in mind. Also the # of games actually released that run either close to 60 FPS most of the time are are locked at 60 FPS For much of the rest of this current console cycle.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
How big of an improvement is it from before?

Looks like I was wrong the bandwidth info in the youtube player is your actual bandwidth usage, not the bitrate. Looks like the bitrate is more like 6000, which is already not too bad with an advanced codec like VP9. Should yield more or less the same quality as the 9000 we use on Gamersyde with the H.264 codec.
Since the videos are segmented in 2 MB parts, it's difficult to find the real bitrate.
 

Harlock

Member
The capture software that people in Youtube uses can get 60fps videos to upload? In any case is very good for companies making 60fps games.
 
About this VP9 stuff, maybe this can help. I think loads of people use it for webm's on GAF.

Quote for lurkers
Okay so I made a small WebM conversion script that allows you to convert any video to a WebM simply by drag and dropping it onto my .bat file! :D

I know people might be hesitant to just run a random .bat file so I will just post the code here for anyone to make a .bat out of it.

Video version:

Code:
@echo off
echo "WebM Conversion Script v0.3.1 by Skyfireblaze & Skyllz"
echo.
echo "Specify starting time in hh:mm:ss.mss (for example 00:00:10.000 would equal 10 seconds into the video)"
echo.
set /p Start=
echo.
echo "Specify end time in hh:mm:ss.mss (for example 00:00:20.000 would equal 20 seconds into the video)"
echo.
set /p End=
echo.
echo "Specify the width of the WebM in pixels (the height will be calculated automatically to maintain the aspect ratio. Type 640 if not sure)"
echo.
set /p Width=
echo.
echo "Set the base quality level from 4 to 63 (default is 4, the lower the better)"
echo.
set /p Quality=
echo.
echo "Set the maximum allowed bitrate in MBit's/sec (default is 2)"
echo.
set /p Bit=
echo.
set /p ANSWER1=Do you want to use the VP8 or VP9 codec? (8/9) (if unsure type 8)
IF /i {%ANSWER1%}=={8} (set Codec=libvpx)
IF /i {%ANSWER1%}=={9} (set Codec=libvpx-vp9)
echo.
set /p ANSWER2=Do you want to have audio? (y/n)
IF /i {%ANSWER2%}=={y} (set Audio=-c:a libvorbis)
IF /i {%ANSWER2%}=={yes} (set Audio=-c:a libvorbis)
IF /i {%ANSWER2%}=={n} (set Audio=-an)
IF /i {%ANSWER2%}=={no} (set Audio=-an)
echo.

"%ProgramFiles%\WebM\ffmpeg.exe" -i %1 -ss %Start% -to %End% -c:v %Codec% -crf %Quality% -b:v %Bit%M -vf scale=%Width%:-1 %Audio% %1.converted.webm

.gif version:

Code:
@echo off
echo "WebM Conversion Script v0.3.1 (.gif version) by Skyfireblaze & Skyllz"
echo.
echo "Set the base quality level from 4 to 63 (default is 4, the lower the better)"
echo.
set /p Quality=
echo.
echo "Set the maximum allowed bitrate in MBit's/sec (default is 2)"
echo.
set /p Bit=
echo.
set /p ANSWER=Do you want to use the VP8 or VP9 codec? (8/9) (if unsure type 8)
IF /i {%ANSWER%}=={8} (set Codec=libvpx)
IF /i {%ANSWER%}=={9} (set Codec=libvpx-vp9)
echo.

"%ProgramFiles%\WebM\ffmpeg.exe" -i %1 -c:v %Codec% -crf %Quality% -b:v %Bit%M %1.converted.webm

The script basically asks you a few questions to fill the variables for you. Now I will give you a step by step guide how to make WebM making forever easy! The steps for the video and .gif version are identical! :)

1: Okay so first copy the content of the CODE up there into a empty textfile and then save it under any name you like. Next you have to change the extension of the textfile from .txt to .bat, this tells Windows that it's something it can execute.

2: Go to C:\Program Files and create a new folder called WebM. (Don't use Program Files (x86) or it won't work!)

3: Go here and download either the 32bit or 64bit version of ffmpeg depending if you use 32bit or 64bit Windows.

4: After downloading and opening the archive you can pretty much disregard everything but the contents of the bin folder. Inside the bin folder you will find a ffmpeg.exe, just copy that into the WebM folder you created earlier.

5: You are done, from now on you can simply drop any video-file onto my .bat script and it will ask you the questions and make a WebM for you! :)

Optional Steps:

6: Now if you want to make the process even more convenient, read on! Copy the .bat file also into the WebM folder, right next to ffmpeg.exe

7: Make a shortcut to the .bat file from the right-click menu.

8a (for Windows Vista/7/8): Move the shortcut you made to the following folder:
Code:
%APPDATA%\Microsoft\Windows\SendTo

If you wonder what %APPDATA% is, it's just a variable to a folder Windows uses, just paste it like that into the Address Bar of any open folder.

8b (for Windows XP): Move the shortcut you made to the following folder:
Code:
C:\Documents and Settings\SendTo

9: What you have done is to link my WebM script to Windows' "SendTo" function, that means making a WebM file of any video you like is as simple as right-clicking on any video --> SendTo --> WebM

Note: The .webm file will always be created in the same folder the input video or .gif is!

Known issues:

- The script won't work if you place ffmpeg.exe outside the folder mentioned above

If you need help just send me a PM or ask here, I hope my script will help people with making WebM's :)

And can anyone tell me if it's okay to redistribute ffmpeg.exe? I would make a bundled .zip but I'm not sure I'm allowed to :/

EDITS:

- I updated the script to v0.3 which adds a VP8 and VP9 codec toggle!
- Now we have 0.3.1 which fixes the CRF description, thanks to Havel for pointing this out :)
- Added instructions for making a SendTo shortcut in Windows XP
- Added a .gif to WebM conversion script
 

ZeroX03

Banned
Here's a crappy comparison of a shot of the VGHS Season 2 trailer. First image is the YouTube, second image is directly from the Rocket Jump website. Rocket Jump version appears to be VBR between 5 and 15mbps. There's a loss in quality on YouTube, but it doesn't ruin the shot. Both are 1080p/48fps.

phxlwd.png
vhtfur.png
 

eso76

Member
Blim must be pissed.

Then again they need to increase bitrate limits significantly first for this to be good news.

60fps with that compression is going to look atrocious
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Blim must be pissed.

Then again they need to increase bitrate limits significantly first for this to be good news.

60fps with that compression is going to look atrocious

I'm not pissed, it's a great news for gamers. It might be a killing blow for Gamersyde for sure, we'll see in the next few months...
 

ZeroX03

Banned
Gamersyde is great for when I want to download a video and watch it on my PC at a proper bitrate. The player has always kind of sucked (sorry Blim) so I don't watch it on their site, but the quality of the videos are unparalleled once downloaded.

YT will be for streaming stuff where 60fps is important but visual fidelity is less so. Fighting games come to mind.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Gamersyde is great for when I want to download a video and watch it on my PC at a proper bitrate. The player has always kind of sucked (sorry Blim) so I don't watch it on their site, but the quality of the videos are unparalleled once downloaded.

Did you try our stream in the past few months? It's significantly better than before.
 
This is fucking awesome and will hopefully push more games and movies to use sensible framerates, but it will also be a horrible mess until we get all the browsers and video codecs sorted. Baby steps, I guess.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
It's impossible to view 60fps YT videos on mobile (Android tablet, specifically), isn't it?
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Did you try our stream in the past few months? It's significantly better than before.
Yea, your player is top drawer stuff, seriously. Nowhere else can you watch high quality gaming vids at the press of a button.

Great news about Youtube. Also hoping it starts opening some eyes about 60fps.
 

R_Deckard

Member
Did you try our stream in the past few months? It's significantly better than before.
Agreed your player is of a very high quality indeed, I think the Download and play is still going to be big from your site, it is afterall MUCH higher than the best YT can offer
Pls YouTube, raise bitrate for those videos. Make 1080p60 to use at least 8mbit.
The 4K option that YT offer is around 35-45mbps so I would guess the 1080/60 would hit just shy of this....it really has too!
 

Thrakier

Member
But why? Just so that it looks less cinematic? Everything will loke like an soap opera now. I'd like more graphical fidelity. Gaming is all about shadow resolution, you don't know!?
 
If you have to do a lot of that before you can upload and have a successful 60FPS video on YT, this 60FPS won't go very smoothly.

Good video editing/conversion takes time, both to execute and to render. Raw 60fps 1080p game footage measuring from 30 seconds to a minute in fraps on a RAMDISK takes up GIGS of space. Other cheaper methods like shadowplay are still huge at 5GB for 15 minutes.You have to use something like handbrake to cut it down immensely while preserving the quality. Handbrake is easy, but VP9 webm's aren't supported, further conversion is often needed. If supported, RAWs would take a million years to upload to youtube. Not even Gamersyde uploads RAWs (Blim, plz correct if horribly wrong).

This definitely isn't the only way. I can definitely tell tell you from experience that upon setting this up, that it is one of the easiest ways to get VP9 webm's of good/great quality.

http://a.pomf.se/zrvgrn.webm
 

Thrakier

Member
You know what is great? If you swtich from 1080p to 720p, it also jumps from 60 to 30FPS. It clearly shows how BIG the gap between 30 and 60 is - it's like complete new game, regarding the looks, and it should be clearly visibile even to the heaviest of 30FPS fanboys.

And now to think that two of the biggest console racing games which release the coming months still run at 30FPS...what a fucking joke it is.
 

Eusis

Member
Fantastic.

Now if only Twitch require 60fps on its streamers that would be great too!
That's a little unfair unless we can magically make Google Fiber the bare minimum for internet bandwidth. Youtube it's more on them (though not exclusively, some people just aren't recording with 60 fps cameras) but for streamers they may just not have the bandwidth for it, and I imagine most people really don't. There's video/game hardware too, but at least on the pro end it's to be expected for them to keep up, not that it'd be very fair for those not on that end to be locked out.
Too little, too late.
Sort of kidding.
As far as drawing the more discerning crowds in? Perhaps. For getting people to actually notice 60 fps? Nonsense, we're just starting to get this in cinemas and it's become more of an issue with console games than it has been for a long time (PC meanwhile it's always been an issue, to the point it's part of why 3DFX crumpled by making the wrong bet), it's the right time for the most massively used streaming site to make people more aware of the difference.
You know what is great? If you swtich from 1080p to 720p, it also jumps from 60 to 30FPS. It clearly shows how BIG the gap between 30 and 60 is - it's like complete new game, regarding the looks, and it should be clearly visibile even to the heaviest of 30FPS fanboys.

And now to think that two of the biggest console racing games which release the coming months still run at 30FPS...what a fucking joke it is.
One has the open world excuse, for however much you feel that does/doesn't excuse it. Personally combined with weather I think it's a reasonably strong excuse, it's trading off performance for gameplay scope, and the little details matter more for when you want to simulate joy riding through the countryside.

The other seems almost more like an experiment to just see how much crap they can render now, and I'm morbidly curious to see it but seriously question how good of an idea that really is. I do find it disappointing regardless that one of the genres most suited for 60 fps has a grand total of one 60 fps entry out of something like 4+ within the first few years, I guess the new Grid could've been that too but the developers didn't want a "port" stigma even though that probably looks stupid in hindsight when many people would rather be able to get all those last gen games on newer hardware running better. But then we've all seen and maybe even felt anti-crossgen sentiment, so I guess I can't fully blame the logic of wanting to build specifically for new hardware or sticking with old hardware entirely instead.
 
Good video editing/conversion takes time, both to execute and to render. Raw 60fps 1080p game footage measuring from 30 seconds to a minute in fraps on a RAMDISK takes up GIGS of space. Other cheaper methods like shadowplay are still huge at 5GB for 15 minutes.You have to use something like handbrake to cut it down immensely while preserving the quality. Handbrake is easy, but VP9 webm's aren't supported.

This definitely isn't the only way. I can definitely tell tell you from experience that upon setting this up, that it is one of the easiest ways to get VP9 webm's of good/great quality.

http://a.pomf.se/zrvgrn.webm

Believe me, I know that stuff takes time. I'm also aware of huge file sizes from FRAPS and Shawdowplay. I just don't understand(granted it's true)why YT/Google would force VP9 for 60FPS.

I was looking forward setting Shadowplay back to 60FPS. Not sure if I should waste my time until we see how this will truly work.
 
60fps with that compression is going to look atrocious.

That's what I said in an older thread.

There 30 more frames per second to compress using the same bitrate. So they have to increase the bitrate for 60fps vids otherwise it will look like shitter than usual.
 
Believe me, I know that stuff takes time. I'm also aware of huge file sizes from FRAPS and Shawdowplay. I just don't understand(granted it's true)why YT/Google would force VP9 for 60FPS.

I was looking forward setting Shadowplay back to 60FPS. Not sure if I should waste my time until we see how this will truly work.

I agree, such a limitation is weird. I'm not a youtube uploader, I don't know what the normal process is for that stuff. Maybe codec/container support will change in the as the feature matures.
 

Thrakier

Member
That's a little unfair unless we can magically make Google Fiber the bare minimum for internet bandwidth. Youtube it's more on them (though not exclusively, some people just aren't recording with 60 fps cameras) but for streamers they may just not have the bandwidth for it, and I imagine most people really don't. There's video/game hardware too, but at least on the pro end it's to be expected for them to keep up, not that it'd be very fair for those not on that end to be locked out.

As far as drawing the more discerning crowds in? Perhaps. For getting people to actually notice 60 fps? Nonsense, we're just starting to get this in cinemas and it's become more of an issue with console games than it has been for a long time (PC meanwhile it's always been an issue, to the point it's part of why 3DFX crumpled by making the wrong bet), it's the right time for the most massively used streaming site to make people more aware of the difference.

One has the open world excuse, for however much you feel that does/doesn't excuse it. Personally combined with weather I think it's a reasonably strong excuse, it's trading off performance for gameplay scope, and the little details matter more for when you want to simulate joy riding through the countryside.

The other seems almost more like an experiment to just see how much crap they can render now, and I'm morbidly curious to see it but seriously question how good of an idea that really is. I do find it disappointing regardless that one of the genres most suited for 60 fps has a grand total of one 60 fps entry out of something like 4+ within the first few years, I guess the new Grid could've been that too but the developers didn't want a "port" stigma even though that probably looks stupid in hindsight when many people would rather be able to get all those last gen games on newer hardware running better. But then we've all seen and maybe even felt anti-crossgen sentiment, so I guess I can't fully blame the logic of wanting to build specifically for new hardware or sticking with old hardware entirely instead.

Ah, I see. I thought Driveclub is a racing game. But when it was really planned as a landscape simulator to just see what you can get out of the console in terms of photrealistic scenarios....it really makes sense to substitute playability for graphical fidelity.
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
60fps to YouTube is great, but hope Bitrate improves (it'd been particularly shitty for me recently), and doesn't take too long.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Mother of God
 

Eusis

Member
Ah, I see. I thought Driveclub is a racing game. But when it was really planned as a landscape simulator to just see what you can get out of the console in terms of photrealistic scenarios....it really makes sense to substitute playability for graphical fidelity.
I think they're still aiming for playability, just that you read what they're doing with the graphics and it just sounds outright insane. Less like "ok, this is an essential part of the experience" and more "I want to see just how much crazy stuff we can do with this new hardware, and if it can't be 60 fps ah well."

For reference the open world game's Forza Horizon 2, Driveclub is the second game I referred to and sounds like it's a closed circuit title.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
I can't even get Chrome to work. Videos are plagued with ads and the video works for 2 seconds then stops. Can't even hit pause or resume.
 

-SD-

Banned
My PC easily plays back 60fps content on MPC-HC but on YouTube it's choppy as heck. Firefox+Flash can't reach 60fps at 1080p and HTML5 can only show 720p30. 1080p60 works on Chrome but rarely reaches 60fps and the playback is amazingly jerky.

Gamersyde has no issues. Smooth 1080p60 HTML5 goodness on Firefox and Chrome.

I used Fraps to check the fps.

EDIT: Downloaded the 1080p60 Hardline trailer using KeepVid and it plays back smoothly in MPC-HC.
 
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