Well...while I do understand that this is the wrong way to approach police work...I'm curious as to what people on this board think you should do if you are "unfairly" stopped by the cops. If you truly believe that some police are sociopaths or violent, it would seen prudent not to provoke them correct?
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LAPD Officer's Op-Ed: "Don't challenge us and we won't hurt you"
- Thread starter Angry Grimace
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VARIA
Member
The Op-Ed reminded me of Chris Rock's advice on how to avoid getting beat by the police:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
How? This is no more than victim blaming. Your rights are your rights, the cop is exceeding his or her rights in the quoted excerpt, ergo, you don't have to submit. If the cop proceeds to continue and/or use force, blame is fully on the cop, nowhere else.
IMO police should be punished more harshly than civilians for abuse or misuse of power - letting this power go unchecked.. well we see what happens. Ferguson at the moment seems like just a bigger variant of the Stanford prison experiment.
Odothehero
Member
I don't think what he's saying is "obey my power trip or get shot" at all. It's more like 'Don't argue with the ref- he's not going to change his mind. If he is using his power appropriately and he's in the right he won't change his mind. And if he's on a power trip and being a racist bastard, he won't change his mind.'
It didn't read to me like he was condoning cops abusing their powers, more like harm minimization: comply with the psychopathic cop and he's less likely to do something stupid and shoot you. And follow up as best you can when the guy with the gun has gone.
It didn't read to me like he was condoning cops abusing their powers, more like harm minimization: comply with the psychopathic cop and he's less likely to do something stupid and shoot you. And follow up as best you can when the guy with the gun has gone.
Deified Data
Banned
Correct. Just don't acquiesce to illegal demands on their part, and politely explain to them why.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
I skimmed the article, but it seems like he's describing the basic rule of interacting with a cop: Unless they're telling you to do something illegal and you have witnesses, do what they tell you to do. If you're not doing that, bad things are going to happen to you.
I can get behind this. Totally reasonable response.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
"He's just speaking the truth"
The truth is that he's a big fat bully with a gun and some of you are not even phased by the fact that a policeman is writing in one of the biggest newspapers of the nation that you may get shot, tased or beaten if you dare to do as much as talking back at him. Emphasis on talking.
And you accept it.
The truth is that he's a big fat bully with a gun and some of you are not even phased by the fact that a policeman is writing in one of the biggest newspapers of the nation that you may get shot, tased or beaten if you dare to do as much as talking back at him. Emphasis on talking.
And you accept it.
That sounds like a recipe for getting shot.
Talking? Shit, he said if I walked funny towards him I'd get shot, tased, or beaten.
Did ANY of you read the article? Seriously. Any of you?
What do you expect a cop to say? He's telling you police interaction 101. Don't fuck with them. They won't fuck with you. They're doing a very dangerous job. They have the power and authority to make your life REALLY suck, so do as they say, and it will be over soon.
What he's NOT saying, is ALL of that entire article should be taken in the context "if you're white."
What do you expect a cop to say? He's telling you police interaction 101. Don't fuck with them. They won't fuck with you. They're doing a very dangerous job. They have the power and authority to make your life REALLY suck, so do as they say, and it will be over soon.
What he's NOT saying, is ALL of that entire article should be taken in the context "if you're white."
That case is not what this LAPD guy is talking about. I hope the cop who did the choke hold is criminally charged. The coroner ruled it a homicide so hopefully something happens.
Although I wonder if that man had complied from the beginning and accepted being under arrest (for an actual illegal activity) instead of arguing, would he be alive today?
Also, if a cop does put you in a (illegal) choke hold, how is resisting going to make it better for you?
Obviously cops should not abuse their power, but when they do, self preservation should be your primary concern.
They are likely fine with it because they don't see themselves as ever being in a situation where they have to stand up to a cop or deal with a cop on a power trip.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Well ideally the people with the legal power to use deadly weapons wouldn't be making threats, but that is just me.
and male.
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
Jesus fuck. I hope none of you are anything but well-groomed white men with collared shirts when you're pulled over by a cop who just found out his wife is fucking a black neighbor.
You do not have to comply with police if they are acting illegally. You should not have to comply with police if they are acting illegally. Ever. Under any circumstances. Ever. You should not be told, BY POLICE, to "deal with it" in the event of an illegal interaction with law enforcement. You should not be conditioned to accept a society where law enforcement can abuse citizens as a matter of first recourse.
The entire article is washing away the fact that officers ROUTINELY interact with citizens in illegal, violent ways. Mostly minorities. To tell people that they should suck it up and be literally violated, just to write a letter to someone who won't give it a second look, is among the most ridiculous examples of people jerking off a broken and abusive authoritarian system I can imagine.
Think about the world you live in. Think about whether or not you want to have someone who can stop you, middle of the street, and literally demand that you acquiesce to their every whim simply because they have a gun. That is what this Op-Ed is supporting.
Did I say it was his fault? Didn't I say that all actions should be taken against the cop? It was ruled a homicide for a reason. But this man had 31 arrests, with the first one being at 16. There are cops that power trip, its a growing issue in this country and hopefully it gets resolved n the near future. Knowing that, why provoke them?
Golly, I wonder where else this can be applied to.
I guess this guy never heard about the multiple colonoscopies a guy went through in New Mexico because an officer though he was clenching his butt cheeks and therefore hiding drugs in his ass. What are you supposed to do in that case, just let the cops shove things up your ass? I mean if you're innocent you should have no problem with that right?
Actually, I would argue that the article could be prefaced with "if you're not white." White people can get away with attitude, aggression, and other poor decisions that minorities often wouldn't be able to get away with without a beat. When you're more likely to be beaten in the first place for no reason as a minority it's doubly important to maintain a cooperative attitude and minimize that risk.
Leyasu
Banned
Because it's irrelevant what you do, they can make up any bullshit excuse to "justify" shooting you. Heck, he even does so in the article.
With you dead, they're gonna get away with it if they don't get caught on tape. And even then we've seen that the punishment, should it actually occur, is more than questionable in its scope most of the time.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because it shouldn't be this way in the first place. This is not the type of behavior we have police officers for. They are not supposed to be here to try and scare the public into acting a certain way. By letting them overstep their bounds on a consistent basis, you are slowly but surely allowing them more power over you then even the written laws they're sworn to uphold are supposed to give them.
And I'm sorry but it's laughable that you think some sort of "Unnecessary behavior" can be taken through the justice system and simply taken care of in an appropriate manner in a world where Cops outright kill people and are punished with paid leave. The only thing taking a complaint about an officer through the justice system will get you is a lot of wasted time.
I want to live in a world where everything works that way, because then there would be far less of a problem with the police if I did, but that is not the world we live in.
Deified Data
Banned
Why did you quote me in this response? I agree that you shouldn't comply with illegal demands and made that clear in my post, unless you disagree with the whole "being polite" part.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The problem is a cop actually saying doubling down with "dont argue with me, dont call me names, dont tell me that I cant stop you, dont say Im a racist pig, dont threaten that youll sue me and take away my badge. Dont scream at me that you pay my salary, and dont even think of aggressively walking towards me." Shit is fucking scary.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
lmfao at "aggressive walking"
How do you define police "acting illegally"? Is it what you believe is illegal or what is actually illegal? I'm not a lawyer so how do I know if I'm actually being arrested legally or not?
I don't know the law, but lets say that you're right and you don't have to comply.
Then what? They fucking shoot you.
If I comply, maybe I get charged with something, maybe I don't. If they did something illegal, maybe I sue them and get tons of money like that dude in NYC who got 125k after getting arrested for filming the cops.
I just don't see the benefit of not complying.
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
Knowing that this man was a human being, why murder him?
That's the question you should be asking. He was murdered. Literally. Not a single person on this Earth should give a fuck if he called the officer a cunt, or spat at him, or if he had been arrested before. He was murdered. Maybe you should spend less time wondering why people are upset in their interactions with police and more time worrying about the fact that an officer could execute you tomorrow and never be charged. Or, in the rare case that he is charged, that he is guaranteed to walk free.
And maybe instead of focusing on the public mistreatment of officers, as you do here:
You should focus on the people with guns and authority acting as paramilitary forces in the street, participating in illegal search and seizure rings across the nation, murdering people in the street, and generally being a corrupt and untrustable institution.
"But people are so mean to police, and for what reason? All they do is racially profile minorities and kill them in the street without repercussion. Pull people over and literally steal money from them with the threat of violence. Arrest citizens with no charges. It's not all cops!"
Don't Laugh
Banned
check out policeone, the cop forum to see just how many of his "bros in blue" agree with his disgusting viewpoint
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Complain about it afterwards. At which point it will be investigated and no wrongdoing will be found. Justice!
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
This guy was probably on something when he said all of this.
Calm down please.
I agree that I can't fully appreciate how it feels becasue I'm coming from being a white guy in a very low crime area. Last time I got pulled over by the cops the guy was actually really nice (I was speeding so...)
So I'm sure my views are very different than many people.
But I'm trying to understand what the solution is.
DUFFMCWALIN
Member
If this were only true.
Xenon
Member
He's being honest. Like it or not cops are people. When people get put in tense situations unpredictable things can happen no matter how much training they have. This is amplified by both sides of the confrontation having fears based on preconceptions and prejudices. So the question is do you want to test a persons resolve who has been given the use of deadly force by society? In theory you should, but it's not practical. As we have seen, it can result in someone getting killed.
As condescending and prick-ish as this guy is, it's good advice.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Protect and Serve, am I right?
But this guy isn't speaking for all cops. Don't let this op ed and what's going on with the police in Ferguson dissuade you. Seriously. There's good ones out there. Just submit to their authority and everything will be fine.
est 1800.
Of course it's wrong.
If a mugger comes up to you with a knife and says "gimme your wallet or I'll cut you"
Do you have the right to resist? Yes
Would it be stupid to resist? Yes
Ideally there would be no muggers or power tripping cops, but that's not the world we live in.
Karsticles
Member
I read the entire article, and I feel like the OP bolded sections meant to upset folks. The entire article seems reasonably balanced to me. He is pretty fair about police abuse, and even says he supports all cops wearing cams to record behavior. Nothing seems like it is getting brushed under the rug.
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