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Endless Legend (4X game by Amplitude) - Update: Out now
- Thread starter PandaPedinte
- Start date
Senor Kami
Banned
Judging by the screens, this seems like one almost exclusively based around war/combat. Is that the case?
I've played it for a little bit, and sad to say the like Endless Space, the combat is lame. Basically, you set up your units, choose their style of fighting, and then watch things play out more or less automatically. It's really simple, and just not fun.
Game looks great visually, but the UI is rough. It's also confusing how it notifies me when my tech finishes, but not when my city is finished making something, so I need to keep an eye on it to queue up the next thing. Haven't met one of my opponents yet, but there are these minor factions that I'm not sure how to interact with except attacking them. Tech tree is less confusing than Endless Space, but much more obtuse than just about any other 4X game.
It's early. It's an alpha. The overall flow to the game feels clunky, and at least at the moment, there doesn't seem a whole lot to the actual strategy. I'm just blindly choosing the next option, and not feeling like I can make real decisions with pros and cons, while my hero wanders the map, clicking on ruins. I hope a lot changes before the final.
Game looks great visually, but the UI is rough. It's also confusing how it notifies me when my tech finishes, but not when my city is finished making something, so I need to keep an eye on it to queue up the next thing. Haven't met one of my opponents yet, but there are these minor factions that I'm not sure how to interact with except attacking them. Tech tree is less confusing than Endless Space, but much more obtuse than just about any other 4X game.
It's early. It's an alpha. The overall flow to the game feels clunky, and at least at the moment, there doesn't seem a whole lot to the actual strategy. I'm just blindly choosing the next option, and not feeling like I can make real decisions with pros and cons, while my hero wanders the map, clicking on ruins. I hope a lot changes before the final.
Isn't that sort of combat a trope of this kind of genre though? Not saying you're wrong - just curious as to what you think of others in the genre.
Gonna pick up the founder's pack I think - these guys have done fantastically well supporting their games - I'll pay them back for that.
No. The combat doesn't play like any other 4X game. It plays more like a party based RPG where fighters take turns based on initiative rolls, but you can only choose to attack, defend, or hold position. Just had a big battle, and it was frustrating because I didn't feel like I had much control over it. The bigger army is certain to win every time.
Ah I see - that's a shame. The combat evolved a fair bit in ES didn't it? I remember reading various patches but never went back to it really (mostly because of the tech tree...)
PandaPedinte
Member
Does the terrain affect the battle?
Not sure. Better elevation might make you do more damage, but since you don't actually control where your troops move to, it's hard to take advantage of that.
Have to agree with Aaron. The Combat is pretty much ES without the actual phases. Kind of becoming a trend with the studio with this passive & indirect take on combat. Unlike ES though you do have a specific turn based order of attacks and etc.
I really hope they change the combat core though. I mean a slightly more active role in the combat could make a huge difference.
Having said that I have not seen anything past the basic melee & ranged combat mechanics. Hopefully there will be more active skills that mixes up the skirmishes.
Gonna play a few more rounds with and see if I can figure out more of the game, but yeah this is the DoE for me where I might just wait until the game has more meat before I dedicate a large chunk of my time on this.
Oh and also completely agree with the option to option gameplay. I got a quest after my first turn to kill a minor faction in one of the regions. Sadly I have not discovered the region yet and for some reason I could only identify the region once I crossed the mid area of the map (they display the region names there). So it took me like 20 turns just to get to the area and killed the minor faction. Quest didn't go through so scouted around and found two more faction buildings, once killing them all it completed. But the quest itself said 'Kill the minor faction' not all of them or anything in that regard.
The UI is slick and nice however it doesn't completely fit the game's style for me.
I really hope they change the combat core though. I mean a slightly more active role in the combat could make a huge difference.
Having said that I have not seen anything past the basic melee & ranged combat mechanics. Hopefully there will be more active skills that mixes up the skirmishes.
Gonna play a few more rounds with and see if I can figure out more of the game, but yeah this is the DoE for me where I might just wait until the game has more meat before I dedicate a large chunk of my time on this.
Oh and also completely agree with the option to option gameplay. I got a quest after my first turn to kill a minor faction in one of the regions. Sadly I have not discovered the region yet and for some reason I could only identify the region once I crossed the mid area of the map (they display the region names there). So it took me like 20 turns just to get to the area and killed the minor faction. Quest didn't go through so scouted around and found two more faction buildings, once killing them all it completed. But the quest itself said 'Kill the minor faction' not all of them or anything in that regard.
The UI is slick and nice however it doesn't completely fit the game's style for me.
PandaPedinte
Member
Jag
Member
It has more depth and gives you a ton of information on all aspects of the game. Suffers from the same end game micromanagement and moving of units slog, but well worth for fans of the genre.
BigWeather
Member
Picked this up. I think the best way to describe this is it's an extension of Endless Space. You know the way Endless Space took Civ 5's major systems and gave it a Master of Orion overhaul? Take all the gameplay changes necessitated by that and put it back groundside.
For example:
1) Unit design - ship design was a big part of Master of Orion and present in ES. EL translates that back pretty elegantly by putting it in context of equipping your armies. It's instantly familiar to people who played space-based 4X with designable ships.
2) Cities - Space 4X had a thing with systems with multiple planets. This sorta translates in the sense that the land is divided into areas, and when you plop a city down in an area, it's yours, the same way an entire system is yours when you colonize one planet.
Overall, I'm liking the concepts it's bringing to 4X. The city expansion mechanic is an extremely fresh breath of air where you really have to plan ahead not just to reach as many resources/anomalies as you can, but also blueprint an efficient way to juggle districts/approval to get a bunch of lv2 districts without blowing your approval ratings.
Some of the legacy ES problems persist. Playing a shit ton of BNW has convinced me that a biased start is necessary for 4X nowadays. While it's still possible to reroll nonstop in Civ 5 to get an advantage for starting location, the difference isn't as crippling as the best vs worst vs median in ES (and by extension EL at the moment). I wish Amplitude would bite the bullet and just admit it's sort of a necessary evil, especially considering how much it was a plague to ES multiplayer where people would just leave nonstop if they got a start they didn't like.
For example:
1) Unit design - ship design was a big part of Master of Orion and present in ES. EL translates that back pretty elegantly by putting it in context of equipping your armies. It's instantly familiar to people who played space-based 4X with designable ships.
2) Cities - Space 4X had a thing with systems with multiple planets. This sorta translates in the sense that the land is divided into areas, and when you plop a city down in an area, it's yours, the same way an entire system is yours when you colonize one planet.
Overall, I'm liking the concepts it's bringing to 4X. The city expansion mechanic is an extremely fresh breath of air where you really have to plan ahead not just to reach as many resources/anomalies as you can, but also blueprint an efficient way to juggle districts/approval to get a bunch of lv2 districts without blowing your approval ratings.
Some of the legacy ES problems persist. Playing a shit ton of BNW has convinced me that a biased start is necessary for 4X nowadays. While it's still possible to reroll nonstop in Civ 5 to get an advantage for starting location, the difference isn't as crippling as the best vs worst vs median in ES (and by extension EL at the moment). I wish Amplitude would bite the bullet and just admit it's sort of a necessary evil, especially considering how much it was a plague to ES multiplayer where people would just leave nonstop if they got a start they didn't like.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Oh wow this looks insanely good, why have I not known about this sooner!
Jag
Member
I played alot of FE and while it's a pretty game, I just don't feel like it has much depth. Plus the endgame is a huge slog moving your Stacks of Doom all over the place. There also is no real mid-game. You start out incredibly weak and pretty much have to turtle until you can take on some stronger mobs, but then quickly ramp up until your stack can wipe out anything on the map. If you like the genre, you can get some fun out of it, but its not a long term replayable game like Civ or AOW, at least for me.
I know it has gotten a ton of post release support (which is why I pre-purchased Elemental to support Stardock and got FE for free), especially with the hiring of Derek/Kael (from FoH Civ mod). I just burnt out on it, so I haven't seen the most recent changes.
BigWeather
Member
Thanks a ton for your thoughts on this. I realized I had FE (not FE:LH) in my Steam library and after playing it a bit I'm not feeling it like I did Civ (haven't gotten AoW or WL yet) so I'll likely wait for a deep sale for FE:LH. Thanks!
I haven't watched it yet, but how about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQGrSHFIIew&feature=youtu.be ?
Dakota47
Member
Thanks, I actually just finished watching that. Quite a helpful video, together with the manual.
Jag
Member
I would strongly recommend AOW3.
PandaPedinte
Member
Thanks for linking it, I'll put it in the OP.
PandaPedinte
Member
Amplitude opened a poll to let the community design and choose a minor faction.
Sentenza
Member
That's a massive bummer. I really don't like this approach.
PandaPedinte
Member
The game will be moving to the beta phase tomorrow and they posted this update:
You will be able to play the Beta version of Endless Legend tomorrow. Thanks to all of those who have dared to launch the "Beta Branch" on Steam in the previous weeks. Your feedback has been more than helpful and allowed us to improve the build for the public release tomorrow. We will be sharing the release notes then but here's what it will include:
The Ardent Mages
The Roving Clans
You will be able to play the Beta version of Endless Legend tomorrow. Thanks to all of those who have dared to launch the "Beta Branch" on Steam in the previous weeks. Your feedback has been more than helpful and allowed us to improve the build for the public release tomorrow. We will be sharing the release notes then but here's what it will include:
- Two new playable major factions: the Ardent Mages and the Roving Clans
- Multiplayer mode with up to six players out of eight in the final game
- Enhanced Battle system (Battle Pace / City Militia / Moral Boost / Upgraded Deployment)
- Ships and Harbours, you can now go explore and colonize the world beyond the ocean!
- Addition of Roads and Trade Routes
- Improved Diplomacy: new Diplomatic Treaties, AI diplomatic behaviour, Counter Proposal option
- Addition of Privateers: mercenaries bought in the marketplace who can attack anyone without revealing exactly whose side they are on…
The Ardent Mages
The Roving Clans
PandaPedinte
Member
PandaPedinte
Member
No idea yet, my laptop's hard drive died so I can't play the game.
I don't hate that combat mechanic (set the strategy, units fight out w/o interaction) - I mean, that's the series. I have Age of Wonders 3 for tactical game play.
I really loved Endless Space (and the ongoing support) so will definitely but this. I just wish I was an Early Access guy, but the whole idea of playing unfinished buggy games doesn't appeal to me.
I really loved Endless Space (and the ongoing support) so will definitely but this. I just wish I was an Early Access guy, but the whole idea of playing unfinished buggy games doesn't appeal to me.
PandaPedinte
Member
Totally understandable, you still can buy the and think it as a pre-order with a good discount. xD
Deified Data
Banned
Same. I don't mind playing a game in a rougher state, but I'd rather not have the excitement and wonder of a game burnt out on me before I've played the complete product.
PandaPedinte
Member
The game is coming out of Early Access on September 18th, they also released the OST on bandcamp for free.
PandaPedinte
Member
I'm playing and I'm liking it, so far seems more polished than Endless Space and the combat is better. I'm also enjoying the addition of quests to advance the story of your faction, I could write more but I'm really bad at reviewing anything, but overall I think it's a good game.
PandaPedinte
Member
Both games are easy to get into, but I don't think there are too many similarities besides all the common points you can expect from 4x gamrs. In EL you can only build one city per region, you dont need to expand your city until a resource to extract it, if you already researched the technology you can just build it. The combat also is different than Civ V, you can put more than one unity in a hex when moving but once the combat starts the map focus on a part the scenery and you give orders to your units to where to go.
I launched the final version for a bit. I LOVE that they included a UI option for high resolution monitors. Endless Space was wayyyyy too small on my screen.
Performance in the final version is far better than the early access version.
Beyond that, I haven't played the game enough to comment.
Picked this up as it's now finally released.
Have to be honest, I already prefer it to the other crop of fantasy strategy games released over the last 12 months (Warlock 2, Age of Wonders) simply because it's more of a civ style game than the others and doesn't feel like a bolted on add-on to civ 5.
No idea on the AI but it seems to have a whole ton of options to use and depth to building your empire, so really looking forward to getting my teeth into it over the next week.
Have to be honest, I already prefer it to the other crop of fantasy strategy games released over the last 12 months (Warlock 2, Age of Wonders) simply because it's more of a civ style game than the others and doesn't feel like a bolted on add-on to civ 5.
No idea on the AI but it seems to have a whole ton of options to use and depth to building your empire, so really looking forward to getting my teeth into it over the next week.
Sentenza
Member
Disagree with Aaron's post from my experience, but then I only just started playing the finished game and he was playing alpha.
In terms of combat, it is simpler than Master of Magic, but far more detailed than Civ. You do get to control units in combat, and it does have a really cool and unique feature. When combat occurs, it happens on the actual strategic map - you get to deploy your units in areas near where they were stood on the map, and you get reinforcements from any other nearby armies. I really like this as it adds a whole level to combat that no other 4X game has - not only does terrain really matter, but you can see the terrain before you initiate combat and fight based on that.
In terms of UI, you get notifications when things finish building. To be honest, UI comments from any games Alpha are practically worthless because it's always something that's finished last.
Really not sure how the tech tree is obtuse - I like it, my only concern is that there are so many techs you want and you can't afford them. It takes 9 techs to hit the next level of tech, and every tech you research increases the cost of all techs, so you are better served by picking 9 techs and then jumping to the next level even though there are things you would still want.
Personally, I'm loving it. It's much more of a 4X game than Age of Wonders, and doesn't rely on heroes and extremely fast moving units. The region and source system is superb and enjoyable, and the city building is a fun little mini-game. My only downside would be the relative lack of magic - there's no equivalent to mana and overland spells that you got in master of magic and age of wonders. Some units and heroes have spells, but they aren't huge (note - once race is all about spell casting, but I haven't played the . They seem to get a lot of battlefield spells).
Oh, and the race selection is superb. Far better than any of the other fantasy strategy games from the last few years, as the different races really do play extremely differently. Each race also comes with a racial super quest that unlocks various unique techs and rewards as you play the game.
Overall, honestly, i think it's the best of the fantasy strategy games we've seen released over the last couple of years - Warlock 2, Age of Wonders 3 and a Elemental being the main three. None are perfect, but as a 4X game this one does the best job and has some really interesting ideas and concepts in it and a large amount of replay ability with the difference races. It is also far prettier than the other games...
In terms of combat, it is simpler than Master of Magic, but far more detailed than Civ. You do get to control units in combat, and it does have a really cool and unique feature. When combat occurs, it happens on the actual strategic map - you get to deploy your units in areas near where they were stood on the map, and you get reinforcements from any other nearby armies. I really like this as it adds a whole level to combat that no other 4X game has - not only does terrain really matter, but you can see the terrain before you initiate combat and fight based on that.
In terms of UI, you get notifications when things finish building. To be honest, UI comments from any games Alpha are practically worthless because it's always something that's finished last.
Really not sure how the tech tree is obtuse - I like it, my only concern is that there are so many techs you want and you can't afford them. It takes 9 techs to hit the next level of tech, and every tech you research increases the cost of all techs, so you are better served by picking 9 techs and then jumping to the next level even though there are things you would still want.
Personally, I'm loving it. It's much more of a 4X game than Age of Wonders, and doesn't rely on heroes and extremely fast moving units. The region and source system is superb and enjoyable, and the city building is a fun little mini-game. My only downside would be the relative lack of magic - there's no equivalent to mana and overland spells that you got in master of magic and age of wonders. Some units and heroes have spells, but they aren't huge (note - once race is all about spell casting, but I haven't played the . They seem to get a lot of battlefield spells).
Oh, and the race selection is superb. Far better than any of the other fantasy strategy games from the last few years, as the different races really do play extremely differently. Each race also comes with a racial super quest that unlocks various unique techs and rewards as you play the game.
Overall, honestly, i think it's the best of the fantasy strategy games we've seen released over the last couple of years - Warlock 2, Age of Wonders 3 and a Elemental being the main three. None are perfect, but as a 4X game this one does the best job and has some really interesting ideas and concepts in it and a large amount of replay ability with the difference races. It is also far prettier than the other games...
There have been a number of lets play type videos posted on youtube going over the two(some even direct comparing), so I'd give those a shot.
That said, the BIGGEST differences are in "general" aspects of the game:
AoW 3 has FAR superior combat(at least IMO), and is more in-depth in that regard
EL has FAR more "meat" for stuff like diplomacy etc.
It's more of a "true" 4x game, so if you're expecting AoW 3 simply with a different skin...we'll it will be plenty different in certain areas. Plus, the overall graphics are far better than most of the other fantasy 4x games atm.
i really really enjoy the art style/direction of this game compared to aow3, warlock 2 and elemental
oh and the map is important in combat, because infantries can't attack enemies that are of 2 height differences (cliffs)
the random sidequests are fun, and i really like how each faction plays quite differently
oh and the map is important in combat, because infantries can't attack enemies that are of 2 height differences (cliffs)
the random sidequests are fun, and i really like how each faction plays quite differently
VindictiveGnome
Member
New patch: Notes
I'm really enjoying this game. The art and graphics are gorgeous. The music is great. The UI is slick and clean. Now, my experience with 4x games is fairly limited (Civilization V and Age of Wonders 3), but I feel this game is solid. So far, it's incredibly deep. Playing as the Drakken and not relying too much on my military is a lot of fun and challenging (never been too good at these types of games).
I'm really enjoying this game. The art and graphics are gorgeous. The music is great. The UI is slick and clean. Now, my experience with 4x games is fairly limited (Civilization V and Age of Wonders 3), but I feel this game is solid. So far, it's incredibly deep. Playing as the Drakken and not relying too much on my military is a lot of fun and challenging (never been too good at these types of games).