Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Just a request, can you guys check if you can still access the audio clip here - http://vocaroo.com/i/s15bEzNg8b57
thanks
thanks
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Bloodborne Producer: Targeting 30fps for "Game Design" purposes
- Thread starter Guerrilla
- Start date
Cannot access it. Has Sony asked you to take it down?
Wow. For all the praise that game gets, I'm surprised this is hardly been mentioned at all.
Platinum has been slipping a little lately. First a bad Avatar game and now framerate drops on their prized title.
Please don't hate me guys, I love Bayonetta 2 anyway. XD
I literally can´t play those games with 30 fps anymore
Ummm...I could be wrong but neither of those two pics look like 60 FPS either. The one on the right doesn't even look like 24 FPS lol.
Red Liquorice
Member
As someone who can't tell the difference, I don't care.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
The best action/RPG of all time, Demon's Souls, is 30fps. I'm normally obsessed with games being 60fps, I tend to buy PSN games just because they are 60fps. But when it comes to Souls, I'm all about dat quality of content. And if Bloodborne is equally as awesome as Demon's Souls, I'm gonna be the happiest man alive.
edit: also, the framerate needs to be stable (I know a few parts of DS ain't stable but those stages don't require dodging).
For reference: Dark Souls 2 on PS3 is one of the trashiest games ever. I gave that game a 2/10, actually managing to be worse than DkS1. However, DkS2 on PC is one of my favorite games of this gen, climbing up to 8/10 and (so far) over 400 hours played.
edit: also, the framerate needs to be stable (I know a few parts of DS ain't stable but those stages don't require dodging).
For reference: Dark Souls 2 on PS3 is one of the trashiest games ever. I gave that game a 2/10, actually managing to be worse than DkS1. However, DkS2 on PC is one of my favorite games of this gen, climbing up to 8/10 and (so far) over 400 hours played.
Metal Gear Rising felt 60 FPS on PS3 to me without much if any framerate drops...unless I'm wrong on that too.
...please tell me I'm not wrong on that. XD
It's hovering at about 50 and drops A LOT if you use blade mode too much
...maybe it's me that needs to get eyes checked after all.
I mean I CAN tell the difference between 60 FPS and 30 just fine but stuff at 45-55 FPS makes it a little more tricky.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Sounds good. Game looks great.
MDSLKTR
Member
LOL how come I only see this here
DustyVonEric
Member
This is a Souls game.
People who thought From would hit 60 fps were out of their minds. Even if this was 720 - 900p on PS4, I'd be shocked if From got it to a consistent 60 fps. And I'm not hating. From is in my top three favorite devs. But that's because their games are haunting, fun, and unique; not because they're graphical powerhouses or technical masterpieces.
All I ask for is 30 locked and a translation that actually says what was stated by the devs.
And if a translator is going to go all story time on us, they need to know their audience better. Gamers ain't trying to hear stories about 30 fps are better for action games, is more cinematic, and your team did it to avoid debates and stuff.
People who thought From would hit 60 fps were out of their minds. Even if this was 720 - 900p on PS4, I'd be shocked if From got it to a consistent 60 fps. And I'm not hating. From is in my top three favorite devs. But that's because their games are haunting, fun, and unique; not because they're graphical powerhouses or technical masterpieces.
All I ask for is 30 locked and a translation that actually says what was stated by the devs.
And if a translator is going to go all story time on us, they need to know their audience better. Gamers ain't trying to hear stories about 30 fps are better for action games, is more cinematic, and your team did it to avoid debates and stuff.
MoogleWizard
Member
The problem is not that the game will be 30fps, the problem is that the first three games were far from 30fps and I have no confidence in Bloodborne being much better. No one who knows From and the Souls series well expected 60fps, it was never going to happen. We should be hoping for stable 30fps instead.
I adore the Souls games, but their frame rate problems did affect my enjoyment of them at times. Let's take the infamous example: Blight Town, when I moved the camera or when there were many enemies on screen, everything started to judder, my character, the enemies and the camera. That juddering hurt my eyes and made me slightly dizzy, it's 100 times worse than in a game like Bayonetta that dips from 60 to 45, I hardly notice the dips there but the juddering in the Souls games is very noticeable. Dragon's Dogma is another game with bad framerate problems but while I noticed the dips, they didn't hurt my eyes or make me dizzy. The dips in Souls have this weird juddering effect that makes the framerate problems more noticeable to me than in most other games I played.
The Bloodborne alpha had similar problems, when the framerate drops, the backgrounds and distant enemies or other moving objects wouldn't just move slower but also started to judder, combined with the weird vignetting effect that makes the corners of the screen blurry, I started to feel this slight dizzyness again. It only happens rarely, but it does happen. It's hard for me to describe but I perceive Souls fps drops more than in other games, so I really hope they actually hit 30fps this time, not 15-25fps.
I adore the Souls games, but their frame rate problems did affect my enjoyment of them at times. Let's take the infamous example: Blight Town, when I moved the camera or when there were many enemies on screen, everything started to judder, my character, the enemies and the camera. That juddering hurt my eyes and made me slightly dizzy, it's 100 times worse than in a game like Bayonetta that dips from 60 to 45, I hardly notice the dips there but the juddering in the Souls games is very noticeable. Dragon's Dogma is another game with bad framerate problems but while I noticed the dips, they didn't hurt my eyes or make me dizzy. The dips in Souls have this weird juddering effect that makes the framerate problems more noticeable to me than in most other games I played.
The Bloodborne alpha had similar problems, when the framerate drops, the backgrounds and distant enemies or other moving objects wouldn't just move slower but also started to judder, combined with the weird vignetting effect that makes the corners of the screen blurry, I started to feel this slight dizzyness again. It only happens rarely, but it does happen. It's hard for me to describe but I perceive Souls fps drops more than in other games, so I really hope they actually hit 30fps this time, not 15-25fps.
Gipsy Danger
Member
It's fine that it's 30fps. Whatever. But "best for design" is pretty vague. 30fps is never best for design, it's a compromise. It's fine but just say that. Although if I'm misunderstanding then I apologise, that's what it seems like they are saying to me.
From what I've seen of Bloodborne visually, I will happily take 30fps if they can get the game looking as good as it can at 1080p.
We were naive to think that this gen would finally herald the arrival of the gaming gold standard to consoles, but alas, we're only halfway there.
We were naive to think that this gen would finally herald the arrival of the gaming gold standard to consoles, but alas, we're only halfway there.
Contention is "best for design".
TheSlySoul
Member
At least it is 1080p, I rather they go for either 60 FPS or 1080P.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
If they can release a tight game with fixed frame rate I'm ok with that.
So, what was the original blow up in this thread about?
The original interview said that 30fps was the best From thought for action games, hence why all their action games have been 30fps. So where is the controversy? What's the issue with their opinion on 30fps?
If they are console developers, and their action games have always been tailored toward 30fps based on their game design goals, that's what they feel will be the best fit. What exactly was the complaint about to start with?
The amount of enemies, the world scale, the assets, and everything are fixed for console devs and what they can achieve. Its not some sort of goddamn rocket science.
The original interview said that 30fps was the best From thought for action games, hence why all their action games have been 30fps. So where is the controversy? What's the issue with their opinion on 30fps?
If they are console developers, and their action games have always been tailored toward 30fps based on their game design goals, that's what they feel will be the best fit. What exactly was the complaint about to start with?
The amount of enemies, the world scale, the assets, and everything are fixed for console devs and what they can achieve. Its not some sort of goddamn rocket science.
I honestly don't understand why the need to compromise. These consoles are, reportedly, beastly powerful. More so than high-end PCs, according to some people. And while some may argue that 60 FPS are not "needed" for every game (whatever), nobody can deny that, if both are possible, going for 60 FPS only benefits the game. So why not go 1080p AND 60 FPS? Is that "cinematic feel" so important these days?
I think I know the answer, though.
So, even if FROM could, they wouldn't go for 60 FPS, right? There's absolutely no reason imposed by the hardware on their decision, from what I can tell based on what you're saying.
Gipsy Danger
Member
I can't tell if you're serious. Please say you're not serious.
lukeskymac
Member
Shai-Tan
Banned
I think because it was construed as a more general statement. Anyhow anyone who played the Souls series knows that there is significant slowdowns in those games, especially Demon's Souls so actually hitting 30fps is a good thing assuming "30fps" is actually hovering around 30 not low 20s or lower in busy scenes. The souls series already make pretty significant visual downgrades in things like shadows and lighting which do make the game look worse so there are always tradeoffs - you can't have everything.
That's just being intentionally ignorant to be vindictive against certain people though.
Limitations are the name of the game, you build around those, everyone knows this. On top of these units being budget consumer units to start with.
What do you mean "even if they could", They most definitely could if they wanted to. But their games would definitely not be the same games without taking those thoughts into account. Everything is a compromise for game design with a limited budget, its not a hard concept to grasp.
Of course I am.
I'm not being serious. I know that devs settle for 30 FPS because they can't squeeze more out of consoles right now. I just don't like the sugar coating they try to sell to avoid acknowledging the cold, hard truth.
No. I'm not vindicative. I'm playing dumb. As dumb as these people think we are. You're fine with 30 FPS? More power to you. But that doesn't mean that devs and PR should treat people like idiots. If everyone knows that they are limited by the hardware, say it. Or at least don't try to justify your limitations with "artistic decisions" or "this is the best for X game".
Shai-Tan
Banned
you're mistaken about the power (it's more like midrange GPU with a weak CPU that is dependent on parallelization to perform well) and as I said above there are always tradeoffs. if you want to have a perfectly smooth 60fps it often means sacrificing visual elements or making them static instead of dynamic
This thread has nothing to do with the actual framerate. It has to do with the fact that devs are giving reasons for limitations and pass them on as "right reasons" instead of admitting that they are limitations.
Shai-Tan
Banned
except edit 2 in the OP makes it clear that the translator was at fault?
Mugatu
Member
You're right but I think the more important issue is that if gamers nitpick and bitch about every off the cuff comment a developer makes then soon they'll learn not to talk to us at all and we'll get nothing but marketing speak. Which is the exact opposite of what everyone should want.
Bayonetta 2 would also love to look like Bloodborne.
Yes because Sony has a long history of porting their exclusives to PC right?
But that IS what it is. That decision of 30fps is the best for their game, how they are developing it.
Bayonetta, is not going to be as fluid at 30fps, so Platinum made the decision from the beginning to go with 60fps and based their game design around that. Sure they don't have more rendering time to pack more pixels in per frame, but that's their trade off they made that they felt was best for action games.
Its the same with From. They probably never even considered 60fps to start with, because they base their action games on 30fps, that is what they feel is the best for the game they are making.
I don't understand what the outrage is about. Its not even like they said something outrageous like "60fps is not as good as 30fps in general" or "30fps is way more cinematic". They said the truth. That for their actions games, and the game that they were making right now, 30fps was the best choice they decided on. Its not a hard concept!
Did you read the update and translation by a neogaffer? He admits that they can't do 1080/60.
Yamagiwa: "The resolution is going to be 1080p. As for the frame rate, well, stretching it to 60, with how this game is.. Demon's couldn't do it either, well I guess we probably won't be able to make it up to 60... It sounds like I'm making excuses but, anyway we're targeting 1080p 30fps.
There were no right reasons given except for what the translator came up with.
Frank Jaeger
Member
I wanted that shinny 60fps! Made me sad!
Will buy it any way though!
Will buy it any way though!
That's in relation to the 60fps question. They could get it higher but currently they are only going for 30fps.
you guys really love reading deeply into these translated, one-off quotes
either that or this is some tasty concern trolling
FF Seraphim
Member
HAHA! I thought it had to be a translation error.
we.are.the.armada
Member
So the Blighttown equivalent in Bloodborn will be at like 10