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Developers that constantly feature bad writing in their games.
- Thread starter Corpsepyre
- Start date
Not a friend so much as a teacher--he is a staff member at a writing workshop I went to this summer.
He's recently said that working on Bungie made his life worse and probably actually lost him money since it made him depressed and set him back in regards to his debut novel. All in all, pretty horrible :/
I agree. The lore in The Elder Scrolls it's actually pretty good. But they are terrible at everything else (the dialogues and characters the worst offenders imho).
Gamefreak is another good one. It's funny and sad at the same time when you think that part of Gamefreak with Itoi at the head made Mother...
Tales Team and Tri-Ace (except for Resonance of Fate which had some genuinely good dialogues) have some of the most cringeworthy inducing lines and scenes that i have ever seen i any game.
super-famicom
Member
Besides Bungie? Probably Blizzard.
My friend! All they ever talk about in Pokemon is pokemon. There are very rarely any lines of dialogue that don't revolve around the little creatures. At least in X. It gives the feeling that the world was created specifically for and revolves around the Pokemon (which is true, I guess, but makes it feel very odd and unsatisfactory). I don't expect god-tier level writing but it would be nice if the NPCs had something to say that didn't have to do with a Pokemon. Even if it were just something dumb like "I really like playing with this ball. It's lots of fun." or something. I dunno.
Fair enough but I don't like the way you kill Vaas and then after that the game takes a huge nosedive plot wise since Vaas was really the only compelling thing about the story or characters.
MrCunningham
Member
Shinji Mikami
theignoramus
Member
Sucker Punch bad writing, what?
theignoramus
Member
Halo 2 has a pretty good story actually.
3DimensionalAperture
Banned
Pretty sad how many people mentioning MGS in here, which is probably the best narrative in a video game series.
3DimensionalAperture
Banned
He's not a writer. He's a game designer. The stories in his games are written by different people.
MGS4 writing was embarrasing, and from what I've heard, Peace Walker too.
I always get reminded of this post when talking about Metal Gear Solid 2.
Metal Gear Solid 2 is lunacy.
Augustus McCrae
Banned
Agreed.
3DimensionalAperture
Banned
It was the weakest out of the series but it wasn't anywhere near embarrassing and PW had one of the better stories in the series.
This post is at absolute best, a piss poor understanding of MGS2, full of conjecture, and outright bullshit.
Riposte
Member
After reading this thread and the other one, I'm always left the same question I usually have for threads like these: "What exactly is writing?" I assume, from other contexts and the first thread, it is the dialogue of characters and such, as in the "script" (but not necessarily how the script is "read"). That's without considering localization. The thing is, it seems to slowly slide into everything else that could be viewed as a piece of a "film" or "novel" when completely isolated from the larger game (which is a questionable practice in itself).
On the matter of dialogue, I would say there could be better/cleaner exposition in many games. Seems to not get as much attention in many cases or at least I find myself thinking "they probably could have done that line better". A lot of Japanese games (and media) are translated into English in a fashion that doesn't resolve different manners of speaking the two languages have (although it can lead to some endearing lines/phrases).
EDIT: Stealth_Cobra, not to go into an argument where I agree or disagree with how MGS2's story succeeds or fails, but sacrificing the "sense" of a story is well worth it if it creates "intense feelings". The storytelling is fully subservient (and no more an important servant than a whole bunch of things that make up a game's presentation) to something bigger: the experience (obviously). This is true especially in a videogame, and especially in a videogame like Metal Gear Solid 2.
I would also say you should really get over canon between games. Letting that get in the way is baggage you don't want to be carrying.
For what it is worth, I believe the best way to approach canon in videogame series (among other things with hopelessly difficult canons, namely comic book universes) is that every game has its own separate "timeline" (or, plainly, "story" to sound less sci-fi), where only the events in that game explicitly happen (accounting for role-playing choices) and everything else is only vaguely implied to have happened in a similar enough fashion unless implied otherwise. Even when explicitly stated, that event only exists as it is described in that game. This just means the restrictions of canon should be very loose unless the series actively works to make specific connections explicit (when it isn't consistent, then you discard the canon). Ultimately, the game you are playing (the illusion you are currently immersed in) is more important than the games you are not playing.
On the matter of dialogue, I would say there could be better/cleaner exposition in many games. Seems to not get as much attention in many cases or at least I find myself thinking "they probably could have done that line better". A lot of Japanese games (and media) are translated into English in a fashion that doesn't resolve different manners of speaking the two languages have (although it can lead to some endearing lines/phrases).
EDIT: Stealth_Cobra, not to go into an argument where I agree or disagree with how MGS2's story succeeds or fails, but sacrificing the "sense" of a story is well worth it if it creates "intense feelings". The storytelling is fully subservient (and no more an important servant than a whole bunch of things that make up a game's presentation) to something bigger: the experience (obviously). This is true especially in a videogame, and especially in a videogame like Metal Gear Solid 2.
I would also say you should really get over canon between games. Letting that get in the way is baggage you don't want to be carrying.
For what it is worth, I believe the best way to approach canon in videogame series (among other things with hopelessly difficult canons, namely comic book universes) is that every game has its own separate "timeline" (or, plainly, "story" to sound less sci-fi), where only the events in that game explicitly happen (accounting for role-playing choices) and everything else is only vaguely implied to have happened in a similar enough fashion unless implied otherwise. Even when explicitly stated, that event only exists as it is described in that game. This just means the restrictions of canon should be very loose unless the series actively works to make specific connections explicit (when it isn't consistent, then you discard the canon). Ultimately, the game you are playing (the illusion you are currently immersed in) is more important than the games you are not playing.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Metal Gear can go from amazingly brilliant to utterly atrocious at the drop of a hat.
For better or worse I always stick with it, but it sure is baffling how hit and miss the writing can be.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Binding of Issac is the best game story I've seen in quite a bit.
Developers try too hard, yo.
Developers try too hard, yo.
"I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!"
swazzyswess
Member
Anything Shinji Mikami is involved with.
People saying Bioware, Telltale, MGS... go ban yourself. Come on.
People saying Bioware, Telltale, MGS... go ban yourself. Come on.
Memorabilia
Member
This. Most of the "writers" in the video-game biz just aren't very talented.
Sucker Punch, at least ever since InFamous 2. Nate Fox is nice, but he shouldn't be writing for a realistic fictional world. He will never outgrow his comic roots.
Ubisoft, whoever made Farcry 3 and 4.
It's kinda hard to put a stamp on any developer when it's all about who the writer is. For example, bad writers in our industry who are otherwise not known as such are people like Mac Walters of Bioware or Yefferey Yohalem, but their incompetence does not represent that of the company as a whole.
Bioware always outweigh most of the bad with the good in terms of writing (yeah, yeah, I stil remember Mass Effect 2, 3 and Dragon Age 2 though) but to say Bioware as a developer always has bad writing doesn't ring true to me.
And while 343 Industries didn't do all that well with Halo 4, it's also hard to blame them when it's really their writer, Chris Schlerf who didn't make people satisfied. He's also not at 343i anymore becuase he's working on Mass Effect now.
Ubisoft, whoever made Farcry 3 and 4.
It's kinda hard to put a stamp on any developer when it's all about who the writer is. For example, bad writers in our industry who are otherwise not known as such are people like Mac Walters of Bioware or Yefferey Yohalem, but their incompetence does not represent that of the company as a whole.
Bioware always outweigh most of the bad with the good in terms of writing (yeah, yeah, I stil remember Mass Effect 2, 3 and Dragon Age 2 though) but to say Bioware as a developer always has bad writing doesn't ring true to me.
And while 343 Industries didn't do all that well with Halo 4, it's also hard to blame them when it's really their writer, Chris Schlerf who didn't make people satisfied. He's also not at 343i anymore becuase he's working on Mass Effect now.
Heck yeah, Telltale is awesome. Same with Metal Gear, didn't know GAF had a sizeable population of people who dislike that writing. (I feel that it could be very easy to dislike, lots of one-liners and cheesy sorts of deals like that, but I feel the way they use the characters and music in that series helps make the story really great)
I feel like Bethesda's main stories could be lacking, but those games get by with really good open world exploration.
I don't think David Cage and Quantic Dream is really that bad, just the fact that the story is by far the most important aspect of those games could change how we see it.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
How the fuck did it take 5 pages for someone to mention Tri-Ace? They have earned the lifetime achievement for horrible writing.
They've never been particularly good, but Star Ocean 4 has to be the worst written piece of shit I have ever experienced. That game makes Mighty Morphin Power Rangers look like Shakespeare in comparison.
I'm going to go with Bungie (Halo series + Destiny) and DICE (Battlefield series + Mirror's Edge).
In Bungie's case, I feel like they focus too much on lore, which results in a lack of engaging characters. With DICE, I think they're just bad story tellers. The writing in the original Bad Company was decent, but the overall plot was pretty weak. I don't even need to mention how boring Battlefield 3 was. Mirror's Edge was pretty terrible in this regard.
---
Addressing two of the more controversial choices in this thread:
The only games I've played from David Cage are Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls; but I wouldn't call him a horrible writer. I feel Heavy Rain is rightly criticized, but I adored Beyond. I do agree that he should hire a writing team to help "keep him in check," so to speak. He's definitely got some great ideas floating around.
Hideo Kojima is a very polarizing writer. I think he does an amazing job with world building and characters, but dialogue can be pretty terrible at times. I recently finished chapter four of Peace Walker, and Huey's line
was quite corny. I do love the stories in the MGS games though and am beyond hyped for The Phantom Pain.
In Bungie's case, I feel like they focus too much on lore, which results in a lack of engaging characters. With DICE, I think they're just bad story tellers. The writing in the original Bad Company was decent, but the overall plot was pretty weak. I don't even need to mention how boring Battlefield 3 was. Mirror's Edge was pretty terrible in this regard.
---
Addressing two of the more controversial choices in this thread:
The only games I've played from David Cage are Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls; but I wouldn't call him a horrible writer. I feel Heavy Rain is rightly criticized, but I adored Beyond. I do agree that he should hire a writing team to help "keep him in check," so to speak. He's definitely got some great ideas floating around.
Hideo Kojima is a very polarizing writer. I think he does an amazing job with world building and characters, but dialogue can be pretty terrible at times. I recently finished chapter four of Peace Walker, and Huey's line
"She's not thinking with her head, she's thinking with her heart"
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
Im calling out Crystal Dynamic Tomb Raider reboot. Man, that game had awful storytelling, dialogue, cliche characters up the wazoo (irish drunkman who gets in fights, the ruff and tuff survivor man who is da best role model, the evil professor, the crazy villain stranded on an island who murdered his leader. the friend who is linked to the magic of the island). Ugh, that was painful to get through.
If what you are saying is true, then Heavy Rain is one of the best written stories in gaming. It's quite famous for being able to immerse the player in the emotional context of it's scenerio while making no fucking sense whatsoever. While the story telling may be fully subservient to the experience, the experience is subservient to some kind of meaning. An experience where you merely feel is just sound and fury, signifying nothing. This is where MGS2 succeeds in its post modernist form, where it has the player question the nature of freedom and videogames and the like. There needs to be some take away some theme, and that is usually created within the 'sense' of the story as you put it, though sometimes that may mess with the logical consistancy of the story itself.
Still, while I don't agree with the general gist of what your saying, I do appreciate that you are thinking about what makes a story, particularly a videogame story, good. We need more of these kinds of posts than people who harp on whether a particular line of dialogue could have been snappier or something.
TheAggroCraig
Member
Sonic Team no question, though it got waaaay less tolerable when they changed the VAs again with Sonic Colors.
Naw I like it....chuckle humor, keeps it light
dead souls
Member
Pretty much all of them, which is why I prefer as little story as possible in games.
Lord of Castamere
Member
WD and Unity may be wet farts in the story department but AC3/4 were great so I don't know where that's coming from.
What? Signing vocaloids, shitting on the plot of Snake Eater, and
loli girls in mechs where J-Pop is playing
Peace Walker literally made me feel bad for enjoying Snake Eater, because the plot alone tarnishes the greatness that game had by bridging itself to it. Granted, Peace Walker is one of the best games in the series, but that's because of how it plays. What it offers in narrative is some of Kojima's worst, only beaten by retcon haven Guns of the Patriots.
And Guerilla games. That Killzone. OMG
Wonderful 101 story and Infinite Space is great though. That YURI THE MAN.
The Lone Courier
Member
Yes, I hate silent protagonist with a passion. Especially in BF4 when the side characters were fighting that you, Rucker the leader of the group should have made the decision to bring civilians onto the navy carrier or leave them behind but instead the decision is made for you. Why even present that option, why even make the main character the leader of the group when you are given no control whatsoever.
Bad Company 1 and 2 spoilers
My only problem with Bad Company was that the entire first game is glossed over. In the first game your unit of misfits who are said to expendable go awol and ride off into the sunset with a truckload of gold. Yet in BC2 your are back in the army, no mention of the gold, and for some reason the unit is now part of special operations.
As for as Marlowe I recall him speaking during cut scenes, but silent in game albeit for a few grunts when injured.
No Nintendo yet though..... They kinda don't have story though.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Kojima actually makes entertaining media.
I haven't seen Nintendo yet, I guess everyone forgot about Other M.
GuiltyBystander
Banned
Bungie
Guerrilla
Platinum
Bethesda
Telltale
Guerrilla
Platinum
Bethesda
Telltale
Am I crazy in thinking Destiny's flavour text is actually alright? You know, the stuff on the Grimoire cards... I sometimes enjoy reading about the enemies and lore while having a poo.
The in-game writing, however...
"There are many tales, told throughout the City to frighten children.
Now... the children are frightened anyway."
Most of Blizzards writing is just generally terrible, and it's taken seriously, which is the main reason it's so terrible, if it was ironic it'd be slightly less terrible.
Thankfully they make decent games in general though.
Bungie and Bethesda are up there too.
So the fact that you dislike some of their jokes is enough to say that Insomniac "constantly features bad writing" in their games? Come on now. They are fairly simple stories with fairly simple characters, but hardly badly written.