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NFL 2014 Week 16 |OT| Nobody goes 8-8 like the Buffalo Bills!

M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
WesternHeretic said:
Not when it happens once every 5 years.

Every team has 7 picks (minus trades), every fucking year. And maybe just maybe every 10 year you hit it big on a 5th-7th round guy.

7 fucking chances man, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but fucking 7.

In basketball you have two chances, and the reality of the truth is the 2nd round is already a 90% bust so technically you have one shot per year. You don't hit on that single shot you're fuck.

In the NFL you can fuck up 6 of your 7 shots, and still be okay. Not to mention undrafted guys that make the team, which is rare in the NBA.
Click to expand...

Injuries are so common in the NFL that a great deal of your depth as a team comes from those draft picks and even getting a replacement level player as a backup in most positions is worth a great deal as the grind goes on. Plus those rounds are filled with flawed freak athletes that given the chance can really go places.
 
D

DUFFMCWALIN

Member
WesternHeretic said:
Bears are living off their one Superbowl win, and whatever # of title in the 30's. People think it's some historic franchise, but really they have one Superbowl win. Vikings history is just sad, and Lions history is just downright pathetic.

Eznark going full Eznark.
Click to expand...

As much as we suck this year the last three years have produced more winning history than all three of those teams put together for the last ten years.
 
S

Syrinx

Member
WesternHeretic said:
Not when it happens once every 5 years.

Every team has 7 picks (minus trades), every fucking year. And maybe just maybe every 10 year you hit it big on a 5th-7th round guy.

7 fucking chances man, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but fucking 7.

In basketball you have two chances, and the reality of the truth is the 2nd round is already a 90% bust so technically you have one shot per year. You don't hit on that single shot you're fuck.

In the NFL you can fuck up 6 of your 7 shots, and still be okay. Not to mention undrafted guys that make the team, which is rare in the NBA. Every NFL team grabs handful of undrafted guys that make the 53 man roster.
Click to expand...
What? No. Drafting one good player a year is a recipe for goddamn disaster long term. We're not even necessarily talking star players; just guys who contribute in the system. Drafting in the late rounds isn't putting on a blindfold and throwing at a dartboard.

There's a reason teams like the Seahawks, who find guys like Sherman and Chancellor in the late rounds, are successful while teams like the Jets, who cut their fourth-round pick before he played a damn down for them, tend to struggle.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
ShaneB said:
The Draft matters in all sports. Don't be so ridiculous.
Click to expand...

That's obvious, but we talking about what matters more. Some sports you have more chances, and you have more options. Like in football you can find guys that are undrafted.

For example football undrafted guys

Antonio Gates
Tony Romo
Wes Welker
Rod Smith
John Randle
Kurt Warner

NBA list?

Jeremy Lin
Raja Bell
Jose Calderon
David Wesly
John Starks
Bruce Bowen
Ben Wallace

I mean.... look at those two list. NFL list has guys that are first ballot HOF, NBA list best is two specialty role players.

You can miss on the NFL draft and still be okay, you can't miss in the NBA draft.

Syrinx said:
What? No. Drafting one good player a year is a recipe for goddamn disaster long term. We're not even necessarily talking star players; just guys who contribute in the system. Drafting in the late rounds isn't putting on a blindfold and throwing at a dartboard.

There's a reason teams like the Seahawks, who find guys like Sherman and Chancellor in the late rounds, are successful while teams like the Jets, who cut their fourth-round pick before he played a damn down for them, tend to struggle.
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Dude you're talking to a Seahawks fan of 20+ years man. You think we gets guy like Sherman and Chancellor consistently? They are not good because we drafted them they are good because we DEVELOP them. You develop guys in the NFL, and MLB. In the NBA you pray to god they have talent first and foremost then you pray to god they have work ethic to go with their talent.

Rams fucked up on Sam Bradford... and they are still a near .500 team, the Cavs fucked up on Anthony Bennett ... and it lead them to Andrew Wiggins. You see the difference?
 
G

Gully State

Member
WesternHeretic said:
Not when it happens once every 5 years.

Every team has 7 picks (minus trades), every fucking year. And maybe just maybe every 10 year you hit it big on a 5th-7th round guy.

7 fucking chances man, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but fucking 7.

In basketball you have two chances, and the reality of the truth is the 2nd round is already a 90% bust so technically you have one shot per year. You don't hit on that single shot you're fuck.

In the NFL you can fuck up 6 of your 7 shots, and still be okay. Not to mention undrafted guys that make the team, which is rare in the NBA. Every NFL team grabs handful of undrafted guys that make the 53 man roster.
Click to expand...

You have a lot of chances but also many more holes to fill. 7 chances to address a flawed 52 man roster. Not to mention pro football careers tend to be the shortest. If you miss multiple picks in a rebuilding year draft, your team can be set back for multiple seasons.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Draft trends in the MLB are particularly fun to watch. You can see the longterm damage of wasting your draft picks in a sport that develops tons of minor league ceiling talent.
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
It's obviously true you find way more gems in the NFL draft in later rounds than you do in the NBA.

There's always a former Yugoslavian/Lithuanian/Eastern European player you can find late in the rounds to help solidify your team.

Nikolla Mirotic of the Bulls was drafted 23rd. Stojakovich was drafted 14th by the Kings. Drazen Petrovic was a third round pic.

Toni Kukoc was drafted in the 2nd round by the Bulls in the height of the Jordan/Pippen era. Most championship teams need that Former Yugoslavian baller to help complete the team and go for a title run.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
Gully State said:
You have a lot of chances but also many more holes to fill. 7 chances to address a flawed 52 man roster. Not to mention pro football careers tend to be the shortest. If you miss multiple picks in a rebuilding year draft, your team can be set back for multiple seasons.
Click to expand...

And you also have a lot more chances on un drafted guys, and CFL guys. Brandon Browner anyone? Realistically if a NFL team hit on 3 of their 7 picks that's a success. NBA you miss 2 picks? You're done that's it, it's over there is 0 recovery.

NFL you can miss 1 or two or 3, and sometimes I see teams miss 4+ or 5+ like the mother fucking Colts.

Here check this out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2poq7a/looking_at_the_new_orleans_saints_first_round/

That's the New Orleans Saints. Just FYI in that time span they won a Superbowl.

By the start of next season, I'm hoping to get through all 32 teams. So far, I've done:

St. Louis Rams
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tennessee Titans
New York Jets

Today, I'd like to take a look at my Bucs' division rival the New Orleans Saints.

Overall Notes

When you look at the Saints, they've done really well in the later rounds of the draft, and they've even snagged some solid FA pickups, including a guy you might know of named Drew Brees. In the last decade, the Saints first round crop has only included two Pro-Bowlers: Cameron Jordan and Jammal Brown. However, when you look at their later round picks, they've done amazingly. Some names include Jahri Evans (4th rounder, 2006, 5 Pro-Bowls, four All-Pros), Jimmy Graham (3rd rounder, 2010, 2 Pro-Bowls, one All-Pro), Carl Nicks (5th rounder, 2008, one All-Pro, 2 Pro-Bowls).

The Saints have drafted two Heisman winning RBs in the last decade (well, technically one, Reggie's was vacated): Mark Ingram and Reggie Bush.

Loomis and company have primarily targeted defense in round 1: Six defensive players selected versus four offensive.

No first rounder selected prior to 2009 has remained on the team continuously. Robert Meachem (2007) left as a FA, spent one season in SD and then returned to the team.

Biggest first round hit of the last decade: Cameron Jordan.

Biggest first round miss of the last decade: Sedrick Ellis.

Pick By Pick Analysis

2005 - Jammal Brown (OT, Oklahoma) #13 Overall Brown began his career quickly and brilliantly, ascending to one of the top LTs in the league. He was awarded First Team All-Pro in 2006 and made the Pro-Bowl roster in both the 2006 and 2008 seasons, and also won a Super Bowl with the team in 2009. He tore his ACL in the 2009 season and was shipped to Washington after Jermon Bushrod was able to sufficiently replace him as a starter. Hasn't played a game since 2012. Good player, and one wonders how great he would have been in the long run had he stayed injury free.

2006 - Reggie Bush (RB, USC) #2 Overall Once perceived as a surefire #1 overall pick, the Texans surprised everyone by signing Mario Williams on the eve of the draft. The Saints swooped in and picked Reggie Bush at #2, a (now rescinded) Heisman winner who was one of the most dynamic threats in college football history (who remembers his 560+ all purpose yards game?). If you look at Reggie Bush's time in New Orleans solely as a rusher, it's easy to write him off as a bust. He never topped 600 yards rushing, and up until his final two years, he never averaged more than 4.0 YPC. But when you get deeper into the stat lines, you'll see Bush was a dynamic receiving/return threat, catching nearly 300 balls for 2142 yards in five years-- great numbers for a RB. He also had four punt returns for touchdowns while with the Saints. Bush had some of the highest expectations, perhaps ever coming out of college as a RB. He never lived up to them, nor those #2 expectations, but he's been a a decent pro thus far.

2007 - Robert Meachem (WR, Tenn) #27 Overall Meachem reportedly showed up to camp out of shape and overweight. He hurt his knee and missed his rookie season. He played four sub 1000 yard years before being signed as a free agent by San Diego, where he spent one season before returning to the Saints. Never lived up to first round WR expectations, and hasn't even hit 3,000 yards receiving in a total of eight seasons. Bust.

2008 - Sedrick Ellis (DT, USC) #9 Overall Ellis had a dominant career at USC and was one of those guys I was sure was going to be a stud. His play didn't translate to the NFL. Five years, 12.5 career sacks, and watching him on the field, he seemed to be dominated on the regular. Never lived up to that top 10 status. Bust.

2009 - Malcolm Jenkins (S, OSU) #14 Overall After playing CB in college, he was converted to a safety. Jenkins never put up flashy numbers with the Saints, but was still selected as a second team All-Pro in 2010. He was allowed to leave in free agency and signed with the Eagles this year, where he has ascended to another level of play. Decent pick.

2010 - Patrick Robinson (CB, FSU) #32 Overall To date, Robinson has only received one positively rated season from PFF. In a pass heavy NFC South, he has been average at best. 9 career interceptions. Neither a bust nor a quality player.

2011 - Cameron Jordan (DE, Cal) #24 Overall After a rookie year in which he only got one sack, Jordan has quickly become one of the most underrated DEs in football (minus that 2013 Pro-Bowl selection). The 27.5 career sacks don't tell the whole story. PFF credited him with 57 QB hurries last season. He's also been a solid run stopper. He isn't getting sack totals in the high teens, but he's a dominant force and has exceeded expectations thus far.

2011 - Mark Ingram (RB, Bama) #28 Overall Continuing their trend of selecting Heisman winning RBs, the Saints took Ingram with the 28th pick, forfeiting their 2012 first rounder (they would lose their second rounder that next year due to BountyGate as well). When Ingram has been on the field, he's been decent, occasionally showing flashes of his Heisman dominance (a 172 yard effort against Green Bay, followed by two more 100+ yard performances in the next two weeks). However, Ingram has struggled to stay healthy, even with a RB by committee approach in New Orleans. He has only played one complete season and is yet to surpass 1,000 yards in his career.

2012 - No First Round Pick

2013 - Kenny Vaccaro (S, Texas) #15 Overall Vaccaro started his rookie season off on a rocky start, but midway through he got over the hump and things started to click. He finished his first season with a +3.1 overall from PFF. Things have gotten ugly in year two. Thus far, he has been credited with 18 missed tackles and 10 penalties to his name. Through 14 weeks, he is rated a -16.6 overall, good for the second worst safety rating in professional football. The jury is still out, but he has significantly regressed in year 2.

2014 - Brandin Cooks (WR, Oregon State) #20 Overall Cooks was an absolute monster in college, and he began to show flashes of rookie brilliance before breaking his thumb in week 11. He finished his rookie season with 53 catches for 530 yards and 3 TDs. A thumb break is hardly a career hampering injury, so he will be a fun player to keep an eye on in year 2 and beyond.
Click to expand...

You can't do that shit in the NBA and win a title.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
International drafting is the one thing that sets the other sports above the NFL when it comes to excitement. Ain't no one talented enough to scout all the international teams in Hockey/Basketball/Baseball and rightly compare them to major league level. You can do pretty well in Hockey but that's also had the longest history of international success.
 
Goro Majima

Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
DUFFMCWALIN said:
Besides the Packers the NFC North is a sad sack shit hole of a division. All of the teams are pathetic and haven't won anything in a long time (or ever).
Click to expand...

Unlike Pats fans who pretend that they actually play football games during the season, Packer fans admit and preach this fact every season!
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
wienke said:
Unlike Pats fans who pretend that they actually play football games during the season, Packer fans admit and preach this fact every season!
Click to expand...

Jets were pretty good during most of the Cheatriots run and Miami and Buffalo are pretty good now. None of them are anywhere near as bad as the Vikings and especially Detroit have been.

Plus the Patriots have not been swept by a divisional rival since the Bledsoe era.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
WesternHeretic said:
Not when it happens once every 5 years.

Every team has 7 picks (minus trades), every fucking year. And maybe just maybe every 10 year you hit it big on a 5th-7th round guy.

7 fucking chances man, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, but fucking 7.

In basketball you have two chances, and the reality of the truth is the 2nd round is already a 90% bust so technically you have one shot per year. You don't hit on that single shot you're fuck.

In the NFL you can fuck up 6 of your 7 shots, and still be okay. Not to mention undrafted guys that make the team, which is rare in the NBA. Every NFL team grabs handful of undrafted guys that make the 53 man roster.
Click to expand...

Wait. You seriously believe that the draft matters in the NBA? After the top guys are gone (usually between 3 and 8 guys), it's shitsville. If the Rondo trade doesn't net a lottery pick for Boston, they might as well not have them.

To be a fan of a team that has gotten a franchise qb in the 3rd and an all-pro cb in the 5th and think like that is befuddling.
 
G

Gully State

Member
WesternHeretic said:
And you also have a lot more chances on un drafted guys, and CFL guys. Brandon Browner anyone? Realistically if a NFL team hit on 3 of their 7 picks that's a success. NBA you miss 2 picks? You're done that's it, it's over there is 0 recovery.

NFL you can miss 1 or two or 3, and sometimes I see teams miss 4+ or 5+ like the mother fucking Colts.

Here check this out.

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/2poq7a/looking_at_the_new_orleans_saints_first_round/

That's the New Orleans Saints. Just FYI in that time span they won a Superbowl.



You can't do that shit in the NBA and win a title.
Click to expand...

Most teams miss in the NBA ...especially contending teams. There's maybe a handful of talented players on average every year. Also in regards to the Saints, of course they can miss on draft picks. During that period of time, they have had under center a perennial top 5 QB.
 
W

WesternHeretic

Member
chuckddd said:
Wait. You seriously believe that the draft matters in the NBA? After the top guys are gone (usually between 3 and 8 guys), it's shitsville. If the Rondo trade doesn't net a lottery pick for Boston, they might as well not have them.

To be a fan of a team that has gotten a franchise qb in the 3rd and an all-pro cb in the 5th and think like that is befuddling.
Click to expand...

You guys have absolutely terrible comprehension skills. Here let me put it in simple terms for you ignorant bastards to understand.

TL:DR

In basketball their are less players that can contribute then compared to the NFL. Because they are less players when you are in position you can not miss them.

If you have a top 5 pick in the NBA you can not miss to be successful. You must hit, in the NFL it's okay to miss on top rounds, because you can find value later on to cover up for your earlier mistakes. In the NBA the talent pool is just too thin, you can't recover for your mistakes.

Gully State said:
Most teams miss in the NBA ...especially contending teams. There's maybe a handful of talented players on average every year. Also in regards to the Saints, of course they can miss on draft picks. During that period of time, they have had under center a perennial top 5 QB.
Click to expand...

Thank you for repeating what I just said, no really thank you. And P.S Those contending teams are contending because of high draft picks guys. They might have got them through free agency, but at one time they were draft picks and high one not mid rounders like Gilbert Arenas.

LeBron, Durant, Duncan, Wade, Bosh, Howard, Harden, Westbrook. All of those guys were high draft picks.

It's like you guys are repeating everything I say, and then disagreeing... holy shit mind explosion.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
wienke said:
Unlike Pats fans who pretend that they actually play football games during the season, Packer fans admit and preach this fact every season!
Click to expand...

How come the Pats have had a better winning percentage outside the division than any other team in the league for the last decade? They'd be winning any division they played in far more than not.
 
G

Gully State

Member
WesternHeretic said:
You guys have absolutely terrible comprehension skills. Here let me put it in simple terms for you ignorant bastards to understand.

TL:DR

In basketball their are less players that can contribute then compared to the NFL. Because they are less players when you are in position you can not miss them.

If you have a top 5 pick in the NBA you can not miss to be successful. You must hit, in the NFL it's okay to miss on top rounds, because you can find value later on to cover up for your earlier mistakes. In the NBA the talent pool is just too thin, you can't recover for your mistakes.



Thank you for repeating what I just said, no really thank you. And P.S Those contending teams are contending because of high draft picks guys. They might have got them through free agency, but at one time they were draft picks and high one not mid rounders like Gilbert Arenas.

LeBron, Durant, Duncan, Wade, Bosh, Howard, Harden, Westbrook. All of those guys were high draft picks.

It's like you guys are repeating everything I say, and then disagreeing... holy shit mind explosion.
Click to expand...

No I agree that high draft picks matter but in the NBA, most teams aren't going to be drafting that high in a given draft. So missing on the low first round and second round doesn't matter as much. Also you can piece together a solid team through free agency in basketball. You can't do the same in football. Draft picks as a whole are absolutely essential in nfl because the shelf life of a football player is way shorter and filling holes through FA doesn't work..just look at the Redskins.
 
G

Grover Cleveland

Member
Never forget when David Stern set the Bobcats back five years by sending Anthony Davis to the Hornets when we were the greatest tankers in the history of NBA basketball.

Second most shameful thing he did in the last five years of his tenure behind denying the Paul trade to the Lakers for Basketball Reasons.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Trestmann: "We had to make a change and the two biggest screw ups were Cutler and myself and I like having a job so...."
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Sometimes in Basketball the hardest thing to do is realize you are making a mistake by tanking and end up trading players who legit turn good when you trade them for a pick in a bad year.
 
T

Tom Penny

Member
Gully State said:
No I agree that high draft picks matter but in the NBA, most teams aren't going to be drafting that high in a given draft. So missing on the low first round and second round doesn't matter as much. Also you can piece together a solid team through free agency in basketball. You can't do the same in football. Draft picks as a whole are absolutely essential in nfl because the shelf life of a football player is way shorter and filling holes through FA doesn't work..just look at the Redskins.
Click to expand...

Draft picks are more important in the NBA on percentage basis. Outside the top 15 the odds of landing a good player plummet to probably under 10% and get worse and worse. You can get good players in any round of the NFL. I agree to sustain success you must draft well in the NFL although the Pats have done it and everyone says Belichick is the worst GM...
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
WesternHeretic said:
snip
Click to expand...


Success in the NBA has jack shit to do with drafting. You know what separates the good teams from the bad? Management and in the NBA, their market. The Miami Heat had the 2nd pick in 2008 and took Michael Beasley. They won the championship in 2012 even though Beasley sucks ass. When was the last time a high pick led an NBA team to a title shortly after his debut? Tim Duncan? The best NBA teams sign and trade for their talent, they don't draft them.

I guess you could define success differently than I, but to me, that ultimately means rings.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Speaking of draft.. How does this upcoming year's NFL draft class look? Which positions look to be deep on talent? I don't pay attention to college football.
 
C

chuckddd

Fear of a GAF Planet
Gully State said:
Speaking of draft.. How does this upcoming year's NFL draft class look? Which positions look to be deep on talent? I don't pay attention to college football.
Click to expand...

I believe that, at least in the first round, it's going to be big on the defensive front 7. After that, I have no idea. I hope it's deep in corners, safeties and outside linebackers, but it won't be.
 
K

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Gully State said:
Speaking of draft.. How does this upcoming year's NFL draft class look? Which positions look to be deep on talent? I don't pay attention to college football.
Click to expand...

There is no franchise QB you can build a franchise around so it's not good for 85% of the league which includes all of the Top 10 with the exception of MAYBE the Panthers.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Wait a minute, Plex on PS4 requires a monthly fee? What idiotic customer base enabled this horse shit? Oh yeah, the same ones who ruined free online gaming and made DLC a thing: Xbox Live users.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Crisco said:
Wait a minute, Plex on PS4 requires a monthly fee? What idiotic customer base enabled this horse shit? Oh yeah, the same ones who ruined free online gaming and made DLC a thing: Xbox Live users.
Click to expand...

Didn't the fee start with their iOS release?
 
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