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TrekGAF, which is worse, Voyager or Enterprise
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MisterHero
Super Member
Voyager had some really weird ideas. Example episode: 1) Harry Kim got sucked into space and died, or 2) he got transferred to a ship full of clones and was the only survivor. Episodes like that made me question following the story at all.
man
remember all that foreshadowing that Voyager was going to go through a "Year of Hell", and then instead of being a whole season it was just a two part episode with a reset button at the end?
that was a weird one
I don't think they ever brought that up afterwards either. Like, that Harry Kim was actually not the same one from that crew.
remember all that foreshadowing that Voyager was going to go through a "Year of Hell", and then instead of being a whole season it was just a two part episode with a reset button at the end?
that was a weird one
I don't think they ever brought that up afterwards either. Like, that Harry Kim was actually not the same one from that crew.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Enterprise made the previously unwritten past of trek moronic and pedestrian, but Voyager was by far the worst show - Janeway was terribly written and would occasionally come off as a selfish homicidal maniac, and they turned the fantastic idea of survival in a quadrant with no starbases to restock, and conflict with the maquis into an irrelevant side detail before the first season had barely begun.
IISANDERII
Member
Voyager had a number of outstanding episodes, among the best from any Trek. In my opinion anyway.
Enterprise
Side Note
I really liked some things about Voyager. Being trapped in the Delta quadrant and two crews having to merge to survive, episodes like Year of Hell, new species and stuff like fluidic space, the Doctor and Nelix.
I also liked Enterprise, good or bad I just wanted more episodes of every series.
Side Note
I really liked some things about Voyager. Being trapped in the Delta quadrant and two crews having to merge to survive, episodes like Year of Hell, new species and stuff like fluidic space, the Doctor and Nelix.
I also liked Enterprise, good or bad I just wanted more episodes of every series.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I also liked things from the story bible that never happened in the show. :/
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Enterprise.
Voyage was hit and miss (far more miss), but at least there are a few Voyager episodes I can put right up there with the best of TOS, TNG and DS9. Certainly not many, but episodes like Timeless were fantastic.
At it's best, Enterprise was just good. There are no great episodes of enterprise.
Also the characters. Voyager at least had The Doctor, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Kes. Everyone in Enterprise was forgettable. Archer was outright incompetent. Trip was played as a hillbilly in space most the time, and T'Pol is probably the worst main actor the franchise has ever seen. And then there's the rest of the cast, who has bland, forgettable characters.
Voyage was hit and miss (far more miss), but at least there are a few Voyager episodes I can put right up there with the best of TOS, TNG and DS9. Certainly not many, but episodes like Timeless were fantastic.
At it's best, Enterprise was just good. There are no great episodes of enterprise.
Also the characters. Voyager at least had The Doctor, Seven of Nine, and to a lesser extent Kes. Everyone in Enterprise was forgettable. Archer was outright incompetent. Trip was played as a hillbilly in space most the time, and T'Pol is probably the worst main actor the franchise has ever seen. And then there's the rest of the cast, who has bland, forgettable characters.
Jolene Blalock > Jeri Ryan
Enterprise no contest.
Voyager had Robert Picardo and Jeri Ryan carry the show, and Kate Mulgrew does what she can with her Janeway character despite the writers best efforts (lol)
It also has the Year of Hell two-parter which alone is better than anything in Enterprise.
Heck even Bryan Fuller contributed to the show.
I blame Rob Bierman and the UPN network for ruining it. They wanted something like a procedural with no continuity. Plus I think Ron Moore mentioned how badly things were run and that he actually wishes he had stopped after DS9, even though he was only on the team for a few weeks and only turned in two scripts.
Voyager had Robert Picardo and Jeri Ryan carry the show, and Kate Mulgrew does what she can with her Janeway character despite the writers best efforts (lol)
It also has the Year of Hell two-parter which alone is better than anything in Enterprise.
Heck even Bryan Fuller contributed to the show.
I blame Rob Bierman and the UPN network for ruining it. They wanted something like a procedural with no continuity. Plus I think Ron Moore mentioned how badly things were run and that he actually wishes he had stopped after DS9, even though he was only on the team for a few weeks and only turned in two scripts.
Red Arremer
Member
Voyager is by far the worse of the two shows. It's a guilty pleasure of mine, and it's got several really fun episodes, but most of it is just utterly boring. It also ruined the threatening parts of the Borg, making them an absolute monarchy instead of a true collective, while they also get their asses handed to them. That said, Critical Care, the episode where the Doctor gets abducted into an enormous interstellar hospital, is one of my favorites of all Trek.
Enterprise has a lot of stupid and boring stuff too, and most of the characters are really bland, but seasons 3 and 4 (-especially- 4) are absolutely fantastic. I genuinely enjoyed the pre-Federation races getting to know each other, and the conflict between those species that would eventually found the Federation, while also getting to know other races like the Klingon. I think what saves the show for me a little bit also is Jeffrey Combs as that recurring Andorian commander, he was just absolutely delightful. Also Phlox.
That's the inherent nature of the show's premise. Every other Star Trek show is about a ship being thrown into adventures, where the suspension comes from overcoming the threat or mystery of these adventures, with very little character development. Whereas DS9 is a lot more about character development; there has to be, since the focus of the show (a space station) is static in its nature.
DS9, a lot more than any of the other Trek shows, is about the people on the station, as well as politics, culture of both Federation and non-Federation species (particularly Bajorans, Ferengi, Cardassians and Klingons). And of course this also opens the door for overarcing plotlines - since the characters evolve properly and don't keep themselves in a standstill.
Enterprise has a lot of stupid and boring stuff too, and most of the characters are really bland, but seasons 3 and 4 (-especially- 4) are absolutely fantastic. I genuinely enjoyed the pre-Federation races getting to know each other, and the conflict between those species that would eventually found the Federation, while also getting to know other races like the Klingon. I think what saves the show for me a little bit also is Jeffrey Combs as that recurring Andorian commander, he was just absolutely delightful. Also Phlox.
That's the inherent nature of the show's premise. Every other Star Trek show is about a ship being thrown into adventures, where the suspension comes from overcoming the threat or mystery of these adventures, with very little character development. Whereas DS9 is a lot more about character development; there has to be, since the focus of the show (a space station) is static in its nature.
DS9, a lot more than any of the other Trek shows, is about the people on the station, as well as politics, culture of both Federation and non-Federation species (particularly Bajorans, Ferengi, Cardassians and Klingons). And of course this also opens the door for overarcing plotlines - since the characters evolve properly and don't keep themselves in a standstill.
On the one hand, Enterprise gets good in the third and fourth seasons, while Voyager has good episodes, but never a good season.
On the other hand, Voyager is bad in an entertaining way, whereas when Enterprise was bad, it was justbad.
Gonna give the slight nod to Voyager. Enterprise's good seasons just aren't good enough.
On the other hand, Voyager is bad in an entertaining way, whereas when Enterprise was bad, it was justbad.
Gonna give the slight nod to Voyager. Enterprise's good seasons just aren't good enough.
Nostremitus
Member
I actually like Enterprise, so...
googleplex
Member
Enterprise is arguably worst but Voyager had more more wasted potential.
While last two season of enterprise were pretty good though. Archer is just the worst captain in Starfleet history. Janeway was just a crazy murderer.
Tapal's tits >>> Seven of Nine's tits.
While last two season of enterprise were pretty good though. Archer is just the worst captain in Starfleet history. Janeway was just a crazy murderer.
Tapal's tits >>> Seven of Nine's tits.
There was little to no continuity in the show. The only characters who had discernable growth in terms of their characters were again, Robert Picardo and Jeri Ryan.
And Harry Kim has got to be the most useless character in Trek lore. I heard a rumor he was supposed to be killed at some point, but they kept him around for whatever reason.
I mean, this has got to be the lowest point for any Trek character....
Red Arremer
Member
They wanted to kill him off, but the actor was getting really popular, so they decided to keep him on the show.
deltatheta
Member
Enterprise is way worse. Voyager had bad writing, but Enterprise had bad writing, bad characters (except for Phlox), bad acting, and didn't feel like Star Trek.
But I have to admit, Enterprise had really good production values, especially for TV sci-fi.
But I have to admit, Enterprise had really good production values, especially for TV sci-fi.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I'd argue a homicidal maniac is a heck of a lot more fun to watch than an incompetent boob.
DS9 is easily the best non TNG/TOS series and arguably the best Trek series period.
Voyager, no contest. Enterprise was a lot better even though it had the stupid T'Pol/Trip stuff.
Objectively I might agree, but at least I cared enough about enterprise to be annoyed at the ending, Voyager just sucked.
acheron_xl
Member
Kim was pretty terrible, but it's absolutely hilarious how much of a typical token non-character Travis Mayweather is. That guy is just the worst. Chakotay is the next worst, then Kim.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Kim was underutilized, but lets not forget that the best episode of Voyager, "Timeless", got an absolutely amazing performance out of him.
I don't think it was so much "became popular", as made a "TV's sexiest stars" list.
I don't think it was so much "became popular", as made a "TV's sexiest stars" list.
Red Arremer
Member
Poor Chakotay, his role was even worse than poor Riker. I think Robert Beltran even had it with the show and publicly excoriated the writers, which led to them pretty much writing his character out of the show without killing him (and giving him a super random romance with Seven of Nine)
Ok, yeah, Kim was only good in Timeless. Other than that they made him the standard goofball partner of Tom Paris and gave him nothing to work with other than that weird crush on Seven of Nine.
Lol, Kim as TV sexiest stars? Pickings must have been slim around those times.
So the story goes both of them were so frustrated with the writers over having nothing to do that they suggested a romance as a complete joke, and the writers thought they were serious.
Are you serious? I would take ANY character in Enterprise over any character in Voyager save for like... The Doctor and... Seven of Nine? That's not even to say that either of those two characters were better than the entirely of the Enterprise crew, it's just that I'd absolutely take them over some of the lower rung Enterprise crew hands down.
Anyone remember the episode of Enterprise with Zombie Vulcans, that was good fun.
Are you serious? I would take ANY character in Enterprise over any character in Voyager save for like... The Doctor and... Seven of Nine? That's not even to say that either of those two characters were better than the entirely of the Enterprise crew, it's just that I'd absolutely take them over some of the lower rung Enterprise crew hands down.
Anyone remember the episode of Enterprise with Zombie Vulcans, that was good fun.
deltatheta
Member
Even if you hated everyone else, the Doctor, Seven of Nine, and Janeway were the main characters of the show in the later seasons. All the episodes focused on them.
hobblygobbly
Member
Voyager.
Enterprise actually wasn't that bad, it started to get good after two seasons. Also it was interesting because of all the prequel stuff. I'd like to have seen what happened but it got cancelled because they fucked up the first two seasons and people lost interest and when they began to do some good with the show (the later two seasons), it was becoming interesting.
Voyager was just... I don't know. I didn't like what they were doing with some stories/plots.
But to be honest, I like all the Star Treks in their own way.
For me, TNG > DS9 > Enterprise > Voyager. TOS isn't there because I think it stands on its own and I didn't watch it originally and honestly had a hard time getting into it when I did decide to watch it. TNG was my first Star Trek. I love all of them and wish there could be a good new one
Enterprise actually wasn't that bad, it started to get good after two seasons. Also it was interesting because of all the prequel stuff. I'd like to have seen what happened but it got cancelled because they fucked up the first two seasons and people lost interest and when they began to do some good with the show (the later two seasons), it was becoming interesting.
Voyager was just... I don't know. I didn't like what they were doing with some stories/plots.
But to be honest, I like all the Star Treks in their own way.
For me, TNG > DS9 > Enterprise > Voyager. TOS isn't there because I think it stands on its own and I didn't watch it originally and honestly had a hard time getting into it when I did decide to watch it. TNG was my first Star Trek. I love all of them and wish there could be a good new one
I feel the same way, so you're not alone. I never have understood the hate.
Although, I don't really agree with people saying she doesn't follow protocol. She did break the rules a few times in big ways because the circumstances demanded it and it was a always a huge moral issue with her. The rest of the time, she pretty much followed Starfleet protocol to a tee. She was usually the one getting on the crew's backs about NOT following protocol.
Forsythia
Member
Voyager is definitely worse. I also don't get why people like Seven that much, after she was introduced it seemed like she was the center of attention of the show. She really was there only for her tits. And even without her the show was severely flawed, and I just find it boring and bland. And those dumb holodeck episodes (yes, we need all the energy we can get, lets waste it on the holodeck!), ugh!
Enterprise had a rough start, but it ended on a high note (ehm, without the final episode, that is). The last 2 seasons were really good. I actually cared about some of the characters, unlike Voyager.
Enterprise had a rough start, but it ended on a high note (ehm, without the final episode, that is). The last 2 seasons were really good. I actually cared about some of the characters, unlike Voyager.
Let's no be unfair, she was there because of her tits, but she was a good actress who at least got something to do with that character. She wouldn't have become a focus if she couldn't hold up in the acting department.
The thing is I wouldn't rate Seven or the Doctor above everyone else on Enterprise, it's just that those are the only characters who I would say 'well I'd take them over a Maywether". Decent as they were, they were permeated and surrounded by terrible.
googleplex
Member
There is no excusing her straight up murdering Tuvix one minute then talking about up holding the virtues of the prime directive the next.
OuterLimits
Member
Voyager had some bad episodes but overall was tolerable. Enterprise was just awful.
Voyager also had the occasional great guest actor.
Here's Leland Orser in a sorely underrated performance as a psychotically deranged hologram.
Here's Leland Orser in a sorely underrated performance as a psychotically deranged hologram.
They never play that up though, one moment she's enshrining the rules of the Federation as holy trinity and the next she's blatantly disregarding tenants without a even a mention. If they had played her up as an ruthless opportunistic hypocrite that would have been great, but in one episode she's blatantly committing genocide based on principle and in the next Voyager is 30 seconds away from a warp core meltdown and she's saying 'HOLD FIRE THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER WAY!'. It wasn't character, it was zero consistency; 'Janeway' was whatever the whims of whoever wrote that episode decided, the only constant was 'Janeway must always be right no matter the situation' which lead to a terrible incoherent character that was insulting to the viewer.
A Black Falcon
Member
Voyager is the best Star Trek TV series, Enterprise the worst one. There's your answer, in my opinion.
Enterprise was such a horrible, horrible letdown... such a disaster after the greatness of Voyager.
Enterprise was such a horrible, horrible letdown... such a disaster after the greatness of Voyager.
Probably Voyager. I don't dislike either show as much as most people, but Voyager had a lot of bland episodes. Outside the Doctor, the cast was fairly bleh too. The aliens were the most interesting bit.
Enterprise had that TOS feel, and the Terran Empire episode was top notch. Just the dumb time war stuff muddled everything.
Enterprise had that TOS feel, and the Terran Empire episode was top notch. Just the dumb time war stuff muddled everything.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Voyager is the best Star Trek TV series, Enterprise the worst one. There's your answer, in my opinion.
Yeah... in the mirror universe.
I thought Voyager was alright when I watched it as a kid. Not mind-blowingly awesome as DS9, but still pretty ok.
Enterprise on the other hand actually made me lose interest in Trek completely as it was too damn boring. Temporal Cold War seemed like an interesting concept, but messed up the execution too early for me to care about it.
Enterprise on the other hand actually made me lose interest in Trek completely as it was too damn boring. Temporal Cold War seemed like an interesting concept, but messed up the execution too early for me to care about it.
FeenixRising
Banned
I'd have to say Enterprise, even though overall I liked it.
Seasons 1 and 2, whilst sometimes silly and dicked around with Trek lore and science, were mostly enjoyable.
Season 3 made a huge mistake in having the Xindi arc last the entire season. It should have been, at most, half. It just dragged on too long and some of the episodes would have worked just fine outside the larger arc, so just felt like time wasting.
Season 4 was where the show really hit its stride though. Once the silly time travel stuff was out of the way we got some incredible episodes that did exactly what Enterprise set out to do, give us more backstory and setup.
Then it was ruined by the worst final episode in Star Trek, and possibly all television, history.
Seasons 1 and 2, whilst sometimes silly and dicked around with Trek lore and science, were mostly enjoyable.
Season 3 made a huge mistake in having the Xindi arc last the entire season. It should have been, at most, half. It just dragged on too long and some of the episodes would have worked just fine outside the larger arc, so just felt like time wasting.
Season 4 was where the show really hit its stride though. Once the silly time travel stuff was out of the way we got some incredible episodes that did exactly what Enterprise set out to do, give us more backstory and setup.
Then it was ruined by the worst final episode in Star Trek, and possibly all television, history.
A Black Falcon
Member
that title would still belong to DS9
It's close between the two of them, they're both great, but Voyager has seven good seasons, while the first few seasons of DS9... weren't as good.
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