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The Order 1886 Review Thread

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N

nib95

Banned
TheSlySoul said:
They focused on making a movie out of a game and forgot to write a good script for it.
That is the worst sin you can really do with it. Heavy Rain at least had a good script.
Click to expand...

Lol. The script in The Order is far better than Heavy Rain, and far better than most shooters of it's kind. It's the ending that a lot of people take issue with, as it apparently leaves too many questions unanswered (I haven't finished the game yet so I can't comment on that). But the actual writing, characters and acting are all superb imo. Far more believable and grounded than the writing and performances from Heavy Rain.
 
K

Korten

Banned
Zen_Arcade said:
I always want bad games to fail. If bad games don't fail, it means they're probably succeeding. And if they're succeeding, there is a good chance that it's going to influence other games and possibly make them bad as well. You should want bad games to fail.

I'm not saying people should be jumping up and down the aisles with joy, but I find it hard to get mad at someone for being enthused that a terribly short game with very little to offer in the way of game play is in fact being called out for what it is. That's the last place I want video games to go and if it's a bad game, I want people to be as ruthless to it as possible.

It's a lot better then the alternative, where we all pretend like something isn't bad just so the feelings of the people making it won't get hurt.
Click to expand...

Actually, no not really. Cause if a bad game does good, there's always a chance to try again. The alternative being the company in question goes under and any attempt to fix past wrongs is gone. It's not like if a game fails they go: "Oh darn, we'll try again next time."

There will be no next time. Which I guess for a lot of gamers is perfectly fine.

jpax said:
Your agenda seems to be to twist scepticism and criticism into something bad, which negativity would imply.
Click to expand...

What. Did I say criticism is bad? So now your putting words in my mouth? Greeat. Sorry, but there was hardly any scepticism happening. Oh there was it, and it's perfectly fine- but it appears people are rewriting most of the hate that has been spewed as secpticism.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Scoops said:
1998169-1315159660139.png
Click to expand...
The real truth is that the "80s/90s/early-2000s" scale is made up, rose-tinted bullshit. The modern scale is the way that is has always been (with some exaggeration for comedic effect, of course).
 
C

Constantine81

Banned
hipbabboom said:
There should be space in the video game business to make products which are targeted to excel in the visual presentation so they can be judged on those merits alone. Why should such visual masterpieces be tied down by expectation of people who do not understand the true goals of the product. I read many fans wanting to pick this game up based on how it looks so is there no rating system that protects the desires of said fans to be able to take pride in their purchases and know they're receiving a top-rated visual experience without it being dirtied by the expectation of people who don't appreciate the goes of presentation the product has set for itself? I don't know man... I just feel for people who are getting bummed out by these reviews and treated like what they want from the product is a mediocre gaming experience when what they want is in fact an excellent visual experience. If a game says its a platformer then we shouldn't attack it for not being a RTS and in the same right, if a game says its visually stunning then we shouldn't attack it for gameplay. People are even recommending not to purchase this game hence victimizing people who pre-ordered it. Its rather insensitive to come out and tell people not to buy something they've put money towards... AFTER THE FACT. No one likes to be judged for their purchasing decisions so this judgmental atmosphere at the very least seems rather anti-consumer. Aren't media supposed to be on the consumer's side? Finally on the idea that the product is too short... a good product should leave you wanting more. Like when people say you've overeaten when you feel bloated and you should stop eating when you feel you are about to get full.. in essence, you should be wanting more before you stop eating; this is the proper way. Overeating will make you obese and there's nothing good about that so why are we trying to promote over-gaming like its something healthy. The Order should be commended for not piling on the fat with unnecessary content, variety, game length and extra modes and collectable. It cares about the consumer's gaming health. Judged based on its visual fidelity and respect for consumer health, I'd give the order a 9.7 out of 10 but Metacritic won't carry my review on the "reviewer" section so I'll leave it here and I ask journalist to be kinder with their review. We need more products like the order. Dare I say it... I'd like to The Order another one of these!
Click to expand...

Wall of text aside, all I see is that you think I should enjoy this game based on visuals alone. In an interactive medium that's just not the case. Video games are multi-faceted and must fire on several cylinders. I think most would say that the interactive part of video games is its greatest strength, and so even if a game looks great that alone does not make it a great game. Nobody seems to be denying that the game looks great, but what does it offer as a game? The answer seems to be not very much. If you want something to be judged based solely on its visuals perhaps you ought to consider critiquing paintings instead. I don't feel bad for people that pre-ordered and are not stuck with just an okay product.

Why should anyone feel bad for a consumer that makes poor decisions? Pre-ordering is a risky proposition. Would you pre-order new utensils before ever having used them? Would you pre-order an album without ever having heard one track from it? This is why reviews exist, to inform the consumer prior to making a purchasing decision. When you pre-order (especially in a digital space) you've already purchased something that, for all intents and purposes, could be completely shit. At first I just stopped buying season passes because that's essentially the same thing. You don't know what the future holds for that game in terms of DLC. You could be getting a wealth of content, or just a few stupid skins. Now, I skip on both pre-ordering and season passes.
 
C

clutch.as.it.gets.

Member
The reason i play games is because this medium is - usually - a highly interactive one.

So for me seeing a game like the order who wants to be non-interative and cinematic with all its cutscenes and quick time events... - its everything i hope games are becoming not.

Its the reason i lost interest early when it become clear what they wanted to do with this game and in my opinion no game who wants to place the player in the passenger seat should be rewarded.
 
R

RisesRises

Banned
1- As always, surprised by people surprised, we know there is something wrong with the gameplay since we first saw it in action.

2- As always, surprised by people claiming the youtube guy was a liar, while right now many players (and reviewers) ended the game in 6 hours or less.

3- As always, surprised by people defending a game or a studio as if they were playing their lives here- they should rather defend this industry from sharks, because it truly needs help right now.

4- Common, we are talking of $10 an hour or more

The very one thing that has to be said about The Order, and we could have said it a long time ago, is that the devs made a big mistake choosing that very very very cinematic experience, that frustrate you in a way we've never seen before.
They also probably lacked of times and chose to focus on visuals from the start.

Mistakes everywhere.
At least from a quality perspective.
 
M

MegaSackman

Member
thebloo said:
They didn't. The reviewer did, the others just came along for the ride. I give up anyway. I see that demanding any form of respect for journalists is a big no-no, as long as they're bashing the subject of the day.

And I didn't set up any false dichotomy, you did.
Click to expand...

The so called professionals are laughing and people are demanding heads... hey, the game isn't even that bad according to their standars lots of 6, 7, and 8. But here we are... feast.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Deadpool_X said:
Come on, now. I mean, the guy has a bit of a point. Look at the metacritic page for the game. Here you go. It currently sits at a Metacritic score of 65. However, thst number is being vastly inflated by fansites and bloggers, not the sites commonly trusted when it comes to reviews. For as much as some people want to talk about websites having bias against Sony exclusives, they don't want to dismiss Sony fansites that have given the game top-marks.

Ultimately, what you think of the game is up to you, but if metacritic went based on professional sites only, and not fansites, the score would be significantly lower.
Click to expand...
Considering that his way to legitimize his views was something to the effect of "lol its a movie, I watched it on YouTube," I don't feel like he has a great perspective on the game. I don't mind hearing legitimate criticism, but the "YouTube" stuff is ridiculous.
 
B

boltz

Member
OnADock said:
Quarterbacks don't get letter grades. Would you like a surgeon messing up what kind of drug he needs to use 41% of the time?
Click to expand...

Yup, sports is an outlier in this regard because no one is expected to have a 100% batting average or shooting percentage.

But you sure as hell would not want a cashier to mess up 40% of their transactions, a garbage collection service that misses 40% of their pickup, or a publisher who releases a game that is 60% complete.
 
M

Mooreberg

Member
People are not wrong to point out how awkward the journalist comments look. These are the same people telling everyone to be nicer in comment sections. But the backlash is proportional to everything that was seen and heard prior to release. Fewer stupid comments from the developers, and this would have just been viewed as an underwhelming game with nice visuals.

The part I do not understand about the TB "twitlonger" is the comment about deflecting criticism from Sony. Is he saying they game should have been delayed more to fill it out in terms of content? That Sony made a big error in judgment by throwing a AAA budget at a team that was accustomed to making portable games with fewer expectations? Does Sony even own this studio? Some mistakes were obviously made, but it looks like they allowed RAD to make what they wanted to make, and say what they wanted to say. Unfortunately the product and the PR campaign have been a mix of lackluster and baffling. Chalk it up as a failed experiment in attempting to to defy market expectations. Everyone has known for a while what most people have to come expect out of a $60 product, and it is not this. Short of having delayed it further or absorbing the cost of nuking it while still in development (like the Stig game at SSM), I'm not sure what else Sony could have done. It wasn't some SCEA executive or community blogger making completely asinine statements to the press.

I'm still somewhat amazed that a developer made the jump from PSP to PS4 and achieved that level of visual fidelity and design, but unfortunately it does not look like any of the other positive aspects of their track record made the transition. "Better luck next time" is the best you can offer in this situation.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
abadguy said:
Is it? I think if there were great gameplay here people could have looked past a "bad script". This is what happens when game developers forget which medium they are working in.
Click to expand...

He's saying that the story falling short is an egregious blight considering how the game is structured, not broadly suggesting that story is the most important component of games in general.
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
Korten said:
Actually, no not really. Cause if a bad game does good, there's always a chance to try again. The alternative being the company in question goes under and any attempt to fix past wrongs is gone. It's not like if a game fails they go: "Oh darn, we'll try again next time."
There will be no next time. Which I guess for a lot of gamers is perfectly fine.



What. Did I say criticism is bad? So now your putting words in my mouth? Greeat. Sorry, but there was hardly any scepticism happening. Oh there was it, and it's perfectly fine- but it appears people are rewriting most of the hate that has been spewed as secpticism.
Click to expand...
This happens all of the time. Do you think that there are no current studios that have made bad games in the past? A company going under isn't the only alternative to a game being bad and getting panned. If that were the case we would have significantly less video game studios then we have.
 
F

fleon

Neo Member
hipbabboom said:
There should be space in the video game business to make products which are targeted to excel in the visual presentation so they can be judged on those merits alone. Why should such visual masterpieces be tied down by expectation of people who do not understand the true goals of the product. I read many fans wanting to pick this game up based on how it looks so is there no rating system that protects the desires of said fans to be able to take pride in their purchases and know they're receiving a top-rated visual experience without it being dirtied by the expectation of people who don't appreciate the goes of presentation the product has set for itself? I don't know man... I just feel for people who are getting bummed out by these reviews and treated like what they want from the product is a mediocre gaming experience when what they want is in fact an excellent visual experience. If a game says its a platformer then we shouldn't attack it for not being a RTS and in the same right, if a game says its visually stunning then we shouldn't attack it for gameplay. People are even recommending not to purchase this game hence victimizing people who pre-ordered it. Its rather insensitive to come out and tell people not to buy something they've put money towards... AFTER THE FACT. No one likes to be judged for their purchasing decisions so this judgmental atmosphere at the very least seems rather anti-consumer. Aren't media supposed to be on the consumer's side? Finally on the idea that the product is too short... a good product should leave you wanting more. Like when people say you've overeaten when you feel bloated and you should stop eating when you feel you are about to get full.. in essence, you should be wanting more before you stop eating; this is the proper way. Overeating will make you obese and there's nothing good about that so why are we trying to promote over-gaming like its something healthy. The Order should be commended for not piling on the fat with unnecessary content, variety, game length and extra modes and collectable. It cares about the consumer's gaming health. Judged based on its visual fidelity and respect for consumer health, I'd give the order a 9.7 out of 10 but Metacritic won't carry my review on the "reviewer" section so I'll leave it here and I ask journalist to be kinder with their review. We need more products like the order. Dare I say it... I'd like to The Order another one of these!
Click to expand...

This has to be a parody, the Ideal Poster kind.
 
F

faridmon

Member
GhostWriter24 said:
I wonder if this game is going to be the Folklore of the early-PS4 age. Looked back on kindly, but very harshly judged initially.
Click to expand...

It was never harshly judged. It was loved from day 1. Its mechanics have been criticized and rightly so, the game is filled with annoying and questionable design decisions..
 
K

Korten

Banned
Zen_Arcade said:
This happens all of the time. Do you think that there are no current studios that have made bad games in the past? A company going under isn't the only alternative to a game being bad and getting panned. If that were the case we would have significantly less video game studios then we have.
Click to expand...

When you spent over 5 years developing it, pouring a lot of money into it. There's going to be repercussions if they can't make back all of the money they just lost.
 
C

Cavalier

Banned
Interfectum said:
In the world of AAA game development one bad game can sink an entire studio.
Click to expand...

Yep. When developers take risks to do something different and fails, gamers mock them and trash their 3-5 years worth of work.

When developers don't take risks, play safe and just make another generic zombie/dude-bro shooters, gamers whine and complain about them.

This is why we can't have nice things.
 
S

system11

Member
Derpyduck said:
You're not the first to suggest this, but you're every bit as wrong as everyone else who suggested it. The success of Walking Dead and TLOU illustrates that the press/media are very open to those types of games. The Borderlands story-driven game just released to much higher acclaim than the traditional shooter Borderlands title.
Click to expand...

Except neither of those games were announced when everyone was excitedly looking to the next generation to provide 'next gen gameplay experiences' which were never going to happen.

I'm not talking about the mediocre reviews, I'm talking about posting a picture of a comfy chair and claiming it's a TO controller, and scores which would be more appropriate for bug ridden Ubisoft games.
 
A

ArkkAngel007

Member
Opus Angelorum said:
I think the most damning thing is that it took 5 years of development.

Now either there was a lot of internal development issues or the people in charge (Sony) were negligent and let RAD 'realise their vision' completely unabated.

I applaud the risk taken, because releasing a single-player only game that can be beaten in an evening is utterly insane.
Click to expand...

I'm certain most of the first 3 years was on getting that engine together, pre-production, possibly scraping at least something along the way given that's a bit of a long haul from the launch of the PS4 where hardware wasn't even finalized until mere months prior to it.

But a lot could still be done in two years, so it'll be interesting to learn, if we ever do, what happened.
 
D

Deadpool_X

Banned
orthodoxy1095 said:
Considering that his way to legitimize his views was something to the effect of "lol its a movie, I watched it on YouTube," I don't feel like he has a great perspective on the game. I don't mind hearing legitimate criticism, but the "YouTube" stuff is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

And I would completely agree with you on that front. He could've defended his argument better. Still, the trusted reviews are, sadly, making this game that looked so promising once upon a time, now look like a dumpster fire.
 
R

RM8

Member
I wouldn't be too worried about the developers going down after this. In the end this is a pretty, cinematic shooter on a popular console. It might still make enough money. Still, it's insane that they spent 5 years making this, it was probably incredibly expensive.
 
D

DNAbro

Member
Cavalier said:
Yep. When developers take risks to do something different and fails, gamers mock them and trash their 3-5 years worth of work.

When developers don't take risks, play safe and just make another generic zombie/dude-bro shooters, gamers whine and complain about them.

This is why we can't have nice things.
Click to expand...

The second one sells so they don't give a shit if people complain about genericness. If it's a bad game and doesn't sell then that is a problem.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
Cavalier said:
Yep. When developers take risks to do something different and fails, gamers mock them and trash their 3-5 years worth of work.

When developers don't take risks, play safe and just make another generic zombie/dude-bro shooters, gamers whine and complain about them.

This is why we can't have nice things.
Click to expand...

Taking risks means you are more likely to fail. They apparently failed to make a good game in many reviewer's/people's eyes.

I wouldn't call 6.5 mediocre, but no one should be rewarded for that product.
 
EventHorizon

EventHorizon

Member
monreader said:
What I don't get is why someone from Sony or Sony Santa Monica did not step in earlier. There has been bad impression of this game from the very start, so why did someone not step in and try change it? Surely they should have known that the game was not getting well recieved from what they had shown us.
Click to expand...

I get the impression that Sony thought this is what they wanted. The wanted a game to showcase the graphical capabilities of the PS4. They also wanted a game to target another sector of the gaming public. I suspect that they were too clever by half in trying to check off things from their whistling that they forgot that they still had to make a good game.
 
J

jpax

Member
Korten said:
What. Did I say criticism is bad? So now your putting words in my mouth? Greeat. Sorry, but there was hardly any scepticism happening. Oh there was it, and it's perfectly fine- but it appears people are rewriting most of the hate that has been spewed as secpticism.
Click to expand...

Scepticism is a really good base for criticism and changing scepticism to negativity gives you bias which is not a good base for a critique.
Negativity is "I hope this game tanks!"
Scepticism is "from what I have seen and read of this game I am sure it will tank."
Actually most of what I have seen was the scepticism approach.
 
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