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[KKRT00]

There is far too much fanboying and not enough TECH going on in this thread. I'm about to change this.

Every since the first DF thread on The Order, there have been a lot of arguments going on about the relative "sharpness" of its image quality. Since I like discussing technical aspects with a solid technical foundation, I thought it would be very useful to have some sort of objective metric for "sharpness".

Before going into what I came up with, I'd like to remark that sharpness is not, in and of itself, a virtue. It's only one factor in IQ, and a very sharp picture can also suffer from terrible spatial and temporal aliasing.

That out of the way, what is sharpness really? I'd argue that it makes sense to define the "sharpness" of an image by the amount of high-frequency detail it shows. Or, to put it more accurately, the amount of high-frequency detail in an image is indicative of its sharpness, as with low sharpness you also can't get any high-frequency detail.

Based on this idea, I've written a very simple Matlab script which illustrates the Fourier transform of images. You can read these like this, somewhat simplified: low-frequency (large-scale) image artifacts will cause higher values towards the center, and the closer you get to the image borders the higher frequencies you see.

As an initial test, I wanted to see if this type of illustration gives any important information in a scenario which is rather clear. Therefore, I chose two equivalent screenshots from DF's comparison of the Ryse PC and XB1 versions. One of those renders at 1080p, the other at 900p while upsampling, and they are almost exactly equivalent otherwise.

Ryse XB1

Ryse PC

As you can see, the absolute magnitude of the FFT is significantly higher further out towards the edges for the PC version, indicating its higher level of fine-grained detail visible due to the higher rendering resolution. This is a good result for my methodology, I'd say.

However, Ryse on PC rendering at native resolution (without downsampling) is still not a game anyone would call particularly "sharp". It uses lots of postprocessing and rather heavy AA. Therefore, as a really really sharp (almost "too sharp") baseline, I tested the script on an old Oblivion screenshot, I had, with no postprocessing AA (only MSAA and sharp downsampling).

Downsampled Oblivion with MSAA

Well, that's that.

So now, how does The Order fare? The following is one of 3 screenshots I tried, which looked quite similar in their overall impression in the frequency magnitude space -- this is the most representative of the 3.

The Order 1886

Based on this, my conclusion is that The Order 1886 is sharper than 900p Ryse on XB1, slightly less sharp than Ryse at 1080p on PC, and a lot less sharp than rendering without postprocessing / post-AA (duh!).

Very interesting. Can You test those shots too? Those are different IQ settings, upsampled/downsampled/native/with and without TAA, from the same area.
http://kkrt.minus.com/mba3lKkTL8oNCE

 

[BradleyLove]

Very interesting. Can You test those shots too? Those are different IQ settings, upsampled/downsampled/native/with and without TAA, from the same area.
http://kkrt.minus.com/mba3lKkTL8oNCE

Tech analysis of Ryse has no place in this thread. Every single Order thread, man.

 

[KKRT00]

Tech analysis of Ryse has no place in this thread. Every single Order thread, man.

Ok, so provide upsampled from 900p to 1080p, dowsampled from 4k, without AA and with AA screenshots from The Order 1886 for sharpness analysis of current heavy post-processed games.

 

[tuxfool]

Based on this idea, I've written a very simple Matlab script which illustrates the Fourier transform of images. You can read these like this, somewhat simplified: low-frequency (large-scale) image artifacts will cause higher values towards the center, and the closer you get to the image borders the higher frequencies you see.
.

Very neat!

What do you consider Image Artifacts in this test?

 

[Durante]

In that sentence, "artifacts" as in "everything shown on the image". Really, the FFT doesn't distinguish obviously, that's also why I put the disclaimer that "sharpness" by itself is not necessarily a virtue.

Edit 2: you mind linking that modded oblivion shot?

Sure, here. As I said, it's an old downsampled shot I took roughly 6 years ago, with, I believe, 32xCSAA. These days I'd actually say it's a bit too sharp, but that's what made it a good testing baseline for this purpose.

 

[BradleyLove]

Ok, so provide upsampled from 900p to 1080p, dowsampled from 4k, without AA and with AA screenshots from The Order 1886 for sharpness analysis of current heavy post-processed games.

Why?

The Order is what it is. It can only be experienced in a single way, as intended by the creators. The Order, unlike Ryse, exists only in a single form; there's no other versions to compare sharpeness with.

So other games being sharper is moot.

By a measurable metric, XB1 Ryse has been shown to be blurrier than The Order (although I fail to understand the relevance). Get your tongue out of CryEngine's metaphorical arse and deal with it.

The constant shitting up of threads with your CryEngine/Ryse one man circle-jerk is stretching tedium beyond any reasonable limits.

 

[omonimo]

I really do not think a generational leap is a great way to describe it. Crysis on low vs. Very High looks generationally different.

The Order game is doing a lot of things other games do too (and other games even do the same things better), it is just that this game has a meticulous attention to detail and a consistent artistic vision.

Generational? Nah. Consistently great looking? Yeah.

Wait a minute: you mean The Order vs Crysis on low it's not generationally different? Of course, if you compare what ps4 can do over a better pc, it's another matter. But this comparison wouldn't have a logic or people maybe forget the difference on power between a ps4 and a good rig which is massive. What Order offer on console, it's definitely a generation leap. For console.

 

[Anarion07]

snip

And who are you to think you know anything about resolution?

Spoiler

Great analysis and a great idea!

 

[plasmawave]

Sure You can, but pretty similar to upscaled games from 900p

Bench and wall textures here http://i.imgur.com/sPztmfC.png

900p games
http://abload.de/img/screenshot-original4p6jmk.png
http://abload.de/img/screenshot-original399k7v.png
http://i.imgur.com/yIg3Qic.jpg

They seem fine to me?

 

[DR2K]

It's pretty embarassing that people so invested into a video games success can't see the point in a small gameplay analysis for perspective on the visuals.

 

[IcyEyes]

The Order, right now, is easily the best looking game out there.

 

[KKRT00]

Why?

The Order is what it is. It can only be experienced in a single way, as intended by the creators. The Order, unlike Ryse, exists only in a single form; there's no other versions to compare sharpeness with.

Why are You in tech thread again?

I'm not even bother to comment rest of Your post, but fucking stop insulting me.

 

[BradleyLove]

Why are You in tech thread again?

I'm not even bother to comment rest of Your post, but fucking stop insulting me.

I'm in a tech thread about The Order. I want to read about what The Order is doing. I don't want to read about what Ryse or any other game are doing. If I want to read about those titles, I'll go read their tech thread. Not exactly hard to understand.

And as for the bolded... Touched a nerve I guess. Keep on jerkin, man.

 

[Dictator93]

Wait a minute: you mean The Order vs Crysis on low it's not generationally different? Of course, if you compare what ps4 can do over a better pc, it's another matter. But this comparison wouldn't have a logic or people maybe forget the difference on power between a ps4 and a good rig which is massive. What Order offer on console, it's definitely a generation leap. For console.

Ha. My bad in the wording there.
I meant t say, the order doesn't look generationaly different than other games like Ryse, Infamous, or KZSF. It just does a lot of the things those games do better with a focused aesthetic. At the same time, those games do something better than the order.

As a counterpoint to what a generational difference is in my mind, I offered up the example found in the game Crysis. Where the game on low looks like Far Cry 1 (tons of shaders tuned to SM 2.0... and Very High looks like Crysis.

And as for the bolded... Touched a nerve I guess. Keep on jerkin, man.

He was asking Durante to run some images with different levels of sharpness through the mathlab set up. Not a big deal man, no reason to be hostile.

 

[BradleyLove]

Ha. My bad in the wording there.
I meant t say, the order doesn't look generationaly different than other games like Ryse, Infamous, or KZSF. It just does a lot of the things those games do better with a focused aesthetic. At the same time, those games do something better than the order.

As a counterpoint to what a generational difference is in my mind, I offered up the example found in the game Crysis. Where the game on low looks like Far Cry 1 (tons of shaders tuned to SM 2.0... and Very High looks like Crysis.


He was asking Durante to run some images with different levels of sharpness through the mathlab set up. Not a big deal man, no reason to be hostile.

Come on, man. He's asking for Ryse images in a The Order thread, in order to push his narrative. It has no relation to the topic at hand at all. And a tongue-in-cheek comment or two is hardly being hostile.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

He's asking for Ryse images in a The Order thread, in order to push his narrative.

No, its for comparisons sake.
I think comparisons to other great looking games are very fitting for tech analysis threads.

 

[Skux]

The Order, right now, is easily the best looking game out there.

Agreed. Never mind consoles or PCs, it's the best looking game full stop. I don't see another studio surpassing RAD for a while.

 

[DieH@rd]

The Order, right now, is easily the best looking game out there.

I fully agree. Incredible tech, art style and attention to detail. ACU is winning in some specific locations, but on the whole, ACU is much more broken.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I'm in a tech thread about The Order. I want to read about what The Order is doing. I don't want to read about what Ryse or any other game are doing. If I want to read about those titles, I'll go read their tech thread. Not exactly hard to understand.

And as for the bolded... Touched a nerve I guess. Keep on jerkin, man.

Comparing implementation of tech in two different works often helps us understand the tech in one work.

 

[low-G]

There needs to be some better post processing analysis beyond just stuff like checking what resolution the DoF renders at.

@Durante, does your analysis rate the 'damage' tone mapping/bloom does to image quality? Because some post processing effects can both convey detail (such as specularity, albedo) and destroy traditional details (such as matte textures).

 

[Inuhanyou]

In terms of shader advancement, yes, the order is a generation apart from any other game out there today. I think as we go into the future, if there's any place for graphically intense games in that future, advanced shaders such as those used in The Order will be commonplace, and will truly go much further in replicating the "CGi-lite" look The Order has compared to a majority of games today.

This is one of the major things i feel that will essentially end that 'videogamey' look every game has ever had in 3D rendering, all the stuck out obvious polygons of models and whatnot, we won't have to deal with that kind of thing. Its honestly exciting. This is tech demo lvl stuff.

 

[Metfanant]

I mean, because of the post processing sometimes You cant even see textures properly on screenshots. Thats a bit more than 'a bit blurry'. The post-processing is literally destroying textures, in the same way FXAA or upscaling does. I just find this word fitting the process.

while that is factually incorrect...its a good thing we dont play games as 1fps screenshots then huh?...

at the end of the day which is more important? that details hold up under motion, or when a random screen shot is taken?...because in motion (how we actually play and view games) The Order is on a whole new level...

 

[low-G]

Motion in The Order, like many modern games, conveys more info than even just sampling additional pixels could convey alone. You get extra detail beyond what a diffuse texture alone could deliver. This has been true since bump mapping & specularity came into games, as well as lighting (rather than shading), but is only increasing.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Durante being Durante

I like this approach somewhat, (and i like it significantly more than this discussion as a whole

), but I would be curious what something like Mirrors Edge, which I would except to have a large quantity of low frequency detail, would look like. It may be difficult to disentangle art style from sharpness using this method.

 

[ScepticMatt]

There is far too much fanboying and not enough TECH going on in this thread. I'm about to change this.

Did you account for film grain? If so, what's it's distribution?

(noise is a major source of "information", as I'm sure you're aware)

 

[low-G]

I like this approach somewhat, (and i like it significantly more than this discussion as a whole

), but I would be curious what something like Mirrors Edge, which I would except to have a large quantity of low frequency detail, would look like. It may be difficult to disentangle art style from sharpness using this method.

It should look exactly like Oblivion's if not clearer, unless the methodology is severely flawed. "Sharpness" shouldn't be based on the extreme changes of texels... Simply the number of differences per area.

light grey->grey should equal black->white

 

[icecold1983]

I really do not think a generational leap is a great way to describe it. Crysis on low vs. Very High looks generationally different.

The Order game is doing a lot of things other games do too (and other games even do the same things better), it is just that this game has a meticulous attention to detail and a consistent artistic vision.

Generational? Nah. Consistently great looking? Yeah.

youre referring to crysis 1 right?

 

[thelastword]

This article was bad, It's like everyone in the media is reluctant to give the order it's props. We know reviews tossed the order a new one, but don't be coy in your article as to what this game has accomplished graphically.

I mean, when you state in your article that "sub-native games at 900p is about the same as the order's IQ" is a compelling argument, I'm not even sure if I can take this seriously, it's as if KKRT co-edited this piece.

So many negatives in an article on what is the best looking game out there across all platforms.

The article starts with the angle of "it's a narrow game" hence such great visuals, which is not a compelling argument at all. Ok fine, it's a narrow game, what about IQ then? "it's a bit blurry, as a matter of fact 900p ryse having close IQ is quite the compelling argument" but here's the clincher, "we're not even sure that RAD is actually using MSAA". seriously? The jury is still out they say. SMH.

This article downplays the game more than it praises it, and the tone of the article does not help either, so many buts, perhaps and we thought are all heavily in season. Apart from the jury that's still out on MSAA, they're disappointed in texture filtering, they're disappointed in physics, they say it does not give what was promised.

In the conclusion it was once again ending where they started. Of course, the gameplay is nothing special and they go on about the "narrow game design" spiel. It's crazy, but I have never played one open world cover shooter, maybe they have. I just can't understand why people can't judge games for what they are. Furthermore, there have been open world games that have set graphical benchmarks, ISS comes to mind, any type of game can lead the pack or at least be up there, open world or not, so why so much talk about how corridor-y the order is, because it's the best looking game out now?

Not all open world games are appealing to look at, not all close quarters games are appealing to look at either, when a game comes along and looks better than everything else, that game deserves it props, yes, without the diminishing "it's narrow quarters game design".

Finishing their conclusion, it's the continued talk about soft IQ and filmlike presentations, as if that's a new thing. The order's IQ (littered with PP effects) is less about being filmlike and more about the atmosphere it creates. Games having soft IQ with tonnes of pp effects, film grain etc..is not new either, games with black bars have been there for a minute. One of the most popular tps's had black bars in RE4 way back when on the gamecube.

In all of this talk about IQ and soft looking games, I can't help but remember KZ2, this game had a tonne of pp effects coupled with QAA, guess what, that game is still a looker today, moreso than it's sharper looking cousin in KZ3. The atmosphere that KZ2 created was never matched by it's sequel. That's the point really, the 4xMSAA + temporal AA plus the heavy pp effects brings a level of IQ to the order that's not replicated in any game right now, there's no nasty looking jaggies on anything in the world be it far or close and what really helps that, is it's native resolution.

 

[Noobcraft]

In that sentence, "artifacts" as in "everything shown on the image". Really, the FFT doesn't distinguish obviously, that's also why I put the disclaimer that "sharpness" by itself is not necessarily a virtue.

Sure, here. As I said, it's an old downsampled shot I took roughly 6 years ago, with, I believe, 32xCSAA. These days I'd actually say it's a bit too sharp, but that's what made it a good testing baseline for this purpose.

I'm curious if you could do Infamous SS and Forza Horizon 2 as well

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

There is far too much fanboying and not enough TECH going on in this thread. I'm about to change this.

Every since the first DF thread on The Order, there have been a lot of arguments going on about the relative "sharpness" of its image quality. Since I like discussing technical aspects with a solid technical foundation, I thought it would be very useful to have some sort of objective metric for "sharpness".

Before going into what I came up with, I'd like to remark that sharpness is not, in and of itself, a virtue. It's only one factor in IQ, and a very sharp picture can also suffer from terrible spatial and temporal aliasing.

That out of the way, what is sharpness really? I'd argue that it makes sense to define the "sharpness" of an image by the amount of high-frequency detail it shows. Or, to put it more accurately, the amount of high-frequency detail in an image is indicative of its sharpness, as with low sharpness you also can't get any high-frequency detail.

Based on this idea, I've written a very simple Matlab script which illustrates the Fourier transform of images. You can read these like this, somewhat simplified: low-frequency (large-scale) image artifacts will cause higher values towards the center, and the closer you get to the image borders the higher frequencies you see.

As an initial test, I wanted to see if this type of illustration gives any important information in a scenario which is rather clear. Therefore, I chose two equivalent screenshots from DF's comparison of the Ryse PC and XB1 versions. One of those renders at 1080p, the other at 900p while upsampling, and they are almost exactly equivalent otherwise.

Ryse XB1

Ryse PC

As you can see, the absolute magnitude of the FFT is significantly higher further out towards the edges for the PC version, indicating its higher level of fine-grained detail visible due to the higher rendering resolution. This is a good result for my methodology, I'd say.

However, Ryse on PC rendering at native resolution (without downsampling) is still not a game anyone would call particularly "sharp". It uses lots of postprocessing and rather heavy AA. Therefore, as a really really sharp (almost "too sharp") baseline, I tested the script on an old Oblivion screenshot, I had, with no postprocessing AA (only MSAA and sharp downsampling).

Downsampled Oblivion with MSAA

Well, that's that.

So now, how does The Order fare? The following is one of 3 screenshots I tried, which looked quite similar in their overall impression in the frequency magnitude space -- this is the most representative of the 3.

The Order 1886

Based on this, my conclusion is that The Order 1886 is sharper than 900p Ryse on XB1, slightly less sharp than Ryse at 1080p on PC, and a lot less sharp than rendering without postprocessing / post-AA (duh!).

Fascinating stuff man

 

[A More Normal Bird]

For those interested in this sort of thing Alec Moody, a freelance artist who worked on the game, has posted an art dump of the models he produced for the game. Really clean, high quality stuff.

They'd already qualified game scope with the start of the sentence, I assumed people had read the sentence in context?

Art style? it's a tech analysis.

So with the qualifiers "narrow scope" and "consoles", the only game The Order is competing with is Ryse ... unless you want to say there's a last gen game? So the sentence is essentially "perhaps it's more impressive than Ryse"? Do we need the perhaps?

I don't think you've quite understood my point. Neither of those things preclude art style or game scope being brought up to dispute a (hypothetical) claim of "best graphics ever". The narrow scope qualifier is not attached to the claim in question; the statement here is that The Order has perhaps the finest real time graphics to date because it has a narrower scope, not that The Order has perhaps the finest real time graphics to date for a game with a narrower scope. For an extreme example, if all open world games still looked like GTA3, then a writer could quite confidently say that a game with narrower scope like The Order had better graphics than any open world title, even when taking into account the differing scales.

As for "do we need the perhaps?" Well, yes. Perhaps (lol) not "need", but qualifiers like this are routinely used in criticism for a reason. A band's newest album is "arguably their finest work yet," a sportsman is "one of the greats," because as I said in my original post, often-times making a more conclusive statement adds nothing substantial whilst also opening up an unnecessary debate. If Digital Foundry say that The Order has the best graphics ever, then people start talking about Star Citizen or modded PC titles. If they say it has the best graphics on console, then they are pressured with every graphically impressive title afterwards to say whether or not it wrests the crown. "This looks better but has a choppier framerate," "this one is full-HD not letterbox bullshit" "this one has better tech but less consistent art" "how dare you say Red Dead Revengeance is more impressive than The Order 2:1887 because of it's broader scale when you said 1886 was the best and the sequel is way less linear?" etc...

 

[MisterR]

Exactly. It's almost as if some wanted it to be there to complain.

There is no point in it being there at all in a technical review.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Durante always brings the interesting.

People get so worked up over nothing, Sony fans in particular because the output is pretty impressive in my opinion.

It was a great read, and I'm glad they're getting tech details.

 

[hesido]

[...interesting tech analysis...]

Can you do a sharpness analysis for a blu-ray movie, and maybe a 4K clip of a movie/video?

And maybe add a temporal component to it to to visualize shimmering? (you'd need uncompressed video, and you'd maybe select the section with the highest high-frequency detail)

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

The graphics on the order make me very happy to be a PS4 owner. I am very optimistic towards seeing how amazing games will look on the PS4 in the future. The order looks absolutely stunning, so bring on Uncharted 4 and the rest of these exclusives.

 

[GHG]

What I want to know is how much overhead they had at 30fps. Since the frame rate is rock solid that would indicate that the game would run above 30fps if the frame rate was unlocked.

How much better could the game look if they pushed harder without compromising on a minimum of 30fps? Is it possible that through further optimization we could see visuals like this at 60fps? How much further can the boundaries be pushed?

Exciting times ahead indeed.

 

[Durante]

I'm curious if you could do Infamous SS and Forza Horizon 2 as well

Here's Infamous SS:

And here's Forza Horizon (the original 360 one -- obviously this was tested with a 720p image):

Both are much sharper than either Ryse or The Order. Very good results for both I'd say given their relatively good AA for the console space.

This made me want to try more "last-gen" games. Here's Atelier Escha & Logy, which has 4xMSAA:

A lot of "sharpness" there, even though the game has a cel-shaded art style. This is good.

Here's Killzone 2:

I think the horizontal "squishing" is due to the Quincunx AA sample reuse (which also induces blur, obviously).


Finally, here's a insanely downsampled PC shot of Far Cry 4:

I think one notable feature of this and the DS'd Oblivion shot (besides, obviously, the sheer magnitude of high-frequency components) is that the frequency patterns are almost round, and not as directional as the other shots. This set me to thinking that, with "ideal" IQ, you should probably not get any strong horizontal or vertical bars at the center.

 

[thelastword]

I don't think you've quite understood my point. Neither of those things preclude art style or game scope being brought up to dispute a (hypothetical) claim of "best graphics ever". The narrow scope qualifier is not attached to the claim in question; the statement here is that The Order has perhaps the finest real time graphics to date because it has a narrower scope, not that The Order has perhaps the finest real time graphics to date for a game with a narrower scope. For an extreme example, if all open world games still looked like GTA3, then a writer could quite confidently say that a game with narrower scope like The Order had better graphics than any open world title, even when taking into account the differing scales.

As for "do we need the perhaps?" Well, yes. Perhaps (lol) not "need", but qualifiers like this are routinely used in criticism for a reason. A band's newest album is "arguably their finest work yet," a sportsman is "one of the greats," because as I said in my original post, often-times making a more conclusive statement adds nothing substantial whilst also opening up an unnecessary debate. If Digital Foundry say that The Order has the best graphics ever, then people start talking about Star Citizen or modded PC titles. If they say it has the best graphics on console, then they are pressured with every graphically impressive title afterwards to say whether or not it wrests the crown. "This looks better but has a choppier framerate," "this one is full-HD not letterbox bullshit" "this one has better tech but less consistent art" "how dare you say Red Dead Revengeance is more impressive than The Order 2:1887 because of it's broader scale when you said 1886 was the best and the sequel is way less linear?" etc...

So basically, the order should not get called the best looking game because "you want to avoid debates and stuff"....I get it.

Is Star Citizen out yet though? and since when do modded pc games enter best of graphics debates? Have any modded pc game won best graphics for any year? Siggraph,AGDA,Spike, IGN, Gametrailers etc..

What I want to know is how much overhead they had at 30fps. Since the frame rate is rock solid that would indicate that the game would run above 30fps if the frame rate was unlocked.

How much better could the game look if they pushed harder without compromising on a minimum of 30fps? Is it possible that through further optimization we could see visuals like this at 60fps? How much further can the boundaries be pushed?

Exciting times ahead indeed.

I don't know if they'd be able to get a solid 60fps with that type of fidelity. I'm sure there's a lot they could do to improve on their next go though, but something tells me they'd stay at 30 and push the graphics even more.

I think if Uncharted 4 hits 60, it may open up the possibility, who knows what's in store later in the generation, but as it stands the order has really served as an eye opener for what's in store. I'm thinking of two 60fps games atm GOW4 by Barlog and GT7 and knowing the pedigree of these devs I think they have a shot at eclipsing the order even at that framerate, but UC4 will be the litmus test obviously.

 

[d9b]

No, its for comparisons sake.
I think comparisons to other great looking games are very fitting for tech analysis threads.

Well, in 1886 everything is happening in real-time, so it's like comparing oranges and potatoes. Just saying.
I am also more interested in finding out how this marvel of techical wizardry was achieved on PS4, Ryse was analysed to death already, so...

 

[d9b]

Durante always brings the interesting.

People get so worked up over nothing, Sony fans in particular because the output is pretty impressive in my opinion.

It was a great read, and I'm glad they're getting tech details.

What is this shit?

 

[Hypron]

Good post.

Cheers for the great work. Just wondering — would you mind uploading the source code for those of us that own MATLAB (OCTAVE could potentially work too depending on your use of toolboxes)? I feel like quite a few people in this thread would love to test out lots of different pictures.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

That right there is what originally hyped me up with this game. What on earth happened during the development that took out what clearly is a very next-gen feature?

That was disappointing to me' all that talk of that 'test room' the journalists saw with the materials destruction and it didn't make it into the final game. I think somebody in the OT said it best, it seems like RAD reached a 'pens down' situation and all ambitions and new material stopped for polish so it would make (a later than planned) release date.

I would love to see a post mortem on this game; see what they had to leave out just to get the game on shelves, what they had to leave and whether they did just have to stop creating and start polishing. The game is beautifully polished, but visibly unfinished; a 'make the best of what you have' situation.

 

[Donos]

I think a dev session on the tech behind The Order at GDC would be very interesting. It's good to see what the PS4 can accomplish and hopefully gets traded between other devs.

 

[dark10x]

I'm pleased that most of the thread has delivered interesting discussion - Durante's stuff especially is excellent!

This article was bad, It's like everyone in the media is reluctant to give the order it's props. We know reviews tossed the order a new one, but don't be coy in your article as to what this game has accomplished graphically.

You are, without a doubt, looking for controversy where there is none. The supposed tone that you take away from the article is NOT the intended one. These are designed to be critiques - that's how I've ALWAYS gone about my business. It's not a message board post and I'm not just going to lump endless praise on it. This isn't an IGN review. I actually love the game. In fact, it was a genuinely awesome experience but I can admit that it has issues as well. You're making this a black and white issue - either you love it or you hate it. It doesn't have to be so stark.

I mean, when you state in your article that "sub-native games at 900p is about the same as the order's IQ" is a compelling argument, I'm not even sure if I can take this seriously, it's as if KKRT co-edited this piece.

That is not what was said. I suggested that there could be arguments that the softness of the image doesn't raise it far beyond what we saw with 900p in Ryse but go on to state that The Order produces better image quality. The idea is to entertain the possibility that additional resources could be saved and similar quality results can still be achieved. Also, I cite it as one of the best examples of image quality in games because that's exactly what it is. It is *NOT* the best example of image quality in console gaming but it's one of the very best.

The article starts with the angle of "it's a narrow game" hence such great visuals, which is not a compelling argument at all. Ok fine, it's a narrow game, what about IQ then? "it's a bit blurry, as a matter of fact 900p ryse having close IQ is quite the compelling argument" but here's the clincher, "we're not even sure that RAD is actually using MSAA". seriously? The jury is still out they say. SMH.

You're just not reading into it properly, I dare say. I feel as if you're going into the article expecting some sort of anti-Order bias when that's not the case. It's VERY important to point out that this is a narrow game as its scope is precisely WHY it is able to achieve the results it does. I'm not bashing the game, I'm providing a reasonable explanation as to why they were able to achieve such results.

My uncertainly in regards to MSAA is, as such, due to the fact that I cannot say with certainty that it is actually using it. I'm inclined to say yes, but there are examples of artifacts that seem out of place for MSAA. As such, I'd rather express uncertainty than make a false claim. I try hard never to make claims about features that I'm not completely certain about.

The entire thing is written from a critical point of view not designed to slander the game, rather, push readers to think about the points raised. It's an attempt at presenting a balanced finding rather than a page full of praise.

 

[Terbinator]

...

Out of interest was the Order image analysed using the letterboxing or the raw 1920*800 image? Do you know what effect if any it would have the graph?

 

[omonimo]

What the level of AF? I see different capture in the various thread and my God, in different area seems almost to see trilinear filter O_O

 

[Sean*O]

Kind of weak to point out "well, it's the best graphics but that's because of the narrow scope". Has anyone else ever made graphics like this within any scope? No.

 

[Terbinator]

Kind of weak to point out "well, it's the best graphics but that's because of the narrow scope". Has anyone else ever made graphics like this within any scope? No.

Unity, C3 offer more scope whilst trading blows.

 

[Durante]

Out of interest was the Order image analysed using the letterboxing or the raw 1920*800 image? Do you know what effect if any it would have the graph?

In all cases I first crop out black bars (and UI elements if there are any), those would distort the analysis.

 

[Terbinator]

In all cases I first crop out black bars (and UI elements if there are any), those would distort the analysis.

Thanks, thought as much