I think SFA was a good game despite the obvious franchise shoehorn but I won't defend it.It was obvious that the wheels were falling off with the release of DK64. StarFox Adventures was truly uninspired and nothing that they have done since seems to capture the "magic" that everyone is nostalgic for. TimeSplitters 2 is the last "Rare" game I feel I played, and I doubt Kinect Sports, Nuts & Bolts or Viva Pinata would have made a serious impact on Nintendo hardware sales.
If they've got the talent and the vision they should relaunch/revamp the Rare brand and let their games speak for themselves, rather than alluding to a sense of (rose-tinted) nostalgia that inevitably leaves people disappointed.
Nintendo got like $300 million for their stake in Rare. I'd say they got the hell outta Dodge when the getting was good.
That last part is pure speculation isn't it? Or do we have proof that was the reason? It does make a lot of sense, though. One less IP that MS can take from Rare.Nintendo owned 50% of the company, while Rare had control of the other 50%, but was looking for a buyer. For a while, they assumed Nintendo would totally buy them up, and Nintendo even extended their timeline for that to happen, but they never went for it. Rare then went out looking for respective buyers. First, they went to Activision, and they had a deal, but it fell through in the last minute. Microsoft came along and made a quick deal to buy up 50% of Rare, as well as ownership of their IPs. Nintendo didn't want to share a studio with a console competitor, so they ended up selling their 50% for a very nice sum, and re-branding Dinosaur Planet as "Star Fox Adventures" late into development to ensure that Microsoft didn't get that game for themselves.
I don't know. The Gamecube failed because of very little support outside of Nintendo's own 1st party developers and a few 3rd party deals. Rare could have really helped them out that gen.
I will, however, tell you you're factually incorrect at saying it all went down after DK64. Are you forgetting about the excellent, multi-million seller, and better-than-Goldeneye-in-every-way Perfect Dark in 2000? Or the critical darling (but commercial failure for reasons beyond Rare's control) Conker's BFD in 2001? Rare had the ball rolling and firmly in grasp all the way until the death of the N64!
That isn't even close to being true.Nuts & Bolts and the Viva Piñata games were (are) better than anything Rare developed for the Nintendo platforms.
This I can 200% agree with.Rare's last genuinely great game was Conker 15 years ago. They've made some decent/good games since then, mainly viva piñata, but they haven't made anything even close to the tier of dkc, banjo, or conker. They've made a whole lot of crap games as well.
It is."rare is dead" - neogaf
That last part is pure speculation isn't it? Or do we have proof that was the reason? It does make a lot of sense, though. One less IP that MS can take from Rare.
Even if it were true, those games bombed. They wouldn't have helped the Wii, and 360 gamers let them die.Nuts & Bolts and the Viva Piñata games were (are) better than anything Rare developed for the Nintendo platforms.
Rare's output that gen:
- Star Fox Adventures
- Grabbed by the Ghoulies
- Conker: Live & Reloaded
Kameo: Elements of Power, Viva Piñata, and Perfect Dark Zero were all in the works, but didn't make it out until the following gen.
Rare was on the decline even when they were working with Nintendo. I don't think Ninty misses them.
Retro more than filled the western void.
Rare's output that gen:
- Star Fox Adventures
- Grabbed by the Ghoulies
- Conker: Live & Reloaded
Kameo: Elements of Power, Viva Piñata, and Perfect Dark Zero were all in the works, but didn't make it out until the following gen.
The most damaging thing of Nintendo relinquishing its shares of RARE, wasn't so much the company itself, but some of the intellectual properties lost with it. Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct could have been very useful to Nintendo moving forward with the Wii.
However, RARE was only one of the constituents affected by Iwata's restructuring. RARE, Left Field Productions, and Silicon Knights were all dropped as Nintendo affiliated studios. Nintendo also ended its relationship with Factor 5 who was not only developing system tools for Nintendo platforms, but tried to pitch a Pilotwings and Kid Icarus prototype. Nintendo Software Technology took a serious hit with Project Hammer being cancelled "because it was too core" and lost about half its staff. Nintendo of America as an autonomous production unit was relieved of their duties, and all their development contacts alongside it.
Killer Instinct is probably in the best shape it's ever been in though.It hurts me more that MS took Rare's IPs more than anything else. Nintendo could use Perfect Dark, Killer Instinct and Banjo right about now.
This is kind of disingenuous. Rare was bleeding staff members after they became Microsoft, and from the reports on the cultural shift, Microsoft changed the development culture of Rare for the worst.
It astounds me when I read stuff like this and realize just how much has Nintendo mismanaged anything outside of Japan. Their lack of vision and care for the west is hurting the company more than anything right now.I'm not super harsh on Iwata, but him selling Rare - and letting go of all of the companies they had ties with - makes me overall feel negative towards his tenure as CEO. I remember the whole thing with Project H.A.M.M.E.R. being cancelled for being too core-focused, which really stands out to me as good evidence that Iwata during the Wii era did not care about the loyal audience.
That said, with respect to Rare, the logic behind cutting them loose was absurd. Okay, yeah, they had a middling game with Star Fox Adventures and accounted for only so many sales figures. That goes without saying. Did they somehow forget though that there games before that have been exceptional and successful? Nintendo has a worse library of games made by them on average than Rare, to be darned honest. In not buying up the company when they had the chance, they lost some mature IPs like Perfect Dark, and they could have held onto the James Bond license so that Nintendo could keep going with a new Bond game after how successful GoldenEye was. It (or Perfect Dark) could have been their Halo.
This is kind of disingenuous. Rare was bleeding staff members after they became Microsoft, and from the reports on the cultural shift, Microsoft changed the development culture of Rare for the worst.
However, RARE was only one of the constituents affected by Iwata's restructuring. RARE, Left Field Productions, and Silicon Knights were all dropped as Nintendo affiliated studios. Nintendo also ended its relationship with Factor 5 who was not only developing system tools for Nintendo platforms, but tried to pitch a Pilotwings and Kid Icarus prototype. Nintendo Software Technology took a serious hit with Project Hammer being cancelled "because it was too core" and lost about half its staff. Nintendo of America as an autonomous production unit was relieved of their duties, and all their development contacts alongside it.
No, losing Rare itself was the most damaging part. Losing some of Rare's IPs isn't quite as bad.The most damaging thing of Nintendo relinquishing its shares of RARE, wasn't so much the company itself, but some of the intellectual properties lost with it. Perfect Dark and Killer Instinct could have been very useful to Nintendo moving forward with the Wii.
Yeah, all of those were big mistakes as far as I'm concerned. Iwata's abandonment of the successful strategies that had led to the N64's success in the US was a big mistake. Sure, Microsoft's entry was going to make things hard, but Nintendo pretty much just surrendered that audience without much of a fight. I don't think the '90s team would have let that happen. Iwata's strategy of third party partnerships with mostly Japanese teams while abandoning almost all of their closest Western teams did more harm than good for Nintendo. Sure, the Japanese partnerships led to some good things, but they lost as much or more than they gained, and didn't get nearly as long-lasting partnerships in most cases, either.However, RARE was only one of the constituents affected by Iwata's restructuring. RARE, Left Field Productions, and Silicon Knights were all dropped as Nintendo affiliated studios. Nintendo also ended its relationship with Factor 5 who was not only developing system tools for Nintendo platforms, but tried to pitch a Pilotwings and Kid Icarus prototype. Nintendo Software Technology took a serious hit with Project Hammer being cancelled "because it was too core" and lost about half its staff. Nintendo of America as an autonomous production unit was relieved of their duties, and all their development contacts alongside it.
Kameo and PDZ released in 2005 and would have been Gamecube games had they stayed with Nintendo, guaranteed. Viva Pinata released in early '06, so had that game still been made it'd probably have been early Wii (maybe late GC, probably not).Rare's output that gen:
- Star Fox Adventures
- Grabbed by the Ghoulies
- Conker: Live & Reloaded
Kameo: Elements of Power, Viva Piñata, and Perfect Dark Zero were all in the works, but didn't make it out until the following gen.
Also, I really don't see Nintendo making use of the Perfect Dark IP.
I'll take Retro, Monolith Soft and this new alliance they seemed to have formed with Bandai Namco over Rare any day.
Starfox Adventures was a fitting last hurrah for the partnership.
No, losing Rare itself was the most damaging part. Losing some of Rare's IPs isn't quite as bad.
Of course they would have. It would have outsold Metroid Prime and Geist.
The Stampers are more to blame than Nintendo IMO
Rare's output that gen:
- Star Fox Adventures
- Grabbed by the Ghoulies
- Conker: Live & Reloaded
Kameo: Elements of Power, Viva Piñata, and Perfect Dark Zero were all in the works, but didn't make it out until the following gen.
This pretty much, they offer Nintendo to buy their remaining stock but they overpriced themselves that Nintendo didn't want to pay for it.
Plus they were looking for a way out by any mean possible.
It's not like Microsoft has capitalized much on this purchase. I just think Rare's time ended after the N64.
It's not like Microsoft has capitalized much on this purchase. I just think Rare's time ended after the N64.
They were forced to sell the founders sold there shares to Microsoft.
Is there any particular reason why their output was so much smaller with the Gamecube and Xbox compared to the N64? Was it because of the sale to Microsoft and the subsequent platform shift?
Remember, Rare also released 4 Game Boy Advance games after Microsoft bought them (7 if you include the DKC ports):
-Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge
-Banjo Pilot
-It's Mr. Pants
-Sabre Wulf
Rare isn't dead. Nuts and bolts was a superb game. I wish it had been a new IP but its still great despite not being good as the previous games. If Microsoft released it on PC I would without a doubt buy it again.
Nuts & Bolts and the Viva Piñata games were (are) better than anything Rare developed for the Nintendo platforms.
We're talking about a multiplayer first-person shooter here. Outside of Metroid Prime Hunters and Steel Diver Sub Wars, Nintendo rarely even dipped its toes into that type of game. Then you have the aesthetic style and realistic guns, which I can't see Nintendo working with.Of course they would have. It would have outsold Metroid Prime and Geist.
You're saying Metroid Prime didn't set the world on fire but you can't compare the GameCube and N64. The competition from Sony in the GameCube era needs to be taken into consideration. I can guarantee if everything played out the same but Nintendo had rare still in that era it wouldn't have mattered whatsoever.
Release metroid prime on the n64 and it would have done just as good as Rares fps's.