I personally think He enjoyed the review of the game, and didn't think about what was said about reviewers. Obviously I could be wrong but his review of the game was fair.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Angry Joe The Order 1886 Review.
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
- Start date
I personally think He enjoyed the review of the game, and didn't think about what was said about reviewers. Obviously I could be wrong but his review of the game was fair.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Developers are entitled to their opinions, they are just people the same as you or I and like us we'd probably be somewhat miffed if someone flippantly dismissed years of effort from themselves and their friends.
Expect human beings to act like human beings! Why place developers -particularly backroom, or non-spokesperson types- on a pedestal of "PR approved behaviour only"?
Its funny, on one hand we demand honesty, but on the other God help-em if they actually show any sort of human foible.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Wow, this game looks like shit. Almost like a testament to the whole, "Do all AAA games deserve the $60+ pricing" questioning lately, for a game like this, despite being really pretty, this looks to be worth $10-$15, at the MOST.
Yep, this. Even if you think they're handling it in an immature way, nobody owes an apology for having an opinion. Come on.
This "apologize" culture is ridiculous. He didn't spew racism or hate speech, so he owes no one anything.
It's really frustrating to see people back away from their opinions the moment a group of people on the internet disagrees, prompting an "apology" that they only give because of pressure anyways.
The devs can have a say about the reviews just as much as the critics do about the game. It may paint them in a less professional manner, but it's their right. Doesn't mean it won't have long term effects though, but that may be worth the risk.
It's hard not to feel like that sometimes on GAF or when I listen to the Giant Bombcast.
Then I realize I've really never played games that aligned with a lot of the mainstream opinions. Reviewers quite often shit all over my favorite genre, JRPGs. People here think Final Fantasy XIII is a plague upon the gaming world. Opinions on MGS4 here are way more divided than I feel they have any right to be. I'm someone that loved experiences like Heavy Rain and Heavenly Sword. I guess I just like different things.
That's why I tend to read/watch reviews in a different light. I literally just look at the game and the mechanics and decide myself whether I'd like it or not. I really wish reviews would focus on that instead of trying to compare apples and oranges with scores.
How so? It's a very cinematic experience. I buy blu-rays of movies at about $30, and this has twice as much play-time as that. Personally I'm far more likely to play this again than watch a movie a 2nd or 3rd time, too. I realize there are a lot of games that give you even more value proposition, but I don't see why the two have to be completely separate as far as judging things.
I don't think you know how the internets work...
This has nothing to do with the quality of the product. There is a mindset that someone can only like something that is good, and that is absolutely wrong. People love bad movies and cheesy shows and ridiculous over the top books etc. Lots of people can recognize that hey, this is kinda shit but I like it anyway. The same can happen for games. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that thoroughly enjoy Rogue Warrior. Doesn't mean that it is good.
A persons acceptance and expectations of a game have no bearing on the products quality. The Order 1886 may have lived up to all expectations. It lived up to all of mine. I knew what I was getting. The game was still poor. It is behind its contemporaries by many strides from either the filmic TPS camp or the filmic QTE fest camp. It pales in comparison to either an Uncharted or a Walking Dead. Combining the two does nothing to advance the products quality, it only bears to remind that it should have pushed much harder in either direction. Then perhaps it could have been a good game. As it stands, below average is completely correct.
Anuson.Phan
Banned
even joe gave it a better score than digital trend.
Sparkedglory
Member
http://youtu.be/6BOXeFysWhM
I feel like I'm most in line with MWN's review whenever it comes to this game. It's getting some unecessary hate, even if I can understand why.
Video is probably nsfw as it contains language. Also, the intro.
I feel like I'm most in line with MWN's review whenever it comes to this game. It's getting some unecessary hate, even if I can understand why.
Video is probably nsfw as it contains language. Also, the intro.
tokyopunchout
Member
So superb graphics, insane details, great soundtrack and amazing voice acting? Sounds terrible!
I just paid $30 for my gf and I to see a movie this weekend & it was ONLY 1.5 HOURS!!!
Played through The Order last week & enjoyed the hell out of it (for what it was).
Admittedly the 'allyoop' werewolf charge part that starts at the 10:54 mark of his review had me rolling in the LOLz.
I just paid $30 for my gf and I to see a movie this weekend & it was ONLY 1.5 HOURS!!!
Played through The Order last week & enjoyed the hell out of it (for what it was).
Admittedly the 'allyoop' werewolf charge part that starts at the 10:54 mark of his review had me rolling in the LOLz.
He also doesn't understand how reviews work. He thinks a review should only be objective.
Messofanego
Banned
If he wanted to stand up for his opinion on pulling ads or review copies from reviewers because of scores given to one game, then he wouldn't have deleted it, right? Look at Adam Orth's constant apologies for his Microsoft tweets.
Isn't gameplay above all of those? Does it matter if the game play is short and bland?
The points you made seems to be in line with movies not games.
Giriath_89
Member
I think he argued his opinions well, and I hope RAD will be allowed to make a sequel and take all the criticism to heart. The Order could yet become a very good franchise, with all the technical expertise and attention to detail present at the studio.
Dick Justice
Banned
You conveniently missed out the most important part. Hint: The medium is called "video game".
For you, maybe.
This is where I think there's a big split.
As I said in a previous post, gaming is a combination of a lot of things for me. Gameplay is important, but I enjoy a lot of the other aspects, too. I enjoy graphics, environment design, atmosphere, art direction, music, sound direction, world building, voice acting, script writing, etc. Sometimes I like very gamey sorts of games and sometimes I want something else. I don't feel like games and movies are on some entirely separate continents of enjoyment. They're both entertainment.
It's all entertainment.
What he did was worse than apologize imo. He chose the gutless route and simply deleted his tweets without explanation.
John Bender
Banned
Right, and Orth shouldn't have apologized either. Orth in particular came across as a tool, and so did Phil Fish and Cliffy for that matter, but they're allowed to post whatever they want.
Like I said, there may consequences for acting that way- being unprofessional or seen as immature and unable to take criticism, but it's a stupid double standard that professional game reviews are allowed to make fun of the game, and devs are just supposed to accept it. Or we can sit here and criticize both the game and the reviews, and then blast them for defending it themselves.
If RAD makes a sequel and has learned nothing from all of this though, then it deserves to flop.
I agree, he didn't need to do that. I think we've all posted something regrettable at some point in our history, here or on other forums/media, but this tweets didn't need to be deleted. At least he could've defended them in more clarity.
A lot of people seem to forgetting about gameplay.
And a lot more people seem to be overemphasizing it.
Niteandgrey
Neo Member
Joe tickles my funny bone sometimes, other times he just bugs the hell out of me.
The Order is one of those games where I completely understand the criticisms but I enjoyed it anyway. It's a technical masterpiece, but it also has a really interesting mythology and great voice acting.
I love games that have new and innovative game play (and consequently, the Wii U has been my most played current-gen console), but I also appreciate a game that doesn't break any new ground but manages to do some things absurdly well.
It's a shame there's so much hate being directed towards this game because I'd really love to see what they can do with a sequel now that they have their tech built and polished and can just focus on content.
The Order is one of those games where I completely understand the criticisms but I enjoyed it anyway. It's a technical masterpiece, but it also has a really interesting mythology and great voice acting.
I love games that have new and innovative game play (and consequently, the Wii U has been my most played current-gen console), but I also appreciate a game that doesn't break any new ground but manages to do some things absurdly well.
It's a shame there's so much hate being directed towards this game because I'd really love to see what they can do with a sequel now that they have their tech built and polished and can just focus on content.
Dick Justice
Banned
The point is that trying to call someone out for giving the game a low score by pointing out how great the graphics, soundtrack and voice acting are, while leaving out the fact that Joe is mainly going after the stale, generic, QTE-infested gameplay, is quite funny.
These all sound like great qualities to find in a Pixar film to be honest. Many gamers don't like this gaming direction.
$30 for two movie tickets is expensive too. I don't go to the theater often.
Dictator93
Member
I am under the impression that gameplay can never be underemphasized. Being an interactive medium and what not.
But gameplay with gallery paintings, I cannot get enough of that!
Forget what? The core gameplay in Order is good, shooting itself one of the best in gene, another problem that combat scenarios not always great, but industry saw much worse cases
It's pretty clear Ready at Dawn resorted to using a derivative gameplay formula because it wanted to put more effort and time into developing aspects of the game that were about the game's look and sense of immersion by primarily limiting player control and telling them what to do and when to do it. After reading so many reviews, this game sounds like its almost completely uninspiring. While there may be a market for games like this, it's also understandable why such titles would frustrate game designers like Shigeru Miyamoto.
Majukun
Member
Over emphasising gameplay in a videogame
Is this a joke?
Maybe because it's still sold as a freaking video game ?!
The order doesn't exist in some sort of magical black hole where only fucking cinematic games exist and you should never ever dare to criticize it based on it's medium.
Doesn't matter if the game's intention is to be "cinematic" or not. You got other "cinematic" games that do a way better job than the order.
Zombie James
Banned
Oh wow.
Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios
That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Come on now, Mr. Senior Combat Designer. Just learn from your mistakes and do better next time. If you're going to do a linear story-based game, at least throw in something so people will have entertaining excuses to play it more than once. Attacking reviewers doesn't help anything in this case.
I can't believe we're at the point that people will argue that gameplay is over-rated in video games. Like that's totally your opinion, but it just blows my god damn mind.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
A few things
1) There's nothing wrong with liking cinematic games. Or story driven games. But a reviewer is not required to reward a game for having a good story, or just for being a great audio-visual experience. They review the whole package. A game has to earn praise, reviews are not a check box of "well you did a + b + c, that's at least 7/10, plus 60fps so 9/10". The only thing that earns you a good score is being a fun game.
2) Many reviewers (including Joe) have painstakingly pointed what's "wrong" with the game. Joe shows about 75% of the Lycan-related gameplay in the review! Do you disagree with his assessment on these encounters? I've yet to see anyone say "the lycan fights were awesome and totally worth it". The reason they only ever showed us one lycan elder encounter (abridged, at that) in the marketing was because that was really all they had. The selling point of the game, the alternate history monster fights, were an after-thought.
3) Focusing on the number is just a way to avoid delving into productive criticism. You don't want a number that tells you the game is bad, so you focus on that, instead of the 25 minutes of a guy telling you why the game is boring, trite, lacking dramatic impact, has no interesting enemy encounters, and loaded with filler.
4) A lot of reviewers mention the narrative bloat in MGS4. But it got great reviews anyway, because Metal Gear Solid is a great game first, with a YMMV on story. Throwing TLOU into this comparison as well, both of those games give you multiple options on how to complete or clear an area, even without being open world. Both games also throw wrinkles into the encounter design from time to time, asking the player to improvise in more ways than just "find cover and shoot whack-a-moles". And while Uncharted, Bayonetta, God of War, and RE4 all have QTEs, they are of the exploding-train/swinging-around-a-90-foot-God/suplexing-a-dragon/escaping-a-giant's-grips-while-stabbing-it-in-the-hand variety; truly larger than life stuff that is really hard to do in real time, while being mixed in often times flawlessly with the gameplay.
Gears of War even has an enemy variety nearly identical to the vanilla lycans - the Berserkers. The difference being, the Berserker is genuinely terrifying because every encounter is a game of hide & go seek, it's super fast, it can't be killed by conventional weaponry, and insta-gibs you if ever gets its hands on you. And they are just one of dozens of enemy types within that universe.
I'm actually at a loss on how to respond to this, other than saying, "Miyamoto was right." Nintendo may get a lot of things wrong, but if the opposite of their direction is this kind of thought...no thanks.
How on earth can you overemphasize GAMEPLAY? Has this game started to confuse people about what medium this is?
Yeah. There can only be that much gameplay in my videogames before I get bored...
Even the non gameplay part of The Order have flaws. The way Galahad act near the middle of the game feel so dumb it almost made me not finish the game. It was so cliché and stupid.
Also Lucan the lycan. Come on now.
Nope, it's not a joke.
Look, I'm not saying gameplay can be dogshit and the game should still be given a great score because everything else is awesome. I'm saying that gameplay isn't everything. It isn't the only thing people play for. It isn't the only thing people are entertained by. It isn't the only thing that should be applauded.
Games are entertainment for me, just like movies. I want to be entertained in whatever way. I want to be entertained differently sometimes, too. I've enjoyed games with superb gameplay and dogshit stories, but sometimes I've also found it hard to get into games with horrible stories and good gameplay.
Holy shit no, The Order shooting is bare bones cover based shooting, all the fights play out the same and all the environments for the combat are lazy linear corridors full of chest high cover. It does nothing of note with the gameplay.
Pretty much.
At the heart of every game is the gameplay. If that fails, the game is a failure. You can fill a novel full of flowery speech and beautifully constructed prose, but if the story sucks, it failed.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No, you're just in a minority of people who doesn't see it as valuable as most of the other people that enjoy the hobby.
Krusenstern
Banned
It's not wrong to appreciate these things in a game too. And who says gameplay is above all of those? It's a video game, sure. Although I would have loved more "actual" gameplay I wouldn't give the gameplay in The Order the same weight as I do for other titles like Vanquish whose major appeal is the pure gameplay itself.
As already said, The Order's other qualities simply are superb graphics, insane details, great soundtrack and amazing voice acting (and I may also add the story, since I loved it that well). It's all those things taken into account that makes the game fairly good.
You may not like the way the game weighs those factors? You consider gameplay to be maybe 70% of the game's worth (even if the game doesn't put most of its emphasis on gameplay)? That's okay. You decide then if the game is worth YOUR time.
Games can be many things. Generalizing and saying that gameplay should be more important than all the other things that can make a game great is short sighted. I for one also don't complain about Beyond Two Souls or point&click games. People like them for some reason. For some reason people also like The Order.
Diprosalic
Banned
and then talks for another 23 minutes.