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Angry Joe The Order 1886 Review.

M

Messofanego

Banned
grandwizard said:
Between Pessino tweeting out that video review and the Santa Monica dev talking about not giving out review copies anymore they are not looking like they are taking the reviews all that well. Not a good look for sure.
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Oh wow.
DeanRymer.png

Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios

That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
 
S

Septic360

Banned
Kagutaba said:
Andrea Pessino, Founder/CTO at Ready At Dawn, in a tweet linked to a disgusting video review, were the "reviewer" in the video said that other reviewers that scored The Order a six should be fired for it, Andrea Pessino promoted this as the "final" review of The Order: 1886.

https://twitter.com/AndreaPessino/status/571137039753564161
Click to expand...

This was absolutely friggin dire. Remember when Cliffy B went on a rant against a mag for the score? This was even worse.

That 'review' that Pessino referred to was genuinely shocking and I question his integrity by linking to that there. Fair enough he wants to market his game in as positive a light as possible, but linking to a reviewer who basically tells everyone that only he knows what the game is about and everyone doesn't get it? SMFH.
 
K

Kagutaba

Member
CassidyIzABeast said:
There's no way he watched that review before linking it.
Click to expand...

We can't know that, people asked him if he agreed that reviewers should be fired after that tweet, he hasn't responded.

He linked to a questionable video, if he disagrees with it afterwards he should say so.

Septic360 said:
This was absolutely friggin dire. Remember when Cliffy B went on a rant against a mag for the score? This was even worse.

That 'review' that Pessino referred to was genuinely shocking and I question his integrity by linking to that there. Fair enough he wants to market his game in as positive a light as possible, but linking to a reviewer who basically tells everyone that only he knows what the game is about and everyone doesn't get it? SMFH.
Click to expand...

Yep. So do I.
 
martino

martino

Member
Messofanego said:
Oh wow.
DeanRymer.png

Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios

That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Click to expand...

I'm sure,deeply, he is mad about the truth...maybe he think being an aaa budget in a first party game would have (like often) made lot of people ignore his not so good work. Maybe it is not good enougth to be covered.
 
D

Derpyduck

Banned
CassidyIzABeast said:
There's no way he watched that review before linking it.
Click to expand...

There's no way he didn't watch it first.

Messofanego said:
Oh wow.
DeanRymer.png

Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios

That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those tweets are embarrassing. He's lucky no one made a thread about them.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
FeiRR said:
Quite a strange opinion from somebody who advocates AC games so much. Mixing history with fiction is exactly what those games/series do. It also has a lot of sense in TO but you would need to know the story.

Those are animals, they don't have any intelligence. Again, you don't know the story and you based your opinion on what, youtube? Attack patterns change if you move from the corner (which he didn't). There's no other way in the mechanics to counter their attack other than dodging so what would you expect them to do?
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Why not just let the player actively dodge them by moving to the side?

I posted it before, but Dead Space 2 seems to do the exact same enemy type, just a ton more intense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-gA8tLM1A

You have a player who clearly played the game a couple of times and knows exactly what is coming and yet he still gets surprised from behind and overwhelmed at times. The order just giving you a dodge button takes the whole tension out of it.
 
TAS

TAS

Member
I just reached Chapter X and so far I give the game an 8. I like the fact that it plays like an interactive movie.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Messofanego said:
Oh wow.
DeanRymer.png

Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios

That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Click to expand...

I guess we should have low expectations for God of War, eh. :p
 
D

dragonbane

Member
Betty said:
That's because they are used sparingly to either pull off a finisher or context sensitive move.

Metal Gear Rising also does QTE's well, so does God of War, the ones in Heavy Rain were alright too.

Of course they all had lots of other things going for them too.
Click to expand...
Taxidermist DLC in Heavy Rain still has one of the best implementations of QTEs ever. It blows The Order away in terms of originality and tension.
 
J

jet1911

Member
Purest 78 said:
The part where he kept dying is laughable and sad. Shows how much of a casual He is. You can not like The Order that's fine, but there's nothing hard in The Order.
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I remember dying a lot in the first big encounter in Whitechapel. Fucking shotgunners are more of a threat to you than the lycans. So dumb.
 
W

wildfire

Banned
DevilFox said:
Not even close and the point is that positive ones are totally ignored while negative ones gets all the attention and they are also supported by those who did not play the game, giving them more echo.
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People who haven't played a game speak positively about it adding to that echo. I do it now and then especially for MMOs but in this case I see little redeeming value in The Order other than the graphics. The only thing that stands out slightly is that they had ideas for cool guns but they made them unavailable for you at inconvenient times. :|
 
J

Jaeger

Member
One thing I like about Joe is he seems to genuinely want more of a the titles he reviews. You can hear his disappointment in what could have been with this game. He laments in the wonderful world it has, gorgeous visuals, and then his frustration and anger with the lack of everything else. I feel him. From what I've gathered, there is so much here that for all purposes should have been a major blockbuster. Instead we have a game that fails to meet expectations. Very reasonable ones, I might add.

I wonder if it didn't look so good, what would the consensus of it be then.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
Kagutaba said:
We can't know that, people asked him if he agreed that reviewers should be fired after that tweet, he hasn't responded.

He linked to a questionable video, if he disagrees with it afterwards he should say so.
Click to expand...

The review is just so ridiculous I can't believe he linked it as the final review to watch. From start to finish its dumb but the whole Flower section just takes the cake. I laughed hard at the absurdity of his argument.
 
K

Kinthalis

Banned
Always-honest said:
No that's mistake that somehow many people make these days.
Like "linear", etc. They are valid choices. But they should be done well.

Some of the buttonprompts were just fucking silly in this game.
But QTE- fights can really intensify certain gaming moments.
You may not like them, or suck at them, but they're not always done just because devs ran out of ideas.
Click to expand...

Lol, Intensify moments?

No, they are a failure of the game's mechanics. This is a moment when the devs threw up their arms and said, welp, we have no way to engage the player at this time with the game mechanics/level layout/narrative path we've locked ourselves in to.

In the case of the order it's all over the place. Sometimes it's a failure of their game mechanics, a failure of their level design, a failure of whoever it was who obviously nixed the idea of a true puzzle to solve that the environment artists were obviously going for, or someone realizing they just spent the last hour in a boring cutscene, so for pity's sake let's make sure the player hasn't fallen asleep by randomly throwing button prompts at the screen.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
DevilFox said:
Not even close and the point is that positive ones are totally ignored while negative ones gets all the attention and they are also supported by those who did not play the game, giving them more echo.
Click to expand...

Nearly every positive review I've seen of The Order run over a lot of the same points, and a common thread I've seen is "No game that looks or sounds this good without obvious glitches should ever get less than 6/10."

I honestly can't support that kind of thinking, that having AAA production values automatically excludes you from the lower end of the review scale.
 
J

JDSN

Banned
I dont know what is more embarrasing, the fanbase or the developers acting like children.



Nope, its the fanbase, they dont have their jobs at stake and are eating up this bullshit "bullying" narrative. Glad thay Bloodborne is coming soon so people stop pretending this is good.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
The Order is one of those games that I think overall I enjoyed, but I also cannot disagree with most of the criticisms being thrown at it. It was worth the $9 I spent renting it but if I had paid $60 Id be much more disappointed.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Draft said:
Please. This is simply another exclusive piece of software on the SONY PlayStation 4 being treated unfairly by the press and by agenda driven forum posters. Real gamers can see through that and have been enjoying the creative vision of RAD.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. I have a platinum in it and I don't like it and I feel the lower end of reviews are spot on. Time to hand in my real gamer card :(
 
Majukun

Majukun

Member
Messofanego said:
Oh wow.
DeanRymer.png

Dean Rymer, Senior Combat Designer at Santa Monica Studios

That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Click to expand...
What the actual fuck!? Why there's no thread about this? It's shameless
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Kinthalis said:
Lol, Intensify moments?

No, they are a failure of the game's mechanics. This is a moment when the devs threw up their arms and said, welp, we have no way to engage the player at this time with the game mechanics/level layout/narrative path we've locked ourselves in to.

In the case of the order it's all over the place. Sometimes it's a failure of their game mechanics, a failure of their level design, a failure of whoever it was who obviously nixed the idea of a true puzzle to solve that the environment artists were obviously going for, or someone realizing they just spent the last hour in a boring cutscene, so for pity's sake let's make sure the player hasn't fallen asleep by randomly throwing button prompts at the screen.
Click to expand...

I have to assume you just haven't played a game that does them well such as Bayonetta. They can be great extensions to the gameplay systems already in place.
 
F

Fury451

Banned
Funny review, I don't disagree with any of his points at all. I pretty much have the same critiques as he does, especially about picking up some objects- reminded me of LA Noire in that regard. It was still at least a 7/10 from me, can't wait for a sequel.

If the intro to the video used a rolled-up newspaper, it would've been even better though. Intro is 6/10 for missed potential.
 
K

Kinthalis

Banned
BruceLeeRoy said:
I have to assume you just haven't played a game that does them well such as Bayonetta. They can be great extensions to the gameplay systems already in place.
Click to expand...

As primarly a PC gamer, we don't get many games with QTE's, and when we do the above is EXACTLY true.

Never played Bayonetta though, so maybe I'm not 100% right, just 99% :)
 
K

Kagutaba

Member
DevilFox said:
Not even close...
Click to expand...

Agree to disagree then.

... and the point is that positive ones are totally ignored while negative ones gets all the attention and they are also supported by those who did not play the game, giving them more echo.
Click to expand...

Not in the OT, which is where the main discussion about The Order takes place. It's a decent back and forth between different viewpoints in my opinion, and from what I've seen in the OT positive reviews gets just as much or more useless echo, in the form of short drive-by thank you posts that ads nothing to the discussion. At least the guys criticizing story of youtube provides some arguments.
 
J

John Bender

Banned
Messofanego said:
That is like pre-Gerstmanngate bullshit. Thankfully he has no power over those sorts of things and he recognised his mistake by deleting those tweets although an apology would be better than running away.
Click to expand...
rofl "Apology" for what? It's his personal opinion from his own/privat twitter account. He doesn't have to apologize for anything.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Nearly every positive review I've seen of The Order run over a lot of the same points, and a common thread I've seen is "No game that looks or sounds this good without obvious glitches should ever get less than 6/10."

I honestly can't support that kind of thinking, that having AAA production values automatically excludes you from the lower end of the review scale.
Click to expand...

To me, I feel like people dismiss production too much nowadays. Those teams did some amazing work. Why should we completely dismiss a game just because one other team didn't quite get it right? To me gaming is a combination of many things that I love. I game because of gameplay, yes, but I also play games because I love the artistry of environmental design, graphics, acting, storytelling, music, etc. To me the order nails its atmosphere, its environment, its graphics, its storytelling, its characters, its acting, its soundtrack, and even the gunplay itself (not as much the actual level design around the gunplay, I just mean the pure mechanics). Isn't that worth something? Isn't that worth a lot of something?

That and I think not everyone wants some open world bullshit. Not everyone wants less cutscenes. Not everyone wants the flavor of the day. I kind of feel nowadays reviewers take something like 2 points off right off the bat for not being open world or for having too many cutscenes. I suppose I don't blame them in a way because when the gaming public is complaining about the gameplay to cutscene ratio in fucking MGS4 (or even sometimes TLOU!!!) then obviously they'll have a problem here, even though that just baffles me.

That's also why I think review scores should go the way of the dodo. Don't dock a score because a game is really cinematic and full of QTEs or something. Don't dock a score on something like Driveclub because it's not open world. Just fucking tell me that and let me decide if that's the type of game I want or not. Tell me what's wrong with a game. Tell me what's right with the game. Tell me how it plays. That's what I want in reviews.
 
D

dragonbane

Member
FeiRR said:
The game tells you exactly that those are just animals. Even Galahad has a line on that "another London morning" or something like that, I don't remember.
Click to expand...
Well, the elders can talk at least, which indicates great intelligence, possibly the same as when they are human. Im sure while the "normal" Lycans probably can't, they should at least have some of that intelligence. At least they should be smart enough to not retreat after charging and actually hitting you.
 
K

Krusenstern

Banned
JDSN said:
I dont know what is more embarrasing, the fanbase or the developers acting like children.



Nope, its the fanbase, they dont have their jobs at stake and are eating up this bullshit "bullying" narrative. Glad thay Bloodborne is coming soon so people stop pretending this is good.
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure my opinion of the game won't change after I played Bloodborne (which is still my most anticipated game of the year). I really liked the game despite its issues (and I have no problem acknowledging those). It's time to move on and accept that not everyone hates the game.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Kagutaba said:
Andrea Pessino, Founder/CTO at Ready At Dawn, in a tweet linked to a disgusting video review, were the "reviewer" in the video said that other reviewers that scored The Order a six should be fired for it, Andrea Pessino promoted this as the "final" review of The Order: 1886.

https://twitter.com/AndreaPessino/status/571137039753564161
Click to expand...

Vile Self is the new Biogamer Girl?

While I do feel bad for the devs in some respects and feel some of the criticism levelled towards the game isn't entirety fair, this is just embarrassing.
 
K

Kagutaba

Member
CassidyIzABeast said:
The review is just so ridiculous I can't believe he linked it as the final review to watch. From start to finish its dumb but the whole Flower section just takes the cake. I laughed hard at the absurdity of his argument.
Click to expand...

I can't believe it either, but he... he kinda did do exactly that!
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Kinthalis said:
As primarly a PC gamer, we don't get many games with QTE's, and when we do the above is EXACTLY true.

Never played Bayonetta though, so maybe I'm not 100% right, just 99% :)
Click to expand...

Ah gotcha that makes sense as they are primarily a console phenomena. Your right that they can be lazy additions but when they are thought about as ways to extend the combat such as Platinum Games and God of War they feel very natural and help add a epic element to the encounters.
 
S

Shadow_FFVI

Member
Hasney said:
No it isn't. I have a platinum in it and I don't like it and I feel the lower end of reviews are spot on. Time to hand in my real gamer card :(
Click to expand...

I got the platinum trophy as well and I'm not very fond of the game, but scores on the 2 to 5 range seem excessive to me.
 
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