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[benicillin]

In the last few months I have gotten at least a dozen or more friend requests or scam messages each week from brand new accounts with nothing on them. If this helps cut that down I'm fully in support of it.

 

[stan423321]

- Everyone else in the cafe is willing to buy you a drink if you're actually really hurting here, and that drink will count on your account so the problem will be solved, but you're too proud to accept the offer but not too proud to loudly complain about management policy to everyone you talk to.

It is said quite clearly game gifts don't count. You imply, then, there's a way to buy Steam credit code online. I found one such thing, but it starts at 20$. Am I getting something wrong here?

 

[Cleve]

I get a decent amount of spam bots and I don't even have anything super valuable in my inventory.

This seems like a great fix for paying customers. Attempting to find ways in which it's screwing people over really seems like you're reaching for it. It's so easy to qualify, and it's really not taking much away if your steam use is so limited anyway.

 

[MUnited83]

It is said quite clearly game gifts don't count. You imply, then, there's a way to buy Steam credit code online. I found one such thing, but it starts at 20$. Am I getting something wrong here?

You can buy something as a gift to someone and it will count. So a friend can give you 5$, you buy them a game with that money, and your account will be activated.

 

[duckroll]

It is said quite clearly game gifts don't count. You imply, then, there's a way to buy Steam credit code online. I found one such thing, but it starts at 20$. Am I getting something wrong here?

Receiving a gift doesn't count towards the spending quota value. Buying a gift and sending it counts.

 

[Uraizen]

Not if they bought it at retail. It definitely sucks for them if they never installed Steam before, buys the game at retail, installs Steam as part of it, and can't add each other as Friends. I guess they can buy the Season Pass. Lolz.

Nah, it works for the person who has spent over $5. They can add the other friend. If neither of them spent $5... yeah, they're screwed.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

It is said quite clearly game gifts don't count. You imply, then, there's a way to buy Steam credit code online. I found one such thing, but it starts at 20$. Am I getting something wrong here?

Steam accepts paypal for which you can make a free account without any kind of payment info attached into which people could deposit your $5.

 

[stan423321]

Receiving a gift doesn't count towards the spending quota value. Buying a gift and sending it counts.

Yes, so they need that money on their account first so they could buy me the game. In order for them to do that, I (the debit card owning friend) have to purchase them (not-card owning friend) a Steam wallet code, since they aren't in stores around here.

 

[MutFox]

Wonder if this will help a bit with the smurfs and cheaters in CS:GO...
Since a lot of them probably are gifted the game to help boost some noobs.
Or have an account where they bought the game cheap several times in order to gift.

 

[Stumpokapow]

It is said quite clearly game gifts don't count. You imply, then, there's a way to buy Steam credit code online. I found one such thing, but it starts at 20$. Am I getting something wrong here?

Gifts from people don't count. People giving you money to buy gifts do count. And you don't need to buy Steam credit codes, they can Paypal (Dishwolla / Webmoney / etc) you the money and you can use your Paypal balance to buy stuff on Steam.

 

[Hero Prinny]

This is pretty annoying. I always just gift my brother games or buy him codes from gmg, now I gotta put my debit into his acc just so he doesnt have a gimped acc

 

[coughlanio]

I find that setting your inventory to private reduces the amount of spam I receive.

 

[R_thanatos]

Oh hey, I hadn't even thought of that. Good call.

I think it will help greenlight a bit but I think a lot of dumb things will still get on the store. Maybe in less bursts now though, so it's good.

It just annoying me that so many greenlight games that are obviously trash get a pass because of people who never did anything before on steam vote for it.. That was abused as hell.
Now maybe the people posting games will need to actually gather some fans or some momentum before seeing it approved.
I refuse to believe that there is that much people who seeks crappy games on purpose.

 

[stan423321]

Steam accepts paypal for which you can make a free account without any kind of payment info attached into which people could deposit your $5.

For once a sensible answer. It isn't exactly as simple as I wanted it to, but it's something I guess? Assuming PayPal doesn't suddenly start to require account verification at 5$.

 

[KHlover]

This is pretty annoying. I always just gift my brother games or buy him codes from gmg, now I gotta put my debit into his acc just so he doesnt have a gimped acc

Well if you have PayPal you could just buy anything from the store with $5 value once from his account and use PayPal at checkout. Just uncheck "Save payment information" and you're set.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

It just annoying me that so many greenlight games that are obviously trash get a pass because of people who never did anything before on steam vote for it.. That was abused as hell.
Now maybe the people posting games will need to actually gather some fans or some momentum before seeing it approved.
I refuse to believe that there is that much people who seeks crappy games on purpose.

Never underestimate the power of youtube personalities and their influence. Still, I hadn't thought either about how these free accounts may have been being used to push through Greenlight shovelware. This is a WAY bigger deal than eliminating phishing bots.

For once a sensible answer. It isn't exactly as simple as I wanted it to, but it's something I guess? Assuming PayPal doesn't suddenly start to require account verification at 5$.

I don't personally use paypal that often (and never in such small amounts) so I honestly don't know.

 

[kirblar]

Totally expect Blizzard to follow their lead on this. Very smart decision.

 

[baterism]

This is pretty annoying. I always just gift my brother games or buy him codes from gmg, now I gotta put my debit into his acc just so he doesnt have a gimped acc

You can also just give $5 steam wallet.

 

[Ensirius]

This is a great idea actually.

 

[feel]

Good move. And I can't really care about the people playing thousands of hours of incredible games like dota2 and tf2 for free without ever bothering to toss Valve $5 for some skin or whatever.

 

[Leafhopper]

This is pretty annoying. I always just gift my brother games or buy him codes from gmg, now I gotta put my debit into his acc just so he doesnt have a gimped acc

You could just buy a 10 dollar steam code to and never put a card on there.

It just annoying me that so many greenlight games that are obviously trash get a pass because of people who never did anything before on steam vote for it.. That was abused as hell.
Now maybe the people posting games will need to actually gather some fans or some momentum before seeing it approved.
I refuse to believe that there is that much people who seeks crappy games on purpose.

You would be surprised. I looked at the comments for those steam greenlight games that are trash and a good chunk of the accounts are legitimate. It's sad.

Good move. And I can't really care about the people playing thousands of hours of incredible games like dota2 and tf2 for free without ever bothering to toss Valve $5 for some skin or whatever.

Can't blame you and I think it's crazy they never put any money in it but it happens.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The thing about Greenlight is that even in the absence of spam votes, you'd still see a ton of stuff come through. Valve is greenlighting hundreds of games every month (69% of all games ever submitted to Greenlight have already been Greenlit, 92% of all games that have been on Greenlight and in a bundle have been Greenlit) and more and more games don't need to go through Greenlight at all. If you have a business, you basically don't need Greenlight anymore. All of this a policy decision from Valve. They're at the point where they now allow essentially anything on the store by choice, Greenlight is mostly a filter to keep out viruses, copyright infringement attempts, racist content, etc. from the store rather than a quality control. Although I guess it also keeps out MY FIRST GAM type stuff.

I've voted on everything on Greenlight, and of the ~250 items I've identified as my favourite games on Greenlight (overall there have been maybe ~5000 submissions, so that's the top <5%), all except 9 of them (most 2015 submissions) have been Greenlit.

 

[CecilRousso]

This is pretty annoying. I always just gift my brother games or buy him codes from gmg, now I gotta put my debit into his acc just so he doesnt have a gimped acc

Has he been using the functions that will be restricted for him?

 

[Gamesadict]

Really sucks for those that only play F2P games, but this was necessary, spam bots were getting ridiculous.

Edit: WAIT, I have a friend that I always gift his games to, he doesn't have a credit card or ever used one, this means he will be restricted?

 

[-COOLIO-]

People can have a Steam library worth hundreds of $ without having ever spent a single $ on Steam's storefront.
Why is it ok, if those people suddenly lose features?

I don't think either of us could find a single person like that.

Edit: also, I'm betting this only apply to users that have no paid games in their account.

Edit edit: Oh, it doesn't. Well that's a bit silly.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Edit: WAIT, I have a friend that I always gift his games to, he doesn't have a credit card or ever used one, this means he will be restricted?

That depends what restricted means. Which functions does he use that you think he won't be able to use going forward?

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Friend requests are annoying but that really sucks for people who sign up for Steam to play TF2 or Dota or whatever and find that they have to pay money to unlock basic features...

I guess I could see Valve rationalizing that as a situation where people who don't spend any money ever are inconsequential to their business.

 

[R_thanatos]

Never underestimate the power of youtube personalities and their influence. Still, I hadn't thought either about how these free accounts may have been being used to push through Greenlight shovelware. This is a WAY bigger deal than eliminating phishing bots.

i don't but there should be enough with normal game that are crappy on their own

You would be surprised. I looked at the comments for those steam greenlight games that are trash and a good chunk of the accounts are legitimate. It's sad.

Indeed, but there are some games were that number was much lower.. almost on the scam level.

The thing about Greenlight is that even in the absence of spam votes, you'd still see a ton of stuff come through. Valve is greenlighting hundreds of games every month (69% of all games ever submitted to Greenlight have already been Greenlit, 92% of all games that have been on Greenlight and in a bundle have been Greenlit) and more and more games don't need to go through Greenlight at all. If you have a business, you basically don't need Greenlight anymore. All of this a policy decision from Valve. They're at the point where they now allow essentially anything on the store by choice, Greenlight is mostly a filter to keep out viruses, copyright infringement attempts, racist content, etc. from the store rather than a quality control. Although I guess it also keeps out MY FIRST GAM type stuff.

I've voted on everything on Greenlight, and of the ~250 items I've identified as my favourite games on Greenlight (overall there have been maybe ~5000 submissions, so that's the top <5%), all except 9 of them (most 2015 submissions) have been Greenlit.

Thanks for the insight.
So it won't help much ..but it should at least help a little.

 

[Leafhopper]

Really sucks for those that only play F2P games, but this was necessary, spam bots were getting ridiculous.

Edit: WAIT, I have a friend that I always gift his games to, he doesn't have a credit card or ever used one, this means he will be restricted?

Depends, what features. They will still be able to talk to you for example.

Indeed, but there are some games were that number was much lower.. almost on the scam level.

Yeah I believe ya.

I guess I could see Valve rationalizing that as a situation where people who don't spend any money ever are inconsequential to their business.

That's where I am at now about this whole thing. The people that are playing only TF2 and Dota 2 and aren't spending money anyway more than likely aren't using a majority of those features that will be not of access to them. It's an assumption by Valve but, I get it.

 

[Gamesadict]

That depends what restricted means. Which functions does he use that you think he won't be able to use going forward?

Depends, what features. They will still be able to talk to you for example.

Well, now that I think about it, he only cared for a while about Cards and not so much about Steam Level... And he could just request others to add him... Hmm

Good point, he mostly won't care, but I should let him know, just in case.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Well, now that I think about it, he only cared for a while about Cards and not so much about Steam Level... And he could just request others to add him... Hmm

So your friend is literally making a profit on Steam? He doesn't buy anything, you buy stuff for him, but he still sells the cards to make money? I mean, I buy someone being a poor freeloader who uses Steam but can't afford to buy anything, but someone actually paying negative money to use Steam. That's a whole new edge case. I don't even know how to process that. I must say if you're going to keep financing this guy's game library, you should get him to pay you back through his card money. It'd only be fair.

 

[danielcw]

They were entirely forthright with why they did this. It's at the beginning of the press release. It's a move meant to both reduce the alarmingly growing number of malicious accounts and inconvenience as few people as possible. Does it suck for that minority for which it does? Yeah, I suppose so.

Hey, I am not saying, that valve are evil, or hid their intetions.

But I am not convinced, that the people losing features are a minority, and that the people who are being protected are a majority.
Also there are better ways to deal with that.

Well here's the way I see it. There is a cafe in a park with air-conditioning, nice seats and big tables. The cafe serves food and drinks, while there are also various food stands outside of the cafe.

I think that analogy falls apart, because the features of the cafe were implied to be free.
Also, I guess many people saw the cafe and the food stands as one thing, one offering, because while you paid your food at the food stands (retail), you then actually have to go to the cafe (steam) to get your food (game).

 

[KHlover]

Well, now that I think about it, he only cared for a while about Cards and not so much about Steam Level... And he could just request others to add him... Hmm

Good point, he mostly won't care, but I should let him know, just in case.

Wait...if he's selling cards he surely has a wallet fund of over $5 or bought stuff with a value of $5, right?

But I am not convinced, that the people losing features are a minority, and that the people who are being protected are a majority.

You think over 50% of all accounts on Steam have never added funds of $5 or more to their wallet OR bought software with a value of $5 or more from the store? When the entire reason that steam got so big in the earlier years was their amazing sales on the digital store?

Sorry, but you are flat out wrong on this one.

 

[Gamesadict]

So your friend is literally making a profit on Steam? He doesn't buy anything, you buy stuff for him, but he still sells the cards to make money? I mean, I buy someone being a poor freeloader who uses Steam but can't afford to buy anything, but someone actually paying negative money to use Steam. That's a whole new edge case. I don't even know how to process that. I must say if you're going to keep financing this guy's game library, you should get him to pay you back through his card money. It'd only be fair.

Not at all, he likes the badges, and he pays the gifts (unless I'm really gifting a game, like on holidays or birthday), he just doesn't have a credit card of his own.

 

[danielcw]

I don't think either of us could find a single person like that.

My neighbour who lives above me.
He has 3 Steam accounts, and definitely spend more than 150 Euros across them.
(if I would count MSRP it could be over 300 EUR)


EDIT: and from 2003 to 2012 my account was below the 5$ threshold as well.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think that analogy falls apart, because the features of the cafe were implied to be free.
Also, I guess many people saw the cafe and the food stands as one thing, one offering, because while you paid your food at the food stands (retail), you then actually have to go to the cafe (steam) to get your food (game).

Okay, but the cafe isn't preventing you from going or eating your food, they're restricting you from very specific things (in my version of the analogy, sitting at two specific tables reserved for customers of the cafe) so how is that a meaningful distinction here?

Like, if Valve shut down Steam Community two years from now (you could still use all your games and everything you've paid for and let's say they refund emoticons or backgrounds or whatever you may have paid for for use in the community), your argument is that that's a great moral wrong, because offering the features for free means they must be offered in perpetuity even though the features are clearly supplemental to the actual business of selling games and nothing about selling games has been impacted. Even if you can still play your games.

My neighbour who lives above me.
He has 3 Steam accounts, and definitely spend more than 150 Euros across them.
(if I would count MSRP it could be over 300 EUR)

So this guy:
- Uses Steam on a regular basis
- Needs to use Steam to talk to people
- Won't use Steam to talk to people, has to use his web browser and mobile and definitely not Steam
- Needs to use all three accounts to do this (unrelated to playing the games)
- Won't buy anything on Steam ever on any of his accounts
- Won't let anyone else buy him anything on Steam on any of his accounts
- Currently uses the mobile account and literally signs out and switches accounts every five minutes to be able to talk to people from all three of his accounts

Is the complaint here that in the abstract no one should ever be restricted in any way, or is the complaint that this restriction actually impacts this guy?

Not at all, he likes the badges, and he pays the gifts (unless I'm really gifting a game, like on holidays or birthday), he just doesn't have a credit card of his own.

If he pays for the gifts, how does this impact him? He can use Paypal (Webmoney, Dishwolla, whatever is available locally) from his bank account or if he refuses to use anything except cash but needs to keep paying for things online, you can add your credit card, buy him $5 in wallet credit, and then remove your credit card. I don't understand, is the issue that this is a big deal for him but he won't spend two minutes to fix it?

 

[Gattsu25]

Not at all, he likes the badges, and he pays the gifts (unless I'm really gifting a game, like on holidays or birthday), he just doesn't have a credit card of his own.

Buy a steam point card for him and have him redeem it, instead of gifting him his next game.

Done.

 

[RangerX]

I've never been spammed a single time on steam. I didn't even know it was a thing.

 

[danielcw]

You think over 50% of all accounts on Steam have never added funds of $5 or more to their wallet OR bought software with a value of $5 or more from the store?

A minority, compared to the people who are annoyed by friend request or could be abused, not to all steam users as a whole.

Okay, but the cafe isn't preventing you from going or eating your food, so how is that a meaningful distinction here?

The services of the cafe, the comfort, etc, have previously been implied to be free.
You were actually invited into the cafe for free.
Now they say: you can come in for free, but there is a minimum you have to spend, if you want all features, the cafe previously used to lure you in.

And if you bought your games at retail or in the store did not make a difference.

And I think there is a better way to handle all this.

Like, if Valve shut down Steam Community two years from now (you could still use all your games and everything you've paid for and let's say they refund emoticons or backgrounds or whatever you may have paid for for use in the community), your argument is that that's a great moral wrong, because offering the features for free means they must be offered in perpetuity even though the features are clearly supplemental to the actual business of selling games and nothing about selling games has been impacted.

No, my argument only applies to those, who have been shortcharged compared to others.
They used to give those features to all, now they take it away from some.

Also I am not saying it is a "great moral wrong", please don't put words in my mouth.

And I would like to add, that Valve, and the people who champion Steam also mention those features. I don't think they are supplemental anymore. Selling games is only a part of Steams business, because a lot of sales happen outside the storefront.
Of the features of Steam I regularly use the storefront is the least important one to me. Because I don't have money to spent, and have more games that I want right now.
And if I buy games, I look outside Steam's store for deals.
Cross game friendlists, automatic game updates, etc are more important to me. And right now Steam has an almost monopoly on that in the PC-games market.
If Steam were only a storefront, were almost nobody cares about the friendslist and its related features, I would look differently at the situation.
And if the new rules would only apply to new accounts, and new customers, I would be OK with the situation as well.

 

[dsk1210]

That's shitty. I gifted CS:GO to my brother last year and he's been playing it for 300 hours, and 700 on TF2 before that. Now they remove basic features from him to use and he need to pay $5 to be able to use those features again. That's really fucking shitty. But I guess that's just Valve being Valve.

To be honest, if your brother has played the Valve games that much, throwing 5 dollars into the pot is nothing. Maybe non of us should have to pay companies anything for their hard work and overheads?

 

[MutFox]

That's shitty. I gifted CS:GO to my brother last year and he's been playing it for 300 hours, and 700 on TF2 before that. Now they remove basic features from him to use and he need to pay $5 to be able to use those features again. That's really fucking shitty. But I guess that's just Valve being Valve.

If he's played that long, he most likely has a lot of drops.
Those are worth something in the marketplace.
If he sells those, he'll have WAY more than $5.

Same goes for the people complaining about TF2 and DOTA2.
Those drops if played for that long are worth more than $5.

Those F2P games actually reward that much playtime.

 

[eot]

If he pays for the gifts, how does this impact him? He can use Paypal (Webmoney, Dishwolla, whatever is available locally) from his bank account or if he refuses to use anything except cash but needs to keep paying for things online, you can add your credit card, buy him $5 in wallet credit, and then remove your credit card. I don't understand, is the issue that this is a big deal for him but he won't spend two minutes to fix it?

There's an option to not save your payment details, so you don't even have to remove them.

 

[Neverforget]

Which functions that she has actually used before, can't she use anymore? Has she used friend invites or mobile chat before?

Yep, she added some of her friends, but the most important for me is the chat, we use it a lot. OH, and she loves leveling up her profile.

If your sister is very young, you're really just keeping her safe from predators. It's called "The Nintendo Solution".

Nah, she isn't that young but if I am honest, I'm sure that a bit can scam her, haha.

I believe she can still receive invites

I'll have to ask her next time I talk to her.

I'll just have to buy her something from her account so it can be unlocked. It's just a shame for people with no money but get gifted games from family and friends.

 

[CecilRousso]

Yep, she added some of her friends, but the most important for me is the chat, we use it a lot. OH, and she loves leveling up her profile.

The chat still works for her doesn't it?

And if she loves the leveling, maybe $5 is a pretty good deal for that? Considering that it actually contributes to the levelling?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

...

I feel pretty bad for those people, not only because of this change but also because of their crippling neurosis.

stopithesdeadalready.gif

I suspect a few of the people objecting here shell out $5 a month for console services that used to be free. I look forward to not having to block Sergei (level 0, no games, LordGaben avatar) daily. Thanks Valve.

 

[Parsnip]

You know computers and current are investments too, right? Funny, my daily work involves fighting spam, not sure how you can judge whether I know how this works or not though.

Valve just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about spam culture (I'm an expert)...

 

[L4DANathan]

Thank Jesus, so much bot harassment has been coming my way recently.

 

[DR2K]

Valkyrie Chronicals took care of that

 

[Heebie Jeebies]

Is this effectively immediately? I have 2 friend requests with level 0 accounts so I guess it hasn't worked as intended unless i'm missing something.

 

[CryptiK]

Yeah this clearly isnt in yet. I have bots adding me still. I just blocked 10