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[neorej]

My main problem with Ultron is he seemed way too weak.

Cap alone was basically kicking his ass for half the final fight scene.

I really hope they do Thanos justice whenever he truly does get off his ass and do something.

Are you talking about the scene where Cap is keeping Ultron busy and needs to be saved by Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch?

 

[serenewarfare]

I read it as them feeling a deep responsibility to their threatened homeland rather than a commitment ot the Avengers.

It fits with their initial motivations to seek revenge on the people who destroyed it before. Its just sad that Sokovia and its people weren't given any sense of character. You could buy the sacrifice if the twins actually had deep ties to the place they were raised. This is only implied (like when Hawkeye talks to scarlet witch about doing his job) that at this point they see it as their duty to save their people.

I could see that. I think it's a multi-layered thing. Regardless of the reasons, I absolutely think his death had impact, both in the moment and going forward.

 

[More_Badass]

That could be but I never saw that connection in the movie. It just felt like the movie took place in a random rural town in Easter Europe for no good reason. They never got portrayed as patriotic or anything really. There was instead much focus on Ultron which.. never lead to anything really.

It was implied that that particular city hated Stark, likely due to civilian causalities from Stark weaponry. Look at the opening when the crowd throws acid and angrily yells at the drones and there's the graffiti on Iron Man on the wall.

More than just a random city. This was a place that had been hurt by "Stark" in the past.

 

[Alienous]

I'm thinking they could have made Ultron more threatening by making his bots less numerous but more intimidating. Make them individually formidable, so maybe one gets a good punch on the Hulk, or another single-handedly combats Iron Man, then you can have the Meta Cooler like reveal when Ultron calls in hundreds of them and the Avengers have to step up their game.

They just seemed too much like moving scrap metal.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I'm thinking they could have made Ultron more threatening by making his bots less numerous but more intimidating. Make them individually formidable, so maybe one gets a good punch on the Hulk, or another single-handedly combats Iron Man, then you can have the Meta Cooler like reveal when Ultron calls in hundreds of them and the Avengers have to step up their game.

They just seemed too much like moving scrap metal.

I really like this idea and it would have contrasted much better with the first film which is basically identical.

Lots of Alien Fodder and one Big Bad

 

[serenewarfare]

I'm thinking they could have made Ultron more threatening by making his bots less numerous but more intimidating. Make them individually formidable, so maybe one gets a good punch on the Hulk, or another single-handedly combats Iron Man, then you can have the Meta Cooler like reveal when Ultron calls in hundreds of them and the Avengers have to step up their game.

They just seemed too much like moving scrap metal.

That's mainly what they were. Just fodder to keep the Avengers busy while Ultron completed his plan. Ultron made it clear that he wanted to be the one responsible for the Avengers' deaths, not his minions.

 

[ash_ag]

You know, the emphasis on Quicksilver's increased metabolism, Dr Cho's healing tissues, and the mixed signals regarding the event (Scarlet Witch going nuts, while Hawkeye says "it's been a long day") makes me think there's an intended ambiguity on whether or not Quicksilver really died.

We know the Blu-ray cut will be longer than the theater cut, and we also know it'll offer an alternate ending. I'm starting to think that may be related to Quicksilver's fate, and potentially a backdoor for a future inclusion of him somewhere down the line.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Are you talking about the scene where Cap is keeping Ultron busy and needs to be saved by Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch?

That's the last fight between them solo..basically stalling and Ultron wasn't in his final body, I dont think movie Ultron ever got his final form (hehehehe found a way) so he just went with his plan minus the body. I gotta see this again though one viewing is overload.

 

[rezuth]

I don't get the "Ultron wasn't threatening" thing. Like, if not for Vision, there's no way the Avengers overcome Ultron. I think some are vastly underestimating how big of a challenge he was. Vision's creation is the only reason they had a chance against him.

This could be in the comics maybe but I never got that feeling in the movie. He couldn't even hurt them himself, the only time he really did he was firing bullets from a plane.

Of course it was impactful. Quicksilver was more contentious with Hawkeye than anyone (other than Stark), so him sacrificing himself for Hawkeye and the kid was symbolic of his finally trusting the Avengers and willing to risk everything for them. It's why Hawkeye named his kid after him. And it sends Wanda over the edge, which will no doubt be revisited in the future. Had they done the "team member dies and inspires the rest to go into the final fight", it would have been no different than Coulson's death in the first film.

The third act was more or less a copy already of the first Avengers movie. Having them fight against a horde again was just tiring and uninspired. I would much have prefered if they had an epic fight against Ultron where they all had to band together in order to defeat him against impossible odds.

 

[serenewarfare]

You know, the emphasis on Quicksilver's increased metabolism, Dr Cho's healing tissues, and the mixed signals regarding the event (Scarlet Witch going nuts, while Hawkeye says "it's been a long day") makes me think there's an intended ambiguity on whether or not Quicksilver really died.

We know the Blu-ray cut will be longer than the theater cut, and we also know it'll offer an alternate ending. I'm starting to think that may be related to Quicksilver's fate, and potentially a backdoor for a future inclusion of him somewhere down the line.

The only reason I think he's really dead is Wanda's reaction. She would be able to "feel his presence" which is why she exploded when he died. If he was still alive, she would know.

 

[More_Badass]

I had re-watched Avengers 1 before 2 and Ultron was a better villain than Loki IMO. Loki is more complex, the better character by far, but Ultron was easily the bigger and more physical threat. Loki was more passive, let himself get captured, didn't do much during the Battle of New York besides get blasted by Iron Man, get into a short fight with Thor, get exploded by an arrow, and then got destroyed by Hulk

Here, from the first moment, Ultron is attacking them in their sanctuary. He's going toe-to-toe with Cap, Thor, and Iron Man. He's on the front lines, taunting and fighting the heroes. He had this unstoppable presence due to being able to effortlessly replace himself. While the invasion may have been bigger in terms of an overall game changer (alien invasion!), Utron's plan threatened human extinction. The stakes felt higher

 

[SpyGuy239]

Movie was great, loved the action scenes especially the one with Tony/Iron man in them and Captain America and well Hulk too.

I think the writing in this movie seems to have taken a step back though...I don't know some of it seemed really cliched and "childish" which I think the First Avenger did much better! I was slightly disappointed in this regard.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

You know, the emphasis on Quicksilver's increased metabolism, Dr Cho's healing tissues, and the mixed signals regarding the event (Scarlet Witch going nuts, while Hawkeye says "it's been a long day") makes me think there's an intended ambiguity on whether or not Quicksilver really died.

We know the Blu-ray cut will be longer than the theater cut, and we also know it'll offer an alternate ending. I'm starting to think that may be related to Quicksilver's fate, and potentially a backdoor for a future inclusion of him somewhere down the line.

my brother also felt it would end up being a situation like this , he's down but no out type deal.

Just in time for the New Avengers

 

[rezuth]

It was implied that that particular city hated Stark, likely due to civilian causalities from Stark weaponry. Look at the opening when the crowd throws acid and angrily yells at the drones and there's the graffiti on Iron Man on the wall.

More than just a random city. This was a place that had been hurt by "Stark" in the past.

I'm willing to guess there is more than one city that has been hurt by "Stark" it just didn't make it more motivated. They really should have explored that theme a lot more than just a glance at the start if they wanted to use it as a motivation for why they end up there.

 

[ash_ag]

The only reason I think he's really dead is Wanda's reaction. She would be able to "feel his presence" which is why she exploded when he died. If he was still alive, she would know.

These things are very fluid in comic books. Wanda reacted as if he died, but she does tend to overreact as a character. People on the Helicarier were more cool about it, and while that's relatively a believable reaction given the weight of the whole situation, it does back the sentiment that there's an intended ambiguity as to what really happened.

 

[neorej]

This could be in the comics maybe but I never got that feeling in the movie. He couldn't even hurt them himself, the only time he really did he was firing bullets from a plane.

Iron Man annihilated him at point blank range and Ultron was all like "LOL, new body". Ultron just reboots in another drone, builds up a new armor and bam, you're back at square one. Over and over again.

 

[serenewarfare]

This could be in the comics maybe but I never got that feeling in the movie. He couldn't even hurt them himself, the only time he really did he was firing bullets from a plane.

I disagree. By the time he got to his final form going into the final battle, the individual Avengers were no match for him, and the team together could just either run or distract him. It wasn't until Vision cut him off from the internet that they could really stop him, and even then it took the whole team plus an Infinity Stone.

The third act was more or less a copy already of the first Avengers movie. Having them fight against a horde again was just tiring and uninspired. I would much have prefered if they had an epic fight against Ultron where they all had to band together in order to defeat him against impossible odds.

I don't think it was a copy. It had similar elements, but those elements existed for different reasons. The most basic idea of "heroes fight a horde of monsters" was there yes, but the horde served a completely different purpose here. In the first film, the horde was the only threat. Loki was the leader, but he was no match for the Avengers and really didn't do shit once the Chitauri showed up. In this film, the horde was a means to an end for Ultron. He needed something to keep the Avengers off his back while he executed his real plan. The leader was more important than the fodder in Avengers 2, while the opposite was true in the first film. So, yes, the basic idea was the same, but the execution and reasoning was completely different.

 

[Alienous]

So one thing I don't quite get. I assumed that the Vision tried to sever Ultron's connection to anything but the body he was in, and was successful in doing that, so that he couldn't just jump into another body or into the internet.

But the last body the the Vision destroys seems to have Ultron's personality. It's not just a drone trying to complete it's assignment, it decides to escape. So does that mean that each drone contained Ultron's personality at all moments, or what?

 

[serenewarfare]

So one thing I don't quite get. I assumed that the Vision tried to sever Ultron's connection to anything but the body he was in, and was successful in doing that, so that he couldn't just jump into another body or into the internet.

But the last body the the Vision destroys seems to have Ultron's personality. It's not just a drone trying to complete it's assignment, it decides to escape. So does that mean that each drone contained Ultron's personality at all moments, or what?

I don't think Vision was severing his ties to the other Ultron bodies, but to the internet as a whole so that he could not run off into a data stream and escape like he did from Stark Tower.

 

[Messypandas]

So one thing I don't quite get. I assumed that the Vision tried to sever Ultron's connection to anything but the body he was in, and was successful in doing that, so that he couldn't just jump into another body or into the internet.

But the last body the the Vision destroys seems to have Ultron's personality. It's not just a drone trying to complete it's assignment, it decides to escape. So does that mean that each drone contained Ultron's personality at all moments, or what?

He was in all bodies at all times, which is why he referred to himself as being "I'm already there, you'll catch on" and why the proxies relayed his taunts in real time. But it seemed his severance from the net removed any escape plan from all bodies. So they could be whittled down.

 

[rezuth]

I don't think it was a copy. It had similar elements, but those elements existed for different reasons. The most basic idea of "heroes fight a horde of monsters" was there yes, but the horde served a completely different purpose here. In the first film, the horde was the only threat. Loki was the leader, but he was no match for the Avengers and really didn't do shit once the Chitauri showed up. In this film, the horde was a means to an end for Ultron. He needed something to keep the Avengers off his back while he executed his real plan. The leader was more important than the fodder in Avengers 2, while the opposite was true in the first film. So, yes, the basic idea was the same, but the execution and reasoning was completely different.

I agree that they served different purposes but the execution was too similar for me. I felt like this movie needed something new to stand on its own. They have this amazing cast and never really go anywhere with them. It just felt like a very safe movie modelled after the first one simply because it worked the first time.

Iron Man annihilated him at point blank range and Ultron was all like "LOL, new body". Ultron just reboots in another drone, builds up a new armor and bam, you're back at square one. Over and over again.

I never percived that as a real threat honestly, more of an annoyance. He should have done something in the movie that made him look like a monster instead of empty threats building up to a giant ... floating city.. Eh...

 

[serenewarfare]

I agree that they served different purposes but the execution was too similar for me. I felt like this movie needed something new to stand on its own. They have this amazing cast and never really go anywhere with them. It just felt like a very safe movie modelled after the first one simply because it worked the first time.

Agree to disagree I guess. The first movie was a lot more focused on building the team, whereas this one was focused on fleshing out the connection between its members. Again, I think the most basic structure is similar, but I do not at all think that this felt like the same formula or story as the first film. It felt like a natural evolution.

 

[More_Badass]

I agree that they served different purposes but the execution was too similar for me. I felt like this movie needed something new to stand on its own. They have this amazing cast and never really go anywhere with them. It just felt like a very safe movie modelled after the first one simply because it worked the first time.



I never percived that as a real threat honestly, more of an annoyance. He should have done something in the movie that made him look like a monster instead of empty threats building up to a giant ... floating city.. Eh...

I don't see how it was an empty threat. He was threatening a global extinction event and almost succeeded. The city was literally in free-fall at the end.

 

[Gartooth]

After reflecting on it, it seems like the writers and studio really tried to hold back Ultron from being too dark or violent. Too many jokes, poor motivation without getting into anything interesting, poor bodycount (I like how the team did try to save people, but there needed to be consequences for their actions) and was getting clowned in the final fight. I thought he was a fun character for what we got, but was too watered down and "family friendly". He posed a bigger threat in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes! lol

That's where some of my annoyances come in too, that the studio is trying so hard to not let their heroes come off as wrong or bad which could diminish their "brand" by showing that the Avengers fucked up. Stark never got dragged through the mud for making Ultron which bugs the hell out of me, and he never seemed at all guilty about it. Heck, I don't remember the twins ever getting to have a word in with Stark about their past. So playing them off as superheroic after the team caused massive destruction to a couple of cities didn't sit too well for me.

The sad thing is, is that unless this is a catalyst in Civil War then I don't see the mass destruction of Sokovia ever being brought up again. They already hated the Avengers at the start of the movie and are nearly wiped out by Ultron, yet because the Avengers evacuated them the team gets a free ride?

I enjoyed the movie for the most part otherwise, but I suppose I'm disappointed that we didn't get something akin to the Pym / Ultron relationship here and how Pym was devastated about it.

TLDR: This movie lacked balls.

 

[rezuth]

I don't see how it was an empty threat. He was threatening a global extinction event and almost succeeded. The city was literally in free-fall at the end.

I'm pretty sure it was acknowledged that at the height it was falling from wouldn't be "global extinction". He just didn't do anything to warrant his label and the hype that was coming up for the movie. He just did a lot of threats and jumped around. He should have done more "evil" things throughout the movie so you could feel that this guy really fucking means business.

Agree to disagree I guess. The first movie was a lot more focused on building the team, whereas this one was focused on fleshing out the connection between its members. Again, I think the most basic structure is similar, but I do not at all think that this felt like the same formula or story as the first film. It felt like a natural evolution.

What connection was fleshed out though? They got kinda annoyed at Stark and Hawkeye apparently has a family. Some forced love story between Black Widow and Hulk. It's not like we felt the Avengers all got closer in the movie. It was all rather shallow and didn't click for me.

Having said that I'm genuinely curious to hear in what way you felt it got fleshed out.

 

[LosDaddie]

Duders,
the Vision can wield Thor's hammer. He smashed Ultron's face with it.

What the fuck

 

[serenewarfare]

What connection was fleshed out though? They got kinda annoyed at Stark and Hawkeye apparently has a family. Some forced love story between Black Widow and Hulk. It's not like we felt the Avengers all got closer in the movie. It was all rather shallow and didn't click for me.

The ideological differences mainly. The way Cap feels about Stark's decision making. The relationship between Banner and Stark and how Tony seems to trust Bruce more than anyone on the team. The relationship between Hawkeye and his family and Natasha. The team as a whole beginning to think poorly of Tony and his beliefs. Nothing groundbreaking, but development. Progress that gives further depth and prepares the characters for the future so their decisions will be logical and make sense.

 

[Katori]

I don't know what grumpy Kool-aid you guys are sipping, I thought it was better than the first in almost every way.

Would have liked to see a surprise at the end (like a new hero tease) instead of more Thanos tease, but that's alright.

I found Ultron threatening. I found him to be the best movie villain Marvel has done so far, although I feel like his motivations in the final act were poorly explained. I pieced together that he turned the city into a meteor to cause a mass extinction with various vibranium and repulsor based technology, but they could have had a few throwaway lines about it.

Vision and Scarlet Witch were both so, so good. Her accent sucked though (inconsistent) and I hope she loses it in the next appearance. So this whole time I thought Vision was going to be CG...guess he's just a guy in costume. He looked great.

Quicksilver was underutilized and added nothing. Same with Strucker, although he was far less important. And no, Whedon can't possibly make me care about Hawkguy--even though I'll pay attention to Linda Cardellini in anything.

Don Cheadle bores me to tears, but at least he'll have Tony backing him up for the next few movies hopefully. Bring on more Falcon.

And, seriously, I love Whedon's tone 98% of the time, but why couldn't he have just let Cap say "Avengers, assemble!"?

2. They seriously need to stop calling themselves Avengers, they called themselves that 56 times. We get it, you are avengers, don't need to keep reminding us.

Totally disagree, they ARE Avengers, why not say it? I'd sure as hell call myself that.

 

[More_Badass]

Can Marvel use Spider-Man villains? It would be cool for the opening scene of Infinity War being the New Avengers taking on the Sinister Six or something like that, like in the Ultimates

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Duders,
the Vision can wield Thor's hammer. He smashed Ultron's face with it.

What the fuck

Whats the problem? He is worthy. Anyone who is worthy can wield Mjolnir, Captain America will do this, too.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Didn't care for the first film at all, but this was MUCH better.

There are flaws (Thor's vision quest seems like it was cut in half, Selvig is magically no longer insane like he was in Thor 2 and has a prestigious university job, Strucker's death should have been on screen), but it's redeemed by Ultron being perfect. People have said he's too comical, but I love the idea of Ultron as a warped version of Stark.

Because right there is the seed for Civil War. And it's done so subtly most people missed it.

 

[serenewarfare]

Didn't care for the first film at all, but this was MUCH better.

There are flaws (Thor's vision quest seems like it was cut in half, Selvig is magically no longer insane like he was in Thor 2 and has a prestigious university job, Strucker's death should have been on screen), but it's redeemed by Ultron being perfect. People have said he's too comical, but I love the idea of Ultron as a warped version of Stark.

Because right there is the seed for Civil War. And it's done so subtly most people missed it.

I think the Thor scene was definitely cut, as the scene with the mysterious woman in ther trailer took place in the memory water and Whedon said that scene was cut in editing. So there was definitely more to the Thor memory scene than we saw.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I think the Thor scene was definitely cut, as the scene with the mysterious woman in ther trailer took place in the memory water and Whedon said that scene was cut in editing. So there was definitely more to the Thor memory scene than we saw.

Yay.

I'm surprised that I want to see a longer cut of a film that's already very long. But this really does need a directors cut.

 

[Dilly]

After reflecting on it, it seems like the writers and studio really tried to hold back Ultron from being too dark or violent. Too many jokes, poor motivation without getting into anything interesting, poor bodycount (I like how the team did try to save people, but there needed to be consequences for their actions) and was getting clowned in the final fight. I thought he was a fun character for what we got, but was too watered down and "family friendly". He posed a bigger threat in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes! lol

That's where some of my annoyances come in too, that the studio is trying so hard to not let their heroes come off as wrong or bad which could diminish their "brand" by showing that the Avengers fucked up. Stark never got dragged through the mud for making Ultron which bugs the hell out of me, and he never seemed at all guilty about it. Heck, I don't remember the twins ever getting to have a word in with Stark about their past. So playing them off as superheroic after the team caused massive destruction to a couple of cities didn't sit too well for me.

The sad thing is, is that unless this is a catalyst in Civil War then I don't see the mass destruction of Sokovia ever being brought up again. They already hated the Avengers at the start of the movie and are nearly wiped out by Ultron, yet because the Avengers evacuated them the team gets a free ride?

I enjoyed the movie for the most part otherwise, but I suppose I'm disappointed that we didn't get something akin to the Pym / Ultron relationship here and how Pym was devastated about it.

TLDR: This movie lacked balls.

This I agree with. Everytime Ultron had a line of dialogue that was building him up to be menacing, it got ruined by him making a joke.

 

[serenewarfare]

This I agree with. Everytime Ultron had a line of dialogue that was building him up to be menacing, it got ruined by him making a joke.

He's meant to be a creation in the image of Tony Stark. His joking is a direct result of that. It makes complete sense given the origin of the character.

 

[Red]

Ultron's conflicted behavior was great, and I wish we saw more of it. To make him act like Stark was inspired.

Mark Ruffalo does a great Banner. He offers the best performance.

 

[More_Badass]

He's meant to be a creation in the image of Tony Stark. His joking is a direct result of that. It makes complete sense given the origin of the character.

I mean, it's brought up so many times. Wanda and Klaue both say how alike Ultron and Tony are

I'm happy we didn't get yet another emotionless killing machine.

 

[Ithil]

He's meant to be a creation in the image of Tony Stark. His joking is a direct result of that. It makes complete sense given the origin of the character.

This was very clearly set-up with the "omelette" and "he beat me by one second" bit, but people seem to have a pre-notion of what a robot villain has to be like.
I think Ultron will work better on rewatches for many people.

 

[Blader]

I love how War Machine arriving in the climax is structured as a "HOLY SHIT" moment but since no one actually gives a fuck about War Machine, the audience is just like "Okay."

Should've put Falcon in there, Whedon tsk tsk

Funny, War Machine showing up in the battle got one of the biggest reactions in my crowd.

 

[Winterfang]

Whats the problem? He is worthy. Anyone who is worthy can wield Mjolnir, Captain America will do this, too.

Does that mean he isn't worthy now? Maybe after he overcome his fear he would be able.

Does that mean that the Captain almost moved the hammer of pure strength and will alone? Badass.

 

[Entryhazard]

so something i want to know

who will be the most powerful character of Phase 3

Captain America
Dr. Strange
Guardians of The Galaxy (all of them togeather)
Spider-Man
Thor
Black Panther
Captain Marvel
Inhumans (?)

Dr. Strange, Thor and Black Bolt would be the strongest of the list

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Does that mean he isn't worthy now? Maybe after he overcome his fear he would be able.

Does that mean that the Captain almost moved the hammer of pure strength and will alone? Badass.

No. He is only "not that" worthy right now.

Strength doesnt allow you to move Mjolnir. You could lift planets but Mjolnirs magic enhancements would make you still unable to lift him.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Does that mean he isn't worthy now? Maybe after he overcome his fear he would be able.

Does that mean that the Captain almost moved the hammer of pure strength and will alone? Badass.

The other possible theory is that there's nothing worthy about lifting the hammer during a party game.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

This could be in the comics maybe but I never got that feeling in the movie. He couldn't even hurt them himself, the only time he really did he was firing bullets from a plane.

Vision cut off his access to the internet, without him doing that the dude is literally invincible.

It doesn't matter if an Avenger can fuck up his body because that doesn't matter to Ultron.

 

[More_Badass]

Dr. Strange, Thor and Black Bolt would be the strongest of the list

Feige said Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel will be one of or possibly the most powerful hero in the MCU

 

[serenewarfare]

Vision cut off his access to the internet, without him doing that the dude is literally invincible.

It doesn't matter if an Avenger can fuck up his body because that doesn't matter to Ultron.

I think that's what most people misunderstand about Ultron. Without Vision around, he's almost impossible to stop.

 

[Winterfang]

The other possible theory is that there's nothing worthy about lifting the hammer during a party game.

I was expecting this to be a set up where Steve lift it a little, realized it he could lift it and didn't to make Thor feel better. Then at the end of the battle, there's him and Ultron, the hammer on the ground and capt armors up and fight him. But the first part wouldn't be very him.

I liked how the set up Vision being worthy. Very simple way of making everyone gasp and realize he was one their side.

 

[serenewarfare]

I was expecting this to be a set up where Steve lift it a little, realized it he could lift it and didn't to make Thor feel better. Then at the end of the battle, there's him and Ultron, the hammer on the ground and capt armors up and fight him. But the first part wouldn't be very him.

I liked how the set up Vision being worthy. Very simple way of making everyone gasp and realize he was one their side.

I think they are building to Steve picking it up when they are fighting Thanos. And goddamn what a moment that will be.

 

[Messypandas]

Proof Ultron is Tonys teenage child, really doesn't like being compared to daddy. Freaks out when his internet is cut-off.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I think they are building to Steve picking it up when they are fighting Thanos. And goddamn what a moment that will be.

I'd love it if Cap reaches for his shield, grabs the hammer without knowing it, cracks Thanos in the face with it and is all...

'Huh.'

Then casually throws it to Thor.