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2. These Sony-backed games take up the kickstarter page completely and drive many smaller studios and projects into obscurity. Alright, this one I'm not sure about but I am worried if people are so focused on Sony-backed titles, Kickstarter will slowly stop being used as its original purpose.

I dont think you have to worry about this more now than it was before. If more titles are being put up for kickstarting, it means that there is more competition, but competition was always there. People are interested in the projects/games themself, trying to get them. It doesnt matter if its a big or small developer making the game as long as people are interested in what they see.

Kickstarter's original purpose is mainly to make sure that ideas that normally wouldnt be made could be a reality.

 

[kuroshiki]

I don't doubt it. Certainly the extra funds help developers make better games and put food on the table, but I think it is important for everyone to understand that the motives are not altruistic. Companies exist to make money and they will make decisions in order to further that goal. Noone is 'nice' for the sake of it.

First you said.

you can only actually claim that you are helping someone when you don't have a personal stake on the matter. Otherwise it is simply an investment, pure and simple.

So I responded saying no, see kiva.org, investment and helping can co-exist.

and now you are saying.

I think it is important for everyone to understand that the motives are not altruistic.

What are you trying to say...? That help is not a help unless the motive is 100% altruistic?

I'm sorry but your logic is... not making much sense to me.

 

[HMD]

Thread title change is pretty immature to be honest.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Aren't they saying this exact thing when they proudly proclaim "Game X is coming exclusively on Xbox!" or, "Game Y is coming first on PS4!", or "Game Z has exclusive DLC for WiiU!"?

I am talking about 3rd party exclusive game. Do I need to tell you MS spin around "RoTR is only available for Xbone in Holiday" and when we ask them will it be timed exclusvie, they dodge the question for months?

 

[Ashler]

P.T would be such a great move by Sony.

 

[Melchiah]

I don't doubt it. Certainly the extra funds help developers make better games and put food on the table, but I think it is important for everyone to understand that the motives are not altruistic. Companies exist to make money and they will make decisions in order to further that goal. Noone is 'nice' for the sake of it.

That's pretty.much stating the obvious. I think, and hope, no-one is that naive to believe so. Of course, they're doing it for their own benefit, but the plus side is that it also benefits the fans, who get to play a game they couldn't have otherwise. Both parties are satisfied.

 

[Steroyd]

I don't doubt it. Certainly the extra funds help developers make better games and put food on the table, but I think it is important for everyone to understand that the motives are not altruistic. Companies exist to make money and they will make decisions in order to further that goal. Noone is 'nice' for the sake of it.

Obviously, I wouldn't expect Sony to put money in a Shenmue shaped black hole, just because they want to score brownie points with the fans, hence kickstarter being a tangible way to gauge interest and base further decisions from it.

 

[SamuelSupreme]

Skies of Arcadia 2

Could a brother get some love for this and Legend of Dragoon 2?

 

[Outrun]

This is a bad precedent to set. What a can of worms that has been opened

Yep, let's create a list of games that people are clamouring for and have the most ardent fans subsidize game development.... Then redefine the purpose of a KickStarter to be a tool to gauage fan interest...

But hey, it is not my money...

 

[lherre]

I don't see the problem if ...

...The game or franchise is dead and it's unlikely to be alive again (there are plenty of examples in this thread of this type of games)
...you DON'T own the IP (so it leaves outside things like Wipeout or Legend of Dragoon, if a new Wipeout is developed Sony have to fully fund it) and the third party that owns it don't want to develop himself or not interested (first point)
...The information of the back up as a publisher must be known as a part of the Kickstart (maybe not with names but at least the people has to know that a publisher is behind).

I'll try to think more "clauses"

 

[liquidtmd]

Thread title change is pretty immature to be honest.

Nah, it amusingly highlights the strawman hyperbole of language some people use in these arguments.

You can be for or against the methods here without jumping to 'THEY ARE NOW / THEY ARE GOING TO HOLD GAMES HOSTAGE'

If Shenmue is a hostage he's Nelson Mandela

 

[Unknown Soldier]

OMG A HOSTAGE CRISIS
SOMEONE CALL RAINBOW SIX

Great thread title change lmao

 

[veloxStrix]

Thread title change is pretty immature to be honest.

Found the guy who makes parties more lively.

What makes it so immature? Enlighten us with your blessed opinion, at the very least.

 

[DemonNite]

give us all your money or the dog gets it

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Guys, I'm starting to believe some of us don't want any good in life.

 

[Newtype-001]

Atleast this thread wasnt as bad as the one where sony confirmed they were helping shenmue 3 development. That was just so shameful.

Anyway i think we should get back on topic.

New Resonance of Fate or atleast a game with the same combat gameplay (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Nordicus]

Agreed! This allows a lot of mid tier games to make it on their own without being at the mercy of a publisher or being forced into another creative direction.

And perhaps, smarter budgeting. Injecting a project with too much money to just have it bomb because it's not selling gangbusters and the series dies, is a sad thing to happen.

 

[Dunkley]

Honestly I feel like Kickstarter is a great way to make games happen we want to play that would otherwise not make it past the pitch.

Like Jet Set Radio 3 did.

 

[WolvenOne]

Wow, this turned into a sequel begging thread fast. XD

Anyhow, I'm not really opposed to this, buuuut I doubt situations like this will pop up too often. ShenMue was unique, in that it was a cult hit with an episodic storyline, that was clearly never finished. On top of that, the publisher was willing to loan on the trademark for little to nothing in return, seemingly.

Finding titles that meet this exact set of criteria is going to be hard. Especially when you consider that most publisher's loath to part with thier trademarked properties.

Buuut, with so many Japanese publishers going mobile, there might be a few games that fit, maybe.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Thread title change is pretty immature to be honest.

The truth hurts.

 

[xaszatm]

I dont think you have to worry about this more now than it was before. If more titles are being put up for kickstarting, it means that there is more competition, but competition was always there. People are interested in the projects/games themself, trying to get them. It doesnt matter if its a big or small developer making the game as long as people are interested in what they see.

Kickstarter's original purpose is mainly to make sure that ideas that normally wouldnt be made could be a reality.

Hm, fair enough. I guess my main concern is the fans themselves. Nostalgia really is a double edge sword for marketing and if it doesn't match the dream in a sufficient way, fan hype can quickly turn into fan hate. Like, look at Might Number 9 and Broken Age, both went from being on the most talk of game in town to games look down upon. I think Broken Age still sold well, but I am afraid that one of these projects goes too far and it ends up bringing the whole kickstarter thing down and Sony getting a huge amount of flak for it.

Note that I'm talking about games that are still good, but don't live up to hype, not legitimately bad games that exploit Kickstarter users. If the later ever happens, though I hope it doesn't, then I would say Sony deserved all of the backlash it got.

 

[Loudninja]

Shit all they want his Legend of Dragoon give them what they want. ;_;

 

[Portugeezer]

This is a much better way to gauge interest than any fucking random petition. I still remember all those people who wanted Xenoblade who then didn't buy it, different scenario as the game was already made, but still. People wanting shit have to put their money where their mouth is.

I guess it is also safer for investors, but I guess we should be mad at that for some reason?

I honestly don't mind this.

 

[yatesl]

It's the ultimate form of preorder. Preordering before they even start going in to proper development- with a preorder you can't refund!

I still backed it.

 

[dr guildo]

PT

 

[NEO0MJ]

give us all your money or the dog gets it

I hate dogs. In fact I'll cheer for the mutts death.

 

[duckroll]

New Resonance of Fate or atleast a game with the same combat gameplay (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Omg, yes please. I'm ready to be abused and exploited!

 

[Toki767]

Yep, let's create a list of games that people are clamouring for and have the most ardent fans subsidize game development.... Then redefine the purpose of a KickStarter to be a tool to gauage fan interest...

But hey, it is not my money...

The thing is, how many fanbases out there clamor and beg for games to be localized or made in the past only for them to not support it or wait for it to go on sale once those games actually come out?

There are probably a ton of situations like that. Anyone can go on the internet and talk about how they'd love X game to be made without any intention of supporting or purchasing the game. (Like the Tales fanbase not buying Graces f even though they kept talking about how Namco wouldn't localize games just because it wasn't Vesperia.)

With this Kickstarter, at least Sony or Sega or whoever it was who agreed to let Yu Suzuki launch it basically told the Shenmue fanbase who kept asking for a sequel to put their money where their mouth was. I don't really fault publishers of niche games for wanting to do that.

 

[DemonNite]

I hate dogs. In fact I'll cheer for the mutts death.

Gaf has spoken

 

[Steroyd]

I am talking about 3rd party exclusive game. Do I need to tell you MS spin around "RoTR is only available for Xbone in Holiday" and when we ask them will it be timed exclusvie, they dodge the question for months?

The Rise of Tomb Raider thing was a mess from head to toe. I'll preface and say that the deal itself was well played by Microsoft, however the shitty dancing around questions, Crystal Dynamics blog debacle add in that not only did Tomb Raider sell more on PC and PS4 but SE actually called its first months sales of the reboot dissapointing to the tune of 3.4 million sales, and that was truly a day of "What the fuck is shit!?"

Still pisses me off.

 

[Prime crotch]

Gamers suddendly wake up and found themselves immersed in a capitalist world where everything is a commodity and then proceed to bitch about those commodities not being to their liking.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

PT

I just realized that she is pregnant...

 

[Nozem]

Klonoa!!! :O

Good one!

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Guys, I'm starting to believe some of us don't want any good in life.

They're represent for Justice Consumers who fight against evil corps that don't use their own money to fully develop the game

 

[nubbe]

It's the ultimate form of preorder. Preordering before they even start going in to proper development- with a preorder you can't refund!

I still backed it.

I would never play more than €50

on the plus side dead games might be revived

it is also funny to see Sony trying so hard to gain core cred and how starved for money they are

 

[Nikodemos]

That's pretty.much stating the obvious. I think, and hope, no-one is that naive to believe so. Of course, they're doing it for their own benefit, but the plus side is that it also benefits the fans, who get to play a game they couldn't have otherwise. Both parties are satisfied.

Not only that, but the fans directly contribute to the game's actual existence with their money. People paying for a concept, basically a bunch of artwork, snippets of renders, a couple musical tracks, is to publishers (who have become ever more cautious with their money the more end up going under or consolidating) a considerable endorsement for the title in question.

Publishers want mid-tier games. Unfortunately, their ability to produce such on their own has withered over half a decade ago. I would say their ability to produce concepts of any kind has withered, not least because finding out the public's tastes has become more difficult. They are simply unable to see which concept might become a good mid-tier title, and which should remain a small effort or, conversely, be transformed into a full-blown several-A experience. Crowdfunds are probably the most precise tool at their disposal.

This is a much better way to gauge interest than any fucking random petition. I still remember all those people who wanted Xenoblade who then didn't buy it, different scenario as the game was already made, but still. People wanting shit have to put their money where their mouth is.

I guess it is also safer for investors, but I guess we should be mad at that for some reason?

I honestly don't mind this.

.

 

[Tenebrous]

Honestly, I don't give a toss who pays for the games I'll buy in the future to be made, and I've no idea why anyone else does, either.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Shit all they want his Legend of Dragoon give them what they want. ;_;

I'm guessing this is mainly for third party titles..wouldn't surprise me if SCEJA is already working on Legend of Dragoon or a similar JRPG

 

[kuroshiki]

The thing is, how many fanbases out there clamor and beg for games to be localized or made in the past only for them to not support it or wait for it to go on sale once those games actually come out?

There are probably a ton of situations like that. Anyone can go on the internet and talk about how they'd love X game to be made without any intention of supporting or purchasing the game.

With this Kickstarter, at least Sony or Sega or whoever it was who agreed to let Yu Suzuki launch it basically told the Shenmue fanbase who kept asking for a sequel to put their money where their mouth was. I don't really fault publishers of niche games for wanting to do that.

We all know talk is cheap. Voting with wallet has the biggest impact in any society/culture. So yeah. this is awesome opportunity to show publishers that they are wrong and there is still market for it.

Konami please fuck yourself and release your unused IPs. I need

GRADIUS!
SUIKODEN!
PARODIUS!
BOMBERMAN!
FAR EAST EDEN!
SUIKODEN!

 

[fertygo]

Many people would wish they exploited with Megaman Legend 3 I think.

 

[Sidewinder]

Kickstart Colony Wars while you're at it Sony and then WipEout and later Motorstorm...thx!

I've got 0 concerns about that, Shenmue 3 would still be dead in the water if not for Sony and this Kickstarter campaign funded by the fans.

So go on and ask the fans if they want the above mentioned games, let them vote with their wallets, because let's be honest, polls are fine and dandy, but putting crosses is free and doesn't mean they'll shell out cash for these games when they materialize.

Of course you shouldn't flood Kickstarter with all of them at the same time

 

[Immaculate]

second time my titles been changed c'mon lol

 

[keviny]

Beyond Good & Evil 2, pretty please!

 

[Loudninja]

I'm guessing this is mainly for third party titles..wouldn't surprise me if SCEJA is already working on Legend of Dragoon or a similar JRPG

I know it is

I am just glad GG is atleast working on a RPG.

 

[GavinGT]

Boy, this again.

 

[yurinka]

I'd say it's a misinterpretation of the PR guy when saying that Gio is building the list.

The list is to produce inside Sony localizations of ports demanded by players, the Shenmue Kickstarter would be an exception.

 

[maquiladora]

This thread is ridiculous. The Shenmue Kickstarter is the result of deal struck between Yu Suzuki and Sega. Sony jumped in to support it after the fact.

 

[test_account]

Keyword. Lots of entitlement from concern trolls floating around.

The way I see it:

1) dev lauches crowdfund as leverage for pub negotiations. A successful crowdfund is a far stronger proof-of-concept than any other pitch. Backers represent a relevant segment (they are slightly above, numerically, what statistics considers a representative slice).

2) pub launches crowdfund for niche title and/or in niche genre and/or with niche mechanics. Given the aforementioned constants, conventional focus-testing is likely to produce inconsistent/muddled/negative results compared to people actually fronting their own money. Customers paying for the potential of a concept is a far stronger argument than any amount of focus test groups.

Does this risk turning Kickstarter/IndieGoGo into preorder sites, basically? No, because there's no 'risk'. That's a good bit of what they were from the very beginning.

Yeah, it can be used as a good selling point indeed. Igarashi pretty much said this out directly in the Bloodstained kickstarter. He said that publishers had claimed that there wasnt any market for those games anymore, but he wanted to prove that they are wrong.

Hm, fair enough. I guess my main concern is the fans themselves. Nostalgia really is a double edge sword for marketing and if it doesn't match the dream in a sufficient way, fan hype can quickly turn into fan hate. Like, look at Might Number 9 and Broken Age, both went from being on the most talk of game in town to games look down upon. I think Broken Age still sold well, but I am afraid that one of these projects goes too far and it ends up bringing the whole kickstarter thing down and Sony getting a huge amount of flak for it.

Note that I'm talking about games that are still good, but don't live up to hype, not legitimately bad games that exploit Kickstarter users. If the later ever happens, though I hope it doesn't, then I would say Sony deserved all of the backlash it got.

I understand. And sure, there is indeed always a risk of games not living up to the hype. Sometimes remakes or new games with a new artstyle etc. (or going from 2D to 3D/2.5D) doesnt always manage to capture the same feeling as the original game(s) had.

 

[Sesuadra]

We all know talk is cheap. Voting with wallet has the biggest impact in any society/culture. So yeah. this is awesome opportunity to show publishers that they are wrong and there is still market for it.

Konami please fuck yourself and release your unused IPs. I need

GRADIUS!
SUIKODEN!
PARODIUS!
BOMBERMAN!
FAR EAST EDEN!
SUIKODEN!

You forgot Suikoden.

 

[GavinGT]

It's extortion, a hostage situation. "Give us X dollars or you'll never see your favourite game again!" All that would be missing is for the Kickstarter to have a picture of the franchise hero with a beaten face holding up a picture of a recent newspaper to really bring the reality into the situation there.

And the fact that it's being discussed to happen again alone tells me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out. What defines a "risky" idea for a game will be stretched thinner and thinner and thinner.