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Jim Sterling v. Digital Homicide: The "Interview"

This was just embarrassing. The guy doesn't have a clear understanding of lots of things, including the job of a critic nor fair use policies, and he seems to think his game should be somewhat exempt from criticism because they're a pair of low budget indie devs. His whole argument was a total mess, and he should have addressed specific criticisms or issues rather than all the deflection and trying to then attack Jim and spent so much time trying to prove Jim was a bully and a hypocrite.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Did you listen to the interview?

The thing I find strange about all the people saying he didn't deserve this negative attention, is that there was another person there with him. Presumably another grown adult, who I can only guess was sitting there with a laptop attempting to rapidly look up links and video clips in an attempt to back up his colleague's point of view. So it's not just this one individual, which is never what it was about. It's about the company as a whole. And if the two people in the interview are both working for DigiHom and both thought this interview was a good idea, then they even further deserve to be in the massive hole they've just dug themselves.

Yes, in full. Though it was rather long so if I missed a section where he did, please point it out. I've said before on this very forum my disdain for these poor examples of games being labelled 'a collection of art assets', because aside from those that are literally swap a few things around, all of them require a serious effort in coding to work at all, something the dev mentions here with their 'it would just be a picture' response. I support his view in that regard, probably singularly among all the words that came out of the guys mouth.
 
I know a bunch of you are massive Jim fans and wanna hate on the guy in every way possible, but I don't think he came off as bad as people making out. He had some good points but didn't argue them as well as could have.
 

ghostjoke

Banned
Yes, in full. Though it was rather long so if I missed a section where he did, please point it out. I've said before on this very forum my disdain for these poor examples of games being labelled 'a collection of art assets', because aside from those that are literally swap a few things around, all of them require a serious effort in coding to work at all, something the dev mentions here with their 'it would just be a picture' response. I support his view in that regard, probably singularly among all the words that came out of the guys mouth.

The point Jim was getting at is that you can't just take random assets and stick them together and get something appealing. I don't think he ever dismissed the work that was done on the game's code (regardless of its quality), just that it's better to have a cohesive art direction. Best thing I can point to are the early episodes of the Broken Age documentary and the amount of work that went into getting a style for that game, and it looks amazing because of it.
 

Cday

Banned
Jim doesn't command a mob either, though. And he's a vocal opposer of harassment.

When it suits him I'm sure he is very vocal as he is about anything he thinks. It may surprise you, but at least part of the audience of Jim "Fucking" Sterling are less than the most noble people you'll find on the internet. He ought to know that better than anyone and exercise some restraint and good sense to balance that out. It just comes with the territory of his schtick and this isn't some corporate AAA dev who have their own PR team to sort things out and shield them, this is just a couple dudes from what I understand. That's where it crosses the line into personal attacks for me and now Jim's been explicitly told about this attention that they've gotten as the result of his videos, yet he continues to draw attention to them. There are a few potential purposes for his continued interest and none of them sit well with me.
 
I know a bunch of you are massive Jim fans and wanna hate on the guy in every way possible, but I don't think he came off as bad as people making out. He had some good points but didn't argue them as well as could have.
Ehhh... I felt bad for the guy but he really did come across as a child throwing a temper tantrum.

When it suits him I'm sure he is very vocal as he is about anything he thinks. It may surprise you, but at least part of the audience of Jim "Fucking" Sterling are less than the most noble people you'll find on the internet. He ought to know that better than anyone and exercise some restraint and good sense to balance that out. It just comes with the territory of his schtick and this isn't some corporate AAA dev who have their own PR team to sort things out and shield them, this is just a couple dudes from what I understand. That's where it crosses the line into personal attacks for me and now Jim's been explicitly told about this attention that they've gotten as the result of his videos, yet he continues to draw attention to them. There are a few potential purposes for his continued interest and none of them sit well with me.

I can agree with that. It sort of crosses the line of good taste when the person he's "arguing" with thinks that the dictionary definition (???) of "leech" is a good argumentative point and is clearly about to have a breakdown.
 

iosefe

Member
damn

"So you're saying the positive in the Slaughtering grounds...is someone elses work."
Jim spitting simple ether
 
Yes, in full. Though it was rather long so if I missed a section where he did, please point it out. I've said before on this very forum my disdain for these poor examples of games being labelled 'a collection of art assets', because aside from those that are literally swap a few things around, all of them require a serious effort in coding to work at all, something the dev mentions here with their 'it would just be a picture' response. I support his view in that regard, probably singularly among all the words that came out of the guys mouth.

Have you even seen the games he makes? Im and indie who works with unity and the only thing he does are shitty unplayable messes with open source assets (and stolen images from google).
He clearly has a mental problem were he doesnt really understand what he is doing wrong, or basically want to get quick rich by scaming with multiple shitty games without an effort that can get a little money here and there.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Jim Sterleech huh? Huh? HUH?

It was kinda rough listening to this thing cause the logic this guy uses is......weird.
Like the "you thought the bullet sounds were bad" part? Kinda blew my mind.

To be honest, up till now I was pretty sure that Digital Homicide were just two college students with too much time and money and a rudimentary knowledge of Unity, making shitty games on purpose and enjoying the drama around it. That's why I expected that this thing would be more "Uwe Boll-y" with them claiming that they are making the greatest games of all time and Jim quitting after 5 minutes cause he has no time for this crap.
Not sure what to think now.
 

hamchan

Member
This is an incredible interview. Jim barely had to say anything for the developer to embarrass himself and come off, quite frankly, as someone completely non-sensical and a bit crazed. His arguments were TERRIBLE holy hell. Jim struck gold by having a beef with these loonies.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
"So are you related to [Name I forgot]?"
"No"
"Uhhh....okay let's move on"

What? Who was that person anyway?
 

Crypt

Member
Ehhh... I felt bad for the guy but he really did come across as a child throwing a temper tantrum.

Pretty much. He's just can't take criticism for his crap games. He also thinks he's entitled to be successful at something he's not good at. It's like he doesn't understand that just because you try to get better at something means you're insulated from the effects of being part of a market where people can hate your games.
 
This was just one false analogy after the other.

I found myself unable to do anything else while listening to the interview because of how unbelievable it was. I mean... programming is based on logic, so him lacking any semblance of it isn't surprising... but still.

I honestly think I wouldn't be able to come up with such absurdities even if I tried to.
 

ultracal31

You don't get to bring friends.
I'm at the part where DM is talking about the ID content part and he keeps mentioning how 'we' don't have the money to take Jim to court.

There's a 'we'? I thought it was just the one guy
 

Alienous

Member
Holy shit.

"There's been people that have come on the forums and said we're way undercharging for the value of code that is involved"

The 'value of code'?

What is this nonsense?

"Pick up a program"

What?
 

wolffang242

Neo Member
I'm at the part where DM is talking about the ID content part and he keeps mentioning how 'we' don't have the money to take Jim to court.

There's a 'we'? I thought it was just the one guy

If you listen closely at one or two points you hear a second guy with the developer. I think its when they pull up the jimquisition as evidence.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
The point Jim was getting at is that you can't just take random assets and stick them together and get something appealing. I don't think he ever dismissed the work that was done on the game's code (regardless of its quality), just that it's better to have a cohesive art direction. Best thing I can point to are the early episodes of the Broken Age documentary and the amount of work that went into getting a style for that game, and it looks amazing because of it.

Yeah, and that is totally a fair position. But his simplification of what makes the game is dismissing that work. The nature of the asset store - and this devs use of it - exists for a reason. If this guy codes, there is nothing wrong with him paying for his art. Jim has acknowledged this in a recent episode, but I still don't think he understands the work involved with the code.

Have you even seen the games he makes? Im and indie who works with unity and the only thing he does are shitty unplayable messes with open source assets (and stolen images from google).
He clearly has a mental problem were he doesnt really understand what he is doing wrong, or basically want to get quick rich by scaming with multiple shitty games without an effort that can get a little money here and there.

Only on Jim's videos. It looks terrible, but I can still appreciate that even that took work to put together. I empathise with the dev exactly because he doesn't seem to understand the difference, for whatever reason. He seems to believe what he has said.
 
Gawd, that was the worst thing I've listened to in a long time. Atrocious stuff. It just made me angry. But at the end I tried to be Zen about it.

Obviously the dev made an utter pigsear out of himself and frankly deserved it.

But I can't help but feel bad for him. He obviously feels passionately that he was wronged and in his mind all his arguments are immensely strong - even when they collapse almost immediately when presented. This is making him even angrier. You can feel it with the "whatever man" comments and indeed the childish copying Jim's laugh.

It's a bit like the bully scene in Gross Point Blank. You want Jim to just grab him by the head and say it's okay, there is no "you and me", we are not fighting. And then hug.

I sincerely hope that one day the dev will be in a better, happier place in his life and look back on this terrible confrontation with all the cringe and shame we all feel.
 

ultracal31

You don't get to bring friends.
I was skipping around the interview. Where is the leeches bit?

I believe it's about the 20-25 minute mark as I'm 25 minutes in and DM is now going through how Jim focused on just the bad parts of the games DM has released, correcting Jim on release order and that DM is getting 'better'.
 
The guy has some good points, like Jim claiming nothing good in slaughtering grounds, the guy brings up the bullet sounds and Jim's response is basically "They aren't good when in your game".

I like Jim, but that is crap imo, the sounds are good or they are not.

And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.
 

NeonBlack

Member
Jim got a free key for the game. That shows a conflict of interest.

Wait, no he didn't

Wait, the person asking for the key said it was him.

Wait, it was an impostor

Between this and his leeches thing, this entire interview is a train-wreck but he keeps shoving in coal.
 

Seik

Banned
I like Jim even though I'm not quite a follower of everything he does.

But wow, I just started watching the couple of first videos about this story, this is hilarious, I mean, the way the devs reacted and all that jazz.

I can't help for feel a bit sad for Digital Homicide for the whole thing, but hey, make your game right, folks.
 
"Would you have a job if there were no game developers or video games??!!"

"Hehehe.. no absolutely not."

"Yea exactly so...."

"I'm a little confused by your point."

"Stay with me i'll tell you... I..... uh.... I .... hmm.. sorry i kind of lost my train of thought."

"That's ok. I'll give you a minute to get it back."

HAHAHAALOL fuck.. it's like having a debate with a 5 year old.

Because he lost his train of thought? Happens to the best of us.

I don't know, it's kind of pathetic that everyone except maybe one or two people in this thread is just shitting on the developer when he actually had some reasonably good points. Of course most of them were lost under some of the more outrageously hilarious stuff, but they were there.
Jim's absolutely right about most everything here, but that doesn't mean the other guy is always wrong, and this definitely didn't make the other guy look as bad as some people here make it sound.


So, just to clear things up, around the 36-7 min mark the guy talk about coding. Did he code anything? It was my understanding the copy/pasted assets in and made nothing himself.

This is not how video games work. You can't just copy/paste assets and then have a game... Of course he wrote code. Lots of it, I'm sure.
 
Have to laugh at the DH developer's friend in the background whispering what video Jim supposedly asked people to "attack" others in. And it winds up being a silly intro joke.

Pathetic.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I don't know, it's kind of pathetic that everyone except maybe one or two people in this thread is just shitting on the developer when he actually had some reasonably good points. Of course most of them were lost under some of the more outrageously hilarious stuff, but they were there.

Like what?
 
The guy has some good points, like Jim claiming nothing good in slaughtering grounds, the guy brings up the bullet sounds and Jim's response is basically "They aren't good when in your game".

I like Jim, but that is crap imo, the sounds are good or they are not.

And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.

Jims only mistake to that point was to even respond to it. I don't blame him for not quite knowing how to respond to it. When is the last time "bullet sounds" were some remarkable part of a game that people should recognize? Is it that crazy that people don't even notice, especially when everything around them is garbage? It's like saying "you can't say a movie is total crap because that one character is wearing a pretty nice shirt!" The fact that he desperately has to hang his hat on the ducking bullet sounds (which he isn't even responsible for) is sort of making Jims point for him that the game is complete garbage.
 

Mat-triX

Member
Couldn't the guy's 'Leech' argument be compared to a developer 'leeching' off of consumers? Developers are 'reliant on' consumers buying their games. With no consumers, theres no games (or reason to make games). Just like how if there were no games, there would be no game critics/media.

God this is dumb.
 

Audioboxer

Member
I actually feel bad for this guy listening to him. Just completely out of his depth, and very deluded.

How could he have thought this would go well... lol.
 
Only on Jim's videos. It looks terrible, but I can still appreciate that even that took work to put together. I empathise with the dev exactly because he doesn't seem to understand the difference, for whatever reason. He seems to believe what he has said.

But no it didnt, that's really the problem here.

This is not how video games work. You can't just copy/paste assets and then have a game... Of course he wrote code. Lots of it, I'm sure.

Do... do you even know how unity works?
 

hamchan

Member
The guy has some good points, like Jim claiming nothing good in slaughtering grounds, the guy brings up the bullet sounds and Jim's response is basically "They aren't good when in your game".

I like Jim, but that is crap imo, the sounds are good or they are not.


And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.

Well no, how sounds are used are just as important as how high quality the actual sound is.
 
Jims only mistake to that point was to even respond to it. I don't blame him for not quite knowing how to respond to it. When is the last time "bullet sounds" were some remarkable part of a game that people should recognize?

Pretty sure it is a sticking point of every Battlefield game.

Is it that crazy that people don't even notice, especially when everything around them is garbage? It's like saying "you can't say a movie is total crap because that one character is wearing a pretty nice shirt!" The fact that he desperately has to hang his hat on the ducking bullet sounds (which he isn't even responsible for) is sort of making Jims point for him that the game is complete garbage.

I think the guys point was that Jim shits on everything in a bad game, rather than just shitting on the bad parts.

But as I said in another post, he doesn't argue his points well, even they are good points. For example he could have brought up something in addition to bullet sounds. Or maybe he can't, I dunno, I've not played the game. But judging from the interview as a whole, he just doesn't argue good points well.
 

Eppy Thatcher

God's had his chance.
Because he lost his train of thought? Happens to the best of us..

I took that exchange as more of an example of how this dev was floundering as he attempted to weave together whatever points he could to form an argument - which he really failed at - all the while constant level headed logic and questions were being spoon fed to him and for the most part he went into defensive mode hardcore at the drop of a hat.

It's not so much that it's impossible for someone with a good point to lose their train of thought ... but even after Jim helps him along to remember where he was going the point he was making turned out to be just as ridiculous as 95% percent of DH other points.

It's sad that - out of an hour and a half - he managed maybe 2 decent points buried under a bunch of really clueless banter. If you want to give him credit for what felt like stumbling onto something resembling decent debate amidst all his garbage you certainly can. A broken watch is right twice a day and all that.
 

Alienous

Member
I actually feel bad for this guy listening to him. Just completely out of his depth, and very deluded.

How could he have thought this would go well... lol.

You said it. Delusion.

It's a shame because he doesn't seem unintelligent, just really deluded. He has this persecution complex that seems to obscure his sense of reason. And the Digital Homicide person isn't much better.
 
How much work it required is irrelevant. You might have spent every minute of the day coding into the night, if the results are crap they are crap, especially if you are charging money. A critics job is to point that out, not keep quiet and email the developer QA notes. That is the fundamental underlying issue that this guy just doesn't seem to get. He seems to think that because he works hard, or because he doesn't have a lot of money, or is a small developer, or is relatively new, that this should somehow exempt him from criticism. He doesn't have mental issues. He's not crazy. He's just entitled and not very bright.
 

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Jims only mistake to that point was to even respond to it. I don't blame him for not quite knowing how to respond to it. When is the last time "bullet sounds" were some remarkable part of a game that people should recognize?

Battlefield. Just shows though that there is a difference between "good bullet sound effects" and "acceptable bullet sound effects". Even bringing up the bullet thing reeked of desperation. It's like saying "So, you think the font we used was garbage?" It's impossible to argue with such a stupidity.
 
I can't believe people can think they've made something awesome when they have obviously just pieced together cheaply made assets that others have made, whether they exist on the Unity store or elsewhere.

It's one thing to download systems that make coding easier. Coding is hard and downloading a menu system or an RPG chat system because you don't have the time to code it yourself is fine in my eyes, although very limiting. Even buying models on occasion is fine, but maps... Not sure. They are pretty integral to the flow of a game and using other peoples assets in that way is not only lazy but you are obviously not putting game play first. If you had them made for the game then that is a different thing altogether obviously.

I started making a game in unity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLRtU2hzc7M

Very basic stuff and It may not look like a AAA game but it wouldn't bring the same kind of hatred from people like Jim because despite it's obvious amateurishness, it doesn't look like a cash grab.

If you're making a game you need to have a piece of you in it. It's a creative medium. At least one part of it needs to be your own work. Making a generic (don't like that word much but it applies) FPS with re-used assets is not gonna fly with anyone that has any willingness to critique the games they play.

Edit: I didn't actually link that video because of the self promo rule but Neogaf did it anyway and I cant get rid of the URL tags?? I've been banned for that previously and would rather not get a perma for repeating it :/. The game doesn't exist in any monetary way though and probably won't for many years (if ever, if we are going to be honest) so hopefully it's ok. Just meant to show proof of an understanding of game making.
 

Mesoian

Member
Says he doesn't know how to make a video.
Suddenly becomes an expert on making videos.

OH MY GOD THE FRIEND TRYING TO DO FACT CHECKING AND THEN FAILING TO FIND THE THING....

This is like 12 year olds trying to come up with an argument.
 
I use Unity. That takes work to do. You are being disingenuous.

Ive used Unity and I dont know much of programming except the basics, I have a programmer that knows these games and is the one who works with unity programming our games.

Doing a good game in Unity? That takes work and time, LOTS.
Doing the slaughtering grounds? They guy used lots of the fine things unity has to do as little code as he could, and probably copied the rest from some tutorials about making a shooter in unity. And badly so, because Im pretty sure someone who takes a tutorial seriously of doing a shotter with unity, even the most basic youtube tutorial, could create a better game than him (and would probably dont even try to sell it, like this scam artists pretends).
 
Pretty sure it is a sticking point of every Battlefield game.



I think the guys point was that Jim shits on everything in a bad game, rather than just shitting on the bad parts.

But as I said in another post, he doesn't argue his points well, even they are good points. For example he could have brought up something in addition to bullet sounds. Or maybe he can't, I dunno, I've not played the game. But judging from the interview as a whole, he just doesn't argue good points well.


He was constantly bringing up strawmen and very basic analogies as if they meant anything. The gun sounds thing was exactly that. When someone, especially a critic, says that there was nothing redeeming about a game you don't bring up the font on the start menu as a way to prove them wrong. Everybody knows what a critic means when he or she says they didn't find anything enjoyable about a game. Does that necessarily mean you hated every single asset and line of code? Is that the standard we are setting? Dude was just desperately reaching for his "gotcha" moment and having them all blow up in his face. He had no legitimate argument.
 
About... 25 minutes into this:

oSoj138.gif
 
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