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[Beelzebufo]

The guy has some good points, like Jim claiming nothing good in slaughtering grounds, the guy brings up the bullet sounds and Jim's response is basically "They aren't good when in your game".

I like Jim, but that is crap imo, the sounds are good or they are not.

And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.

That's not true though. Like cartoony sound effects can be really well made, but the same punch sound effects that work great in Batman '66 wouldn't be good in The Dark Knight. The point is that if the sound effects are of "objectively" realistic quality, it's weird when it doesn't gel stylistically with the rest of the game.

Like completely realistic gun sound effects wouldn't seem appropriate in Mega a Man 9 for example haha

 

[Cday]

And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.

Agreed. It's like adopting a pitbull, neglecting it, taking it on a leash-less walk and feigning responsibility when it bites someone. Yes I am likening opportunistic internet mob mentality to the brain function of an untrained canine. I suppose I should also point out that the person went up the pitbull, bent over and made smooching sounds at it before being bitten. They're still taking it to the animal shelter because you weren't responsible enough as an owner. Not a perfect analogy, but what is.

 

[ultracal31]

DH - 31:10 timeline -'The problem is that every indie game developers that you crap on they give up right of the bat because they get attack by this huge horde. You stifle innovation!'

 

[Fantastapotamus]

the same punch sound effects that work great in Batman '66 wouldn't be good in The Dark Knight.

You say that but I would probably pay money to see that.

 

[Mesoian]

About... 25 minutes into this:

And it gets worse and worse.

Oh jesus. "I hope the courts take the grey out of copyright law, because that's where the problem is". Holy shit, he's like a tiny Ed Eisner.

 

[Seik]

Now at 20 minutes in the podcast.

Oh my god.

Digital Homicide sounds more like Digital Suicide, dude sounds like a teenager arguing over something he knows nothing about.

 

[Mesoian]

Sweet Jesus, he wants people to praise the elements that he bought from various asset stores individually?

 

[Crypt]

I can't stop imagining this guy as Dane Cook.

 

[Steroyd]

DH: "I don't want your audience to buy my game"

JS: "I can promise you I will tell my audience not to buy your game"

 

[Stallion Dan]

He was constantly bringing up strawmen and very basic analogies as if they meant anything. The gun sounds thing was exactly that. When someone, especially a critic, says that there was nothing redeeming about a game you don't bring up the font on the start menu as a way to prove them wrong. Everybody knows what a critic means when he or she says they didn't find anything enjoyable about a game. Does that necessarily mean you hated every single asset and line of code? Is that the standard we are setting? Dude was just desperately reaching for his "gotcha" moment and having them all blow up in his face. He had no legitimate argument.

Again, his point was poorly argued. If he had listed several things instead of a single thing the argument would have been better presented. It was a legitimate argument, just very poorly argued.

 

[hamchan]

Sweet Jesus, he wants people to praise the elements that he bought from various asset stores individually?

Yeah it's insane.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Again, his point was poorly argued. If he had listed several things instead of a single thing the argument would have been better presented. It was a legitimate argument, just very poorly argued.

If he had several things to list that might be an argument. Since he didn't, it wasn't.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Again, his point was poorly argued. If he had listed several things instead of a single thing the argument would have been better presented. It was a legitimate argument, just very poorly argued.

His "point" was disengenous. Jim's response was the one that was poorly worded. A shit game can still be a complete shit game even if it has good gunshot sounds. It's not the job of the reviewer or critic to scour the game for something, anything good to say about it, which is what he wants.

Jims response should have simply been "if the rest of the game is so crap that it makes every other facet unremarkable, that's not the reviewers fault." If I was playing a game that was complete shit you'd have to excuse me for not being compelled to notice or remember your pre-made gun sounds.

 

[Xater]

Again, his point was poorly argued. If he had listed several things instead of a single thing the argument would have been better presented. It was a legitimate argument, just very poorly argued.

No it's not. If I'm a film critic and I think a film is absolutely terrible, with no redeeming qualities than that is fair. I don't have to say stuff like "Well I guess at least everything was in focus."

 

[Mat-triX]

Sweet Jesus, he wants people to praise the elements that he bought from various asset stores individually?

Positives of Slaughtering Grounds:
+ Has nice front,
+ That one model looked nice (you know the one)
+ It has the color Red. I like Red.

 

[ghostjoke]

Yeah, and that is totally a fair position. But his simplification of what makes the game is dismissing that work. The nature of the asset store - and this devs use of it - exists for a reason. If this guy codes, there is nothing wrong with him paying for his art. Jim has acknowledged this in a recent episode, but I still don't think he understands the work involved with the code.

It really comes down to it being a lot easier to sympathise when you enjoy the end product. I doubt there is any game these days that is a cake walk to code for, but as Jim's job is to inform consumers, he can't exactly spend every episode diving into the difficulties of developing a game and how certain certain shortcuts need to be made. The consumer's enjoyment comes first.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with paying for assets, but how you use it is important and on you, the developer. Going back to the Broken Age example, IIRC parts of the art direction (might have been animation - been a while since I watched it) were outsourced for the sake of time but it kept a cohesive style. My knowledge of the Digital Homicide is entirely on hearing about then putting out dodgy games, but from what I've seen it looks like they just grab assets without thought of how they all come together - which I think is the point Jim takes issue with.

 

[Beelzebufo]

No it's not. If I'm a film critic and I think a film is absolutely terrible, with no redeeming qualities than that is fair. I don't have to say stuff like "Well I guess at least everything was in focus."

I feel like if anything that makes the review even more snarky haha.

"Good gunshot sounds though. They really nailed that."

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

I can't stop imagining this guy as Dane Cook.

UUUHHHMMMMM lol all i can hear is Egoraptor's impersonation now. This interview is actually crazy entertaining with the right amount of imagination.

 

[Seik]

That dude always tries to talk over Jim.

I swear, just that part in the beginning when he cuts him by doing ''AH, AH, AAAH'', I would've said ''If you're not capable of having a proper conversation, then fuck off.''

 

[ultracal31]

51:25 is where DH starts blaming Jim's audience (aka us) as 'soooooooooo aggressive', hateful and bitter.

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

That dude always tries to talk over Jim.

Yup, the inevitable fallback of a person who can't hold a competent, long-term debate with anyone. Shout the same shit ad nauseum over the other person and drown them out. Jim was cool, calm and collected and let him finish the vast majority of times.

Almost near the end, and I'm actually now considering it a good thing that the Steam refunds should be the death knell for this guy.

 

[Mesoian]

Oh my god. This code worth bullshit.

This guy has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Xater]

I feel like if anything that makes the review even more snarky haha.

"Good gunshot sounds though. They really nailed that."

True.

Also I have actually written my fair share of movie reviews and no one ever came back to me or the outlet because of a negative one. I probably was especially negative on The Legend of Chun Li but that thing was a total piece of shit. You put out a bad thing, just take it and move on.

 

[Mesoian]

"I'm not saying what you do is bad"

You just spend 40 minutes telling him he was a bad person that does bad work.

 

[cyborg009]

I lose it at the leech stuff.

 

[hamchan]

That dude always tries to talk over Jim.

I swear, just that part in the beginning when he cuts him by doing ''AH, AH, AAAH'', I would've said ''If you're not capable of having a proper conversation, then fuck off.''

And then at the end he says that Jim interrupted him. Hilarious.

 

[CambriaRising]

This DH guy is an idiot.

 

[Nokagi]

Digital Homicide guy reminds of this author posted awhile back. http://archive.is/rFgtE

Gotta let that shit go man.

 

[ultracal31]

56:50 - 'One day you'll going to have enough subscriber, you're going to make enough money off your patron thing and someone is going to get tired of your shit and sue you. Not saying we are but someone is going to have the power to do it and they're going to win.'

DH then starts making fun of Jim's laugh.

 

[Mesoian]

Damn

"I'm not saying htat you shouldn't do this, but you should probably put your stuff on Newgrounds first until you get your chops together..."

"....well..."

Every argument this guy comes up with just gets instantly shut down.

 

[0xCA2]

This is not how video games work. You can't just copy/paste assets and then have a game... Of course he wrote code. Lots of it, I'm sure.

Scripts are assets in Unity and are sold on the store along with everything else. You could put together a barebones game with minimal effort with several scripts for physics, camera, ai, lighting, ui, etc.

Plus IIRC unity is primarily a drag and drop development tool. You can do a whole lot without code.

 

[Xater]

Damn

"I'm not saying htat you shouldn't do this, but you should probably put your stuff on Newgrounds first until you get your chops together..."

"....well..."

Every argument this guy comes up with just gets instantly shut down.

Or Itch.io where people can pay if they want to. Don't expect people to pay for your first footsteps in game development.

 

[Disgraced]

And Jim needs take some responsibility for his fanbase attacking devs he has made a target of. Yeah he is against it but that doesn't stop him being the cause of it. He is aiming a gun at targets most of the people harassing probably wouldn't have ever known of. Just because he doesn't pull the trigger doesn't absolve of all responsibility.

Agreed. It's like adopting a pitbull, neglecting it, taking it on a leash-less walk and feigning responsibility when it bites someone. Yes I am likening opportunistic internet mob mentality to the brain function of an untrained canine. I suppose I should also point out that the person went up the pitbull, bent over and made smooching sounds at it before being bitten. They're still taking it to the animal shelter because you weren't responsible enough as an owner. Not a perfect analogy, but what is.

Jim doesn't own his audience. He already condemns harrassment in his work. Internet-assholes are going to be Internet-assholes no matter what, I don't know what you're expecting him to do. He does riffs on low-hanging-fruit like this because it's fun, and because people should know about which products are shit and which aren't. But he's not putting ironsights on these devs. They put themselves out there, and are rejecting criticism. And then are mistaking criticism for QA.

 

[Sephiroth503]

This is pretty amazing.

At the dildo bit.

"I'm 3 foot mate" EL-OH-FUCKING-EL

 

[ultracal31]

1:00:27 mark

Jim - 'you are suggesting that the positive in the slaughtering ground is somebody else's work and I should be praising that company?

DH - '...well at least praise SOMEBODY'

Gold right there

 

[CTLance]

Jikes.

This guy is in too deep. Someone pull him out. This is not healthy.

Poor Jim.
Props for trying. I mean, who knows, maybe this could have gone the other way.

 

[Steroyd]

Jim doesn't own his audience. He already condemns harrassment in his work. Internet-assholes are going to be Internet-assholes no matter what, I don't know what you're expecting him to do. He does riffs on low-hanging-fruit like this because it's fun, and because people should know about which products are shit and which aren't. But he's not putting ironsights on these devs. They put themselves out there, and are rejecting criticism. And then are mistaking criticism for QA.

That part baffled me, the DH guy also didn't seem to understand the difference between Jim's Lets Plays and his actual critique, absolute madness.

 

[Mesoian]

Oh god the end...

"How'd I do?"

You didn't do well mate, you didn't do well.

 

[Seik]

55 minutes in.

HE IMITATES THE LAUGH! :lol

''Oh is that where we have devolved into?''

Indeed Jim.

EDIT: And now he tries to back himself up with the guns shots quality being a positive for the game...this just can't be. Holy shit.

EDIT2: Is there someone whispering stuff in the DH guy's ear?

 

[Brashnir]

Yeah, and that is totally a fair position. But his simplification of what makes the game is dismissing that work. The nature of the asset store - and this devs use of it - exists for a reason. If this guy codes, there is nothing wrong with him paying for his art. Jim has acknowledged this in a recent episode, but I still don't think he understands the work involved with the code.

Jim has said in other videos (and tries to allude to it in this interview but can't get the guy to shut up long enough to finish the sentence) that the notion of the asset store, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. If game developers take those assets and put them toward a quality product it's even potentially a good thing.

But in the same video he shits on developers who just take a bunch of assets, slap them together with little regard to how they work together, and make a barely-functional game out of them before putting it up for sale. These guys are in that group.

 

[Einbroch]

This guy is obsessed with "gatchas".

I just imagine him saying something he think is so smart, sitting back, and smirking.

OMG THIS LEECH ARGUMENT IS KILLING ME

 

[RyanPierre]

Oh god the end...

"How'd I do?"

You didn't do well mate, you didn't do well.

I am beyond amazed that he left that in. It's such a beautiful, succinct summary of how oblivious he really is.

 

[ultracal31]

This guy is obsessed with "gatchas".

I just imagine him saying something he think is so smart, sitting back, and smirking.

OMG THIS LEECH ARGUMENT IS KILLING ME

Oh man, you're in for a treat when you get to the gun sound part

 

[Pilgrimzero]

As funny and cringy as that was I feel bad for the guy.

IM temped to buy his game just to make sure his 3 kids eat.

 

[Einbroch]

Oh man, you're in for a treat when you get to the gun sound part

"You're a bad person."

And then he doubles down.

No better way to make a point valid than to personally insult the other person.

 

[Renegade King]

Oh my god.

Listening to this guy reminds of when I had to talk to some of the more stubborn people about software licensing.

Where the customers would call in with a question they have already settled on an answer for, and then not like the truth, and then try to come up with crazy scenarios where they are right.

Everything from his tone, to the times where he would repeat the last sentence when his argument gets stopped, is incredibly similar.

I also can't believe, that as a business, he would specifically ask for a group to people not to purchase his game.

 

[Kacho]

This guy is dumb as bricks. Very hard to listen to.

 

[Smelly Tramp]

when they talk about the definition of leech...

hahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

 

[Juke Joint Jezebel]

IM temped to buy his game just to make sure his 3 kids eat.

Probably has a job outside of his game making, so save your money. I doubt the money he'd make from his games could support a family with 3 kids anyway.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Oh my god.

Listening to this guy reminds of when I had to talk to some of the more stubborn people about software licensing.

Where the customers would call in with a question they have already settled on an answer for, and then not like the truth, and then try to come up with crazy scenarios where they are right.

Everything from his tone, to the times where he would repeat the last sentence when his argument gets stopped, is incredibly similar.

I also can't believe, that as a business, he would specifically ask for a group to people not to purchase his game.

To be fair, he realized how stupid that sounded and switched to "stay off my forum"