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Yves Guillemot: "We learned from the mistakes we made with Watch Dogs"

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I wasn't aware. I still need to buy 4, only been able to play it on a friend's console. (._. )

The side content in FC4 is nothing to write home about tbh, narrative or not. The Shangra-La and Drug trip missions are particularly shite.

Far Cry 4? Rayman Legends? AC Black Flag? ZombiU? and many others

I hated Unity more than anyone on GAF, but the Ubisoft revisionist history is getting out of hand.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
I really dislike Yves. I mean he is just a snake in the grass ready to jump on your ass if you let him bite it.

A dirty liar is what he is.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The side content in FC4 is nothing to write home about tbh, narrative or not. The Shangra-La and Drug trip missions are particularly shite.



I hated Unity more than anyone on GAF, but the Ubisoft revisionist history is getting out of hand.
I see, I also agree with the bolded. It's bonkers.

I mean the biggest mistake they made release watch dogs was in releasing watch dogs. Thing was a turd from top to bottom.
Yes because releasing a game that was their best selling new IP ever and again, received lots of good reception besides the flaws, was a terrible idea. It's really biting them in the foot now. You know now that they have money to fund a sequel and iron out those flaws as well as try new ideas.
 

jimflox

Neo Member
I might be officially (possibly permanently) burned out on "Ubi-games". The stucture of "unlock/climb this tower/checkpoint to further unlock repetitive/generic side content/filler material/fetch quests" has pretty much run it's course for me. I liked FC4, although I did suffer from "icon fatigue" at the end. I skipped Unity completely and have no plans to go back to that series. Watchdogs was ok, but the main character was boring as hell and I have no desire to play any sequel. You can't help but have dega-vu playing Ubi games with that structure these days.

I even find myself lamenting the influence when playing other games. I liked Dragon Age Inquisition quite a bit, but its another example of "over-iconification" of the map, which I partly attribute to the "Ubi-game" syndrome. Even Witcher had a fuck-ton of map icons, though you could find some really interesting side content when exploring those question marks. Just the sight of all the icons makes me a bit sad, however.
 
Yes because releasing a game that was their best selling new IP ever and again, received lots of good reception besides the flaws, was a terrible idea. It's really biting them in the foot now. You know now that they have money to fund a sequel and iron out those flaws as well as try new ideas.

I never said it didn't make business sense, clearly it sold much better than it deserved. But that doesn't mean they didn't press garbage onto that disc and sent it out to unsuspecting individuals.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I never said it didn't make business sense, clearly it sold much better than it deserved. But that doesn't mean they didn't press garbage onto that disc and sent it out to unsuspecting individuals.
How about just because you didn't like the game doesn't mean it was garbage. They were completely honest in what they were selling. There was an entire 101 trailer ffs. "Unsuspecting", please, some people complained that they were showing too much footage of the game.
 

Busty

Banned
Way to miss the point. You weren't using the image in the right context, you got called out, and now you're finding all kinds of excuses to not to own up to it.

You're showing more passion in this reply than Ubisoft have in any of their 'AAA' games in recent years.
 
You're showing more passion in this reply than Ubisoft have in any of their 'AAA' games in recent years.

The Rayman games have been works of art, ACIV was the best in the series, and one of the best games in the generation, and the recent Far Cry games have also been terrific.

You have not real point in your argument, so to the ignore list with you.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're showing more passion in this reply than Ubisoft have in any of their 'AAA' games in recent years.
You seriously haven't contributed anything of value to the discussion, first you point out a pc specific glitch that was fixed the day of release, then you called people who called you out salty, pointed out my tag, and now you're saying this bullshit. Ugh.
 

CaLe

Member
Good grief. Toughen up.

I can just see you posting on GAF while draped over a chaise longue. A handkerchief soaked in smelling salts in one hand just in case you read a post that slightly disagrees with you and you are overcome.

Not sure what toughening up has to do with anything ? Whatever floats your boat ?
 

Dahaka

Member
Looking forward to it. I liked WD and I agree on the gunplay. GTA V's is quite bad in comparison. Also the weak ass sounds.
 

scitek

Member
Well at least nobody will be fooled that it will look great, the game is already downgraded quite a bit and it's subhd on the xbone, not surprising, but unless we see the PS4 version I can't say for sure that they have made much progress in their development process. Remember Unity was 900p on both consoles and initially performed better on the XBONE, this kind of ass-backwards development needs a serious overhaul as Unity was a very rare breed indeed. Same res on both consoles and right now, same performance. What an outlier to the norm. That parity bs and these sub HD resolutions are the first thing UBi needs to work out, especially on the PS4.


Tbh, I'm not confident in them, I believe the division and rainbow six looks disappointing both visually and in gameplay. The next AC is pretty much just the same, it's tired already. For honor is the only interesting game coming from ubisoft from a gameplay perspective and it looks to be technically sound too. Perhaps this is what Ubi should be concentrating on, new games, new engines, sequels to much older games like BG&E 2 for example.

The lesson they need to learn is to let their real talent like Ancel and Vandenberg come up with more ideas.
 

Ledhead

Member
Definitely won't complain about any decision to put an end to bullshots and unrealistic trailers. Just show us what we will get.
 
I never said it didn't make business sense, clearly it sold much better than it deserved. But that doesn't mean they didn't press garbage onto that disc and sent it out to unsuspecting individuals.

Those unsuspecting reviewers who collectively gave it a 80MC, and those unsuspecting players who made it Ubisofts top selling new IP. If only they knew the truth of what they were playing. Surely they wouldn't have touched the filth if they'd known.
 

Euron

Member
What Yves and Ubisoft need to understand is that only a part of the criticism toward Watch Dogs has to do with the downgrade.

Your game design philosophy is overused and very boring at this point. Come up with new objectives. Create interesting side quests instead of trying to pack as many repetitive missions that are essentially all the same into the world as possible.

Stop with the Towers/Hideouts/Chase Missions/Tailing Missions/Random Collectables as your side content. And the driving in Watch Dogs sucked and was way over-utilized.

Your protagonist was one of the worst I've seen in a modern video game. The story was garbage. Stop using revenge for the death of a family member as the plot for all of your games.

So basically I will not buy another Ubisoft Open World game until the design philosophy is changed and I will not buy another Watch Dogs unless Aiden Pearce is done away with in addition to the repetitive design.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
Looking forward to it. I liked WD and I agree on the gunplay. GTA V's is quite bad in comparison. Also the weak ass sounds.

Lol no its not.

Put gtav on free aim

deadzone to zero

Fov to max

Standard fps controls in options

Game plays 10x better and has great gunplay.
 
What Yves and Ubisoft need to understand is that only a part of the criticism toward Watch Dogs has to do with the downgrade.

Your game design philosophy is overused and very boring at this point. Come up with new objectives. Create interesting side quests instead of trying to pack as many repetitive missions that are essentially all the same into the world as possible.

Stop with the Towers/Hideouts/Chase Missions/Tailing Missions/Random Collectables as your side content. And the driving in Watch Dogs sucked and was way over-utilized.

Your protagonist was one of the worst I've seen in a modern video game. The story was garbage. Stop using revenge for the death of a family member as the plot for all of your games.

So basically I will not buy another Ubisoft Open World game until the design philosophy is changed and I will not buy another Watch Dogs unless Aiden Pearce is done away with in addition to the repetitive design.

Okay, so throw away everything on which they've built a successful business?

And do what to replace it?

Besides making a new Driver game, of course.
 

Busty

Banned
You seriously haven't contributed anything of value to the discussion, first you point out a pc specific glitch that was fixed the day of release, then you called people who called you out salty, pointed out my tag, and now you're saying this bullshit. Ugh.

Hang in there champ, you're doing great.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
Okay, so throw away everything on which they've built a successful business?

And do what to replace it?

Besides making a new Driver game, of course.

Uhh yea?

Their succesfull business isnt based on those kinds of games. Ubisoft has turned it into those games, but years ago Ubisoft meant quality and awesome games ( Prince of Persia for instance )

Hey Busty hes right u know, u arent contributing any useful comment at all
 

Euron

Member
Okay, so throw away everything on which they've built a successful business?

And do what to replace it?

Besides making a new Driver game, of course.
I'm not saying stop making open world games. Go for quality over quantitiy. They're trying to cram as much stuff into games as possible instead of focusing on making the content meaningful. It honestly feels more like a checklist than any sort of fun and that's not ok.

They built a successful business because Assassin's Creed is such an awesome concept that still hasn't been fully realized because Ubisoft's formula is holding them back. Hell all of their success is based on amazing concepts. But the execution is lacking.

How should they change? Just look at The Witcher 3. Seriously every dev making open world games should look at the side quests in TW3 (after White Orchard of course). I don't care if going by TW3's method means we get less content. Ten great side missions trump 40 copy and paste fixer contracts any day.

Good. I'm referring to the article in the OP, which only talks about the downgrade. Anyway please don't make assumptions for what I'm saying. I never said they haven't commented on it, only that fixing the gameplay is at least as important of a criticism (probably more important) than the downgrade and they need to understand this if Watch Dogs 2 is to ever be a great game. But until I see some results I'm going to remain skeptical.
 
Uhh yea?

Their succesfull business isnt based on those kinds of games. Ubisoft has turned it into those games, but years ago Ubisoft meant quality and awesome games ( Prince of Persia for instance )

Hey Busty hes right u know, u arent contributing any useful comment at all

Which hasn't sold remotely close to AC, Far Cry or Watch Dogs. Hell the whole series has only sold 10,3 millions has of April 2008. Since then Ubisoft became the 3rd biggest publisher in the world.
 

Setsuna

Member
Lol no its not.

Put gtav on free aim

deadzone to zero

Fov to max

Standard fps controls in options

Game plays 10x better and has great gunplay.

So the way to fix Gta 5s bad controls is to play in first person, while simultaneously devolving the game into a generic FPS, with almost no good quantities in terms of controls?
 
Which hasn't sold remotely close to AC, Far Cry or Watch Dogs. Hell the whole series has only sold 10,3 millions has of April 2008. Since then Ubisoft became the 3rd biggest publisher in the world.

I don't know that Assassin's Creed sells well because it's a repetitive template with varying degrees of successful (or unsuccessful) execution.

The template just makes these games easier, faster, and cheaper to make at significant cost to the end product. Spend some more time creating main missions, working on traversal, ensuring new mechanics aren't broken, etc. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but don't bathe the baby in the same bath water you've been using for a decade.

But they won't do that, because the games need to come out every year and you can't translate big changes to ten teams across the globe. AC has become too big a ship to move quickly and it's to the series' detriment.
 
I hope so.... because For Honor looked damn good and I don't want to see that one get hit with the downgrade stick. Or Ghost Recon (shame it wasn't playable at E3).

On another note, dat tagline lol

It IS strange how he's in every Ubisoft related thread.... defending Ubisoft. I mean... of all developers to have a fanboy that dedicated, why Ubisoft?
 
I'm not saying stop making open world games. Go for quality over quantitiy. They're trying to cram as much stuff into games as possible instead of focusing on making the content meaningful. It honestly feels more like a checklist than any sort of fun and that's not ok.

It's a tough balance though. AC games will outsell a title like Witcher 3. There's a mass market appeal to a game like AC that more core-focused titles like Witcher don't have. Maybe it is the checklist and people knowing exactly what they're going to get that makes these games appealing to the more casual/mass consumer.

I get why someone on a core gaming board would want this change to happen, but until the formula stops selling copies, not sure how or why they would change it.

Watch Dogs sold very well. Game sure wasn't for me (literally fell asleep playing it) but I get why they keep making these. When they stop selling then they'll change it up.

Until then, they are still putting out games like Rayman and Valiant Hearts and Child of Light and Far Cry, all of which are pretty outstanding games.
 
I might be officially (possibly permanently) burned out on "Ubi-games". The stucture of "unlock/climb this tower/checkpoint to further unlock repetitive/generic side content/filler material/fetch quests" has pretty much run it's course for me. I liked FC4, although I did suffer from "icon fatigue" at the end. I skipped Unity completely and have no plans to go back to that series. Watchdogs was ok, but the main character was boring as hell and I have no desire to play any sequel. You can't help but have dega-vu playing Ubi games with that structure these days.

I even find myself lamenting the influence when playing other games. I liked Dragon Age Inquisition quite a bit, but its another example of "over-iconification" of the map, which I partly attribute to the "Ubi-game" syndrome. Even Witcher had a fuck-ton of map icons, though you could find some really interesting side content when exploring those question marks. Just the sight of all the icons makes me a bit sad, however.

I completely agree. The only Ubisoft game that might change my mind is a new Splinter Cell game, and For Honor has some interesting battle mechanics.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Hang in there champ, you're doing great.
How passive aggressive.

I don't know that Assassin's Creed sells well because it's a repetitive template with varying degrees of successful (or unsuccessful) execution.

The template just makes these games easier, faster, and cheaper to make at significant cost to the end product. Spend some more time creating main missions, working on traversal, ensuring new mechanics aren't broken, etc. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but don't bathe the baby in the same bath water you've been using for a decade.

But they won't do that, because the games need to come out every year and you can't translate big changes to ten teams across the globe. AC has become too big a ship to move quickly and it's to the series' detriment.
You're being incredibly disingenuous here if you're saying that none of their series have gone through some major changes. To the bolded especially, ye they will, ACU was a drastically different game than AC3-R, which was quite different from AC2-Rev, in fact, one of the reasons that Syndicate has a different dev leading the game's development is so that Montreal can get more time for their next title.
 
I mean if you want to defend watch dogs then feel free but it does nothing exceptionally well and does many things poorly. The main character is a sociopath unwilling to accept that everything he's going through is completely of his own doing, that his selfish need to be some sort of hacker robber thug has cost his family dearly and somehow the game tries to make him a hero at the end. And that's not getting into the gameplay stuff where every mission ends with a chase.

the gameplay is outclassed in every metric one would consider for an open world action game. Bad mission design, bad driving, barely competent shooting, unappealing world to navigate through

Its just not good. And I'm glad to hear that ubisoft isn't as eager to show games in unplayable states anymore. It'll help in the end in regards to keeping expectations in line.
 

imBask

Banned
It's a tough balance though. AC games will outsell a title like Witcher 3. There's a mass market appeal to a game like AC that more core-focused titles like Witcher don't have.

I get why one would want this to happen, but until the formula stops selling copies, not sure how or why they would change it.

Watch Dogs sold very well. Game sure wasn't for me (literally fell asleep playing it) but I get why they keep making these. When they stop selling then they'll change it up.

Until then, they are still putting out games like Rayman and Valiant Hearts and Child of Light and Far Cry, all of which are pretty outstanding games.

they never stop selling though.... They understood that in the current era of gaming : marketing > making a good game. The casual crowd will eat up anything thrown at them if it's well presented!

it's okay I guess and it's just not my thing, I just ignore most of their games and move on with my life
 

StarVigil

Member
Might as well be a pre-written statement where they fill out the blanks at this point.
"We learned from the mistakes me made with ____________"
 
the gameplay is outclassed in every metric one would consider for an open world action game. Bad mission design, bad driving, barely competent shooting, unappealing world to navigate through

When playing Watch Dogs, I didn't think it was a TERRIBLE game. True, the narrative was god awful, but the gameplay was... alright.

It wasn't until finally playing GTA5 on PC that I realized how bad Watch Dogs really is. If I'm ever going to replay one of those games, it's going to be GTA5. Watch Dogs offers me nothing.
 
I don't know that Assassin's Creed sells well because it's a repetitive template with varying degrees of successful (or unsuccessful) execution.

The template just makes these games easier, faster, and cheaper to make at significant cost to the end product. Spend some more time creating main missions, working on traversal, ensuring new mechanics aren't broken, etc. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, but don't bathe the baby in the same bath water you've been using for a decade.

But they won't do that, because the games need to come out every year and you can't translate big changes to ten teams across the globe. AC has become too big a ship to move quickly and it's to the series' detriment.

AC is not a repetitive template, the series has mechanics that remain throughout the different games but the games themselves play differently. There's the tower to clear the map (completely optional), the collectibles (completely optional and in a lot of other games) side quest (completely optional and in a lot of other games) and the mythology behind the franchise (assassins and templar). Other then that every thing else change.
 

antitrop

Member
When playing Watch Dogs, I didn't think it was a TERRIBLE game. True, the narrative was god awful, but the gameplay was... alright.

It wasn't until finally playing GTA5 on PC that I realized how bad Watch Dogs really is. If I'm ever going to replay one of those games, it's going to be GTA5. Watch Dogs offers me nothing.

GTA V PC's mouse controls give it a huge edge in gunplay over the console versions.

I can absolutely see how someone who only played GTA V on consoles thinks that Watch_Dogs has considerably superior gunplay. GTA V was practically unplayable without autoaim on consoles. On PC, you can just play it like a normal FPS, if you want to.
 

Euron

Member
It's a tough balance though. AC games will outsell a title like Witcher 3. There's a mass market appeal to a game like AC that more core-focused titles like Witcher don't have. Maybe it is the checklist and people knowing exactly what they're going to get that makes these games appealing to the more casual/mass consumer.

I get why someone on a core gaming board would want this change to happen, but until the formula stops selling copies, not sure how or why they would change it.

Watch Dogs sold very well. Game sure wasn't for me (literally fell asleep playing it) but I get why they keep making these. When they stop selling then they'll change it up.

Until then, they are still putting out games like Rayman and Valiant Hearts and Child of Light and Far Cry, all of which are pretty outstanding games.
People love to buy the AC games because of the concept. You get to be a badass Assassin during a major historical time period. And the time periods covered are not usually ones commonly seen in games (Renaissance Italy, American Revolution, French Revolution, etc). But the games are quickly becoming repetitive and the time periods less interesting for the mass market. I doubt they'll ever see sales like AC3 again any time soon because they won't have a setting that matches it (despite the execution). Syndicate is going to be a big decline since 1) Unity disappointed and 2) Fallout 4 is releasing around the same time (Skyrim was huge and the hype for this game is very big all over the internet)

People should not consider Watch Dogs' sales at all. The game came out after the PS4 and Xbox One hadn't seen a new release in two months and faced almost zero competition. It was also the very first next gen game revealed and got many people hyped. Today it's commonly regarded as a disappointment. So Ubisoft cannot simply rely on the sales of the previous game for success. They have to make legitimate improvements and clearly let everyone know about them.
 

sjay1994

Member
Okay, so throw away everything on which they've built a successful business?

And do what to replace it?

Besides making a new Driver game, of course.

Literally Quality over Quantity.

Look at the Unity map

b14iwifo7xa2ll9h9kbm.jpg


Look at all this crap on the map. and its not even all of it. What is this content? Its mostly collectibles.

Ubisoft needs to find a new loop, and honestly I just say "look at witcher 3". That game genuinely feels like you are discovering content, rather than it all being plastered in such small proximity to one another.

These games need to find their own identity. Far Cry could have been a survival sim properly refining some of FC2's mechanics like what Hutchinson wanted with hypothermia, and air management.

Watch Dogs could have super doubled down on the simulation elements, made guns a frowned upon method of dealing with situations, and instead make hacking your primary method for solving problems. Instead the game is so insecure with what it wants to be, every situation can be solved by shooting. The reputation meter means nothing.

And Assassins creed... just make it a good stealth game. You are close to the people who work on splinter cell. How AC still has these horrible stealth mechanics blows my mind. And just make combat something like how souls does it. Where you and your opponents are evenly matched. You might be able to mow them down, but they can do the same to you. You are so stupidly overpowered in most of these games, but in unity they changed it so far that combat is slow and boring, and you are entering combat so much because their aren't enough stealth tools, and not to mention most of the time, they didn't even work.

There are a lot of things they could do, but they constantly stick to the "climb towers, fill world with stuff"

Make it less stuff, but make it higher quality. Make these games have unique mechanics for each of them rather than the same repeating game loop.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean if you want to defend watch dogs then feel free but it does nothing exceptionally well and does many things poorly. The main character is a sociopath unwilling to accept that everything he's going through is completely of his own doing, that his selfish need to be some sort of hacker robber thug has cost his family dearly and somehow the game tries to make him a hero at the end. And that's not getting into the gameplay stuff where every mission ends with a chase.

the gameplay is outclassed in every metric one would consider for an open world action game. Bad mission design, bad driving, barely competent shooting, unappealing world to navigate through

Its just not good. And I'm glad to hear that ubisoft isn't as eager to show games in unplayable states anymore. It'll help in the end in regards to keeping expectations in line.
It does shooting and stealth exceptionally well, As well as open ended mission design, in a time where GTAV/Saints Row had incredibly scripted main missions, it released with very open mission design where the player can do what they want. Wanna hack you way in without ever stepping into the base, good, wanna go in guns blazing shooting grenades out of midair, great, wanna get in and out both lethally and non lethally, even with just a pistol and some lures even better, you're allowed to do these things in the majority of missions in the game. This punctuated by an incredibly responsive character who gets over obstacles with relatively ease.
7kX.gif


and responds to player input quite fast with no floaty reticle,
nprbpihhejbpnrmqqvla.gif
 
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