maniac-kun
Member
They are talking about speeding it up but the current minister failed and stepped down.
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Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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They are talking about speeding it up but the current minister failed and stepped down.
Uhh what? The reason all this is happening is because the EU has no border controls brother. Free travel. That is the reason and nothing else. They dug their own grave.
jakonovski
Member
If you actually look at the chart a couple of pages ago, Switzerland is pulling their weight despite not being in the EU. So be careful what you wish for.
See, it pays off to read some other things than right wing sites from time to time. The refugees situation is not something that suddenly appeared now. It's at least one year old and it started by refugees coming in big numbers to Greece and Italy over the sea. Greece and Italy complained hundreds of times to EU that they can't handle the situation and EU was like "we don't care, it's your issue". Well, now it's not just their issue anymore. But don't let the facts bother you.
Sure. But they are not obliged to do it. They have freedom of choice. In the EU however, the EU decides for all EU countries. That needs to change.
I read left and right wing sites. Every country should have the right to close down their borders. Enough is enough and as said before; it is not our responsibility. Let the richest countries in the world (they are pretty close by as well) help out. It is their religion, their language, their culture, their people and thus their responsibility. However none of these countries (don't believe the Saudi propaganda please) do anything. This is the biggest problem of all.
This is again factually wrong. If that was the case maybe this crisis was already solved.
Read more, really.
jakonovski
Member
What the hell are you even talking about? Have you missed the border closings? Schengen was not "decided by the EU". Your precious national Dutch government went into it willingly and with the support of its population. It's only now that problems start that you suddenly start looking ways to bail out. EU is broken because the member countries are untrustworthy.
QuicheFontaine
Member
It seems like this crisis could push the EU in one of two directions:
i) move towards a more "federal" system where decisions over things like immigration quotas and foreign policy are decided by the European Parliament; or
ii) a dissolution of the political aspects of the EU, as each member state moves back towards its own sovereignty.
I'm guessing it's going to be ii).
The numbers are for April, May and June.
https://twitter.com/EU_Eurostat/status/644798399229861888
http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/19/eu-statisticians-claim-only-1-in-5-migrants-are-from-syria-5398412/
wtf... poor syrians actually fleeing from war.
Yeah, I think given recent events (not just the refugees crisis) there is no much space for trying to keep the status quo of being an Union without being an union. There will be a change one way or another.
travisbickle
Member
We're all part of the human race.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Finland is now expecting 200,000 immigrants. With family reunions, that will mean 600,000 new people in a country of 5 million.
ClosingADoor
Member
Nice thought, but it doesn't solve anything.
That's crazy and just impossible for the Finnish people to pay for even if everyone integrates perfectly.
Sure, but we can't shift all the responsibility onto those "first safe countries" because they also have their limits. Turkey and Jordan already took over 1 million refugees each; how many can they take? The same with Greece, Italy and other countries that are near the EU border.
However, I do have a problem with Syrian refugees aiming at Germany and Sweden while ignoring other countries on their way there. Poland accepted around 50 families (around 150 people) from Syria in July. Several days ago it appeared that around 12-13 families (40 people) quietly fled to Germany without noticing anyone. Sure, Poland isn't the best and richest country there is and currently there are some xenophobic tendencies there with all the Muslim fear mongering happening all the time (we accepted only Christian refugees, because apparently "fuck Muslims - they are all terrorists" :/). However, those people were given apartments, money and were taken care of and instead they said "fuck you, we're going to Germany". Some of them, after seeing what is happening in Germany - that it isn't all unicorn and rainbows - want to get back.
In situations like that it's really hard for me to defend refugees' actions.
EDIT: I misread the stats. Nothing to see here.
jakonovski
Member
Yeah because it's just sensationalist crap, by a MOP who gave that number off the cuff as an "exaggerated number we ought to be prepared for so there are no surprises". The family reunions number was the poster's own interpretation.
People are hyperventilating.
Well the EU aren't doing a good job at calming peoples fears, so you can't really blame people for worrying with no clear plan going on. Also doesn't help how it has coursed splits between neighbouring countries.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Do you think the number is bigger than reality? And that family reunions won't happen?
The current crisis shows no signs of settling down inthe next year, so there is no reason to expect the immigrant flow somehow would reduce. More people will escape. Considering the current rate of immigrants to Finland (800-1000/day) does not grow anymore, and remains at current levels, the 200K will be comfortably reached in a year. I'm not sure what is sensationalist about it? That it sounds like a lot?
maniac-kun
Member
No way this is possible to finance.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Finns are very positive towards immigration, at least in the larger cities. There have been pro-immigration demonstrations in Helsinki. Or so I hear, I live in London.
jakonovski
Member
You're making two giant assumptions without support. One, that the refugee influx will continue unabated for a long time and two, that there will be no policy actions based on how sustainable the situation is.
jakonovski
Member
Anti-racism demonstrations. Also, it's funny to call us very positive towards immigration when we historically take in relatively few immigrants per capita.
No we aren't, the loud minority is. There's no way we can afford that kind of burden, and yet the government is completely unwilling to do anything that would stem the tide. Germany and Sweden both are returning the iraqis (we don't have any such return agreements like they do with Iraq's government, so practically everyone gets to stay - even if they're proven criminals) so instead they're all now coming here; less than 3% of the people coming are from Syria.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Im surprised
What do truefinns say about this whole thing? Many seem to be coming into the country but what % is expected to get citizenship?
jakonovski
Member
True Finns are basically incapacitated by the fact that going into the government the party made a 180 on every single platform they had. The current inaction on the refugee issue is probably partly because the idiots in charge can't process the situation.
Alabamaman
Banned
Our home secretary Orpo is a damn fool and does nothing but observe the situation.
Someone should have the balls to close the border and say fuck you to the swedes transporting everyone here.
Someone should have the balls to close the border and say fuck you to the swedes transporting everyone here.
Exactly.
This is disgusting.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Where did you read this?
Herbspiceguy
Member
Don't homeless people your country have other ways of getting their food/support, which isn't meant for refugees?
Of course they do. This is a complete non-issue.
http://inserbia.info/today/2015/09/hungarian-proposition-for-migrant-crisis/
Hungary is really leading the pack in this crisis.
Hungary is really leading the pack in this crisis.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Where are there families? It should be 80% Children and Women. If they really are coming from warzones the men are much more suited to that then leaving everyone else behind.
quackamole
Member
No, apparently it is the women, children, and old peole who has to stay behind and suffer.
ClosingADoor
Member
Why is the alternative always immediately to let them die? That is such a lazy argument. Most of these people have passed through Turkey or Lebanon when fleeing Syria. They don't want to stay there, because living in those camps isn't a good life. Understandable, but the argument of "otherwise they die" is not a valid one. A lot have also paid human traffickers to get them into Europe.
It is also easier to get emotional responses out of people by showing pictures of kids. Yes, that is a sad situation and no children should go through it. But it is also a bit of selective reporting. We also don't see what happened before that moment.
Better response. Same idea.
Those welfare stats are not about Poland, but about Polish people in the Netherlands, so 69% of Somalians are on welfare, while only 2% of the Polish immigrants.
MisterFalcon
Member
From a Dutch newspaper interviewing the Syrians arriving.
Mohammed Saad and son Ali (10)
His wife and two daughters are still in Aleppo, he could not pay the journey for the whole family. Only Ali, the middle child of the family could come to the Netherlands. "Because he is a man"
Mohammed Saad and son Ali (10)
His wife and two daughters are still in Aleppo, he could not pay the journey for the whole family. Only Ali, the middle child of the family could come to the Netherlands. "Because he is a man"
jakonovski
Member
Just say it out that you don't care if those people die. Stop being a fucking coward and stand behind the consequences of your words, should they be implemented.
From a Dutch newspaper interviewing the Syrians arriving.
Mohammed Saad and son Ali (10)
His wife and two daughters are still in Aleppo, he could not pay the journey for the whole family. Only Ali, the middle child of the family could come to the Netherlands. "Because he is a man"
I don't know what to say about this. They travel all the way to Holland? They passed Greece, Italy, Belgium, France, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Poland. Why are they in Holland?
Miles Quaritch
Member
The families are coming behind? Young men are able to travel faster so of course the first wave will be young men who aren't burdened with family.
Whose to say they are staying behind and dying?
It's not a lazy answer. People bring up young men coming as some kind of dog whistle against the idea of them being refugees, when in fact the reason it's young men first is because they are more able to travel and won't be as burdened as families. The first wave is always the more able but people act like idiots and pretend it's only young men and it will only ever be young men,
Turning off their brains and parroting whatever garbage they've read in their go to right wing piece rag.
D
Deleted member 529084
Unconfirmed Member
"Credulous at best, your desire to believe in angels in the hearts of men.
Pull your head on out your hippy haze and give a listen.
Shouldn't have to say it all again.
The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive.
So it is. So it's always been.
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies.
Much better you than I"
Pull your head on out your hippy haze and give a listen.
Shouldn't have to say it all again.
The universe is hostile. so Impersonal. devour to survive.
So it is. So it's always been.
We all feed on tragedy
It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously I live while the whole world dies.
Much better you than I"
First of all, Who you talking to?
Where should they all go? Where should the millions (tens of, even) following them in the upcoming years go?
Easy. Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc. Enough room, same religion, same culture and language. The reason everything is now going to shit is because these countries do absolutely nothing. This is not Europe's responsibility.
jakonovski
Member
It was on a "if the shoe fits" principle.
I don't have the answers. But I do know that as long as we (EU) can, we should make sure that those fleeing from actual persecution have a safe haven, and the burden should be evenly spread.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Oh no.
It's the Islamic invasion. Hide yo' kids and hide yo' wives, they be forcing everyone to follow Sharia out here...
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