Sammy Samusu
Member
I thought this would be about The Great Ace Attorney.
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Project Phoenix Ain't Looking Too Good
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
- Start date
They say
And then they say
Where's the programmer budget here? "3.5% Unity" doesn't really convey "budget for programming a large scale RPG/RTS for at least a couple of years".
They have FAR too many artists and musicians on the project, and far too big a scope to only have one programmer. Also, programmers are the first thing they needed to have invested in, because you need a game first to put the assets in to.
This project gave me warning signs from the get go because they didn't appear to have any decent concepts for how the game actually plays. That's the first thing I look for on a Kickstarter page - I don't mind if it's unfinished art, if it's unplayable, at the very least have a couple of concept images showing the HUD, possible actions, at least something that resembles what the final game could look like. It sounded like they had some grand scheme, got a whole pile of artists and designers and musicians on board, and just hoped it'd fall into place without getting too far into the nitty gritty.
Even if they get a programmer, the rest of the team is probably going to have to sit on their hands for months before they can contribute.. I hope they have a job to fall back on in the mean time because this will get very expensive
I hope they manage to pull this off, somehow, though. It's sad whenever these plans go awry.
Hinging on a single programmer, while making 10 times the KS goal indeed sounds awkward by any standard. That said that bar not having any Programming budget might have been because they seem to have a deal where that single programmer wasn't getting paid, but would receive royalties per game sold. Not to say that it was a bad idea to have one programmer with no fall back.
Sumio Mondo
Member
At least Mighty No. 9 will probably release. It'll disappoint, but I get the impression this project would also disappoint considering how much people were banking on this.
Mashin Haters
Member
he decided to work on Ori and the Blind Forest
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
I just wondered if you even read my post. It's a matter of principle honest failure > sleazeball mediocrity.
It's not that Comcept made one misstep regarding their communication , it's them doing the same shit over and over and over and over again and I do not care if it's by malice or incompetence.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Uh, yeah, I did. Your post still makes no sense to me. I think most reasonable people would like to get their game they funded over a game that won't.
Holundrian
Unconfirmed Member
Well in that case I'm sorry that you lack the empathy to understand why I would value honesty over results.
Not everything in life is about the bottom line.
Have a good day sir.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Your point boils down to: "I'd rather not get games than actually get games". Yeah, cool beans.
Remembrance
Member
Even if they get a programmer, the rest of the team is probably going to have to sit on their hands for months before they can contribute.. I hope they have a job to fall back on in the mean time because this will get very expensive
The arrangement with this project from the start was that just about everyone on the team has a day job. They would all be working on this game in their spare time.
That means nobody will go broke and they don't have to dip into the funds unnecessarily... But I guess it also explains how you can easily end up with much of the team not doing anything for months.
Sounds like the project is run by people who have no appreciation for programming and think (thought?) they can just bring in any guy to implement their brilliant ideas. Having ideas is the hard part, right? Specfinically calling out "lore" but not programming in the original budget is hilarious.
Maybe the "Unity" item is intended to cover the cost of actually coding the game? If they're really expecting to bring in a good programmer for $35k (less licensing costs, and with no benefits), this project is never going anywhere. Maybe they can find some college kid who doesn't know any better; just keep them away from the job fair.
Gross situation all around. I feel bad for anyone who backed this.
Maybe the "Unity" item is intended to cover the cost of actually coding the game? If they're really expecting to bring in a good programmer for $35k (less licensing costs, and with no benefits), this project is never going anywhere. Maybe they can find some college kid who doesn't know any better; just keep them away from the job fair.
Gross situation all around. I feel bad for anyone who backed this.
I'm pretty happy that I avoided this mess (doesn't make up for Untold Story, but at least it's not a double whammy). The project gave me really bad vibes from day one. Lots of pretentiousness and empty promises.
It kind of fell apart like a 15 year old's RPG Maker game. Too many ideas, not enough skill.
It kind of fell apart like a 15 year old's RPG Maker game. Too many ideas, not enough skill.
A programmer is like the backbone of game making, wtf!!. I dont understand how you can go forward with developing/kickstarting a game without one committed. And I mean committed as in your paying them and have a contract or there part of the main dev team. Not just some random verbal argreement of them saying they'll definitely(probably) help.
What I'm saying is, the people behind the Kickstarter should know programming, that's fricking stupid, a major red flag.
What I'm saying is, the people behind the Kickstarter should know programming, that's fricking stupid, a major red flag.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Remembrance
Member
The latest update says that the original programmer was supposed to be paid on a royalty basis, and the new programmer will be paid out of non-Kickstarter funds. So "Unity" is not for the programmer's salary in either case, but I'm not sure what it actually covers.
Also, the game is not using Unity anymore. An earlier update said they'd started transitioning to UE4 in January.
The real question is whether the game will actually exist.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Haunted
Member
opticalmace
Member
Yikes, horribly managed.
Admiral Woofington
Member
jRPGs and kickstarter don't mix.
Freaking Soul Saga is nowhere near done either. He has been releasing this demo he updates ala FFXV.
Freaking Soul Saga is nowhere near done either. He has been releasing this demo he updates ala FFXV.
witchedwiz
Member
This..
Over and over..
I'm not a prodigy, but i can fancy a (really) solid hire in it for enterprise.. And with 5 years of seniority and leading 4 different projects for eu agencies, i certainly earn wayyyy more than that, really way more....
Christ, 35k...
Take out tax, what is that, pocket money?
Royalties then... So the guy is working for pennies and then maybe some serious money (depending on sales, depending on royalties, etc)..
Yet this is not volounteering just as they say, and i agree: that is something i do for Free in my spare time, not in my working time...
Now some estimation..
Assuming they need to do something from scratch..
6-7 months full time involvement..
6k dollar pre-tax per month..
That is the wage of a generic programmer (not a specialized programmer) in the early of his career, without any particular redeeming quality..
Now.. Let's assume that they have just ONE programmer in their plan (suicidal.....) else i would assume that they would have at least started something at the very least...
This guy will have more or less
4 months to do the whole work
2 months polish
1 month incremental revisions split among the 4 months phase
Either i'm wildly overestimating the involvement on the lead programmer (sole programmer would be more fitting) in a videogame or they are playing a very dangerous game there...
Who the hell is taking the budget's decisions there?
And to think i backed them...
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
We're late (supposed to come out Dec 2014), but we're getting pretty close to being done. Good reception from people who have played our demo as well.
I don't see one programmer making a high quality 3D RPG from scratch in half a year.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Unity is that much of an enigma to them that they needed to bank the project on one person and can't find a replacement or two? Yikes is right.
element
Member
That is just poor planning on their end.
I'd compare this to actors and directors wanting to make a movie but forgetting to find a cameraman and a CAMERA.
If programming isn't the #1 staffing priority and locked down, then seriously look just burning your money.
Anytime you consider a Kickstarter use the man month cost to see if their numbers even add up. Typical gaming man month is around $11k per month per person, going indie you can probably knock that down to $7k per month per person.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
The worst project Ive backed on KS. Embarrassing stuff.
Admiral Woofington
Member
everybody knew his original release date was crazy, and since then he hasn't given one until he's sure he can do it. But man, maybe hiring somebody to help with the programming would've been a good idea. My biggest gripe with the game is how many redesigns the art style has gone through to the point I don't really like what the leads look like now or how old they are. They went from like teenage looking kids to looking like pre-teens. I'm not going to pretend it's the worst thing ever but it's highly disappointing as I backed the game due to the original idea. And the unlockable skins aren't much better.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Bwahahahaha oh god what the flying fuck is that abomination
Leafhopper
Banned
What the hell was that?
OverdriveOtaku
Member
Yet another Kickstarter I regret backing. It really is a gamble.
Savior of JRPG
what are you talking about, that looks like a very early version of a jrpg. and I love jrps. here is one of my favorite ones
The3DGameArtist
Member
This this and other failed game-development projects,it's worth noting that making video games is hard, really hard and things can fail even when everybody is putting in their 100%.
This goes from the smallest indie companies to the giants of game development. Usually it's pretty bad when the Art is done before all the design, game mechanics and programming is even in the game. Then you've really started in the wrong end of the spectrum.
You need a game first, art last.
This goes from the smallest indie companies to the giants of game development. Usually it's pretty bad when the Art is done before all the design, game mechanics and programming is even in the game. Then you've really started in the wrong end of the spectrum.
You need a game first, art last.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
They've kinda been the opposite of transparent. Infrequent updates, almost all of which are apologizing; what feel to me like material misrepresentations of their ability to deliver; lack of accountability about their other Kickstarter project; staff turnover with no update... Eventually issuing a mea culpa when it's obvious how fucked you are is not transparent
CaviarMeths
Member
Well, that explains what they've been doing for the last year. All of those artists spent the year watching "Beginner's Guide to Making Games in Unity" tutorials.
But yeah, looks like an oldschool Warcraft game with chibi sprites. Not that it would be such a bad thing if done right. Warcraft was dope and chibi art can be endearing. But this looks very... stiff, sterile, lifeless, etc. And the dialogue is awful. It's like every character is a robot.
The UI literally looks like it was designed in a Microsoft Word knock-off that didn't have the licenses for popular fonts.
I already wrote it off as dead. Maybe they'll still deliver something in a year or two, but i doubt it. What a shitshow.
Yup, had paypal support.
Yup, had paypal support.
Its Shenmue 3 that is going to be the real s**t storm. Campaign was run poorly and not enough people were looking at exactly what is drowning this mess of a project...the programming team. The software group had some experience building cell phone apps (and a vita game that tanked long before) and even those people were pretty much gone and they were trying to hire. Nobody asked why the Shenmue guy had not have a job for all those years. His last attempt at Shenmue on one failed quick. I hope it comes together but if it doesn't..yikes, gaf and redit will need a fire hose to cool things down.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Is amazing that they wanted to make a game without securing the programmers first
Did everyone just ignore this part of the pitch?
I can understand the confusion though, considering how the kickstarter kept talking about JRPGs for some reason.
Well that plus it's billed at the top of the campaign page as:
【Project Phoenix】 Japan's indie RPG feat. AAA talent!
Boy am I glad I didn't back this one.
texhnolyze
Banned
That looks like a mobile game.
Did they made it without the programmer? It's only acceptable for mobile game..