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[FlutterPuffs]

You didn't miss anything, the problem is that tpc put themselves in the bad light in the first place, and their reaction to 'hey we're getting some heat for this' is to do the only thing that could possibly make them look like bigger assholes. Something that was within their right, but absolutely out of touch with the reality of the situation (They're not going to recoup more than they were going to with the settlement this way, they're just going to lose money AND lose face).

It's a tough choice when going easy can cause precedence and making it harder for them to uphold their IP rights in the future.

To be honest, TPC will most probably go back to a settlement but with larger caveats and I'm sorry, I can understand people empathising with him, I do too.

Still the two errors that he did just made me facepalm hard. He should have talk it through with a lawyer before going with crowdfunding. (And if he did that's a pretty shitty lawyer)

 

[Zomba13]

WTF at this. You seriously think the only events people can organize if they like games are tournaments?

You are projecting fucking hardcore man.

Plus they could just as easily go after you for a tournament if you used images of their IP or had an entry fee to cover the venue costs etc.

 

[Kamina777]

It's a tough choice when going easy can cause precedence and making it harder for them to uphold their IP rights in the future.

To be honest, TPC will most probably go back to a settlement but with larger caveats and I'm sorry, I can understand people empathising with him, I do too.

Still the two errors that he did just made me facepalm hard. He should have talk it through with a lawyer before going with crowdfunding. (And if he did that's a pretty shitty lawyer)

What magic law or fine print that i've never heard of says crowd funding is a breach of a settlement of any type?

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's a tough choice when going easy can cause precedence and making it harder for them to uphold their IP rights in the future.

To be honest, TPC will most probably go back to a settlement but with larger caveats and I'm sorry, I can understand people empathising with him, I do too.

Still the two errors that he did just made me facepalm hard. He should have talk it through with a lawyer before going with crowdfunding. (And if he did that's a pretty shitty lawyer)

Going easy is not going to make Pokémon genericized. Stop spreading this silly myth. Do you really think that their IPs are less protected if they merely send a C&D?

 

[FlutterPuffs]

What magic law or fine print that i've never heard of says crowd funding is a breach of a settlement of any type?

That's not what I meant. Crowdfunding is basically publicising the lawsuit. Publicising a lawsuit is not a smart thing to do.

 

[iapetus]

Given all your grandstanding in this thread, I'm imagining you as a person who breaks the rules and then blames others for not being nice to you when you're punished...

Personal attacks like this are against the ToS. As a junior member, one infraction gets you a permanent ban.

I could ban you from NeoGAF for life right now. It's within the scope of the rules. You, presumably, wouldn't have a problem with it, as you broke the letter of the law, and you should have known better. But if I did, in this context, I'd be being a dick. There are other avenues open to me. I can ignore it as a low level insult in a heated thread. I can warn you. Just because I can hit you with the hardest punishment available doesn't mean I should.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Going easy is not going to make Pokémon genericized. Stop spreading this silly myth. Do you really think that their IPs are less protected if they merely send a C&D?

Precedence is a different matter honey. I didn't mean anything in what you just typed. No one is saying that.

 

[pahamrick]

That's not what I meant. Crowdfunding is basically publicising the lawsuit. Publicising a lawsuit is not a smart thing to do.

Regardless of it not being smart, unless he specifically signed an NDA which forbade him from speaking about it there wasn't technically anything wrong with what he did. Not smart, sure -- but not wrong, either.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Precedence is a different matter honey. I didn't mean anything in what you just typed. No one is saying that.

Good point - this will surely make people stop doing something that probably happens all over the world JUST with this IP.

It's a frivolous lawsuit brought by a big corporation against a guy. A lawsuit with a settlement that, arbitrarily, lacked any payment plan and forced him into a tough position. Perhaps the lawyers were too incompetent to be able to anticipate that limiting a small-business owner in terms of how they can pay the settlement off, in a generation where a person can set up a crowdfunding page in minutes, might lead to trouble?

Also, companies that "set examples" need to be buried, as examples. The examples are typically not the most egregious of offenders, yet they can expect to be treated as if they were.

 

[Firestorm]

Going easy is not going to make Pokémon genericized. Stop spreading this silly myth. Do you really think that their IPs are less protected if they merely send a C&D?

One of the reasons I'm confused with this story saying they never sent a C&D is that my friend who sold t-shirts for a site we used to both work on got a C&D for having a stylized Koffing on it. They didn't straight up call him into court. It was a C&D, he stopped, and heard nothing from them again.

TPCi's lawyers are cray cray but this seems too cray even for them.

 

[beril]

Ok... I have no idea what quoting my avatar is supposed to imply...

 

[pahamrick]

Ok... I have no idea what quoting my avatar is supposed to imply...

I would assume, going by the edit, that it's implying an eye roll at your quoted comment.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Regardless of it not being smart, unless he specifically signed an NDA which forbade him from speaking about it there wasn't technically anything wrong with what he did. Not smart, sure -- but not wrong, either.

You're right, problem is it makes sense for the legal team to pull back out of the settlement out of this too. No papers are stopping them from doing that.

Anyway I do agree its harsh, but I'm not too surprised this is happening either. I'm just gonna bow out of this thread since it's getting pretty heated up.

I hope this gets gets settled quickly and painlessly, I think it will. Still what this guy did with the infringement, crowdfunding and refusing to get a lawyer is not the smartest thing you should do.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

There seems to ge a lot of guesses, assumptions and simple black & white thinking in this thread. Bad big company or someone who protects its brand, helpless saint individual or a extremely dumb, annoying and parasitical person...

The truth is probably in between.

 

[xJavonta]

TPC is fucking evil. And the TPC sympathizers are just as awful.

 

[JoeM86]

Well yes, the fandom was in a total uproar and there was a bunch of nonsense..but that always happens lol.

I was more referring to the fact that after the initial pull of Bank, we weren't told about anything that was happening for weeks...maybe months? It was so long ago, but it was definitely too long of a time to just be completely silent. And of course I recognize that it was important to pull the app, and important to get it fixed. But the US/other region audiences were completely left in the dark about what was getting fixed, given an estimate on when we might see it, or really any details whatsoever. I'm sure there's plenty of reasoning why they wouldn't talk about it (worrying about if they can actually meet the estimate being one) but even a simple tweet saying "hey, we're working on bank, it'll be coming soon!" would have been acceptable.

Contextually what I'm referring to here is that by not talking about it, they drew a whole lot of criticism and the fandom imploding upon itself. Kind of similar here where they're going to be drawing a bunch of criticism and the fandom (or just GAF in general lol) is imploding upon the news.

If they had information, they'd have given it. You do realise that wasn't something that they wanted, the whole thing was slapdash. They had to fix it and rush the fix, then test it. The US didn't get a date once Japan got it again because they didn't want to set a date and then have to delay it if something went wrong. That's why we didn't "hear" anything, not because of them being stupid, but because of them not wanting to risk broken promises. They did send a couple of tweets saying about Bank, but if they did more it would have been taunting, and provide no further information.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

It's a tough choice when going easy can cause precedence and making it harder for them to uphold their IP rights in the future.

To be honest, TPC will most probably go back to a settlement but with larger caveats and I'm sorry, I can understand people empathising with him, I do too.

Still the two errors that he did just made me facepalm hard. He should have talk it through with a lawyer before going with crowdfunding. (And if he did that's a pretty shitty lawyer)

I'm sorry, but this is just false. They don't have to sue to prove they are protecting their IP, just send a C&D. Besides, there is tons of precedent for minor IP/Copyright infringement for products. You don't risk losing a trademark or copyright of a product because somebody puts official images on a poster and asks for a cover charge for a party (or the plethora of other smaller offenses).

I don't know why so many people think big corporations need to sue every instance of copyright infringement no matter how minor or else they legitimately risk losing their property. Like, trademark/copyright laws are confusing and in many ways antiquated, but unlike many laws there is actual common sense judgement when it comes to disputes.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Personal attacks like this are against the ToS. As a junior member, one infraction gets you a permanent ban.

I could ban you from NeoGAF for life right now. It's within the scope of the rules. You, presumably, wouldn't have a problem with it, as you broke the letter of the law, and you should have known better. But if I did, in this context, I'd be being a dick. There are other avenues open to me. I can ignore it as a low level insult in a heated thread. I can warn you. Just because I can hit you with the hardest punishment available doesn't mean I should.

This is awesome, mod of the month award worthy.


Is there such a thing on gaf?

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Personal attacks like this are against the ToS. As a junior member, one infraction gets you a permanent ban.

I could ban you from NeoGAF for life right now. It's within the scope of the rules. You, presumably, wouldn't have a problem with it, as you broke the letter of the law, and you should have known better. But if I did, in this context, I'd be being a dick. There are other avenues open to me. I can ignore it as a low level insult in a heated thread. I can warn you. Just because I can hit you with the hardest punishment available doesn't mean I should.

Also, if you don't consistently use your abilities as a mod, wouldn't that discredit you and force you to be demoded?

 

[vinnygambini]

One of the reasons I'm confused with this story saying they never sent a C&D is that my friend who sold t-shirts for a site we used to both work on got a C&D for having a stylized Koffing on it. They didn't straight up call him into court. It was a C&D, he stopped, and heard nothing from them again.

TPCi's lawyers are cray cray but this seems too cray even for them.

Agreed. They don't mention in the lawsuit if a C&D was sent either but usually TPC does so. I'm as perplexed as you.

This is cray even for TPC standards.

 

[TheYanger]

Precedence is a different matter honey. I didn't mean anything in what you just typed. No one is saying that.

It would in NO world set any kind of precedent if they didn't sue this guy. It's a random dude throwing a party that had a picture on the flyer. That shit happens a thousand times without them knowing about it for every one guy they decide to get a stick up their ass about.

There is a large difference between this and someone making Pokemun and using all of their assets and selling it.

 

[ss-hikaru]

I read on an Anime News Network article covering this that TPC voluntarily dismissed their case against the second guy. Wonder why he got off easy compared to his friend.

The description on the Go Fund Me page does paint TPC in a bad light, I bet he regrets not writing it in a more neutral tone Sure TPC are being heavy handed but it's not a good idea to raise the ire of the corporation that is suing you...especially when they are well within their legal rights and are holding the upper hand in the negotiations. Dude has made a fair few mistakes throughout this whole saga but I hope things will work out for him in the end.

 

[squadr0n]

Disney was known for doing the exact same thing when I was growing up. My school had to remove artwork from their walls before I got there too.

 

[TheYanger]

Disney was known for doing the exact same thing when I was growing up. My school had to remove artwork from their walls before I got there too.

This is what C&Ds accomplish though, not full blown litigation.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Disney was known for doing the exact same thing when I was growing up. My school had to remove artwork from their walls before I got there too.

but they didn't sue your school after it complied did they?

 

[Starwolf_UK]

The discussion of this thread would really benefit from the legal documents in question being in the OP...I link some below

Given that the event did not even happen, how will TPC claim it was damaged? I'm guessing it will be all about Pikachu and Snivy images on a poster and a facebook page? How much did that really cost them? I'm pretty sure the entire cost to TPC is the money they paid lawyers to sue the guy.

The copyrighted images were used infringing on the exclusive rights TPC have to them. That is entirely what the original case is about:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/276573606/Pokemon-Lawsuit
Note that in the final judgement (I can't get direct scribed links to work here but the documents are embedded in this page) the judge effectively issued a cease and desist* to the defendants (destroy all copies, delete all posts, don't do any more of this stuff or help anyone else with this stuff) and said TPCi could get their legal costs back but no other damages were rewarded to TPCi.

*-Which like many people wonder if that was the result why spend $5400 going to court which you then settle for $4000 (in other words losing $1400) but decide to rescind because bad PR getting yourself the bad PR you claim the settlement gave you in the first place.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The discussion of this thread would really benefit from the legal documents in question being in the OP...I link some below


The copyrighted images were used infringing on the exclusive rights TPC have to them. That is entirely what the original case is about:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/276573606/Pokemon-Lawsuit
Note that in the final judgement (I can't get direct scribed links to work here but the documents are embedded in this page) the judge effectively issued a cease and desist* to the defendants (destroy all copies, delete all posts, don't do any more of this stuff or help anyone else with this stuff) and said TPCi could get their legal costs back but no other damages were rewarded to TPCi.

*-Which like many people wonder if that was the result why spend $5400 going to court which you then settle for $4000 (in other words losing $1400) but decide to rescind because bad PR getting yourself the bad PR you claim the settlement gave you in the first place.

The final judgement in that page is actually just a draft that the plaintiff sent to the defendant. It is referred to in the letter that is listed right above that final judgment document. It is not uncommon for the parties to give the court a proposed final judgment document for them to sign or use as a basis for the actual final judgment.

I already pointed this out to someone else but I guess it is not that obvious and you have to be knowledgeable in these sort of practices.

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

WTF at this. You seriously think the only events people can organize if they like games are tournaments?

You are projecting fucking hardcore man.

Do you relize I was speaking about my personal point of wiew do you?
Also, my point isn't about what they can do. People could do everything their precious little hearts tell them to do.
My point It's about the fact that imho videogame related events that don't involve actual playing videogames are bullshit.

I cant't help but feel sick when someone try to use videogames to be social and impress people. I can't change that about myself.

 

[Pif]

If they spent their time learning how to properly code a pokémon game, now that would be shocking.

 

[Nesther]

If they spent their time learning how to properly code a pokémon game, now that would be shocking.

But that's Gamefreak's job, not TPC's.

 

[JoeM86]

If they spent their time learning how to properly code a pokémon game, now that would be shocking.

Game Freak know how to properly code a Pokémon game. Also, The Pokémon Company International is not Game Freak. It's a regional division of The Pokémon Company that is separate to the overall company, while combined with it, like Nintendo of America is to overall Nintendo.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Do you relize I was speaking about my personal point of wiew do you?
Also, my point isn't about what they can do. People could do everything their precious little hearts tell them to do.
My point It's about the fact that imho videogame related events that don't involve actual playing videogames are bullshit.

I cant't help but feel sick when someone try to use videogames to be social and impress people. I can't change that about myself.

This event has people playing video games. You may not be able to change yourself from just assuming that anyone who would ever *gasp* go to a bar, might actually play games for more than a bizarre notion that they'll make you popular with the lehdez, but could you change that part of you that seemingly won't research the topic of discussion?

 

[Lebon14]

The discussion of this thread would really benefit from the legal documents in question being in the OP...I link some below

It's been added.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I read on an Anime News Network article covering this that TPC voluntarily dismissed their case against the second guy. Wonder why he got off easy compared to his friend.

The description on the Go Fund Me page does paint TPC in a bad light, I bet he regrets not writing it in a more neutral tone Sure TPC are being heavy handed but it's not a good idea to raise the ire of the corporation that is suing you...especially when they are well within their legal rights and are holding the upper hand in the negotiations. Dude has made a fair few mistakes throughout this whole saga but I hope things will work out for him in the end.

I am quite curious if they would have not withdrawn the settlement if he just made a Go Fund Me saying he needed $4000 for a settlement. I can kind of see them pulling it since he was a bit passive aggressive with them.

 

[Kamina777]

Ok... I have no idea what quoting my avatar is supposed to imply...

Read the fine print.

I would assume, going by the edit, that it's implying an eye roll at your quoted comment.

You are indeed correct.

 

[tim.mbp]

This guy got some bad advise in not hiring a lawyer. The legal system can be pretty hard to navigate for a layperson.

 

[Kamina777]

This guy got some bad advise in not hiring a lawyer. The legal system can be pretty hard to navigate for a layperson.

This is sad but true, regardless of the charge.

 

[Mael]

If all they wanted was their costs recouped they would've just taken the money he was raising via gofundme. Just puttin it out there.

Obviously him airing his laundry in the press and basically inviting the media into the case means that the guy isn't being level, so clearly TPCi's lawyers don't want to be lenient with a guy who settle in bad faith.
It's their right, they were doing him a favor with the settlement by smearing the other party and generating bad PR for the company the dude doesn't warrant the TPCi's leniency.

If the articles talking about it were just talking about the settlement with the gofundme and that's it, it could probably be argued that he doesn't really want to smear them.
The guy is actually forwarding the whole case to the press.
And because of that soon he's going to be able to forward the whole lawsuit to the press instead of just the settlement.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

It's their right, they were doing him a favor with the settlement by smearing the other party and generating bad PR for the company the dude doesn't warrant the TPCi's leniency.

Yes, how very kind of the Pokemon Company to completely dick over one of their fans.

A favor. God that's hilarious.

 

[Mael]

Yes, how very kind of the Pokemon Company to completely dick over one of their fans.

A favor. God that's hilarious.

Considering they're not asking for the full lawyer's fee and they're not asking for punitive damage.
Yes they are doing him a favor.
They could have gone full Disney on the guy.
If you can't see how much worse this case could be for the guy,
you have no idea how dickish and petty IP laws can be.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Considering they're not asking for the full lawyer's fee and they're not asking for punitive damage.
Yes they are doing him a favor.
They could have gone full Disney on the guy.

Doing a slightly less shitty thing than a more shitty thing doesn't warrant it being a "favor.'

It's like saying a mugger did me a favor my only taking my wallet instead of shooting me. What a nice fellow!

 

[Mael]

Doing a slightly less shitty thing than a more shitty thing doesn't warrant it being a "favor.'

It's like saying a mugger did me a favor my only taking my wallet instead of shooting me. What a nice fellow!

Your analogy would work if we were talking about an illegal behavior.
It's a favor in the same way that the IRS reducing your late fee payment is a favor.
Bad analogies should stay with cars examples.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Your analogy would work if we were talking about an illegal behavior.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it any less dickish. Legal ramifications don't always line up with morality.

 

[Netherscourge]

Was GOING TO throw a party?

Or DID throw a party?

How can you be sued for not doing something?

 

[udivision]

Was GOING TO throw a party?

Or DID throw a party?

How can you be sued for not doing something?

He used Pokemon IP to promote it. That itself is a crime.

 

[Mael]

Just because something is legal doesn't make it any less dickish. Legal ramifications don't always line up with morality.

Dealing with any kind of lawyery stuff is expensive.
He was going to pay for something considering he was sued and clearly did something wrong.
Considering the information we have, he was coming out ahead with the fine the settlement was giving.
TPCi is not a saint, they should have found another course of action (or not we don't have their side of the story because they're not dumbasses).
the guy is in this worse situation now because he clearly acted like an idiot.
He's morally and legally in the wrong.
It's like fighting a parking ticket, sure it was the middle of the night, there was no traffic, no one was there and anyone could cross the street by walking 25 feet from that spot
but your car was still parked in a wrong spot and you got to pay for it.
Going to the press for that isn't going to do you any favor.
(See? a car analogy that's not perfect but better than big bully TPC is a thief trying to steal a poor honest man's livelihood who just wanted to celebrate how big of a fan he was)

Was GOING TO throw a party?

Or DID throw a party?

How can you be sued for not doing something?

He probably forgot to notify them that he did anything.
He then acted like a dumbass so that's probably why they're ridding his butt on coals.

He used Pokemon IP to promote it. That itself is a crime.

That's illegal but probably not as serious as a crime though.

 

[fernoca]

Was GOING TO throw a party?

Or DID throw a party?

How can you be sued for not doing something?

-Guy was going to throw a party after PAX (for the 5th consecutive year) in late August.
-Guy advertised said party across multiple sites using official artwork in posters and Facebook posts, while charging a fee and advertising drinks.
-There was a $2 entry fee to cover the costs of the DJ and other expenses; $500 were raised (with around $400 going to the DJ).
-TPC jumped on him and a few more people, because they own said images (along Pokémon Works) and the unauthorized use also damaged their brand (maybe the advertised Pokémon-themed drinks?).
-Facebook posts were removed, posters taken out, some links deleted,party was cancelled.
-Guy went to the media, about how he thought it was scare tactics at first, but ended being serious when received a noticed the day before the party, and resulted in the cancellation.
-Nearly every article also displays said posters and images.
-Judge ruled against TPC receiving compensation for "damages", but ruled in favor of this guy paying for the lawyers representing TPC, etc. (which is usually normal and expected when you win a case).
-The expenses came at $5,500 , but both sides settled for $4,000.
-Guy asked for a payment plan, but was only given 45 days (which is in the average time).
-Guy went to the media again, about how TPC is against him, and not having a way to pay that in 45 days.
-Guy creates a GoFundMe to raise the money, as he said he had no other ways to get money. All while TPC is through PR hell, as a result of the previous two interviews the guy did.
-Settlements in many cases are a NDA, which the guy broke by talking (again) about the case.
-TPC/lawyers cancels the settlement (for obvious reason), guy went to the media (again) to talk about it. Mentioned lawyers negotiating a deal.
-Nothing else since.

All this, while 2 other people involved remaining silent with one of the being cleared of everything.

It was a dick move by TPC, though not surprising and on their rights. But the guy was either badly advised or not advised at all, while panicking and ended in this. You don't talk about on going cases with the media. Is why people involved always remain silent or only say cliché things like "justice will prevail"; while a lawyer or a PR agent says the usual "no comments, everything in due time".


EDIT:
There's the assumption that TPC sent a $4k receipt to the guy out of nowhere, which wasn't the case. The $4k were the result of TPC losing the case that claimed damages, but being allowed $5k to cover the expenses of the lawyers; then agreeing a lowered amount. It wasn't like "pay me $4k because you used Pikachu and Snivy"..or something like that.

 

[Meffer]

So the dude was breaking NDA? What an idiot.

 

[Recall]

I like parties.

I like themed parties.

Don't sue me.

 

[zroid]

what the fuck?