That weekend is yea. It usually accounts for more than half of the sales for the entire month over the course of those 3 days.
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NPD Sales Results for October 2015 [Up1: Xbox #1]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
That weekend is yea. It usually accounts for more than half of the sales for the entire month over the course of those 3 days.
Welfare
Member
What? Did something happen or is this in reference to this thread?
CosmicQueso
Member
I decided to pipe up in another, non-NPD sales thread.
Why would I do that. I should not have done that. I'm not going to do that again.
There be dragons out there.
Why would I do that. I should not have done that. I'm not going to do that again.
There be dragons out there.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Hehe i could've told you that cosmic. You missed most of the good stuff tho
Boombloxer
Member
Hey now, you threw red meat to lions. You saw logic, they tasted salt.
People even complaining to Nirolak about the thread.
People saying GS is lying on investment calls.
People saying why would MS share data with the largest game retailer.
Comedy gold.
People even complaining to Nirolak about the thread.
People saying GS is lying on investment calls.
People saying why would MS share data with the largest game retailer.
Comedy gold.
You and me both. Damn that was ugly.
I haven't had a chance to catch up in here, but if anyone has asked me how well my store seems to have fared with Battlefront relative to other metrics, I'd have to say pretty well indeed. Our stock is moving nicely. People are enthusiastic. Our midnight was strong. I was chatting with a coworker about what the CEO said today and she was surprised. I wasn't, but she definitely was.
And yeah, it'll keep doing well here throughout December.
You tried. It was a valiant effort.
I hereby nominate you for the title of Patron Saint of Sales for your unending patience and self restraint in the face of idiocy.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Yeah. And furthermore, if they're going to exit the console hardware business why would they stay in the games business at all? Maintaining a games business just to produce a handful of flagship titles in the hopes that that will keep people from switching to OS X and Linux seems a bit silly. Microsoft is in the games business because they want to be in the hardware business, they're not in the hardware business because they want to be in the games business.
slavesnyder
Member
But if the hardware makes no profit after 3 generations it might go the way of the Zune.Imru al-Qays;186585644 said:
They seem to change priorities and strategy. I don't say it's the right choice.
Creating exclusive flagship titles to get people into locked systems is exactly what Netflix, Amazon are doing with TV series.
And it seems that Amazon bought gaming studios for the same purpose. Those will not create games for PC, Xbox or Playstation...
Imagine Steam starting a subscription-based prime service with Half Life 3 exclusivity.
Don't even joke about that. Someone will take you seriously. See Benny's post in the digital split thread.
slavesnyder
Member
Could you link this, I want a guide through the minefield, please.
Benny posted
As a joke. Which then resulted in the following people quoting him as if he was being serious.
This continued for pages. It would've been funny if it wasn't so depressingly predictable.
slavesnyder
Member
No, you can play your Xbox (at least 360, might be even One) without creating a Live account.
As a consequence, it is likely that Xbox owners without an active Live account generate more revenue for Microsoft than active Live account holders without an Xbox.
So, MAU is less useful metric than console sales.
serversurfer
Member
You should ask Valve how worthless they think their shackle-less Steam users are. You know, the transients who stumbled in and spent about $1.5B in their store last year. Yes, Valve sold $1.5B worth of Windows software last year. And now they're actively encouraging people to use operating systems that aren't Windows! The fuck?? People aren't even supposed to know there are operating systems that aren't Windows, and not only are they hearing that shit from Valve, but also Apple and Google. Now Microsoft's CEO is saying he hopes people will try Windows and choose to use it? Windows as an option?? What a fucking embarrassment.Imru al-Qays;186457580 said:
for them, I mean. I'm actually rather pleased. 
Since I've managed to stumble in to the role of Devil's Advocate here, I can't entirely agree with you on that point.
I think it's clear the restructuring was happening regardless. One could argue that the money they spent fairly recently on stuff like AssCreed and Tomb Raider serves as evidence that consoles actually stood a shot at surviving the restructure, and the fact that they no longer report console numbers tells us that they simply didn't. On the other hand, perhaps that spending spree was simply to help insure it could even survive the generation as a legacy product, and it was never really going to survive the restructure. /shrugNow, I agree that they could be more straightforward about declaring the Bone to be a legacy product like Sony were with the Vita, but still being the DA here, Vita is just a small, mostly unnoticed aspect of the PlayStation brand, but I think for a lot of XBox fans, XBox is the console. Yes, the idea is to migrate those users more fully to Windows, but I think most will require a more gentle transition than an email stating, "By the way, you're a PC gamer now."
But like I said, to their credit, I feel like MS have been fairly clear without being unreasonably blunt. The only thing I've really heard Nadella say about XBox is that it's still useful because gaming is big on mobile, and mobile is important. It seems like every time somebody tries to talk to Phil about XBox lately, the first words out of his mouth are invariably, "And don't forget about Windows! I've got lots of users on there!!"
Anyway, I guess my point is this. You're arguing that they're hiding how poorly their console business is doing, and I'm saying it's more that they're not really being explicit about the fact that they're pretty much done with the console business. From a reporting standpoint, they may as well have already exited the business; so they've sorta said so without actually saying so.
Really, I get the idea that Nadella is mostly focused on mobile right now, and concedes that gaming is important to the mobile market, and Phil is campaigning backstage, arguing that XBox can also be useful in taking some of that revenue back from Valve and helping to shore up Windows-proper on the gaming front, since that's still a fairly significant segment WRT consumer usage of Windows.
As I said, Valve are actively trying to lure gamers away from Windows. Mostly to Linux, but also to Mac, which already has a huge foot in the door in terms of iOS. Apple get their lock-in through their mobile devices, and MS hope to do the same.Imru al-Qays;186457889 said:
Remember, Nadella says we're living in a mobile-first world, and he's right about that. Once you've selected your primary device your phone you're kind of locked in to that ecosystem, and that being the case, when shopping for a computer, it makes sense to choose one that compliments your phone, wouldn't you say? Remember the iPod halo effect? iPhones are way cooler than iPods.
No, there's nothing preventing you from buying your Windows software from Valve or anyone else and you can always buy your MS software anywhere, buy hey, if you buy your software from the MS store, you get a free copy for your phone* so you may as well do all of your shopping there, right?
*with supported applications
Live is the reason to get your games from MS. At least, that's the plan. And there's a lot more games being sold for Windows than XBone. Nadella wants to focus on Windows.Imru al-Qays;186458045 said:
That's not what's selling Bones. The number one reason is the brand. Oh, and "faster processing power," was number three so again, "the brand." lol People buy XBox because it says XBox on it. Why would they buy it for 3rd-party games? Those are better on PS4. Someone helpfully posted a chart, actually.
Oh, look. It was you.
So yeah, the brand is what has value. XBox supporters mostly don't care about what you slap that label on; just tell them it's better and they'll believe you, because they don't pay attention to details. MS are banking on a lot of those fans following the logo back to the mothership.
Are you sure about that? Even if that's true, games aren't the only applications people buy. MS want to be the best place to get all of your apps, including games.Imru al-Qays;186458909 said:
It has the potential to draw people in to their Windows ecosystem, which reaches across multiple device types. See above for where lock-in is typically introduced within the ecosystem.
I'm sure they're thinking about all sorts of subscriptions they can offer to Windows users. GwG would be a good start, yes.
Well, yes, but relevant platforms are Windows Phone, Surface, and W10 itself. Those are the platforms they need to shore up support for, and that's likely the priority Nadella would assign them.
WRT gaming, they'll just quietly shift their focus away from consoles, and more towards computers and then phones, most likely.
True, but keep in mind that while there are fifteen million Bone owners they can monetize to the tune of $10/month, there's like fifteen billion Windows users they can collect a dollar from, and if any of those 15 billion happen to be gamers, they'll just take $5-$10 from them instead. And they'd rather collect that bonus gaming money on Windows for free, or on Windows phone where you pay them for the device, instead of on XBox where they have to pay you to take the device from them.
Soon, they'll be making Halo to encourage people to try Windows 10, in hopes they'll continue using it.Imru al-Qays;186460745 said:
Hard to argue with that, though I'm interested to see where Apple are headed. They don't seem to be in any particular hurry to get there though, so it may be a while before we see their plans fully bear fruit.Imru al-Qays;186462137 said:
MS haven't had much luck with locking people in with their consoles, and Sony really only lock people in to their consoles and nothing else. Meanwhile, Apple and Google have been locking people in to their phones quite effectively and in massive numbers, which has the effect of making non-Windows operating systems seem like options. Again, "mobile first." That's where Nadella's real focus is, because if it's not the most important segment currently, it's right up there with the traditional computer, and it's also the segment where MS are arguably weakest. You think Sony are making them look bad in the console space, but they're getting absolutely spanked in mobile, which is probably about 1000x more important to the global computing industry than video game machines.
Right now, Microsoft's top concern is getting in your pocket. That's the place to be in 2015 and probably in 2025. If they make another real attempt to get back under your TV, it will probably come in the form of something more like a Chromecast or Apple TV, and/or licensing XBox-branded HTPCs a la Steam Machines.
That's what MS are driving for, yes. As I understand it, all development will take place on W10, and developers will be able to tick a box that magically builds additional targets for "Windows devices," such as phones, tablets, and consoles. Then when you buy from MS, you're entitled to all available versions of the app.
Well, technically everything including the Bone is now unified under W10. That said, I don't expect the Bone to become a generic HTPC, but I also don't expect them to bother with another console. It's just a lot of resources to tie up for very little real gain. You can play casual games on your Windows phone and serious games on your Windows computer, or do a little of both on your Surface. You can even plug them in to your TV if you want. MS have you covered.
Don't forget, Phil said those games were coming to Windows because Bone couldn't support them in its own, and also remember that Windows is the platform Phil's boss actually gives a shit about. But anyway, this isn't growing pains. See above; they're moving past consoles, and focusing on things that actually matter to them. Those games are coming to Windows because Windows is what matters most to MS.
Since I've managed to stumble in to the role of Devil's Advocate here, I can't entirely agree with you on that point.
Now, I agree that they could be more straightforward about declaring the Bone to be a legacy product like Sony were with the Vita, but still being the DA here, Vita is just a small, mostly unnoticed aspect of the PlayStation brand, but I think for a lot of XBox fans, XBox isthe console. Yes, the idea is to migrate those users more fully to Windows, but I think most will require a more gentle transition than an email stating, "By the way, you're a PC gamer now."
But like I said, to their credit, I feel like MS have been fairly clear without being unreasonably blunt. The only thing I've really heard Nadella say about XBox is that it's still useful because gaming is big on mobile, and mobile is important. It seems like every time somebody tries to talk to Phil about XBox lately, the first words out of his mouth are invariably, "And don't forget about Windows! I've got lots of users on there!!"
Anyway, I guess my point is this. You're arguing that they're hiding how poorly their console business is doing, and I'm saying it's more that they're not really being explicit about the fact that they're pretty much done with the console business. From a reporting standpoint, they may as well have already exited the business; so they've sorta said so without actually saying so.
There's a lot they've done to try to remain competitive in the console business though. If this was the case we would be seeing first party titles releasing day and date across console and PC. This hasn't happened yet. I also don't think we'd be seeing their heavy investment in third party exclusive content (i.e. Scalebound, Tomb Raider, etc). These deals tell me they definitely want people choosing their console not their ecosystem (PC, mobile etc) as a whole.
I absolutely agree that Nadella is overwhelmingly focused on mobile. I think his policy changes have shown as much with the push for office and other MS software on iOS. I do also think he is aware that Xbox is their only "cool" branding right now and that has played into their rebranding of MS Store on Windows. I think he's well aware of the value the brand could have when it comes to gaining or retaining a very lucrative market in gaming across all windows devices. I am not sold on the idea that he will attempt to combat steam though. I think it's far more likely that they will seek to coexist with steam and instead utilize the Xbox store to grow and profit specifically from that brand by way of largely exclusive content and features.
It's the obvious choice if their goal is to sell OC gamers in the benefit of subscription based gaming. It will still be an uphill battle though.
Nadella is also making a push to get their software in as many devices and OS as possible. I can see thusvalsingeubg true for a small subset of games as a sort of taste of what can be had from the full Windows experience. To lure gamers currently in other platforms to their new ecosystem so to speak.
So you're of the mind that it will be a slower more gradual shift than a blowout. I'm inclined to agree. I think it will start becoming more and more obvious as this console gen winds down. But there is also a possibility they'll go big with the move and position it as a shift to "the real next gen experience". I don't think it's as likely but it's certainly possible.
CosmicQueso
Member
October is still interesting.
Like, November will be interesting. But October is still interesting.
So much interesting. Interesting overload. If MS had Live accounts like October has interesting, they'd have 140 share of the market!
Like, November will be interesting. But October is still interesting.
So much interesting. Interesting overload. If MS had Live accounts like October has interesting, they'd have 140 share of the market!
You can't get on Live without a Live account though.
Recall when Phil Spencer said at GDC earlier this year that he wants Xbox customers to start to think of themselves as customers of Xbox Live, and that they want gamers to be able to play their games where they want to play them. Also consider how Nadella said he thinks mobile gaming (taking the experience with you across screens) is what he believes they can accomplish with Xbox.
If Phil is being charged with trying to grow active Live users who must login into Live to access their games, no matter the device, then it makes sense.
Phil explained earlier this year that A) the decision to make Xbox a Windows 10 platform was recent and B) there were games already in development for quite some time where it didn't make sense to disrupt the production schedule. He and another Xbox exec have more recently said the goal is to have 100% of the games available on Windows 10 devices eventually. It makes sense seeing as how games typically take 2-3 years to make.
I also wish they were being more transparent with their timeline, but it's not unusual for a game company to keep things close to their chest. It may even be fair to say they're probably still trying to figure out how to do it.
RexNovis said:
Agreed. I think from Nadella's point of view as long as Windows is the primary OS for game development then it's another way to ensure Windows stays competitive in the marketplace. A few major exclusives that have audiences of millions every year only on Windows 10 may help reinforce Windows as a preferred gaming OS, in turn keeping Windows development top of mind for game developers, publishers, and marketplaces like Steam. I don't think Nadella or Spencer want to piss off anyone and give them reasons to want to to a growing OS like iOS/OSX or Android one day.
RexNovis said:
I think it's fair to say they have the smallest in-house team for game development, so it makes sense it will take them time to put resources in place to take on game and service development for multiple devices. They're starting small with things like KI, Gears Ultimate, Fable Legends, Sea of Thieves, and Halo Wars 2. I won't be surprised if most of next year's E3 announcements say Windows 10 and Xbox on them. I believe they will try to have everything in place in time for the next gen cycle and standardize on simultaneous releases across Windows devices.
slavesnyder
Member
we have a metric for people who can't stand sales numbers, it's called Live subscriptions.
Are you saying that Microsoft has decided to not sell games to Xbox owners who do not have a Live account?
That's an odd interpretation of what I wrote. I suppose that's a possibility, but I'm not sure that's conclusive based on what they've said thus far.
The way I interpret is they're going to focus (read: not only, just make a concentrated effort) on making games that encourage gamers to use Live. If you take what they've said about the Live business being high-margin then it would make sense that they try to get more customers into it.
Metalingus5150
Member
And yet when consumer's are polled exclusives are not in the top of any of the list.
What is? How well they play 3rd party games and brand recognition
Whoever made that chart is stupid.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
The chart was made based on a consumer poll
I think that's based on survey.
Metalingus5150
Member
Those people are stupid. How is fun factor not number 1 on all of them?
FranXico
Member
Either most people who chose Xbox One are, according to the reasons listed in the poll results table, fanboys, or the survey was poorly designed.
November: "The most interesting NPD in the world."
December: "It's like, how much more interesting can this be? And the answer is none. None more interesting."
January: "Brokeback NPD: I wish I knew how to interest you."
February: "Cool Hand NPD: What we got here is... failure to interest."
March: "King NPD: It was sales killed the interest."
etc.
slavesnyder
Member
CosmicQueso
Member
The Mad Draklor
Member
Lol, these should be in in the thread titles just for the hilarity xD
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Huooh, War never changes.
Obliterator
Member
Haha its pretty funny how there are people on Sales GAF that think the Xbox PC thing isn't coming. That's nice.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Xbox PC thing? I'm not sure what you mean?
Sure, but when every post starts off or ends with some variation of "next month will be interesting" it gets kind of ridiculous. We're just poking fun at the trend.
Haha
Obliterator
Member
Xbox Live becoming an actual presence on PC.
To be fair, unless you've been closely following Xbox developments via bits and pieces from various interviews and conference keynotes with Spencer and Nadella it's not likely you'll be aware of what they've said over the last 9 months regarding their plans. They haven't put it into a clear communication plan to promote, but that's fair seeing as how they don't quite have a single game available yet to illustrate what they're talking about.
In what way? Do you think they will start charging users to play multiplayer on PC? Or do you simply think they'll carry the games from your live account over?
Welfare
Member
The store could be open to anyone like Steam, but with Xbox Live you get bonuses.
They can't just have Xbox on PC be behind a paywall because then the only customers you would have would be the already existing XBL user base.
Hockeymac18
Member
"Steam machines" for W10 is something I see happening eventually. Look at the Surface model. MS will still make hardware - they'll try to create something that is leading - but I see it becoming more open, and other vendors getting in on the game.
I do agree that the Xbox Live issue will exist (i.e. how do they charge for online in this environment?)...and to be honest, I don't know how that will be addressed. If I had to guess, I'd think that they would try to leverage things with the subscription model - maybe offering servers, cross-play, cross-buy, ability to play your games anywhere, etc as part of that package. But I don't know how this would all work out. I'm sure there are people at MS trying to figure this out.
I don't know if it'll be next generation (I imagine the generation after next) - but I see this happening.
And for what it's worth, I see Playstation eventually going to a services/subscription model.
And I look forward to this day. I can't wait to basically be able to play all games on a single machine - want to play PS games? Load up the Playstation App...Xbox? Xbox App - and so on.
Hockeymac18
Member
Black Friday could of course change things (since this weekend apparently accounts for about half of all November sales), but currently: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/2015-11/videogames/
I expect both to sell a ton, with PS4 coming out on top.
I'll be curious to see where the "bomb" that is Halo 5 ends up after this weekend, too, as it's sitting at #15 currently (only Fallout 4, COD, and Battlefront are above it) - indicating, to me at least, that it could (edit: removed should safely) chart in November (unless this weekend has something weird happen with sales for other/older games).
Edit: apparently Amazon is a terrible predictor of software sales - so ignore the above about Halo 5.
The Wii U by a nose.