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***There's one Quiet spoiler for MGSV in the article***

Didn't noticed any for Halo 5, Beyond Two Souls, or Tomb Raider.


http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/there-is-no-smart-reason-for-naked-women-in-video-games-7914860

This year in gaming has had seen one of the most ridiculous trends in game development in recent memory: the conceit that there is a reason for nude or near-nude female characters in a game outside of the obvious one involving giving straight male players a boner. Studios that really, really should have known better keep trotting out pretentious narrative reasons in order to explain away any criticism about portrayals or sexual objectification of women in the media.

First there was Quiet from Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. The sniper’s skimpy outfit drew fire prior to the game’s release and director Hideo Kojima took to Twitter explaining that once we knew the reason for her being underdressed we would all be “ashamed.” When the reason ended up being that Quiet

Spoiler

has to breathe through her skin

the only shame I felt was for the MSG franchise. Leaving aside the fact that if this was true you’d expect her to shave her head and that a male character with the same ability was allowed to remain fully-clothed for the moment, if this was the reason then why does Quiet spend a good deal of her time posing as if she was a cat in heat?

Next up we got Cortana in Halo 5: Guardians. She’s an artificial intelligence and she appears completely in the buff. Franchise director Frank O’Connor explained this in a Games Radar interview. Which, again, makes no sense at all. By O’Connor’s logic Cortana would be just as effective if she was a giant floating head, a talking snake or that winged eyeball thing from A Wind in the Door.

It’s important to remember that video game characters do not themselves make choices. Cortana does not actually choose to appear naked and Quiet doesn’t choose to

Spoiler

breathe out of her

cleavage rather than through the top of her bald head. These choices are made for them.

I’m not saying nobody should ever be naked in games. I like the female form as much as the next guy. However, there are two things I’d like to see games do better. The first is technical. If you’re going to strip Cortana quit trying to skirt the issue by blurring the sex characteristics. I’m starting to wonder if anyone at 343 Industries has ever actually seen a vulva.

Yes, that would change the rating of the game which brings us to the second thing; stop lying to yourselves and the audience. We don’t see Cortana’s genitals because then the game would seem explicitly sexual in her regard. However, Cortana is already being displayed as explicitly sexual and there’s no point in trying to deny it with coyness.

If you want a badass sniper, make a badass sniper. If you want to see her naked write a tender love scene. Don’t have her

Spoiler

sunbathe topless

and try to convince us it’s her genetic heritage or something. Nudity in media is like buying a condom: if you can’t openly admit what it’s for you probably aren’t mature enough to be using it as intended.

 

[DocSeuss]

Cortana was wearing clothes in Guardians, tho.

 

[Machina]

So you're telling me women DON'T ever sunbathe topless?

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Interesting and well written article but on the point of Tomb Raider 2013, there was a lot of struggle with keeping Lara's design familiar so I imagine the tank top might've been something enforced. Particularly seeing as there were multiple DLC outfits, most of which offer a jacket of some kind.

When you then take into account that Lara dresses appropriately in ROTTR it kind of implies to me that CD had a bit more freedom with that after earning trust with the first game. Especially seeing as Lara's identifiers are now her bow, climbing axe, and ponytail.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

Well....yeah?

 

[grandjedi6]

Quiet being half naked was hilarious bullshit.

 

[Tye The Czar]

stop lying to yourselves and the audience. We don’t see Cortana’s genitals because then the game would seem explicitly sexual in her regard. However, Cortana is already being displayed as explicitly sexual and there’s no point in trying to deny it with coyness.

I doubt games like Senran Kagura have a problem with this("Wrap the world in happy boobs!"). I much prefer creators who are up front about designing females to arouse anyone attracted to them.

 

[akira28]

I feel like I've seen these sentiments a thousand times, and it feels no different coming from a news paper reporter.

actually it might have even less credibility.

 

[James Scott]

So you're telling me women DON'T ever sunbathe topless?

It was cloudy and raining when Quiet was sunbathing in my game so no.

Spoiler

Quiet is best buddy, but the excuse is dumb

 

[doofy102]

Do we really need a smart reason?

 

[Palculator]

Spoiler

Quiet's cool.

 

[Brave]

Lady Yunalesca begs to differ.

 

[Ferrio]

Do we really need a smart reason?

I think that's the point.

 

[JoseLopez]

What about sex scenes, shower,toilet etc? Nudity isn't a bad thing sexism is but whatever I guess

 

[GamerJM]

I mean....I think there can be, just not in MGS or Halo. But I mean, imagine a game that explores the entire concept of nudity, both as a focal story point and in the gameplay itself.

 

[Sakura]

Well if she was just naked without any dumb in game reason, wouldn't it be a little weird?
I don't really mind the stupid reasons, what difference does it make?

 

[Skux]

I mean, the whole Quiet thing was so self-aware that even "She

Spoiler

breathes through her skin!

" was basically "I'm Kojima and I like boobs and my audience does too."

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Spoiler

Quiet's cool.

Yeah, no problem with fan service, but be honest about it instead of pretending otherwise. Vanillaware to my knowledge never tried to make out there was some deep meaning behind the Sorceress' and Barbarian's fetishy designs, nor should they of.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

It’s important to remember that video game characters do not themselves make choices. Cortana does not actually choose to appear naked and Quiet doesn’t choose to breathe out of her cleavage rather than through the top of her bald head. These choices are made for them.

I think maybe the author confused these collections of art, animation, and voice over, to be actual people.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

"Next up we got Cortana in Halo 5: Guardians"

1. spoilerz guyz

2.

Spoiler

such naked

 

[Matt]

What about sex scenes, shower,toilet etc? Nudity isn't a bad thing sexism is but whatever I guess

The author address that:

If you want to see her naked write a tender love scene

 

[Corpekata]

I mean, the whole Quiet thing was so self-aware that even "She

Spoiler

breathes through her skin!

" was basically "I'm Kojima and I like boobs and my audience does too."

I don't think Hideo "You will be ashamed of your words and deeds" Kojima strikes me as self aware about his reasons.

 

[matrix-cat]

There's a huge difference between something like DOAX, which never pretends to be anything other than softcore CG porn for creepers, and MGSV, which expects you to take its bullshit seriously and then presents you with a lady who dresses like a cheap hooker and can't even make up its own mind about whether she just can't talk or whether she can't communicate at all (seriously, someone tell me why Quiet never just wrote a fucking note).

There's nothing wrong with creating Bouncy Boob Simulator 2015, but if you're shooting for an actual serious business story and you've still got all your female characters mincing about in miniskirts and pasties you deserve all the criticism you get.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

What about sex scenes, shower,toilet etc? Nudity isn't a bad thing sexism is but whatever I guess

The title might suggest otherwise, but in the article the author states that they don't have issues with nudity in games. The issue is the paper thin reasons for those design choices that read more-so as an excuse/shield from that the developer just wanted skin.

 

[BocoDragon]

Maybe they're actually more interested in justifying their choice in canon than in justifying it to critics?

I mean..... Kojima also has a "smart reason" for why there was a vampire in his semi-realistic military series. The real reason is because it's just cool to have a vampire.... but he wants to justify it for no other reason than in-game logic.

 

[Madness]

I'd say money is actually a very smart reason. Sex sells. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Just look at the game of war Kate Upton ads etc. Now this doesn't mean you drop a naked woman into Minecraft. But it means if you have a female sidekick, you tend to make her attractive, demure, even sexy. It's why Quiet looks that way, it's why Cortana looked that way in Halo 4, why Liara and Ashley and Miranda and Jack look the way they did in Mass Effect, it's why Zoe Saldana was modeled so perfectly in Avatar. James Cameron said he wanted people to believe that this could be 'your' girlfriend. They know that young males especially develop the 'waifu' attachment. It's why wrestling has the divas, who while being vastly improved from the late 90's, are still hyper sexualized. Porn, sex, nudity are big business, and marketers and advertisers and content creators know this. It's why Carl's Jr. makes those ads.

Whether this continues into the future. I don't know. You don't want to alienate a large portion of the fanbase who may object to sexualized portrayals, but I think you'll continue to see it for the foreseeable future. As for why they make the sniper sexy instead of have her in a sex scene, they want to avoid the negative connotations that nudity and sex scenes would get in video games in America.

 

[chaobreaker]

Yeah, no problem with fan service, but be honest about it instead of pretending otherwise. Vanillaware to my knowledge never tried to make out there was some deep meaning behind the Sorceress' and Barbarian's fetishy designs, nor should they of.

While Vanillaware didn't, but I read some cornball fan-justifications for the Sorceress' design in some online circles, like people citing those Venus figures or necromancer lore. Some of the most spectacular mental gymnastics for some huge anime boobs.

 

[Palculator]

There's a huge difference between something like DOAX, which never pretends to be anything other than softcore CG porn for creepers, and MGSV, which expects you to take its bullshit seriously and then presents you with a lady who dresses like a cheap hooker and can't even make up its own mind about whether she just can't talk or whether she can't communicate at all (seriously, someone tell me why Quiet never just wrote a fucking note).

But she does write.

 

[Thorakai]

Yeah, no problem with fan service, but be honest about it instead of pretending otherwise. Vanillaware to my knowledge never tried to make out there was some deep meaning behind the Sorceress' and Barbarian's fetishy designs, nor should they of.

I know someome in this forum disagrees with you here. There was some lengthy post that talked about the sorceress' big breasts being some god of fertility brilliant reference or some such.

Also having not played MGSV yet, that Quiet explanation is hilarious.

 

[Dio]

I'd say money is actually a very smart reason. Sex sells.

Yeah, this. It gets people like one of my longtime friends, whose only contribution in IRC has been to post screenshots of Elins or fanart of Elins in Tera for almost three years now. It's become his entire online persona as far as I can tell to obsess over them. Every time he joins the damn chat he's got five image links to some screenshots of Elins from the game.

You get lots of money from those dudes. It makes sense to me.

 

[Vex_]

Yeah, this. It gets people like one of my longtime friends, whose only contribution in IRC has been to post screenshots of Elins or fanart of Elins in Tera for almost three years now. It's become his entire online persona as far as I can tell to obsess over them. Every time he joins the damn chat he's got five image links to some screenshots of Elins from the game.

You get lots of money from those dudes. It makes sense to me.

Damn bro, why'd you air out your pal like that?

 

[Corpekata]

Yeah, this. It gets people like one of my longtime friends, whose only contribution in IRC chat has been to post screenshots of Elins or fanart of Elins in Tera for almost three years now. It's become his entire online persona as far as I can tell to obsess over them. Every time he joins the damn chat he's got five image links to some screenshots of Elins from the game.

You get lots of money from those dudes. It makes sense to me.

Something tells me "obsessive over hypersexualized child-like race in a modestly successful MMO" is not a big market.

Or god I hope it's not.

 

[Fantomex]

Same reason HBO constantly asked Game Of Thrones producers for a lot more sex in season 2, it sells. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Dio]

Damn bro, why'd you air out your pal like that?

I don't know him in real life or anything, I just haven't seen him post about anything non-Elin related in a very long time.

 

[Palculator]

While Vanillaware didn't, but I read some cornball fan-justifications for the Sorceress' design in some online circles, like people citing those Venus figures or necromancer lore. Some of the most spectacular mental gymnastics for some huge anime boobs.

I know someome in this forum disagrees with you here. There was some lengthy post that talked about the sorceress' big breasts being some god of fertility brilliant reference or some such.

Also having not played MGSV yet, that Quiet explanation is hilarious.

I think both of you are talking about the latter parts of this article (if not, feel free to post more.) But I don't think it's trying to give a "smart reason" for the respective designs in the sense the author of the article in the OP means. They're just tracing artistic influences and symbolism to justify why they think it's good art and has merit, despite obvious sexualisation. It's not about giving an in-lore reason for the Sorceress' cleavage, which is the focus of the article this thread opened with.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Maybe they're actually more interested in justifying their choice in canon than justifying it to critics?

That's basically exactly the case with Cortana. While "nude" in her original design, it was more of a non-sexualized pixi-esque depiction, and with the low fidelity models and texture work people never really considered her "naked" at the time. People who look at that and lump Cortana in with the "frat guy devs and gamers just like boobs" group of characters are silly.

There was also no canonical reason for her look at the time, it was just an interesting design. As her model became more detailed with each game the nudity became more apparent though, and as more AIs with greatly varied appearances entered the canon they had to come up with canonical reasoning for her appearance. Hence the (admittedly dumb) reason they came up.

It's also silly that 343i is getting shit for this now given her depiction in Halo 5.

 

[Golnei]

Something tells me "obsessive over hypersexualized child-like race in a modestly successful MMO" is not a big market.

Or god I hope it's not.

Regardless of size, it's clear that market is nothing if not reliable and dedicated.

 

[xenist]

If you want a badass sniper, make a badass sniper. If you want to see her naked write a tender love scene. Don’t have her

Spoiler

sunbathe topless

and try to convince us it’s her genetic heritage or something. Nudity in media is like buying a condom: if you can’t openly admit what it’s for you probably aren’t mature enough to be using it as intended.

This right here. Finding out the "justification" for Quiet being dressed like a stripper literally made me facepalm.

 

[Corpekata]

Regardless of size, it's clear that market is nothing if not reliable and dedicated.

Yeah, but the article is talking about examples in Jillion dollar budget games like MGS V and Halo, and the guy I quoted responded to examples like Avatar. It's obvious the otaku bait games sell to their niche, but I don't think they really explain the presence in mainstream AAA titles.

Like does MGSV sell worse without Quiet?

 

[post-S]

They might look attractive. What better reason do you need? Questing a non- serious fiction's reasoning is rediculous

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I know someome in this forum disagrees with you here. There was some lengthy post that talked about the sorceress' big breasts being some god of fertility brilliant reference or some such.

Also having not played MGSV yet, that Quiet explanation is hilarious.

I mean, I think Vanillaware said it was based off Frank Frazetta's art but dialed up to 11 (or something to that effect), which I can easily see. But talking about your influences and how your'e going for a bombastic, larger-than-life feel for your game doesn't really contradict having big tits either.

I don't think it was intended to have a deep, psychological meaning, but I do think they had a 'vision' for Dragon's Crown and the character designs they went with didn't conflict with that at all. Speaking as a fan of the game who was totally fine with Sorceress and Barbarian btw in case anyone thinks I was trying to diss Kamitani's response.

Quiet in comparison didn't strike me as being as tongue-in-cheek about her sexuality in MGSV as other people felt she did. I'm not 'offended' or anything by her, but I think the explanation they gave to make that look 'fit' MGS felt contrived. Just say she feels like dressing like that and leave it at that. If the complaints get to you, either decide to change it for next time (yeah I get this is ironic given MGS' current situation) or stick with your guns and keep it in. Making a big deal about it one way or the other is never a great look.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Maybe they're actually more interested in justifying their choice in canon than in justifying it to critics?

More likely, they're trying to justify their choice in canon specifically to justify it to critics. I mean, I really doubt the truth about Cortana has been held back for, like, a decade, until the perfect time to reveal it appeared. Likewise, Kojima hasn't bothered to explain the revealing clothing his female characters have worn until now.

I'll admit I don't know much about Halo or MGS overall though, so maybe I've got this all wrong.

 

[mothball]

I doubt games like Senran Kagura have a problem with this("Wrap the world in happy boobs!"). I much prefer creators who are up front about designing females to arouse anyone attracted to them.

conveniently short memory but no, from the very beginning senran got the exact same shit hurled at it even with the developers being as frank as they are. the usuals just realized that all the crying and bad reviews in the world weren't going to deter marvelous at all and eventually moved on.

 

[tejpis]

Stop trying to limit creators or we'll never see games become art. Why can't we have a game with surrealistic orgies of flying dwarfs? Would the present climate allow a Salvador Dali of gaming? Shakespeare? Oscar Wilde? Obviously the big publishers would never allow such a thing but if we ostracize even indie creators because their vision is off putting to you, we'll get nowhere as no one will dare break from the established norms.

I think the effort should be to make people softer and more tolerant, rather than making all games such. Art doesn't have to be soft and tolerant.

(Yes that means we will see lots of low effort titty slap simulators but that's fine, you don't have to play them, just as you don't have to read Twilight fan ficton.)

 

[darksagus]

Since when do artists and designers have to justify their decisions with the world? They can create whatever they want, for whatever reasions, and the market will determine whether the product is a success or not.

 

[BocoDragon]

Like does MGSV sell worse without Quiet?

In Japan especially, a character like that might move more merchandise.

But I do think it's just a habit of the Japanese games industry, at this point. The whole gaming/anime/manga industry is used to putting pandering elements in to hook otaku fans who buy toys and junk.

Western media is similar... you gotta have the "attractive female lead" in any blockbuster.

 

[Random17]

It's also silly that 343i is getting shit for this now given her depiction in Halo 5.

I think it was the Frankie quote that set them off. We all know why Cortana is naked, and Madness explained it above perfectly.


That being said, Cortana is wearing clothes in Halo 5, lol.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Spoiler

Quiet's cool.

Lol. Though replace Kamitani with the Senran Kagura guy and yeah. At least they don't play games.

 

[Harlequin]

In the context of something like the whole Quiet thing in MGSV, I'm certainly inclined to agree. However, the headline is just far too generalising. Of course there are good reasons for showing nudity, both male and female. Heavy Rain is a good example. Should Ethan or Madison have worn swimsuits in their shower scenes? No, nobody does that. Should the scenes have been skipped out of body shame or some other bullshit reason? No, because nudity is nothing to be ashamed of (TBH I'm still somewhat appalled that the original versions of the scenes had the full-frontal nudity removed from them - not because I wanted to stare at their virtual genitals so bad but because it's another example of art being censored in favour of archaic, outdated and idiotic "values"). Video games have the right to feature nudity just like any other art form does, the problem is more with specific instances (which, admittedly, are still far too numerous) where it's handled in a sexist and/or immature manner, not with the medium as a whole.

 

[Golnei]

Yeah, but the article is talking about examples in Jillion dollar budget games like MGS V and Halo, and the guy I quoted responded to examples like Avatar. It's obvious the otaku bait games sell to their niche, but I don't think they really explain the presence in mainstream AAA titles.

Like does MGSV sell worse without Quiet?

I'm not sure about how it affects the sales figures of the games themselves, but Quiet's design played a heavy role in MGSV's merchandising - the game in that sense would serve as advertising for the whales in the audience who'd be inclined to buy several squeezable Quiet figurines. If it doesn't hurt the sales of the game but actively helps merchandising in other respects, they don't have much of a reason to stop.