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Who is preventing online cross-play from happening?
- Thread starter Blak_Status
- Start date
Goodacre0081
Member
that was cross-play with Games for Windows Live. they're fine with PC alignment, as long as people only play in their garden with Windows10. I guarantee you they wont be as eager to accept Steam into their cross-play plans.
cross-play will be a XB1/Windows10 thing, much like xbox360/GFWL was.
kavanf1
Member
Probably none, I think it's likely there are people in MS as frustrated as anyone about the situation (post 86).
Paragon by Epic Games will also have PS4-PC cross-platform multiplayer. And if you play the PS4 version, your progress will carry over to the PC version, and vice versa.
Brawlhalla, Boundless, Dead Star, Dragon's Dogma Online, Final Fantasy XIV, Atom Universe, Guns of Icarus Online, Rocket League, Phantasy Star Online 2, Street Fighter V, War Thunder and Super Dungeon Bros all have PS4-PC cross-play.
Brawlhalla, Boundless, Dead Star, Dragon's Dogma Online, Final Fantasy XIV, Atom Universe, Guns of Icarus Online, Rocket League, Phantasy Star Online 2, Street Fighter V, War Thunder and Super Dungeon Bros all have PS4-PC cross-play.
Yea, this is pretty much why I think MS isn't keen on the idea, as it is essentially removing the online standardisations and leaves it up to the developer to create a functioning online ecosystem that facilitates both platforms. Simply functions like chatting, sending messages, game invites etc are typically not something the developer needs to concern themselves with as they are standard to the platform itself, and so MS can guarantee a certain level of quality and basic featuresets for every game on the platform. If crossplatform was the standard, then XBL essentially ceases to be.
I guess I understand how they want the experience consistent across all games where you can report or flag someone or invite someone to party or view their profile. All that stuff works really well and I actually use my xbox one a lot more often because of that stuff. Games like Rocket League and FFXIV just stand out like sore thumbs. I suppose changing their stance for a year old port isn't super important.
Except that has already happened with Nintendo and Sony. See Pure Chess. Has cross play among literally every platform including mobile, except for Xbox.
Why do people keep repeating this provably false rhetoric? FF14 shows that it's literally just MS.
forgeforsaken
Member
That's a MS store Win10 game though isn't it? I don't think it would be the same case if it was a 3rd party game on Steam.
Dead Star and Paragon are two more upcoming PC/PS4 crossplay titles.
The Faceless Master
Member
sorry folks, Nintendo doesn't count as cross-platform console online gaming. Sony is just as much to blame as MS. both sides, etc...
*puts blinders back on*
*puts blinders back on*
That metaphor doesn't really work since neither company need to work together in that scenario.
I doubt that Sony and MS have to work together to allow third party servers to allow any type of device to connect to it. I mean, the internet is device agnostic by default, and generally all you're doing is send UDP and TCP packets to each device, and the application interprets the contents of those packets.
And for the person on the first page saying "MS doesn't allow it because security reasons"... what? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Kent
Member
Everyone is always quick to jump onto blaming Microsoft for this, because of the context in which this comes up all the time.
The actual answer here is that PSN and Xbox Live standards are directly incompatible with each other. That is, if you want cross-platform play, you effectively have to pick either Xbox Live or PSN, and then they can also play with PC (since there's no effective standard there, unless you're working through Steam - or you go with Xbox Live, which is supported in the OS as of Windows 10).
This comes up and people blame Microsoft specifically because it's something that was implemented between PC and PSN first. I can guarantee that the same thing would be happening if a PS4 version of a game launched after the X1 and PC versions already are out and have cross-platform multiplayer.
The user-facing quality standards are a big thing for Microsoft and Xbox Live, which is another reason why it's difficult for developers to add in support for that post-release for the purposes of making it cross-platform. When games implement this sort of thing from the start, it actually works quite well - for example, in Shadowrun (PC balance issues aside), Skulls of the Shogun, and Fusion: Sentient/Genesis (though those were a different type of cross-platform interaction).
Yes, Microsoft is in part to blame, because of the way their service is set up, and because of the standards and requirements that they have. However, to completely absolve other platform holders from blame in this topic is intellectually dishonest, at the very least.
I dunno, man. I need to see more evidence before I could blame MS for really cock blocking all PS4 & XB1 cross play.
But I mean, Sony doesn't even need to answer that question at all, considering the reverse isn't happening. ex XB1 titles with PC cross play enabled, ported to PS4.
NeuAscension
Banned
He's still a threat.
SomedayTheFire
Member
If a developer wanted, and had the back of Sony and Microsoft they could feasibly tap into both to create a cross platform game. I'm not sure what the point of this post is you're saying we shouldn't absolve Sony, but providing no actual reason why? Sony have shown they're OK with cross platform with Steam and Wii U which are completely different systems. Microsoft only with Windows App Store titles.
Are you sure that the Play Station versions are cross-platfrom? The official website only mentions cross-play between Nintendo 3DS, Wii U, iOS and Android.
October 2013
"We're still talking to Sony about them relaxing their policies, but we don't think they'll have any issue with it. So when we launch Pure Chess you'll be able to play against Wii U, 3DS, iOS and Android players. And when we patch PlayStation those consoles will be added into the mix as well."
April 2014
''Can I play Pure Chess PS4 cross-platform with other Pure Chess users on different consoles and devices?
Not at the moment, but this is definitely something we'll be looking to implement between PlayStation Platforms (at the very least) in the future. If you already have the game on Wii U, 3DS, Android or iOS you can play cross-platform on any of these devices, right now! We'll update you guys with the details on the PS4 cross-platform front soon!''
I can't find any more info after that so it would be great if someone with the game could confirm it.
Depending on the game itself I can understand console gamers not wanting to play with PC gamers. I started off Quake III Arena on the Dreamcast, with a joypad, and believe me all the Dreamcast players were just being slaughtered in every single server by PC players running the game at 125fps, at 1600x1200, with broadband connections and some high precision Razor mouse etc... you either moved to PC at earliest opportunity, or accepted that the top spot in nearly every match was essentially unattainable. Not every game should be multiplatform imo.
kavanf1
Member
That was me. Not sure why it doesn't make sense. MS has put a shitload of effort into making a secure gaming network (Live) and hosting platform (Azure), and adequate security is a cornerstone of a reliable service. I think it's highly likely that one or more of the parties in MS involved in doing the due diligence on a crossplatform deal with products whose reliability and security controls are (to MS) completely unknown is probably a major factor in MS's reticence in this area. I see third party vendors being turned down for that kind of thing all the time.
That doesn't explain them allowing cross plateform in the past.
Especially since FFXI didn't even use Xbox servers.
kavanf1
Member
Well said.
Shadowrun was crossplay because it was confined to the Live ecosystem. It's barely the definition of crossplay, in which people think more of complete hardware agnostic game.
They also broke it years ago and never came back to fix it (you can't voice chat anymore)
I would be fascinated to see a quote that has Sony or a partnered developer saying they'd be fine letting a PlayStation title connect to a game running on XBL.
These developers are talking about the PC ports of their games before anything else. It takes two haves to shake. MS doesn't want XBL linking up to PSN and I can't imagine Sony doesn't feel the same, but they're lucky in that they've never really been asked, near as I can tell.
I'll ask you kindly not to put words in my mouth. We're having the discussion and no, I don't believe self-proclaimed MS policy experts on NeoGAF. You don't like that. Whatever. Give this crap back to the poster that said it though. Batmanwhoever.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Because PS4-PC crossplay is a thing MS doesn't seem to want to interact with.
I'm sure if companies were running PC-only and wanted to let XBO in on it, MS would go for it.
Don't have source on Criterion but Defiance was demoed up until near release with PS3/360 crossplay, and was removed at Microsoft's behest.
I think that in particular, "crossplay" in this context means the interaction between two separate online networks (such as Steam and PSN). The same network on two distinct HW platforms is different.
Yoshida has said only MS is preventing 14 from being on xbox. Meaning Sony is fine with it.
So no you're wrong.
FFXI was a sole exception made back in an era where Microsoft thought they might actually be able to make the Xbox relevant in Japan.
They did this basically in exchange for ff13 on 360.
kavanf1
Member
There's company policy, and then there's management who have the authority to grant exceptions. The ones that happened could have been authorised exceptions, proof of concepts, a myriad of reasons. MS is a big complex company and is well known for not being cohesive across its divisions. It's not really surprising that things look so messy.
I'm not saying it's right that they don't support it, I'm just trying to give some context for why they may have made that decision, to contrast with the frankly infantile "MS hates the customer" nonsense that gets spouted.
Yeah, I'd personally define crossplay as that. It has to play across different networks entirely.
People really should call two versions of a game on the same network something else, like ecosystem play or intraplay or (someone come up with something better)
Delusibeta
Banned
Almost all of the PC - console cross play games mentioned are custom solutions, which explains why they're relatively rare. With that said, the reason why people keep going "it's Microsoft" is that they're the only console company that we know that completely prevents custom backend solutions that allows players from outside of the ecosystem to play within players inside the ecosystem. Both Sony and Nintendo has examples of games doing just that.
The counter argument is that Microsoft is also the only company providing an off the shelf solution to PC - console cross play. The big problem is that it's almost certainly going to be exclusively for the Win10Store versions of the games in question, which makes it completely useless.
The counter argument is that Microsoft is also the only company providing an off the shelf solution to PC - console cross play. The big problem is that it's almost certainly going to be exclusively for the Win10Store versions of the games in question, which makes it completely useless.
It's deeply rooted in Microsoft's corporate culture. Go look up how they behaved with Internet Explorer, Word, etc etc.
It's not a security problem cause it would be the same as connecting to Netflix or hulu on the one.
I'm not sure if MS would even allow that, if the developers wanted to integrate a PC game on e.g. Steam with XBL.
as has been said. FFXIV's producer has already said it's MS' policy preventing FFXIV on XBONE.
Delusibeta
Banned
Ironically, cross play was coined by Sony as a phrase to describe cross platform play between the Vita, the PS3 and the PS4. It's since caught on as a short hand for cross platform play in general, probably because all of the cross platform play games in recent years has involved Sony consoles in some way. If anything needs renamed, it's going to be the term for cross ecosystem play.
kavanf1
Member
shadowrun was going to bomb hard if it didnt offer something new being a VISTA EXCLUSIVE at that time, where most people were content with xp. So that was a tactic that in the long run, failed cause the game bombed. I absolutely loved shadowrun tbh.
plus microsoft didnt do things right with gfwl.
Yup.
Iorv3th
Member
How did it work with FFXI being on PS2/PC/X360?
Exception. The game (along with PSU) was allowed to offer multiplayer outside of Xbox Live. They didn't even need a Gold subscription for online play. You'll likely never see this exception granted again.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
It does seem like Microsoft is the one choosing to keep it's One community isolated.