RubberJohnny
Banned
So did Emily delete this? The Link doesn't work and it's gone from her profile.
Does that imply the info is legit after all?
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Rumor: GFK Market Research Survey about Nintendo NX leaked
- Thread starter MrV4ltor
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So did Emily delete this? The Link doesn't work and it's gone from her profile.
Does that imply the info is legit after all?
ecosse_011172
Junior Member
The 900p is clearly nonsense.
The CEO has acknowledged that Wii U was perceived as under-powered and it already supports 1080p (albeit most games are 720P) and they're likely to only aim for 900p?
I don't expect the console to be a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination but it clearly will have games running at 1080p.
The CEO has acknowledged that Wii U was perceived as under-powered and it already supports 1080p (albeit most games are 720P) and they're likely to only aim for 900p?
I don't expect the console to be a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination but it clearly will have games running at 1080p.
kitchenmotors
Banned
So did Emily delete this? The Link doesn't work and it's gone from her profile.
Does that imply the info is legit after all?
No, it's not legit.
Stop trying to make 900p a thing. You people are ridiculous.
RubberJohnny
Banned
No, it's not legit.
What's your source then? Because that was the only source other than people treating "900p" as a smoking gun when it's just a non-sequitur.
So did Emily delete this? The Link doesn't work and it's gone from her profile.
Does that imply the info is legit after all?
The information in the survey is, by definition, not legit. It is hypothetical.
What's your source then? Because that was the only source other than people treating "900p" as a smoking gun when it's just a non-sequitur.
We called it hypothetical nonsense long time before her source. All what was needed where basic reading comprehension skills.
In fairness, the 900p thing could be just the market researchers putting a question on power to the respondents in a way they think they'll understand. Giving a bunch of specs would get a lot of blank looks (and even the real ones are probably not finalised), but resolution is used as a selling point on TVs, and people are probably more aware of framerate now, after 60fps remasters of TLOU etc and the HFR Hobbit in cinemas. So if you knew the hardware would probably mean that 900p would be standard for a lot of AAA games on there, you could ask how they feel about a console like that.
Doesn't mean they actually do have concrete info on NX though.
Doesn't mean they actually do have concrete info on NX though.
RubberJohnny
Banned
The information in the survey is, by definition, not legit. It is hypothetical.
Source?
We called it hypothetical nonsense long time before her source. All what was needed where basic reading comprehension skills.
This relies on your interpretation of "900p" as a smoking gun proving technical ignorance, when really it could just be a nonsequitur though?
You could look at the fact that they got a number of things wrong about the Wii U. None of us are saying that the survey itself doesn't exist, we're saying that the info that the survey has is purely hypothetical. The fact that it got info on existing systems wrong is plenty of proof for that.Source?
This relies on your interpretation of "900p" as a smoking gun proving technical ignorance, when really it could just be a nonsequitur though?
Source?
Sources are:
- The initial sources (like Emily Rogers)
- NDP_Mulcair user (verified NPD employee)
- Logic
RubberJohnny
Banned
You could look at the fact that they got a number of things wrong about the Wii U. None of us are saying that the survey itself doesn't exist, we're saying that the info that the survey has is purely hypothetical. The fact that it got info on existing systems wrong is plenty of proof for that.
Who? Gfk reported on the Wii U?
I was under the impression the Wii U leaks came from Nintendo switching their supply chain to Foxconn and were generally on the ball, except for people optimitistically thinking it would be more powerful than 360/PS3.
I think the general timing fits with Nintendo finalising their product offering ahead of E3, the fact that such cojoint studies are expensive and that GfK have worked with Nintendo before, and the fact that the device fits with what we know from supply chain rumours and Nintendo patents (combined with Emily Rogers retracting the tweet that says it's not legit) all point that this is funded by Nintendo. There's no solid confirmation, but a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Whereas the evidence that it's debunked seems to rely on
1) a deleted/retracted tweet
2) people once again not wanting to believe that a new Nintendo console isn't more powerful than the competition, and fixating on a small detail to attempt to discredit it.
- NDP_Mulcair user (verified NPD employee)
Could you link this? Searching brings up nothing.
RubberJohnny
Banned
How is this thread still open?
Because the proof for it being debunked was retracted.
Source?
This relies on your interpretation of "900p" as a smoking gun proving technical ignorance, when really it could just be a nonsequitur though?
Twitter user Doctor Cupcakes misslead the public by, purposefully or not, only releasing one sheet of a multiple pages survey. Fellow Gaffers who had some insight in it, like ZhugeEX, could tell they were proposing multiple, contradicting, hypothetical questions.
900p/60 fps never were, never will be specs of a home console. Did you ever own one?
Because the proof for it being debunked was retracted.
You are not a mod and you don't know why it was deleted.
Like I'd understand the 900p thing is the system was capped at that output for some weird reason from a hardware level but the fact that it also lists 4k/60fps video streaming just makes that redundant. Since this was a survey however it could be a way in which to gauge peoples reactions with the hypothetical situation where Nintendo decided to reduce the res of games but kept 60fps and better visuals as a result not unlike the Xbox One. Doesn't mean every game would end up like that. Of course the whole survey is bull but like many Wii U games opting for 720p I could also see some NX games being 900p.
Keep in mind that I'm amongst those who are expecting the NX Console to be weaker than the Xbox One. But if you look at the screenshots from later in the survey, they got a number of things about the Wii U wrong (for example, they claim that Nintendo Network is a subscription service on the Wii U). And even then, they didn't bring up when the NX Handheld would be released, despite the same survey mentioning the NX Handheld.Who? Gfk reported on the Wii U?
I was under the impression the Wii U leaks came from Nintendo switching their supply chain to Foxconn and were generally on the ball, except for people optimitistically thinking it would be more powerful than 360/PS3.
I think the general timing fits with Nintendo finalising their product offering ahead of E3, the fact that such cojoint studies are expensive and that GfK have worked with Nintendo before, and the fact that the device fits with what we know from supply chain rumours and Nintendo patents (combined with Emily Rogers retracting the tweet that says it's not legit) all point that this is funded by Nintendo. There's no solid confirmation, but a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Whereas the evidence that it's debunked seems to rely on
1) a deleted/retracted tweet
2) people once again not wanting to believe that a new Nintendo console isn't more powerful than the competition, and fixating on a small detail to attempt to discredit it.
Could you link this? Searching brings up nothing.
lwilliams3
Member
When was that said?Because the proof for it being debunked was retracted.
Because the proof for it being debunked was retracted.
Must've missed that. Didn't we already establish that GfK is a market research company the that zero ties with Nintendo, and therefore is just as clued up about the NX as us?
NinjaCoachZ
Member
Because the proof for it being debunked was retracted.
It wasn't "retracted". The screencaps of the rest of the survey were asked to be taken down by the GFK. That doesn't suddenly mean this rumour is real. Read NDP_Mulcair's posts.
RubberJohnny
Banned
When was that said?
Emily Rogers retracted/deleted the Tweet that claimed the device detailed in the survey was nothing like the actual NX.
Must've missed that. Didn't we already establish that GfK is a market research company the that zero ties with Nintendo, and therefore is just as clued up about the NX as us?
GfK are the largest market research company in the world, they do market research on behalf of clients and have done market research for Nintendo in the past, you can find demographic surveys they did from the Wii era.
It wasn't "retracted". The screencaps of the rest of the survey were asked to be taken down by the GFK. That doesn't suddenly mean this rumour is real. Read NDP_Mulcair's posts.
The tweet saying they had nothing to do with the actual device was retracted, too.
Please link this NPD_Mulcair post, I want to read it though.
It wasn't "retracted". The screencaps of the rest of the survey were asked to be taken down by the GFK. That doesn't suddenly mean this rumour is real. Read NDP_Mulcair's posts.
Exactly. It means it's a confidential market research survey. If the screenshots go public, the data is skewed.
So much confirmation bias in here.
GfK are the largest market research company in the world, they do market research on behalf of clients and have done market research for Nintendo in the past, you can find demographic surveys they did from the Wii era.
Show me a single piece of evidence that Nintendo have any form of relationship with them, because I've yet to see one in this thread.
Emily Rogers retracted the Tweet that claimed the device detailed in the survey was nothing like the actual NX.
That would be reflective on the source's wishes of privacy and not the validity of the survey.
Exactly. It means it's a confidential market research survey. If the screenshots go public, the data is skewed.
So much confirmation bias in here.
But the supposedly deleted tweet was Emily talking about her own source; why would that be deleted because of screencaps issue?
Here's one of NDP_Mulcair's posts in this thread.
You're jumping to conclusions when you say "the only company who might pay for information is Nintendo."
Nintendo has yet to reveal anything regarding their new product. There are loads of parties vested in Nintendo, including retailers, publishers who are considering the NX but have not yet committed to Nintendo, and institutional corporate investors, who might be interested in how the market responds to various price points and product features. It could very well be that someone other than Nintendo commissioned it.
I have a hard time believing that it was Nintendo because this data would have been useful to Nintendo two years ago, not right now as the Nintendo NX finalizes production with a lot of the key hardware components already set in stone. Presuming they're releasing in Holiday 2016, it's too late to change the fundamental hardware decisions that went into the Nintendo NX. Even if the NX is coming out in 2017, it's still stretching it.
A more likely story is that some other client wanted to test the U.S. market in response to specific price points and hardware features so when Nintendo does make a move they have an idea of how the market would respond or how the general public might react to such news.
Alternatively, there could be multiple clients interested in such data. I wouldn't put it past the GfK Group and their >10,000 employees to commission a detailed study and sell it to multiple organizations as they have done in the past for other video game-related studies.
lwilliams3
Member
Emily Rogers retracted the Tweet that claimed the device detailed in the survey was nothing like the actual NX.
GfK are the largest market research company in the world, they do market research on behalf of clients and have done market research for Nintendo in the past, you can find demographic surveys they did from the Wii era.
The tweet saying they had nothing to do with the actual device was retracted, too.
Please link this NPD_Mulcair post, I want to read it though.
Maybe Amy retracted that statement because it made it sound as if she knew what it is. Did she say something, or did she just deleted a comment?
But the supposedly deleted tweet was Emily talking about her own source; why would that be deleted because of screencaps issue?
It wouldn't. It would be deleted because the source doesn't want that info out there. It's a completely separate issue.
RubberJohnny
Banned
I honestly don't see the point of arguing in circles. This thread is already more-or-less living on borrowed time.
For a thread that's sure it's debunked, it's sure having trouble coming up with arguments why that don't get immediately shot down.
Read NDP_Mulcair's posts (verified NPD employee) why they sheet doesn't contain legit information.
I'm trying to, but search doesn't turn them up, please link them.
Show me a single piece of evidence that Nintendo have any form of relationship with them, because I've yet to see one in this thread.
Here's a Wii survey done by GfK NOP - GfK NOP, formerly NOP World are a custom marketing division of GfK, i.e. they do custom research on behalf of clients.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Here's one of NDP_Mulcair's posts in this thread.
Thankyou, that's not actually debunking anything though, it's him weighing up opinions.
This thread has been very certain it isn't real and is debunked, but there's actually no evidence supporting that viewpoint, only opinion and now deleted "proof".
There's no evidence proving it is real either, but there is circumstantial evidence that makes it possible, even likely.
Here's a Wii survey done by GfK NOP - GfK NOP, formerly NOP World are a custom marketing division of GfK, i.e. they do custom research on behalf of clients.
Firstly, this is a separate division from the one we're discussing. Second, I don't see anything showing this survey was commissioned by Nintendo.
That post is one of many. If you want to see his other posts, check his history like the rest of us. You have the means to do so.Thankyou, that's not actually debunking anything though, it's him weighing up opinions.
This thread has been very certain it isn't real and is debunked, but there's actually no evidence supporting that viewpoint, only opinion.
There's no evidence proving it is real either, but there is circumstantial evidence that makes it possible, even likely.
Thankyou, that's not actually debunking anything though, it's him weighing up opinions.
This thread has been very certain it isn't real and is debunked, but there's actually no evidence supporting that viewpoint, only opinion.
There's no evidence proving it is real either, but there is circumstantial evidence that makes it possible, even likely.
There is no circumstantial evidence for it being real. None. The sheet on its own is evidence enough it is not real. All what it needs is basic technical knowledge and it doesn't help you to handwave that.
It wouldn't. It would be deleted because the source doesn't want that info out there. It's a completely separate issue.
That's one possibility. But if so, it was careless to tell a prominent Nintendo fan who writes loads of articles on them and talks about them on Twitter all the time, without stressing that it was off the record.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Firstly, this is a separate division from the one we're discussing. Second, I don't see anything showing this survey was commissioned by Nintendo.
The division in the survey isn't specified.
A number of news outlets report on GfK being a client of Nintendo - VG247, BusinessInsider, The Express, but then I don't know their source and they could all be reposting newswire articles. NPD_Mulcair mentions Nintendo get information from GfK.
That post is one of many. If you want to see his other posts, check his history like the rest of us. You have the means to do so.
I did yeah, but it seems his main source of information was Emily Rogers who retracted her information.
He seems to think it's taking information on changing the design of the console, rather than just pricepoints and value of online subscriptions, which are what the slides are actually about.
The division in the survey isn't specified.
A number of news outlets report on GfK being a client of Nintendo, but then I don't know their source.
The original threadtitle is their source. The source for the threadtitle and OP was Twitteruser Doctor Cupcakes.
You specified the division in your post: GfK NOP. The survey this thread is discussing is not from that arm.The division in the survey isn't specified.
A number of news outlets report on GfK being a client of Nintendo - VG247, BusinessInsider, The Express, but then I don't know their source and they could all be reposting newswire articles.
Can you drop any links proving that GfK have a working relationship with Nintendo?
You specified the division in your post: GfK NOP. The survey this thread is discussing is not from that arm.
Can you drop any links proving that GfK have a working relationship with Nintendo?
Having a working relationship would prove nothing, one way or another.
The information in the survey doesn't make sense, Nintendo asking based on the wrong information now doesn't make sense.
Having a working relationship would prove nothing, one way or another.
The information in the survey doesn't make sense, Nintendo asking based on the wrong information now doesn't make sense.
I know, it's just some people think this is the leaking of "confidential information" and I'm trying to prove that GfK aren't remotely privy to anything of the sort.
RubberJohnny
Banned
You specified the division in your post: GfK NOP. The survey this thread is discussing is not from that arm.
It doesn't say what arm it's from, it just says "GfK", so we have no way of knowing. It's clearly been done for the US market because the numbers are in dollars, and Gfk NOP is the main US division of Gfk.
Can you drop any links proving that GfK have a working relationship with Nintendo?
NPD_Mulcair says that Nintendo get their data from GfK. Other posters also talk of it being an expensive conjoint analysis clearly done for a US customer, as is noted here and here
NPD_Mulcair says that Nintendo get their data from GfK.
Of course they get information from GfK because GfK owns Chart-Track which is where they get sales info for the UK.
NPD_Mulcair says that Nintendo get their data from GfK. Other posters also talk of it being an expensive conjoint analysis clearly done for a US customer, as is noted here
Yeah, so do we but we don't have a working relationship with them.
I know, it's just some people think this is the leaking of "confidential information" and I'm trying to prove that GfK aren't remotely privy to anything of the sort.
Nintendo would not give confidential information to GfK. Thats all what its need to be said regarding working relationship.
RubberJohnny
Banned
My argument isn't it's certain it's from Nintendo, just that it's not debunked. It could be or could not be.
We can't prove a relationship or no relationship to GfK. Such things are confidential unless they're made into a case study for a marketing publication.
People saying some of the technical details are off disprove it because of "logic", but having worked with a sales team, technical details are frequently off, and it's not like Nintendos sales team are a paragon of excellence - they couldn't get people to realise the Wii U isn't an accessory for the Wii.
We can't prove a relationship or no relationship to GfK. Such things are confidential unless they're made into a case study for a marketing publication.
People saying some of the technical details are off disprove it because of "logic", but having worked with a sales team, technical details are frequently off, and it's not like Nintendos sales team are a paragon of excellence - they couldn't get people to realise the Wii U isn't an accessory for the Wii.
2) people once again not wanting to believe that a new Nintendo console isn't more powerful than the competition, and fixating on a small detail to attempt to discredit it.
It's not wether or not the NX will have games rendering at 900p (and for what it's worth 900p60fps would indicate something more powerful than PS4). It's about how ridiculous it would be for that number to appear on any document or statement from Nintendo, or from anyone with any technical knowledge at this point.
It's not a console spec, it's a design choice/compromise some developers make.
One might today say that Xbox one is a 900p machine, though it would be an extreme oversimplification. But you could not have said that in January 2013, and you're not going to hear MS say that. As far as they're concerned the console outputs 1080p and that's that. Reggie said in they'd 'checked that box' when the WiiU was announced, even tough only a handfull games render at 1080p. The internal rendering resolution for a game is something that comes up in digital foundry articles and pixel counting thread; or possibly in the rare case where a programmer gets interviewed by a somewhat tech savvy journalist. It's not really something the general audience knows anything about and it's certainly not something you can put as a bullet point for an unreleased console.
Someone could maybe look at the full specs and make a guess that many games will run at 900p, but if you have enough technical knowledge to make a reasonably educated guess, you'd also know how ridiculous it would be to present that as fact.
The only way the number makes sense to appear in the survey is that it's made up from someone with no technical knowledge who's seen some online discussions about xbox one and ps4 mentioning 900p.
My argument isn't it's certain it's from Nintendo, just that it's not debunked. It could be or could not be.
We can't prove a relationship or no relationship to GfK. Such things are confidential unless they're made into a case study for a marketing publication.
People saying some of the technical details are off disprove it because of "logic", but having worked with a sales team, technical details are frequently off, and it's not like Nintendos sales team are a paragon of excellence - they couldn't get people to realise the Wii U isn't an accessory for the Wii.
Now you are just desperately grasping for straws.
In which world would it make sense that Nintendo give precise information about NX to GfK, even clearly labelled as NX.
In which world would it make sense that anyone would do it?
And in which world would 900p/60 fps be the specs of a home console? Did you ever own a home console?
RubberJohnny
Banned
In which world would it make sense that Nintendo give precise information about NX to GfK, even clearly labelled as NX.
In which world would it make sense that anyone would do it?
You don't think Nintendo does any market research? They would have to give info to get an accurate picture, especially if they were working with third-party companies.
You don't think Nintendo does any market research? They would have to give info to get an accurate picture, especially if they were working with third-party companies.
Makes you wonder why the sheet is not accurate, doesn't it?
cartographer
Member
It's like watching somebody walk into a wall over and over again while insisting there is evidence that the wall is in fact a door.
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