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[A Link to the Past]

people have been accused, banned, pushed and forced out, refused service, jailed, even killed for hundreds of years.

there is nothing to look for, the only solution is for the oppressors to stop being racist. anything else is just a band-aid for a cancer of sorts.

Jeez, didn't you listen to what he said? You're just imagining everything! You just need to try harder is all

 

[mcarlie]

Racism is a structure where white people is at the top of the hierarchy thus when viewing racism as a structure there can be no racism to white people.

When we establish that this person is viewing racism as a structure you'll have a point. Until then you're equivocating.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Well thank god they're trying. Can't wait for the "Why are they forcing the Academy to XYZ!" backlash. :/



It's not unreasonable for black actors to advocate for themselves, just like it's not unreasonable for female actors like Patty Ariquette to advocate for women, though. However, a lot of people in the white population internalize a classic narrative that "the blacks are the uppity ones", "always complaining", "nothing's ever good enough", "every other minority is cool with the way things are except for them" etc.It's an old narrative that gets pushed laid quite a bit on black people usually coupled with the idea that "we're always loud". Despite minority representation crossing race, gender, sexuality and even including stuff like representation of the disabled, when complaints of a lack of diversity come up, a lot of people in the majority are already quick to put it on just the black population. Media wise, black vs. white narrative is sold a lot too. There are several gay, Asian, Hispanic, trans etc. who completely agree with the extreme lack of diversity but their voices aren't presented to the public as often so it always seems like it's just the black actors again getting all worked up and going after whites.

This is exactly what I'm trying to touch on, and I think the media should be called out for it, on a large stage, b/c there are obvious tactics at hand for doing so. Fixing the narrative, packaging and selling it a certain way, essentially making people who should be working together splinter or grow indifferent towards one another, tuning out any voices that don't fit a particular requirement to amplify the tension.

It reminds me, for example, of the '91 Watts riots. You had a lot of blacks and Koreans actually communicating with each other to try and improve the situation, but the media essentially did their best to frame it as them being in opposition. And it worked in the end. These are all still minority groups by the definition at the end of the day, and it would make better sense to attempt framing the discussion in the framework of unity by even reiterating on that unity at every available opportunity. Combined with the presence of social media that gives more avenues for messages not getting censored or edited to play into a given context.

I'm not saying it's a white thing or it's all the media; however, to be oblivious to it being a hidden factor at play in these kind of situations is a dangerous mistake, and minorities should try preempting the narrative from being framed in that fashion as much and as often as possible. The more prominent and vocal they are, the better.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Nice try but no?

Nice reply but yes.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

Racism is a structure where white people is at the top of the hierarchy thus when viewing racism as a structure there can be no racism to white people.

.

There is no such a thing as inverted racism, period.

Okay hold up. Racism means being biased/judgemental/assuming of a specific race or races. There's nothing about the word racism that implies a structure or hierarchy of races, all the races are equal so everyone can be judged equally. This means that while white people can be racist towards another race, at the same time any other race can be equally as racist to any other race. I have no idea where you are getting your information.

racism != bigotry/prejudice

Yes it does, that's almost exactly what it means. From Marriam-Webster:

a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

the belief that race is the primary determinant means that an individual of one race is being bigoted or prejudiced towards another.

Just because one social group (in this case it being the white people) is more represented and more populous than other races in America does not mean that another race of people are in any way incapable of being racist.

 

[number47]

Jeez, didn't you listen to what he said? You're just imagining everything! You just need to try harder is all

Not everything. Just his paranoia.

 

[Dimmle]

Okay hold up. Racism means being biased/judgemental/assuming of a specific race or races. There's nothing about the word racism that implies a structure or hierarchy of races, all the races are equal so everyone can be judged equally. This means that while white people can be racist towards another race, at the same time any other race can be equally as racist to any other race. I have no idea where you are getting your information.

That definition, for institutional racism, was actually taught in my literary criticism class.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

That definition, for institutional racism, was actually taught in my literary criticism class.

Is that a good or a bad thing? I've never taken literary criticism

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Again, why is this strictly a black thing? Before you lob accusations at me, hear me out.

The interviewer, this woman whoever she is (don't care for them as an actress honestly), people in general...why is it whenever this topic comes up, or terms like "minority" and "PoC" are used, automatically assume that to mean "black people"? Do people realize how that drives away other disenfranchised groups to the majority, and essentially makes the issue even more unbalanced and disproportionate than it already is?

It smells like a sneaky tactic on the media's part; by implicitly twisting the definitions to single out a very particular group, they essentially draw other potential allies of that group in their camp through process of fixing the narrative and making that targeted group essentially iterate on the issue from a PoV the manipulating side wishes it to be addressed from.

I think one of the things black actors and advocates need to do to circumvent this fixed rigging of the narrative is continue to emphasize how this issue is something shared by all minorities. They essentially need to reshape the narrative, because going by quotes like this lady said, it is rigged against their potential best interest.

When you uplift black folks, you lift up the other minorities by default. Black folks are very vocal, we've had to take what was ours since the beginning. As someone who sees how my plight intersects with other people of color and women,I try my best to stay in my own fucking lane. That's what it is to be an ally sometimes. Like I see and recognize how underrepresented Asians are, I'll cape for them. But I won't speak FOR them.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

And that's racist because. . .

Too many of you are arguing your point as if the antecedent has already been conceded.

Care to share what performances from white actors/actresses you felt were the best over the past two years, and compare them with what you consider the best performances from non-white actors/actresses over the same two-year period, and objectively qualify why you feel the former were better than the latter?

You likely cannot. I've never ran into one of your sort who can. You're more transparent than air.

When you uplift black folks, you lift up the other minorities by default. Black folks are very vocal, we've had to take what was ours since the beginning. As someone who sees how my plight intersects with other people of color and women,I try my best to stay in my own fucking lane. That's what it is to be an ally sometimes. Like I see and recognize how underrepresented Asians are, I'll cape for them. But I won't speak FOR them.

I think you can speak for them in an abstract sense, in a best-interests sense. B/c the truth is disenfranchised groups should maybe be more vocal about that in order to prevent the narrative from being skewed for the majority of the audience, given the majority are not going to be very sharp/wise to see beyond the basics on this sort of thing without being explicitly shown or told. You can see that already in posters like ANDS and whoever has that The World Ends With You avatar.

Some of what you're saying makes it sound like you're soldiering the fight on your own. I'm not even saying it doesn't have to be that (although imho, it doesn't, and deep down within certain sub-pockets it isn't); I'm saying that's the environment a lot of the media want to frame it as for the benefit of those in power, b/c it inevitably makes the fight harder from your POV and even by producing indifference among potential allies, that gives manipulative media, political and financial forces silent allies.

 

[Dimmle]

Is that a good or a bad thing? I've never taken literary criticism

It's a fine definition for institutional racism but obviously there are problems with equating the two (institutional racism and racism) as a lot of people have pointed out.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

It's a fine definition for institutional racism but obviously there are problems with equating the two (institutional racism and racism) as a lot of people have pointed out.

Is the difference not just that institutionalized racism is racist actions taken by an institution while racism is racist actions done by an individual?

How do you define racism? Because it seems that yours may differ from mine.

There is no way for a white person on a white majority (rule and/or population) nation to experience racism.

Prejudice yes, racism, the institutional structure of oppression, no.

There is most certainly a way, having someone be prejudiced towards you because of your race is basically the definition of racism, institutionalized or otherwise. Racism causes oppression to whomever it is directed at, even if the oppression is not so obvious as a group being unfairly excluded from certain awards the oppression is still there regardless.

 

[bengraven]

I do have to say that we need to first get more black actors in great roles.

 

[Messofanego]

Very disappointing to hear especially after 45 Years being so great.

They're in the Academy voter age range, so if these kind of opinions were generalised to the rest of the voters in the acting and directing categories, it's no surprise how white the Oscars have been.

 

[Replicant]

Racism is a structure where white people is at the top of the hierarchy thus when viewing racism as a structure there can be no racism to white people.

This is really misguided. What you described is an institutionalised racism, which differs from country to country.

Go to Indonesia and see how they treat black people there. You'd think that being brown they'll be nicer to you? Wrong. At best, they'll point and stare at you or call you names. At worse, there are many different ways people over there can treat race that they do not like.

I've been to Japan and was told that my white friends couldn't come to a bar because they're white. That's racism. I've also seen Chinese people in Singapore moving away when they sit next to an Indian. That is racism.

Racism is where you treat others differently because of their race. Or where you end up feeling harassed or uncomfortable because you've been singled out purely because you are of specific race. The perpetrator is not limited to white people.

 

[Cipherr]

Please don't give attention to people saying dumb crap like "it's not possible to be racist against white people" that is just stupid. Its not worth ANY of our time to engage that bs.

 

[neojubei]

Everyone forgets the Asians.

Not me

 

[Dimmle]

Is the difference not just that institutionalized racism is racist actions taken by an institution while racism is racist actions done by an individual?

How do you define racism? Because it seems that yours may differ from mine.

I guess I'd consider it infringing on another's rights, privileges, or opportunities because of their race.

Institutional racism assumes that we have institutions with systems that implicitly favor one group over others. That's not really a controversial stance, right? I'm not debating any of your points, just thought I'd point out that the definition in question is not completely unheard of.

 

[Bearjewpiter]

I guess I'd consider it infringing on another's rights, privileges, or opportunities because of their race.

Institutional racism assumes that we have institutions with systems that implicitly favor one group over others. That's not really a controversial stance, right? I'm not debating any of your points, just thought I'd point out that the definition in question is not completely unheard of.

No I don't think that's controversial, I just think that the two don't need to be thought of as such different ideas. As I said, institutional racism is a real issue and of course it happens but it is not specific to some races and not allowed to be done to others, any race can be discriminated in this way by any other race. And I'm not trying to start a big debate or anything I just want to understand where people are coming from since there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy about the definitions

 

[Dimmle]

No I don't think that's controversial, I just think that the two don't need to be thought of as such different ideas. As I said, institutional racism is a real issue and of course it happens but it is not specific to some races and not allowed to be done to others, any race can be discriminated in this way by any other race. And I'm not trying to start a big debate or anything I just want to understand where people are coming from since there seems to be a bit of a discrepancy about the definitions

We agree. I do think that the institution being discussed, the Academy, is skewed white. In this particular situation, there's no way this lady is on the receiving end of racism. That's what I was trying to say with my first post but I definitely did not communicate the idea very well.

 

[ISOM]

I never thought I'd see an actor from England use the anti racist is code for anti white argument.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Not everything. Just his paranoia.

Why is he paranoid?

 

[Moosichu]

Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.

Relevant as always.

 

[TyrantII]

They're not wrong, but they're coming from a point of deep ignorance for why there's a lack of those performances coming from Hollywood. Change the view in Hollywood and the Oscars will follow.

 

[Aztechnology]

People conflate racism with prejudice all the time.

Racism:

1
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2
: racial prejudice or discrimination

Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you meant.

This is really misguided. What you described is an institutionalised racism, which differs from country to country.

Go to Indonesia and see how they treat black people there. You'd think that being brown they'll be nicer to you? Wrong. At best, they'll point and stare at you or call you names. At worse, there are many different ways people over there can treat race that they do not like.

I've been to Japan and was told that my white friends couldn't come to a bar because they're white. That's racism. I've also seen Chinese people in Singapore moving away when they sit next to an Indian. That is racism.

Racism is where you treat others differently because of their race. Or where you end up feeling harassed or uncomfortable because you've been singled out purely because you are of specific race. The perpetrator is not limited to white people.

.

 

[Messofanego]

I never thought I'd see an actor from England use the anti racist is code for anti white argument.

Always worth a laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gmuGFwlHsA

 

[excelsiorlef]

"Last night, the board of Governors made a series of courageous steps."

That's some Oscar-worthy self-congratulation.

Holy fuck that's a gross way to word their decision

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Oscars are a lost cause, let the crypt keepers have their parade

 

[Coffee Dog]

Whites ITT breaking out their dictionaries to prove that they, too, are totally victims should flip back a few pages and look up empathy

Racism against whites is a fantasy scenario, institutionalized racism is something that affects minorities every damn day

 

[anaron]

holy shit at her and Michael Caine


Someone on twitter said this is a widely held opinion within the academy, too.

Stupid assholes.

 

[MHWilliams]

Backtracking.

Rampling, 69, regrets that her comments “could have been misinterpreted,” she said in a statement to CBS News’ Sunday Morning. “I simply meant to say that in an ideal world every performance will be given equal opportunities for consideration. I am very honored to be included in this year’s wonderful group of nominated actors and actresses.”

 

[Sky Saw]

Racism against whites is a fantasy scenario

Ignorance.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Backtracking.

Not so much backtracking as reaching for a statue that's been pulled off a table.

Although, honestly - voting hasn't occurred yet. She might a couple petty pity votes for "speaking what's on her mind"

 

[The Kree]

Backtracking.

The clueless love talking about ideal worlds. They forget that White people already live in the ideal world and Black people don't.

 

[MHWilliams]

Not so much backtracking as reaching for a statue that's been pulled off a table.

Although, honestly - voting hasn't occurred yet. She might a couple petty pity votes for "speaking what's on her mind"

Voting is anonymous. I could see here comments helping more than hurting.

 

[NumberTwo]

And another one:

http://www.thewrap.com/julie-delpy-hollywood-dumps-women-sometimes-wish-african-american/

Julie Delpy Says Hollywood Dumps on Women Most: ‘I Sometimes Wish I Were African American’

Sundance 2016: “Nothing worse than being a woman in this business,” actress says at TheWrap’s interview studio

Frustration over Hollywood’s diversity debate bubbled over at the Sundance Film Festival on Friday, as actress and writer Julie Delpy said she felt muzzled by the industry and added that there’s “nothing worse than being a woman in this business.”

Delpy, who was Oscar-nominated as a writer both for “Before Midnight” and “Before Sunset,” said that she said she has raised the issue of how few women were members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, and was shut down.

“Two years ago, I said something about the Academy being very white male, which is the reality, and I was slashed to pieces by the media,” she told TheWrap’s Jeff Sneider. “It’s funny — women can’t talk. I sometimes wish I were African American because people don’t bash them afterward.”

She went on: “It’s the hardest to be a woman. Feminists is something people hate above all. Nothing worse than being a woman in this business. I really believe that.”
Delpy appeared at TheWrap’s interview studio at Sundance on Friday to promote a new Todd Solondoz film “Weiner Dog” along with co-stars Danny DeVito and Kieran Culkin.

DeVito was similarly harsh in his assessment of Hollywood — and the rest of the United States. “It’s unfortunate that we’re xenophobic, it’s unfortunate that women make 30 percent less than men in various times,” he said. “I just found out happens in the film business. women are hired for less money than men.”
Behind the scenes, Delpy said she was frustrated at having trouble getting her movies made.

Not like this, Julie. Intersectionality continues to be ignored by a lot of [white] feminists in Hollywood. Women of color catch it from all sides. Video here.

 

[LaserBuddha]

There is no institutionalized/systemic racism against white people. There are no structures of power that unfairly discriminate against white people. I think some people stating this in the thread are being deliberately reductive in stating it as "racism against white people is impossible/doesn't exist" which is demonstrably false. I don't know why they are doing this except to bait people into an argument who don't understand the difference.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Poor Michael Caine. I hope I have the good sense to keep my mouth shut when I'm 82 and a subject comes up I obviously haven't thought about in 40 years.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

How long has Danny DeVito been producing movies and he only just today found out women get paid less?

He better hope nobody who's worked with Jersey Films starts quoting numbers.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Not me

lol..Love you, brother.

 

[Suikoguy]

Poor Michael Caine. I hope I have the good sense to keep my mouth shut when I'm 82 and a subject comes up I obviously haven't thought about in 40 years.

It's not as bad as the OP or Julie Delpy.

Voting for someone just due to their skin color is wrong, but it ignores those who were ignored this year that deserved at least a nomination.
Asking minorities to wait is also shit, since it's 2016. But it's also ironic since the changes announced by the academy will take some time to start seeing any changes.

He also for some reason tought Idris Elba was nominated.

It was basically diet racism, versus blatant racism.

 

[injurai]

Whites ITT breaking out their dictionaries to prove that they, too, are totally victims should flip back a few pages and look up empathy

Racism against whites is a fantasy scenario, institutionalized racism is something that affects minorities every damn day

Yes, it's very important to communicate to white people that white's simply don't suffer institutionalized and systematic racism. That doesn't equate to moving the goalposts by pigeonholing the word "racism" to a singular semantic definition. Racist sentiments and rhetoric can't be displayed towards whites. Minorities can be racist towards whites, even though they lack the power to institutionalize that prejudice.

Playing a semantic hard to get game, is simply just being difficult and it impedes dialog with people who are very willing to come to the table and talk about the issues surrounding racism.

Lest we forget the whole linguistic device of the "-ism." It's used to denote an ideology. It's all about a held belief. Racism is an ideological belief that justifies prejudice, supremacy, and disparagement towards those of another race. At some point ignoring this becomes a conscious decision, and you have to ask yourself what is the actual benefit in doing so.

 

[freeofgreed]

And another one:

http://www.thewrap.com/julie-delpy-hollywood-dumps-women-sometimes-wish-african-american/



Not like this, Julie. Intersectionality continues to be ignored by a lot of [white] feminists in Hollywood. Women of color catch it from all sides. Video here.

The fuck is with French women today?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It's not as bad as the OP or Julie Delpy.

Voting for someone just due to their skin color is wrong, but it ignores those who were ignored this year that deserved at least a nomination.
Asking minorities to wait is also shit, since it's 2016. But it's also ironic since the changes announced by the academy will take some time to start seeing any changes.

He also for some reason tought Idris Elba was nominated.

It was basically diet racism, versus blatant racism.

I guess I just kinda expected this to be a subject someone would have a bit more mature perspective on after being married to a minority woman for decades.

 

[harSon]

It's funny how seemingly rational people turn into asshats the second you suggest that their status is potentially contributed to by some type of privilege.

 

[Slayven]

Backtracking.

Same sorry but not sorry bullshit

And another one:

http://www.thewrap.com/julie-delpy-hollywood-dumps-women-sometimes-wish-african-american/



Not like this, Julie. Intersectionality continues to be ignored by a lot of [white] feminists in Hollywood. Women of color catch it from all sides. Video here.

If she was black, damn near only work she would get is being painted green or a voice for cgi

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The fuck is with French women today?

pls let nobody ask Juliette Binoche what she thinks of this whole business

I can't take this all these great actresses saying this shit

 

[Suikoguy]

I guess I just kinda expected this to be a subject someone would have a bit more mature perspective on after being married to a minority woman for decades.

Oh, that's something I did not consider. I guess they are not mutually exclusive.

The angle at which he approached it at least showed a level of sympathy versus some of the other bullshit.

 

[NumberTwo]

The fuck is with French women today?

I know right? I like French women! And these are terrific actresses. It just goes to show you how ignorant and unaware of their privilege they are.

This isn't a contest. You can be a white woman and speak about your own struggles as a woman without shitting on minorities. It's okay.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

The fuck is with French women today?

Diversity is ruining their motherland..