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Digital Foundry Performance Analysis: The Division beta (PS4 Vs. Xbox One)

i honestly think 360 was better hardware then the ps3. yea ps3 had a few better exclusives, but 360 wasn't that far off behind, gears of war 3, halo 4, forza horizon, and red dead redemption, were right up there with them, uncharted 3, was the one that out shined them all to me, but then again sony devs are just better at making amazing graphics.
 

LKSmash

Member
every time it ends up arguing over how many more pixels has a version instead of the other, but what really matters is that the game is finally a good product of Ubisoft, that all this waiting was not in vain and that I expect dozens and dozens of hours of fun with my friends.

IMHO

giphy.gif
 

greenegt

Member
I think it's time for Sony to force a NO PARITY clause to developers. It'll be easy to enforce due to the bigger marketshare.

Not unless Sony is footing the bill for the extra dev time. 3rd-party publishers are not going to spend extra money to make sure PS4 games are "40% better" than the XB1 versions. Likewise, they are not going to spend extra money to squeeze more performance out of the XB1's architecture. They set a budget and a baseline and they get the versions to run as well as possible within that envelope.
 

nib95

Banned
i honestly think 360 was better hardware then the ps3. yea ps3 had a few better exclusives, but 360 wasn't that far off behind, gears of war 3, halo 4, forza horizon, and red dead redemption, were right up there with them, uncharted 3, was the one that out shined them all to me, but then again sony devs are just better at making amazing graphics.

360 had the better GPU and was easier to develop for due to the more efficient architecture, the PS3 however had the far superior CPU, and as a result had a higher overall flop count (GPU+CPU) than the 360, though naturally that doesn't tell the full story. With the PS4 that performance gulf is extended in a bigger way, where the PS4 has the better GPU by an appreciable margin, and near enough the same CPU, it also happens to have the superior architecture and is easier to develop for. It's one of the reasons it's a bit more surprising when certain multi platform games are so similar in visual parity or performance. Having said that, I don't think it's necessarily the norm with some of the bigger titles (Witcher 3, Arkham Knight, COD, Battlefront, MGSV etc all show otherwise). Ubisoft in particular seem to gravitate more towards it.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yeah, that would be real popular. So you want Sony to return to 2005 Sony in terms of attitude and doing business?

Playing devil's advocate here, but imagine if developers started doing similar parity between graphics cards on the PC. People who buy the more powerful tech expect to have better performance with access to more bells and whistles. Why is it not okay for those to expect the same treatment with the more powerful tech in the console arena?

We see PC gamers lose their shit when some of those Japanese developers just port a console game and have everything locked down with shades of parity. Devs are crucified for not putting in the "extra effort" to take more advantage of higher specs outside of just a smoother experience.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Playing devil's advocate here, but imagine if developers started doing similar parity between graphics cards on the PC. People who buy the more powerful tech expect to have better performance with access to more bells and whistles. Why is it not okay for those to expect the same treatment with the more powerful tech in the console arena?

We see PC gamers lose their shit when some of those Japanese developers just port a console game and have everything locked down with shades of parity. Devs are crucified for not putting in the "extra effort" to take more advantage of higher specs outside of just a smoother experience.
...The Division is the game of this topic and PS4 users are getting a better experience. There is not actually parity there.
 

EvB

Member
...The Division is the game of this topic and PS4 users are getting a better experience. There is not actually parity there.

Ps4 has 6.6% more FPS doesn't sound quite as impressive as the numbers from glory days of PS4 supremacy
 

SwolBro

Banned
everything will be bought for the x1 from now on since there's little to no differences anymore.

Elite controller. All day.
 

onQ123

Member
I think a key difference is that Sony actually convinced people last gen that the PS3 was the more powerful system. Every time an inferior port came out it was because the developers didn't take advantage of the system, not because the system architecture was a piece of crap. Microsoft tried to do the same this generation even here on GAF but of course nobody bought it.

PS3 is more powerful than 360 & it had blu-ray & built-in harddrive for every console. making a cross platform game mostly meant throwing the PS3 advantages away.

Now it's not as bad because the consoles are a lot alike when it come to the bare bone parts & devs should still be able to take advantage of PS4 advantages even when the game is made for the Xbox One because they are a lot a like but PS4 is more powerful.
 
360 had the better GPU and was easier to develop for due to the more efficient architecture, the PS3 however had the far superior CPU, and as a result had a higher overall flop count (GPU+CPU) than the 360, though naturally that doesn't tell the full story. With the PS4 that performance gulf is extended in a bigger way, where the PS4 has the better GPU by an appreciable margin, and near enough the same CPU, it also happens to have the superior architecture and is easier to develop for. It's one of the reasons it's a bit more surprising when certain multi platform games are so similar in visual parity or performance. Having said that, I don't think it's necessarily the norm with some of the bigger titles (Witcher 3, Arkham Knight, COD, Battlefront, MGSV etc all show otherwise). Ubisoft in particular seem to gravitate more towards it.

oh i agree with you, it's not the norm at all, most graphically demanding games due show the golf in power in favor of the ps4. as for ubi, i'm actually kinda almost convinced there putting way more effort in the xbox1 version.

...The Division is the game of this topic and PS4 users are getting a better experience. There is not actually parity there.

ps4 is slightly better. only a person who is extremely sensitive to fps drops, will notice, if this was a ps3 port in 360/ps3 era this would be considered a great port for ps3.

PS3 is more powerful than 360 & it had blu-ray & built-in harddrive for every console. making a cross platform game mostly meant throwing the PS3 advantages away.ade for the Xbox One because they are a lot a like but PS4 is more powerful.

honestly would not call the ps3 more powerful, if owned both consoles, you get the better experience on 360 with most games, if you can't run most games better, you don't deserve the more powerful hardware title.
 

Tagyhag

Member
every time it ends up arguing over how many more pixels has a version instead of the other, but what really matters is that the game is finally a good product of Ubisoft, that all this waiting was not in vain and that I expect dozens and dozens of hours of fun with my friends.

IMHO

Well...This is a performance analysis thread.

Either way, sure people have gotten to play the game. But we don't actually have the retail release.

Let's wait until the game actually launches before we cast our judgment. Because if Destiny is anything to go by, there is such a thing as not enough content.
 

MrBenchmark

Member
everything will be bought for the x1 from now on since there's little to no differences anymore.

Elite controller. All day.

Honestly for me it's this and the fact I'm tired of replacing DS4 R2 and L2 buttons every few months. I can not complain about this enough.

I didn't get to play the Division yet but I'm glad performance looks good still waiting to get to see how it pans out. I hope It's good.
 

Theorry

Member
every time it ends up arguing over how many more pixels has a version instead of the other, but what really matters is that the game is finally a good product of Ubisoft, that all this waiting was not in vain and that I expect dozens and dozens of hours of fun with my friends.

IMHO

True. Like i also said earlier in the thread. That i am more happy with that it looks like a solid engine. Looks already good, 1080p on both consoles and the performance is nice. And that for the first game with it. That is good stuff for the future.
 

thelastword

Banned
Are people really suggesting that the PS3 got bad multiplats, only because it was harder to develop for than the 360? The notion that more time was spent on the PS3 developing games is far from the truth in typical scenarios last gen, some devs did not even try. The devs who did though, were able to pull equal to better performance on the PS3, like the prototype devs, rockstar after GTA4 and RDR, Criterion, Dice, Ubisoft reflections etc....

There is no doubt that the 360 was the priority system, in quite a few cases a few grade b guys were responsible for the PS3 port, hence why we had some awful ports. Of course the architecture contributed, but it was hardly the biggest contributor. Valve spoke some smack about PS3 but when it came to brass tax they still put out a superior product on the PS3 as opposed to the 360 and these guys are all about directx code.

Can somebody really look at tripe ports like Splinter Cell D.A, Bayonetta, F.E.A.R, Early days Madden and tell me that it was because the PS3 was hard to work with and could not do much better? These devs did not even try, the PS3 efforts were backburner ports because 360 was clearly the priority in those early years. How can anyone use these ports as arguments I won't know......

What's been happening this gen is far different though, we have awful ports like RE-R2, 1080p on both... worse performance on the PS4 (the more powerful system. 360 and PS3 were much closer in power than this gen (all considered) and you never had such things happening with 360 efforts, you had the complete opposite if anything as highlighted above...and no...nobody is asking that XB1's ports be downright awful as those PS3 ports were....Nobody is calling lower resolution with half the framerate type efforts???? on the XB1, I'm calling these ports "efforts" sarcastically because truly these PS3 ports were not deserving of the term efforts at all. In the same way, if gamers see some blatant misgivings about (efforts) like RE-R2 (PS4) we can call it awful and even worse because that system is much more powerful than the XB1 as opposed to slimmer differences last gen.

The 360 Xenos can't even dream to hold a GPU advantage over the RSX as large as the GPU advantage the PS4 has over the XB1. At least the PS3 had the cell to help with it's weaker GPU to balance things off, what does the XB1 have to do so? the cloud?. Such huge disparity in SC.D.A, Bayonetta and all these games had nothing to do with the PS3's architecture, in the same way RE-R2's performance has nothing to do with the PS4's architecture. It's even worse here because too many titles are being released with dubious performance and asset detail on more powerful hardware. RE-R2, Unity, Witcher 3 were all blatant pieces of code, and these are clearly "we don't give a f type scenarios". Scenarios like the division is also bad because it sets a bad precedent, since no XB1 at similar rez to the PS4 should have close performance or similar asset detail, something is clearly being left on the table here.

PS4 owners simply want better ports because pretty much every 1080p vs 900p multiplat favors the PS4 in rez and framerate, we've seen titles like Project Cars hold a 15-20fps advantage over the XB1 in certain frametests and it's at 1080p to 900p rez, a good driving simulator with lots of A.I and physyx which tasks the CPU. We've had games like TRDE which was closer to 60fps on PS4 as opposed to the 30fps with dips below that on the XB1. Nobody is pretending the PS4 should run the division at 4k here, we simply want better use made of the hardware....., hell, the division is running closer to the PS4 in asset detail and framerate than pretty much all games at 1080p vs 900p on the XB1 (where the latter should give a boost to the XB1 in framrerate)....1080p on both and they're so close...? Leaving all that performance on the table in not ideal either.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Why are people so obsessed with this stuff? Both PS4 and XB1 turn in respectable numbers, why does it have to be that PS4 automatically gets better everything?

They hit their base target of solid 30fps and 1080p at a specific graphical level for both console SKUs. That's a GOOD THING
 

Intrigue

Banned
Why are people so obsessed with this stuff? Both PS4 and XB1 turn in respectable numbers, why does it have to be that PS4 automatically gets better everything?

They hit their base target of solid 30fps and 1080p at a specific graphical level for both console SKUs. That's a GOOD THING

It is, but not the way its achieved, why hold back 1 platform?

Ubisoft is like the only ones pushing for it.

With this thinking, I should soon expect my PC version of the games to look like they do on consoles, thanks but no thanks.

Also to think back to PS360 era, where was the outcry for parity back then?
 

nib95

Banned
Why are people so obsessed with this stuff? Both PS4 and XB1 turn in respectable numbers, why does it have to be that PS4 automatically gets better everything?

They hit their base target of solid 30fps and 1080p at a specific graphical level for both console SKUs. That's a GOOD THING

Do you really not understand the logic behind it? It's the same reason people who game on PC's expect better visuals and performance to the console counterparts, or the same reason Xbox One owners would expect better multi platform visuals or performance comparative to a Wii U or 360 version. The better the hardware, the more you expect a game to take advantage of it. Here the frame rate is perhaps 6%+ or so better on the PS4 version of the game, yet the hardware differences are well beyond that. You also see other developers and big games making much better use of the additional hardware resources, and question why Ubisoft isn't, or can't do the same. I can't imagine a few additional bells and whistles would be particularly hard to implement given the performance headroom.

On a side note, if the Xbox One version runs at the same resolution as the PS4 version, and uses the same AA solution, why is it slightly blurrier in certain shots? Have DF missed something? Dynamic resolution? A different type of AA solution with the Xbox One version? Something else?
 
Why are people so obsessed with this stuff? Both PS4 and XB1 turn in respectable numbers, why does it have to be that PS4 automatically gets better everything?

They hit their base target of solid 30fps and 1080p at a specific graphical level for both console SKUs. That's a GOOD THING

it doesn't but in game like this which was suppose one of the most impressive games this gen on consoles, there simply not taking full advantage of ps4 hardware, like they are with xb1, other wise they would have to lower the xb1 resolution to 900p just to get solid frame rate like they are now with the xb1 version.
 
On a side note, if the Xbox One version runs at the same resolution as the PS4 version, and uses the same AA solution, why is it slightly blurrier in certain shots? Have DF missed something? Dynamic resolution? A different type of AA solution with the Xbox One version? Something else?

Perhaps different default sharpening settings between the two or non-equalised sharpening settings.
 

nib95

Banned
Perhaps different default sharpening settings between the two or non-equalised sharpening settings.

Appreciate the response. I wonder if DF will elaborate, and I wonder if the same difference will even remain come the final retail releases.
 

thelastword

Banned
People simply miss the days when devs use to push every piece of hardware as best as they could, no stop at this point because we have done enough. We need more "there's still time, let's push things a bit further"........"We are hitting a solid framerate on this platform, lets increase asset detail", spending lots of time optimizing only one platform to get it on par with the most powerful platform is not ideal, have a team optimize and continue working on the other as well.

I know that the persons who have the lesser hardware want a game running as good as the better hardware, but this is not how things work, if I buy a 7850, I do not expect to gain same performance as a 7770 user, no matter how much it benefits the 7770 user, it's not a realistic expectation that we should hold on to, unless something is wrong, which is what many are citing here.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
It is, but not the way its achieved, why hold back 1 platform?

Ubisoft is like the only ones pushing for it.

With this thinking, I should soon expect my PC version of the games to look like they do on consoles, thanks but no thanks.

Also to think back to PS360 era, where was the outcry for parity back then?

What ubisoft's reasons are really don't matter to the result. That is, a stable performing game on both platforms.

Its even worse because as you said, Ubisoft is the only one who bothers to do it, so why is it such a big deal?

You'd think by the way some people talk and rant on and on about this kind of thing, like its some crazy conspiracy to keep PS4 versions back, when its pretty much isolated for the most part to one publisher anyway.

They probably have a base target, and for efficiency purposes, work toward that minimum standard to give both platforms a good and comparable experience. Just because you can't justify your PS4 purchase decision for every game does not mean its some big conspiracy to start hashtagging.

Atleast with ACU, the argument was that GPU power was independent on the resolution, and so PS4 should have handed in a higher resolution by default.

This situation is nowhere near that, and not even a big deal.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
this is what makes me think the ps4 version could be running at 40 to 45 FPS and so they just lock it to 30. Who would want a framerate of 45 FPS fluctuaing. It would be awful.
I would want that in any non-cinematic action game for sure. Infamous SS was like that and so was Killzone: SF, and I found them more enjoyable to play with unlocked framerate than with 30FPS lock. I really wish devs would always leave the option to lock/unlock the framerate in games that can push around 40-50FPS performance.
 
Maybe they are still working on optimizing both versions before going gold and just provided a beta they knew run well. Or have there been any confirmation this is the "gold" version.
 

onQ123

Member
oh i agree with you, it's not the norm at all, most graphically demanding games due show the golf in power in favor of the ps4. as for ubi, i'm actually kinda almost convinced there putting way more effort in the xbox1 version.



ps4 is slightly better. only a person who is extremely sensitive to fps drops, will notice, if this was a ps3 port in 360/ps3 era this would be considered a great port for ps3.



honestly would not call the ps3 more powerful, if owned both consoles, you get the better experience on 360 with most games, if you can't run most games better, you don't deserve the more powerful hardware title.

PS3 is more powerful devs making multiplat games just didn't use the SPE like they could have.

kVsbaQm.png
 

dEvAnGeL

Member
I just hope that the game on ps4 gets proper vsync, screen traring sucks and if they use adaptive vsync they should make sure the tearing is at the top of the screen and not a cascade like it is on the xbox one
 

_machine

Member
People simply miss the days when devs use to push every piece of hardware as best as they could, no stop at this point because we have done enough. We need more "there's still time, let's push things a bit further"........"We are hitting a solid framerate on this platform, lets increase asset detail", spending lots of time optimizing only one platform to get it on par with the most powerful platform is not ideal, have a team optimize and continue working on the other as well.
We are long past the days when it was anywhere near feasible for developers, and well, it hasn't been worth the resource investment on doing per console asset levels (in clear terms, putting tons of env. artist tech and QA resources for 1/3 audience vs. using it to create content for the whole audience. Not to mention that it doesn't matter for >95% of the audience). There are of course ways of automating this and using the lodX/HQ/PC models/textures, but even then it generally isn't worth the effort. The rising budgets are already hindering games and teams massively, and for the sake of actually keeping the industry of healthy, it's better if developers would rather try to scale down (which they, in some ways are). It used to make sense when games weren't as complex, hardware/software-side varied a lot between consoles, and the teams much smaller, but again, it's completely unrealistic for today's challenges on the development side (especially when the bulk of it just scrambling to make games technically feasible at all, and make the experience smooth for the majority of users, which as this generation has proven, is a challenge in itself).


On a side note, if the Xbox One version runs at the same resolution as the PS4 version, and uses the same AA solution, why is it slightly blurrier in certain shots? Have DF missed something? Dynamic resolution? A different type of AA solution with the Xbox One version? Something else?
Generally speaking, AA solutions aren't always exactly 1:1 on the consoles...due to well, reasons, but there could also be other explanations. I personally think the difference feels generally very small, so that could be an explanation.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
People simply miss the days when devs use to push every piece of hardware as best as they could, no stop at this point because we have done enough. We need more "there's still time, let's push things a bit further"........"We are hitting a solid framerate on this platform, lets increase asset detail", spending lots of time optimizing only one platform to get it on par with the most powerful platform is not ideal, have a team optimize and continue working on the other as well.

Is this like the same folks who cry about the platform publishers not blowing hundreds of millions on high end HW and settled for middle of the road, power effecient consoles, cause "bu bu bu back in the day they did it!"

Newsflash guys, this isn't back in the day, GenesisSnes, PS1/N64/Dreamcast or even PS2/Xbox.

Devs want as smooth a ride as possible with an easy development pipeline to use for all platforms.
 

c0de

Member
PS3 is more powerful devs making multiplat games just didn't use the SPE like they could have.

kVsbaQm.png

Yes, taking a synthetic benchmark about a simulation proves what exactly? Obviously the test was a massive parallel simulation and it was only doing that. That doesn't mean anything for what demands you have in an actual game where the SPEs had to do more than just simulating.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
based on this pic ps3 is more powerful then ps4, lol. even some mulitplatorm games that lead on ps3, were better on 360.

Catherine is one....both most were better to be sure on PS3 if they lead on PS3. That's a clear contrast to if you lead on 360, then 100% of games were better.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
In spite of what DF says, I think the DoF on xb1 is of a lower resolution. Open them and switch tabs. Look at the stethoscope, you can see upscaling artifacts in the x1 screen not visible on PS4.


Xbone
x1pukf4.png


PS4
ps4t3jyz.png


I mean, it could be a sympton of the screens or some blip, but it is something noticable.
I read at first that you said resolution was lower overall, but I checked once more, and it's definitely not. Then I relized you said DOF. I think you're right, the DOF resolution somewhat better on PS4, but it would be easier to see on a screen with more gradual DOF. Just top clarify, you mean the straight, silver part of the stethoscope, because on the round part the difference is practically invisible.
 

wachie

Member
Ps4 has 6.6% more FPS doesn't sound quite as impressive as the numbers from glory days of PS4 supremacy
lol

based on this pic ps3 is more powerful then ps4, lol. even some mulitplatorm games that lead on ps3, were better on 360.
The lol should be reserved for your post and failing to miss the point entirely.
It's purely a CPU comparison.
 

Elandyll

Banned
I hope that the PS4 gets as big as the PS2, forcing third party devs to develop exclusively for Sony.
Things are getting way out of hand there buddy...
3rd party exclusivity should not exist unless co-financed as the title would not exist otherwise.

Why are people so obsessed with this stuff? Both PS4 and XB1 turn in respectable numbers, why does it have to be that PS4 automatically gets better everything?

They hit their base target of solid 30fps and 1080p at a specific graphical level for both console SKUs. That's a GOOD THING

It is clearly not that simple, but with architectures being so close for both consoles (and PC like), expectations of direct scalability are higher than ever.
CPU: advantage XB1 by a mere 10% clock speed (available cores are now the same)
GPU: advantage PS4 by around 40% overall, but also on a much higher amount in other terms
RAM/ Architecture: Advantage PS4 in terms of simplicity and unified high speed GDDR5
SDK: Advantage PS4 (as reported by devs)

Let's make it a fun comparison.
It's like if... say Andy and Phil (all similarities to existing persons is purely coincidental) are very thirsty, and each bring their own cup at school to drink at the cafeteria fountain. Andy brought a 6oz cup, while Phil only brought a 4oz cup. A teacher then tells Andy that he should only fill his cup up to 4oz, because that's only fair.
Another teacher tells him that 5oz is ok, but that he really should be happy to get 5 and he better not brag about it!
This whole time, Andy is wondering why he can't get a full cup...

:)
 
lol


The lol should be reserved for your post and failing to miss the point entirely.
It's purely a CPU comparison.


obviously it was cpu comparison, but how does that comparison show ps3 is more powerful? its like comparing 360 gpu, to ps3 gpu.
 

thelastword

Banned
I would want that in any non-cinematic action game for sure. Infamous SS was like that and so was Killzone: SF, and I found them more enjoyable to play with unlocked framerate than with 30FPS lock. I really wish devs would always leave the option to lock/unlock the framerate in games that can push around 40-50FPS performance.
Even the people who say that it will only be 40-45fps do not know that for sure, this game could be hitting mid 50's and 60fps for quite a bit too. I guess we will know when we get some pc frametest videos. In any case, even if it is 40-45fps, that is infinitely better than a locked 30fps for me. Infamous and Killzone felt much better to me unlocked and I'm thankful that I played TRDE at 60fps with dips, I hope they give us the option for the new tombraider as well.
 

onQ123

Member
I hope that the PS4 gets as big as the PS2, forcing third party devs to develop exclusively for Sony.

Is there a reason for this?


If the game can be made for both without hurting gameplay I see no reason for wanting this. But as far as the Xbox One holding back 3rd party devs from making games that take advantage of the DS4 for gameplay I hope PS4 install base get big enough that devs can try new gameplay ideas without worrying about having to make the game work on other platforms.
 
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