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Gaming Bolt: Unravel dev: Nintendo is very secretive about NX, Unravel port talk.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
To be fair, it's not hard to believe that they are in the wrong when they have a long history of fucking up 3rd party relations.
SkeptiMism
Member
While I am really skeptical of Nintendo handling this that well, I think that seems a bit unreasonable. Do you know that there aren't any dev kits for some indie games? I think it's a reasonable assumption that their key partners, some of which are indies, do have them already.
This isn't gamefaqs.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
He took back the announcement, and now its not a 100% thing. SE is only close with Nintendo in regards to the 3DS. They have a couple of Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest Sword for Wii , but nothing for Wii U. How is that better in recent years?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That doesnt change the point that their support has declined significantly from Wii to Wii U.
An why would they suddenly backpedal on DQXI when Nintendo is the only other viable platform holder in Japan as well as the only platform holder likely to release another handheld (Let alone a decently successful one) in Japan with games that are targeted at the Japanese audience. Considering they're going all in on trying to make the PS4 a success in Japan, not supporting Nintendo's next platform (whatever it is) is hardly in their best interests with rising dev costs. It's not like the Xbox One is lighting up Japan and their Japanese arm has found decent to great success on Nintendo platforms.
If Nintendo makes the job of porting easy enough for them (Unlike with the WiiU) as it appears they are doing then i see no reason for them to suddenly backpedal from Nintendo's platforms with DQXI. Also your point was that they had nothing on the WiiU which was incorrect, they had the next installment of one of their bigger (In Japan at least) JRPGs on Nintendo's least successful console ever. The potential shared environment idea of the NX alone guarantees that the userbase of Nintendo's next consoles will be larger than the WiiU. If they are willing to test the waters on the WiiU of all systems then there's no reason why they wouldn't on the NX.
I'd throw Deus Ex: Human Revolution Director's Cut in there as well but it doesn't change the fact that their support is still abysmal.
Yep.
MMaRsu
Banned
haha yea but you know they wont
I think the Wii U has just soured a lot of people.
So people are going into NX with very low expectations.
It really just seems like Nintendo wants to control the messaging of this new platform alot better than with the WiiU. Considering this thread is about what they DIDN'T do , imagine if they did give them a devkit. If you go running off to a journalist or some forum about me not telling you my secret, that could be part of the reason you weren't told in the first place. I don't think they want the surprise to be influenced by comments (good or bad) made by devs, months earlier. Not saying that devs can't keep a secret, but the very existence of leaks proves not all can. I guess their chosen way to address that is to drasticly reduce the amount of devs that are even granted knowledge that could be leaked. The platform could suck or be awesome, but i think they want that opinion formed only after they reveal it, not before. I wonder if devkits won't be given out like candy after the reveal. Maybe initial messaging was deemed more important than immediate 3rd party support, by the higher ups, eventhough us armchair CEO's think dfferently. We'll find out soon.
Indeed. I find it hard to believe that the likes of Shin'en and other big Wii U/3DS eshop supporters don't already have kits.
It seems pretty obvious that Nintendo will be supplying the earliest kits to the indies they already have strong workng relationships with, who they know will support the system. Those indies who might support the system if they like what they see ...are not going to be first on the list.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
He took back the announcement lol? More like he wasn't posed to be speaking about it at the moment.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
You are arguing with semantic here. Trace back few more posts and you'll see that I am arguing the bigger point about assuming that SE is already on board (just because of 1 unconfirmed multiplatform title) and is close with Nintendo, when in actual fact, their supports has actually declined drastically from the Wii to Wii U.
SE isn't going to just limit their sight in Japan. They'll be seeing worldwide. There are more Wii U users than PS4 in Japan, but take a look at SE's support for both of them so far.
SolidSnakex
Member
As Oddduck mentioned, the Wii U really seem to burn people as far as its third party support. Leading up to Nintendo consoles, or really any console for that matter, you'll hear a lot of positives from third party developers. But praising something and actually supporting it are two very different things. Nintendo simply aren't in a position anymore for many people to buy the idea that things are suddenly going to change in a dramatic way in terms of their third party support. The proof that things have changed won't be known for years.
An worldwide where exactly do you think DQ sells best, it sure doesn't look like it will be the XBO going by past sales of JRPGs on the Microsoft systems vs Nintendo systems. If they were looking worldwide as you say then the XBO would have a version of DQXI announced.... it doesn't yet the NX does.
Clearly Square at least in regards to DQ is looking at what is best for the IP in Japan first and foremost. An in Japan the XBO is for all intents and purposes dead. It speaks volumes that a technically unannouced platform is name dropped as being supported while a platform that's been around for multiple years isn't (As far as we know) getting a port of DQXI.
Like i said before it is in Square's best interests for a succesful NX (At least in Japan anyway) as that means a larger userbase for them to sell their Japanese focused games on after all the 3DS won't be around forever, an if the NX environment is easy to port to (Which it appears to be based on insider reports on GAF itself) then they have no reason to not port their PS4 efforts to the system thereby pushing the install base forward. There is no scenario where the NX userbase ends up smaller than the WiiU userbase purely because of the NX handheld existing.
For example, Orbis and Durango were known way ahead by developers than NX (I mean if it launchs this year and if the information about EA or others having kits since only a year before launch). And more important, the specs were discussed with some developers when the machine wasn't finished.
Like i said in another thread, the Wii U speculation->reality(even worsened by almost 5 years of extreme negativity, trolling and flaming on the internet by a huge part of the gaming community) burned people so much that now many of them aren't willing to even consider the possibility that this time many things (not necessarily everything) will be different. "The NX will be a minor jump in power from the Wii U, the NX will have 0 third party support, the NX will sell worse than the Wii U, the new gimmick will be laughable like the gamepad", etc etc.
I mean, all these things could end up being true, but why don't we at least wait for the reveal of the machine before screaming doomed again?
John Harker said they discussed the NX with third party publishers before E3 2015 (and they got a positive response as well iirc), let's not act like every single developer on the planet has no clue about what the NX is only because a couple of indie don't have devkits yet.
Yeah Harker said that so maybe Iherre's contacts were not in the loop from the beginning. But if SDK's have been available since the Fall of 2015 and dev kits are out to close partners maybe there actually is some decent support coming.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
If we are talking about worldwide, its only PS4 and 3DS for now. That's precisely where DQ XI will be released on.
NX failing isn't going to impact SE much, because they already have the PS4. If they want more sales for subsequent DQ, they can have a XBox English version or even the PC too. They will at best, release it on the NX handheld, but its delusional to think they are already on board for the NX home console.
But if our assumptions about what NX is are correct, then supporting just the NX handheld doesn't make any sense, as they could release the same games with improved assets and nicer effects on the home console for minimal expense and get a guaranteed jump in sales.
What I think is delusional is to ignore the fact that DQX and DQXI's producer very explicitly said that the games are being brought to NX. The "retraction" from SE's PR was little more than them trying to cover their asses from the fact that Saito wasn't supposed to talk about NX versions yet.
Exactly. And don't forget a few weeks after, some FFXIV producer said they were interested in porting that game to NX, too. S-E was the first third party to mention the NX to the media, and announcing two main DQ games, no less. Before even Nintendo itself announcing any game or the system itself. When was the last time this happened? Pre-Ultra 64 times? I think this was some kind of controlled leak by S-E and Nintendo so they can announce they're working on it without the need to wait until Nintendo unveils the console, and a way to say to other developers "hey, NX is interesting, UE4 compatible and some top japanese third parties are already on board" without spilling the beans. I also think they're doing FFVII Remake for NX, but that's real speculation for now.
This is the height of delusion to think an Xbox release of DQ of all series would sell anywhere near as well as a Nintendo release of a series that Nintendo has been promoting in the West since DQIX. As well as the fact that you're dismissing the words of the creator of the series itself.
In addition to this what kind of logic sees Square support only handheld with DQ when they've supported every Nintendo console (Handheld or console) with DQ since DQIX (DQX on both Wii and WiiU despite the WiiUs sales woes overseas), what kind of logic also allows Square to support the NX but arbitrarily lock DQXI to the handheld, do they suddenly hate money or just enjoy making their work harder for themselves. If you can port to the home console easily (Which it looks like you can) then you port and downgrade for the handheld, as i said before by virtue of the handheld existing the NX will cannot have an install base smaller than the WiiU.
Ika put it best, when was the last time something like this happened from Square for a major entry in any franchise for a Nintendo system?
We've had an outright confirmation by the creator of the series at a Japan wide (At the very least) event of two DQ titles for the system.
We've had an expression of interest to bring FFXIV to the system by Square.
We've had Cloud appear on a Nintendo system in a major way in Smash, something that had you suggested such prior to its release you'd be seeing as living fanboy dreams.
I dont see a reason to hide this from sony or ms
Papacheeks
Banned
Compared to it's competition it is. And when your the customer and see multiplats play/look better on average on PS4, I would assume they are right. Also PS4 seems to be the prime platform for development among third party's. As was Xbox 360 last generation.
I think your forgetting how early Sony's leaks started, how early developer's were talking about working with next gen in 2012. How Sony had interviews with different developer's in how they designed their console with specs that aligned with what dev's wanted for power.
And them showing a good chunk of gameplay from killzone in February 2013. Which ment they had been working on the game with SKD's, for quit some time, and had early dev kits without final specs.
Nintendo is doing nothing good with all this secrecy. And if and when they decide to unveil it, it doesn't live up to expectations, it will be another Wii U situation where you will only buy it for select Nintendo Japanese made games.
James Scott
Banned
Shahid Ahamad shares his thoughts on Moon Studio's comment.
Being the former indie guy for PS, I'd think he'd know what he's talking about here
thomasmahler
Member
Man, a lot of news sites picked up on my posts on the previous pages and took what I was saying a bit out of context...
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
See, I'd just love to talk to the guy, since I don't think he read any more of my postings other than the one that all the news sites picked up on. I think we're generally in agreement, especially since Sony DID apparently reach out to smaller studios and made a bunch of very smart moves, getting smaller studios signed up and changing their stance on the whole indie support. That result can now be seen, since most indies love the PS4 and see it as a viable platform to ship their titles on. What should be taken from my comments is a simple shout-out to Nintendo in the sense of "Hey Nintendo, supporting smaller devs and indie houses worked brilliantly for Sony - Do likewise!".
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
See, I'd just love to talk to the guy, since I don't think he read any more of my postings other than the one that all the news sites picked up on. I think we're generally in agreement, especially since Sony DID apparently reach out to smaller studios and made a bunch of very smart moves, getting smaller studios signed up and changing their stance on the whole indie support. That result can now be seen, since most indies love the PS4 and see it as a viable platform to ship their titles on. What should be taken from my comments is a simple shout-out to Nintendo in the sense of "Hey Nintendo, supporting smaller devs and indie houses worked brilliantly for Sony - Do likewise!".
Sure but they aren't doing anything bad either.
Of course time will tell. Saying this secrecy is good or bad is dumb(at this current moment in time) because we know next to nothing.
James Scott
Banned
Unlike other platforms, Nintendo thinks they're a unique concept in the hardware and that getting leaked out and copied so early probably wouldn't be good since they're concerned about the competition stealing this idea. Whether it's good or not doesn't matter too much on that point, just that they want to keep it secretive.Man, a lot of news sites picked up on my posts on the previous pages and took what I was saying a bit out of context...
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
Nintendo's been pretty good with indies so I wouldn't be too worried about that, they should probably be more worried about getting those that don't play nice with Nintendo hardware.
We also don't know what NX is or which one of its multiple form factors (?) comes out this year so getting told specs probably isn't a great idea as well.
Probably best to wait until it's announced and the hardware is closer to being finalized until they send dev kits out to more people.
Wii U did launch with a nice selection of indie games and while it hasn't gone as well as PS4, it's enjoyed indie support for awhile now and I don't think that'll stop or get worse with the new system.
I don't imagine these comments having spread as much as they have helped you get dev kits quicker.
maybe the MS exclusivity didn't help, dunno
And I'm pretty sure the overwhelming amount of indie support wasn't present on Ps4 day one, that takes some time.
If they didn't want to give you a dev kit after it being formally announced because of some dumb policy then sure, the comments would be more grounded but right now it's supposed to stay secret for a few more months.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Poor dude, he can't vent on neogaf without the press making a big deal out of it
Hes not just some random dude, he's a developer, part of the gaming industry and wanting to put a game on a platform. If you want to work with a company and things dont go well I'm sure theres a more profesional way of going about it. He should know that as a developer people are going to react to his post and it'll get out there, hes not just some average joe venting, so you cant be mad when your words are spread across the net, people are thirsty for any NX news out there. You think Nintendo didnt see his rant and weren't happy they weren't quick to give him a devkit? The rules aren't the same as you and I when you are in the industry.
Besides, he makes it seem like Nintendo should be throwing dev kits at every indie developer even though they are trying to keep their concept (good or bad) a secret. I mean they gave him a shot at presenting his game and he said he wanted to see the devkits first, or something right?
I need to pick it up again, but "looks great, meh gameplay" would be my verdict after 3-4 hours.
could have fooled me
anyways I think it's pretty obvious why Nintendo is being secretive
We have mods here who will shut shit down when need be on most good days, don't recall that at gamefaqs once ever.
Isn't an SDK available that would help speed up development until the dev kit arrives?Man, a lot of news sites picked up on my posts on the previous pages and took what I was saying a bit out of context...
First off, I love Nintendo. If you look at the games we're making, it's pretty clear that Nintendo is and has always been one of our inspirations. Love em, always have. I didn't want to shit on Nintendo or come off as super aggressive, I think a thriving Nintendo is good for the industry.
All I was trying to say was that in an ideal world, devkits shouldn't be hard to come by for developers - It's not a good situation when your system is probably only 8-9 months away from launch and the developers that would want to support you have a hard time getting a devkit. Wouldn't we all want to see great titles during the launch-window? Bigger publishers often can't afford to put tons of resources into supporting a platform that has an install base of 0, but it might make sense for smaller developers to take that gamble. That's where Nintendo could make some smart moves right now.
Some smaller developers actually reached out to me after the news sites picked up on the story to tell me they're in the same boat, so I think I struck a nerve with a lot of people. There are some people in the press and on twitter who ripped me to pieces, cause I often post here in a very open and honest way and just say things the way they pop in my head, but obviously I didn't want to offend anyone. I like seeing developers out there, openly posting about the stuff they go through - and I do my part. I like having a voice here and sharing that with the fellow community. I try to be very open about what we're doing and what we're going through. And no, I never ever in my life breached an NDA and concluding that I would based on me voicing some concerns about Nintendo probably being a little late to the party is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
My thinking is that if there's a good developer out there that creates high-quality games and that wants to support your system, have a friendly conversation with em and allow them to support you. The worst possible case would be that they make a game that doesn't help you out. In the best possible case you have the opportunity to build a win/win partnership that helps everyone and makes the gamers happy. I'd always choose the latter.
Still love Nintendo, even if I don't understand some of their moves
See, I'd just love to talk to the guy, since I don't think he read any more of my postings other than the one that all the news sites picked up on. I think we're generally in agreement, especially since Sony DID apparently reach out to smaller studios and made a bunch of very smart moves, getting smaller studios signed up and changing their stance on the whole indie support. That result can now be seen, since most indies love the PS4 and see it as a viable platform to ship their titles on. What should be taken from my comments is a simple shout-out to Nintendo in the sense of "Hey Nintendo, supporting smaller devs and indie houses worked brilliantly for Sony - Do likewise!".
Attention seekers always complain about the attention they receive.
To add to this, Nintendo has been helping me like crazy trying to get my game running well enough on the Wii U. I have some pretty crazy demands as far as how I like my code to function, but they've been extremely helpful and tolerant. I'm just some no-name game developer right now, yet they've been giving me first class service. I firmly believe that they'll reach out to all indies when they're ready, but the crew in charge are good people and seem to genuinely want to see us succeed.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
That assumption is only in the best case scenario. It still cost money to make a NX home console version if they make a handheld version.
The whole thing about assuming SE being on board the NX is bunch of conjunctions in the best case scenarios now. There's nothing to stop SE from switching to PC/PS4 if they want for subsequent titles. In fact, I see them already building up the DQ fanbase on the PS4 (with 2 DQ heroes games, DQ builder and DQ XI). Truth is, there is no indication that illustrate SE is going a provide decent amount of support the NX (yet).
And lets not forget DQXI itself is already confirmed for PS4/3DS. Even if it is confirmed and announced formally for NX, that's no much reason for people to buy the game on that platform instead of on the PS4.
Claude Augario
Member
Gaming sites love negative Nintendo news, especially if it's a developer tantrum. There's absolutely nothing to talk about NX-wise until Nintendo spills the beans, so this is the next best thing to draw clicks about a platform we know next to nothing about - an unprofessional, ignorant and entitled rant from a developer that's not in on the big secret!
The mods here aren't racist either, so that's another point over GameFAQs.
And they've been doing that for years. They even started giving away free Unity and Autodesk tools before Sony.
The only difference was that while Sony was stepping out on E3 screaming "indies!!!!" Nintendo wasn't. Even the threads in here went mostly ignored. Then look at other things Nindies at Home, Nindies at Night, Wii U Humble Bundle...they have been working and improving relationships, they just don't feel the need to scream sbout it.
There are indies working on NX projects.
Once the NX is officially revealed things will be more open. For now, is part of the process.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Exactly. If I were them, I wouldn't even try to fuck up the possible relations with 3rd party publishers; I'd do everything possible to try to make them happy & to get them on board.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Except that you are forgetting one thing: there are already nearly 20 millions of xbox one out there, and it will take years the NX install base to build up. You are also dismissing SE's official statement about DQXI for NX is just something under consideration and it is not set in stone.
And DQX was released while PS3 is on its last leg and PS4 haven't released yet. Now that PS4 has respectable install base, they have announced a PS4 version.
Personally i wouldnt take Cloud appearing in Smash as anything. Look at Solid Snake.