People are too busy attacking him for saying something negative about Nintendo.
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Gaming Bolt: Unravel dev: Nintendo is very secretive about NX, Unravel port talk.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
People are too busy attacking him for saying something negative about Nintendo.
I do think the big missing point here is at which stage is NX and when will it be released.
lwilliams3
Member
The NX wasn't (and still isn't) officially announced yet, so SquareEnix can't officially say that they have anything in development for it. Others have said this to you besides me, though, so I will drop this.
Microsoft doesn't have much of a Japanese presence (and that is an understatement). Nintendo's handheld, however, is the top player there. If Nintendo's portable can sale close to the 3DS, it will not take too long for it to surpass the userbase for the Wii U/PSVita/PS4/XBox Family combined in Japan in conjunction with the console. SquareEnix can easily benefit from that.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Well that's my point. They havent said anything, and given that they have released a handful of DQ spinoffs on PS platforms in recent years, there's no indication that SE is on board on the NX or closer with Nintendo regarding the home console except an unconfirmed DQXI. They were probably closer during the Wii period, considering that Wii has got more SE games than the Wii U.
In my case I knew and I assume others knew also seeing how EDarkness is also a dev.
So not "attacking" just pointing things out.
Maybe his experience was bad with Nintendo at some point and therefore assumes that they should be like Sony in helping and embracing indies...but at least over the past 3 years that's what they've been doing. And everything is pointing to just things getting better.
Even when the Wii U "is dying" and like in the Undertale thread many were wondering "but Wii U is dead...why".
They've also released a bunch of 3DS titles and are working on more, including DQ11 itself.
Well that's a huge change from past accounts of Nintendo helping out developers. It used to be you were pretty much on your own.
I completely agree, their actual indie relations seem pretty good, but there's no reason to attack the guy like others have(not you) for providing his experience with trying to get an NX dev kit. Calling him unprofessional, ignorant, etc., is ridiculous.
Are we arguing install bases now?
Barring the most catastrophic launch of a Nintendo handheld ever there is no scenario where the Xbox One has a larger install base than the combined NX install base within 2 or so years if we are being conservative after the NX launch considering that within a year of the 3DS' launch (A less than stellar one i remind you) it had already clocked 17.13 million sold. Adding the 4.3 million the WiiU sold in its first year (A drought plagued first year also) into the mix gives an install base of 21+ million in its first year
vs
Xbox One has being on the market for 2+ years to an install base of 20 million as you put it.
1. You are dismissing the historically weak Japanese presence Microsoft has and that's an understatement. When your system is selling in the low hundreds (If lucky) in a region you are a non factor especially when those games don't sell well on your platform. If Square as you seem to believe cared so much about Worldwide sales of the XBO then where is DQXI on the system. Better yet where is DQX for the XBO or the 360.
2. It's not under consideration, the creator outright said it's coming to the NX. FFXIV is under consideration, DQXI is coming. He didn't mince words about it, under consideration would be them wondering if they should bother with an XBO version when launch day NX sales in Japan will probably eclipse the lifetime sales of the XBO in Japan easily.
3. What are you even talking about with the PS3? DQX came at the end of its life yes and DQX came at the beginning of the WiiU's life. Where's the XBOs version with its 20 million strong install base or the 360s version. The fact remains Microsoft consoles are a non factor in Japan, Nintendo consoles are a major factor in Japan if only for the handheld portion. An by virtue of the NX handheld existing DQXI will come to the family of systems as announced as well as probably more games if the system is easy to port to.
4. Solid Snake the character with a game that was made with the PS3 as the lead platform from a dev who is known for pushing tech in his games. The same Solid Snake from an IP that has little on Nintendo platforms
vs
Cloud the embodiment of Nintendo's fall from grace during the N64 era. A character from an IP with a long history on Nintendo platforms (Good and bad). A character from a game that's being remade with the specific quirk of PS4 first with other platforms to follow. Going back to my initial statement of in what scenario does a JRPG sell better on Microsoft systems than Nintendo systems especially when Microsoft systems are more or less a novelty in Japan. Heck 2 of the currently biggest JRPGs in Japan are exclusive to Nintendo systems in Pokemon and Monster Hunter.
So releasing DQ spinoffs on PS platforms is a sign of being on board with Sony to grow DQ on their platforms but the release of damm near every DQ game on the 3DS, the release of DQIX on the DS, the release of DQX on the Wii and the release of DQX on the WiiU early in its life when its install base was even smaller than it is now isn't a sign of Square being on board with growing the DQ series on Nintendo platforms?
Again i ask you, when has Square outright announced a major entry in a long standing franchise of theirs like DQ on a Nintendo platform before even Nintendo announced it. When was the last time Square said a mainline entry in FF could come to a Nintendo console before Nintendo announced it.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
ITT: GAF can't figure out that the way Nintendo talks to random indie devs is not the way they talk to Ubisoft or Square.
That's not even meant to be dismissive of smaller devs, just recognizing that they need to pick their spots to prevent leaks. Saying " they should just have everything out there already is missing the fact that they had to accelerate their schedule on this system when the Wii u failed to take off.
That's not even meant to be dismissive of smaller devs, just recognizing that they need to pick their spots to prevent leaks. Saying " they should just have everything out there already is missing the fact that they had to accelerate their schedule on this system when the Wii u failed to take off.
LiquidSolid
Member
Really? That was literally the only difference?
Eolz
Member
Basically this yeah. The speculation about some other stuff is too soon, but saying Nintendo and S-E are not as close as Sony is completely ridiculous.
The main version of DQXI in Japan will also be the 3DS one, not the PS4 one.
And X1 is a complete non-factor when you're tqlking about japanese games and publishers, which seems to be nintendo's focus this time.
Come on now. His comments have been discussed at length by those supporting his view and those not supporting his view. Of course there's a moronic minority resorting to disrepectful comments, but then there is a minority resorting to "lol@Nintendo doomed" type posts too. But to say his comments have been ignored because "people are too busy attacking him" is just nonsense I'm afraid.
And for all we know they are. Unless you only pay attention to the negative sounding news, there is no real reason to panic:
One one side, we've had one indie dev saying he doesn't have any info yet because Nintendo wouldn't give him any unless he pitched his game (thomas mahler, Ori Developer), and potentially 1 division of a 'Big' dev in December saying they had no devkit at that point (Arkham's source).
On the other side we have at least 1 Indie dev saying they have had an NX Devkit/SDK for some time (someone help me out, can't rememeber the name but it's the guy who mentioned it on his FB page), John Harker saying NX was shown to Developers before E3 2015 and got a v. positive reaction, EA saying they have had kits for a few months, the now varified AmaterasuOni over in the EA thread talking about a "big 3rd party dev porting a huge game for NX", other sources saying Nintendo are working hard to get engines up and running on NX (UE4, Unity etc)...
So to draw any definite conclusion you will have to ignore one side or the other. I'm sticking with "we don't really know for sure". But judging from the above alone, I'm feeling fairly positive at the mo.
Heh, I just looked at his posts and didn't see people quoting him. My bad if I failed to notice.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
and this is the point with Nintendo and third parties, made a lot worse with smaller ones/indies, the lack of promotion and space quite likely also due to fear of lowering sales and awareness of their first party titles.
Sony position itself differently. Sony makes money with some first party games, but they likely know that the strength of those first party games is to help maintain the system software offering varied and enticing... Not THE reason to buy the console for some people, but it is part of what gives the impression of a strong ecosystem which people can buy into. People may buy PS4 for third parties, but it is not just sometimes better graphics which seals the deal, but it is the PlayStation ecosystem people know and love.
Papacheeks
Banned
Well if developers are saying different things about how Nintendo is approaching third party indie games, and how they have done a shit job promoting them like unlike Sony.
I think it sheds some light on how they are approaching this new platform, which comes off like they did not learn anything from the failure of Wii U.
They've been this way for a years now, probably about as long as Baker's been the front man for the eShop and indie developers.
I don't think is true anymore either, or, better stated, is an outdated piece of information from about three years ago. Nintendo runs specialized indie events, indie smash-like sales, indie promotions on their social media channels, indies on Humble Bundle, etc.
The promotion arm that they offer indies is, now, probably up there amongst the best in the business if you're not a "golden child" and outside of golden children its probably above anything that Microsoft or Sony will provide (though this has arisen by necessity), though they even have their own "golden child" super-promotions like Shovel Knight. I really don't think Nintendo is afraid of indies eating into their first party sales. The only distinct difference is that indies at E3 are presented by Treehouse, rather than by the main stage direct.
You can go and read articles on how Nintendo now handles promotion for indies/nindies, and see how drastically different it has become. I don't think you'll hear a negative said about their new methods from said indies. They have to be doing something right when they get great ass games like SteamWorld Heist as timed-exclusives.
Meh. I'm not gonna read too much into it. I'll wait and see.
mobilesworking
Member
Papacheeks
Banned
Guess we both have too. But not saying anything or making any statement in general about how they are approaching development for their new platform is a little disconcerting.
Is that article taking into account "Didn't see it when reading" that Sony took gambles on brand new indie games that were first foray's for some developers?
There were a lot of new developers who launched on PS4. Octodad developer's were straight from college and it was their first ever game. ANd that released withing the first year, and was showcased at E3 2013.
So I would say Sony was being open to new developers with unproven games. Ori and the blind forest is a proven game, so it makes no sense. Octodad was already early access on steam before it's announcement for PS4 I believe.
And being open with new unproven developers has really helped Sony's indie program shine. Nintendo being coy about Ori developer makes no sense at all. And seeing as they've goten games in the past that premiered on other platforms from indie developer's makes no lick of sense.
+1, and even for (some) big studios
Ok, but do they have an SDK? And are they on track to get them this summer?
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Its such old news. Especially if you have been in ori or xbox thread instead of the same stuff.
AcademicSaucer
Member
from the same publisher you said didnt had dev kits before?
Pretty much every report I've read from indies who've self-published games on Wii U has praised the amount of promotion they've got on eShop relative to PSN or XBL. My own (admittedly heavily anecdotal) experiences support this, as I check both the PS4 store and Wii U eShop on a regular basis, and while the PS4 store's main pages heavily push the latest AAA games, on the Wii U eShop you're much more likely to see small indie games getting prominent banners on the front page. This is a big deal for indies, as it can have a huge impact on sales, as discussed by Juicy Beast, the developers of Toto Temple Deluxe:
Juicy Beast said:
Sony will push "big" indie games which have exclusivity agreements, but for small indies and multiplats Nintendo seem much more favourable.
The decision process that led Sony to bring Young Horses onboard with Octodad is exactly the same decision process that Nintendo would be going through at the moment when deciding which indies to bring on board. They're looking for indies which satisfy at least one of these two criteria:
1. Has what looks to be a high quality game in development which the developer actively wants to release on your new console in the launch window.
or
2. Is a developer you've worked with before and have a good relationship with.
It doesn't make sense to give any of your limited dev kits, or even detailed info on your new console, to developers who don't satisfy either of those criteria. Neither Cordwood nor Moon Studios come close to satisfying them. Both teams have just released games for other platforms, so any new games they're working on would be released well past the launch window, and in neither case did the developers actually pitch a game to Nintendo at all, but rather simply asked for details and dev kits without giving Nintendo any reason to believe that a game would be developed for their console. And, of course, neither has released a game for a Nintendo console before.
This doesn't mean that Nintendo is shunning indies left, right and centre, just that they're rationing dev kits and information in precisely the way you'd expect them to: the way which gives them the best chance of success out of the gate.
There are a good number of indie developers who we could actually reasonably expect either have dev kits already, or would be given them promptly if requested. Studios who have a good working relationship with Nintendo, off the top of my head:
Shin'en - Works almost exclusively on Nintendo platforms and released Nano Assault Neo on Wii U's launch day.
Frozenbyte - Released Trine 2 at Wii U's launch and reported a good relationship with Nintendo. Current project Shadwen releases this year and doesn't have any console versions announced yet.
KnapNok Games - Spin the Bottle and Affordable Space Adventures were both Wii U exclusives, and could conceivably have a game ready for the launch window.
Yacht Club Games - Worked closely with Nintendo on Shovel Knight Amiibo and could have a game ready around the launch window.
Image & Form - Plenty of experience on Nintendo platforms. Just released Steamworld Heist, which could see an NX port.
WayForward - Long history on Nintendo platforms, current Shantae title may get an NX version.
13AM Games - Released Runbow exclusively on Wii U and have yet to announce their next title.
Two Tribes - Have released four Wii U eShop games, and have one more on the way, Rive, which could end up on NX too.
Renegade Kid - Have released plenty of games on both 3DS and Wii U. Their last major release (Xeodrifter) was in 2014, so could have a game ready for NX launch.
Tomorrow Corporation - Both of their games are console-exclusive on Wii U (plus World of Goo on Wii).
Curve Digital - Released and ported a large number of games on both 3DS and Wii U. Their last internally developed game, Stealth Inc 2, was released first on Wii U, and it's plausible that they'd have a title ready near launch.
Neko Entertainment - Released and ported numerous games on Wii U.
Nyamyam - Tengami was console exclusive on Wii U, and they could conceivably have a new game ready for the launch window.
The Game Bakers - Released Squids Odyssey for Wii U and 3DS. Not sure if they've signed an exclusivity deal with Sony for upcoming Furi, but if they haven't then a launch port for NX would be a possibility.
DrinkBox - Ported Guacamelee to Wii U, and upcoming Severed is currently only announced for Vita, but could plausibly have an NX handheld port.
And studios who don't have a relationship with Nintendo, but could have a game ready for launch window:
Supergiant - Transistor is almost two years old now, so a new game late this year or early next year is a distinct possibility.
Team Meat - SMB was originally intended to be a WiiWare game, but never made it to the service due to the 50MB limit. Sequel SMB Forever may be suitable for NX.
Bossa Studios - Recently announced Worlds Adrift is due to release later this year, and doesn't have any console ports announced yet.
Cardboard Computer - Kentucky Route Zero will probably finally be finished in early 2017, and a console exclusive NX port to coincide with it wouldn't be a bad get for Nintendo.
Coffee Stain Studios - Last major release was Goat Simulator in early 2014, so a new game could coincide with NX launch window.
Runic Games - New title Hob is due later this year, and seems like a good fit for NX (unless they've got an exclusivity deal with Sony).
Facepalm - The Swapper is almost 3 years old, so I'd expect a new game from them soonish. Incidentally, Nintendo seems to like them, as they handled the translation of The Swapper to Japanese (although the Wii U port was done by Curve).
Rain - Teslagrad has been out for over two years, so a new game can't be that far away.
Klei - Typically have a couple of projects on the go at once, so although Invisible Inc only released last year, a new game in the NX launch window wouldn't be impossible.
Pocketwatch - Working on Tooth and Tail, an "arcade style RTS" with controller support and split-screen multiplayer, but no console versions announced.
Subset - FTL's been out for a long time now, although they've been working on ports and updates for a lot of that time. They talked on their forum in 2014 about moving on to a new game, although don't seem to have mentioned it since.
Facepunch - Rust is proving very popular on PC, and although they talked about bringing it to consoles two years ago nothing has come from it (possibly due to the early access model). If Nintendo can make sure their development terms are compatible with this kind of eternally-in-development paradigm it could be a good game to have.
Torn Banner - Chivalry has been out for three and a half years, and although they've handled the ports in-house since then, their unannounced project can't be that far off.
Phosfiend Systems - Fract OSC is about 2 years old now, so a new game could be out late this year or early next.
The Astronauts - The Vanishing of Ethan Carter will be about 2 years old by the time NX launches, so a follow-up may be plausible during the launch window.
Now, I'm not saying any of the above two lists of developers necessarily have NX dev kits, but they're the indie studios who probably should be given kits if they expressed a genuine interest to Nintendo of developing a game for the platform. If we start to see several of these devs say "We want to bring our new game to NX, but Nintendo won't give us specs/SDKs/dev kits" then you can start jumping to conclusions, but not giving specs to developers who probably won't make anything for the console doesn't tell us anything one way or the other.
Caesar III
Member
Thanks for this. Great post! Really good summary of the situation and possibilities
Well, most of the developers on the first list are likely to release games on the NX at some point, although that doesn't necessarily mean that they have dev kits or are working on games right now. Most of the second list probably aren't working on NX, but they're the indie devs I can think of who Nintendo would want to court for games in the launch window.
The Wii U's actually built up a pretty good library of indie titles, all things considered, so I'd be cautiously optimistic for NX.