Support NeoGAF

[Springfoot]

As easy as it is to hate Konami, it's kind of easy to get where they're coming from in this case. Work on this game was surely happening long before the "Project Ogre" reveal in 2012, especially factoring in the totally superfluous development of a new game engine. Plenty of other devs have put out complete, satisfying games in less time. I'm going to give his next game a fair shake, but TPP has soured my faith in Kojima's supposed brilliance. But hey, at least he got to plaster his own name at the front of every story mission in the game.

Your last two posts echo my thoughts exactly. I was a big fan of the mainline (console) releases but was let down by the story and mission/gameplay structure of MGSV.

Interacting with individual guards, finding ways to chain various items together to set up new and fun situations, the controls and overall feeling of moving Snake around - all of that was terrific. But the rapidly regurgitated locales, pointlessness and stark barrenness of the open world, generally poor bosses (considering the rest of the series) and hodgepodge way the little crumbs of main story are interspersed throughout missions that otherwise all start to feel the same just left me feeling ambivalent to the whole thing.

Kojima is a very prominent and public figure in the industry, so I understand why people like jumping to his defense, but the guy had such a vast array of resources, teams, and financial support as his disposal for far more years than most devs will see in their careers, but he still failed to tie it all together into a cohesive finished product. Konami has/is doing some stupid shit right now, but I can't blame them for finally telling him to get the thing out the door (and no, the cut Mission 51 wouldn't have magically fixed things). I'm interested to see what he comes up with next, but he's no longer a dev in my guaranteed solid, day 1 purchase category.

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

(BTW, even though the title makes it pretty clear spoilers are fair game, I'm sure there are a few people who will go into this thread for just a peek anyways, so might want to lower that spoiler-ific image.)

There's not a lot of it, and what's there isn't great.

Last week i re watched Unforgiven.

Spoiler

A story that shows how a likable character is a monster.

Game should have approached this, even if you are not BB. This just showed how BB is good delegator and playing hide

Spoiler

o

and seek.

Parasites.
Male to female.
Copulation.
Dineh.

Still disappointed. Its basically left a huge mark on the metal gear solid story for me that unless they somehow magically fixed it, has kinda ruined it for me.

*sigh* All this and more. I really have lost some enjoyment from the stories of the other Metal Gears, since I know that the details that should have been filled by V will never be filled now, and that what we did get just served to soil a fair bit of what could've been assumed. I mean, the game basically goes great lengths out of its way to avoid as many real connections to future game as possible, and what it can't avoid addressing, it screws up horribly.

The story is really, really bad. The Sins of the Father theme, and the whole game's production is honestly wasted on the trash plot.

I'm just glad Kojima doesn't have to force himself through more MGS, because I think it's clear his boredom working with the series led him to lose sight of what it was. Now that he can make something new, hopefully it will be able to be a more honest and successful effort.

I'm so glad I sold my Collector's Edition.

Edit:

As easy as it is to hate Konami, it's kind of easy to get where they're coming from in this case. Work on this game was surely happening long before the "Project Ogre" reveal in 2012, especially factoring in the totally superfluous development of a new game engine. Plenty of other devs have put out complete, satisfying games in less time. I'm going to give his next game a fair shake, but TPP has soured my faith in Kojima's supposed brilliance. But hey, at least he got to plaster his own name at the front of every story mission in the game.

Your last two posts echo my thoughts exactly. I was a big fan of the mainline (console) releases but was let down by the story and mission/gameplay structure of MGSV.

Interacting with individual guards, finding ways to chain various items together to set up new and fun situations, the controls and overall feeling of moving Snakes around - all of that was terrific. But the rapidly regurgitated locales, pointlessness and stark barrenness of the open world, generally poor bosses (considering the rest of the series) and hodgepodge way the little crumbs of main story are interspersed throughout missions that otherwise all start to feel the same just left me feeling ambivalent to the whole thing.

Kojima is a very prominent and public figure in the industry, so I understand why people like jumping to his defense, but the guy had such a vast array of resources, teams, and financial support as his disposal for far more years than most devs will see in their careers, but he still failed to tie it all together into a cohesive finished product. Konami has/is doing some stupid shit right now, but I can't blame them for finally telling him to get the thing out the door (and no, the cut Mission 51 wouldn't have magically fixed things). I'm interested to see what he comes up with next, but he's no longer a dev in my guaranteed solid, day 1 purchase category.

These posts also reflect my opinion on the game. The second especially makes the good points myself and others have, that the game isn't just bad in it's story. A way that I think perfectly describes the situation is that the game's mechanics are very polished, but the gameplay that results from putting these mechanics in these mostly barren and static environments, using them with half-baked bosses and with repetitive mission objectives/structures makes the game a terrible bore once you realize how shallow and samey every action feels in the end.

(Hey, now my avatar has a sort of double meaning though. It was of course originally in defense of putting Kojima and Kojima Productions' name back on the box, but now it can be seen as a reminder that Kojima was in charge of the wreck that is MGSV.)

 

[Fardeen]

I'm still feeling the phantom pain. The story was horrible. So disappointed. The game was so wrongly advertised as the missing link. When men turn into demons. And all that crap. It Hurts. Being such an mgs fan. I was so displeased. Heck even peace Walker was so much better. And that plot twist with venom was so ridiculous. This story sucked. No deep meaning about moby dick or anything. The plot was so thin. Wish I could get a refund

 

[Chola]

Your last two posts echo my thoughts exactly. I was a big fan of the mainline (console) releases but was let down by the story and mission/gameplay structure of MGSV.

Interacting with individual guards, finding ways to chain various items together to set up new and fun situations, the controls and overall feeling of moving Snakes around - all of that was terrific. But the rapidly regurgitated locales, pointlessness and stark barrenness of the open world, generally poor bosses (considering the rest of the series) and hodgepodge way the little crumbs of main story are interspersed throughout missions that otherwise all start to feel the same just left me feeling ambivalent to the whole thing.

Kojima is a very prominent and public figure in the industry, so I understand why people like jumping to his defense, but the guy had such a vast array of resources, teams, and financial support as his disposal for far more years than most devs will see in their careers, but he still failed to tie it all together into a cohesive finished product. Konami has/is doing some stupid shit right now, but I can't blame them for finally telling him to get the thing out the door (and no, the cut Mission 51 wouldn't have magically fixed things). I'm interested to see what he comes up with next, but he's no longer a dev in my guaranteed solid, day 1 purchase category.

This is Just fucking nonsense . MGS V is superbly designed, there are at least 4-5 different ways to complete a single objective, its not the game's fault if you didn't try out all the different tactics. Its not a Ubisoft-ish kind of game where they just throw a bunch of guards and some buildings and ask players to infiltrate.Bases in MGSV are highly detailed,complexly and meticulously designed and there are at least 20 of them and designing them takes a lot of time. Barren open world was a design choice not because they couldn't design an open world. Kojima clearly explained in a interview about the open world of MGSV. Yes, some parts are missing like Chapter 3 and original missions in Chapter 2 but when you look at the overall scope, it is huge and impressive for a team of 250 people.

 

[J-Roderton]

I thought it was total shit. It's the only Metal Gear game that I did not finish. I got enough out of the gameplay by the third act and now it's a coaster.

 

[Springfoot]

This is Just fucking nonsense . MGS V is superbly designed, there are at least 4-5 different ways to complete a single objective, its not the game's fault if you didn't try out all the different tactics. Its not a Ubisoft-ish kind of game where they just throw a bunch of guards and some buildings and ask players to infiltrate.Bases in MGSV are highly detailed,complexly and meticulously designed and there are at least 20 of them and designing them takes a lot of time. Barren open world was a design choice not because they couldn't design an open world. Kojima clearly explained in a interview about the open world of MGSV. Yes, some parts are missing like Chapter 3 and original missions in Chapter 2 but when you look at the overall scope, it is huge and impressive for a team of 250 people.

You already have the perfect reply to your post...in your own post. As a Kojima fan, you should enjoy just how meta it is:

This is Just fucking nonsense

 

[Alienous]

This is Just fucking nonsense . MGS V is superbly designed, there are at least 4-5 to different ways to complete a single objective, its not the game's fault if you didn't try out all the different tactics. Its not a Ubisoft-ish kind of game where they just throw a bunch of guards and some buildings and ask players to infiltrate.Bases in MGSV are highly detailed,complexly and meticulously designed and there are at least 20 of them and designing them takes a lot of time. Barren open world was a design choice not because they couldn't design an open world. Kojima clearly explained in a interview about the open world of MGSV. Yes, some parts are missing like Chapter 3 and original missions in Chapter 2 but when you look at the overall scope, it is huge and impressive for a team of 250 people.

Parts of MGSV are well designed, others aren't.

The core mechanics are fantastic - refined and they work just great.

Base design? Most of the bases are forgettable, devoid of landmarks or unique gameplay opportunities. In truth the MGO maps, which don't have the limitation of having to fit into an open-world, were better designed for the gameplay MGSV wanted. Granted they are only 4 but they would have been the 4 best bases MGSV, on par with Camp Omega in Ground Zeroes.

The Fulton system took what was always an optional pursuit whenever it was possible in playing an MGS game (playing non-lethally) and bases a core gameplay mechanic on playing in a very specific way, which severely limits the way most players will play. It also killed most of the tension involved in rescuing hostages.

The ranking system, similarly, limits your options if you care about how you are graded.

Most missions lazily drop you in with barely any context where a one minute Call of Duty style opening cutscene would have helped a lot to tie them into the overall narrative.

It has pretty glaring flaws.

 

[Mar Nosso]

I was into MGS when the stories happened in "present" time: MGS 1 and 2. When they went to the 60's/the past, I totally lost interest. I cared about Snake, the story about his clones/brothers/twins, the Metal Gear used in that sibling rivalry and conflict, the nukes, the emotional side-stories of characters like Otacon and the unique enemies encountered throughout, etc. Convincingly presented with an acceptable amount of suspension of disbelief.

When Kojima decided to focus on Boss, Big Boss, Russia (*yawn*) and all the other crap that was the opposite of what got me hooked on the series, my interest waned rapidly. Hence MGS3 was a bore fest for me, and also because I didn't find the changes in the gameplay satisfying or fun. Then MGS4 was an overwrought piece of crap with a ridiculous story to try and piece it all together. That was the nail in the coffin.

So to answer the OP: I wouldn't know, I quit the series.

 

[Kraq]

The story of this game was nothing short of a catastrophe. It didn't show how Big Boss became evil, which was the one thing it needed to do. After Kojima went on about how this game was going to break boundaries, I was expecting to see mature themes discussed such as child soldiers, rape, torture, death, corruption. I was also expecting the player to be forced to partake in many of them. Instead, we only got watered down experiences, and I honestly found it hilarious when Ocelot told me the game would be over if I shot a child soldier. Suddenly we care about the kids now?

The twist so obvious from the first 20 minutes that I can't help but feel bad for the game. It was also unneeded and added absolutely nothing to the game. Ishmael disappears after the Prologue and has no effect on the rest of the game whatsoever. The twist isn't built up at all, aside from one DNA test with Eli which is just off mentioned casually.

Speaking of Eli, I'd have thought that you would spend more time getting to know your own 'son'. Instead, he's just there, hanging out on Mother Base doing nothing for most of the game.

Why did Skull Face destroy Mother Base and why does he hate Big Boss? He says he had to clean up after Snake during the events of MGS3 and was the reason why Snake was successful with the mission and therefore, that caused resentment (why?) but all I can imagine him doing is litter picking calorie-mate wrappers that Snake leaves behind. Also, are you meaning to tell me that me, the player, was not the reason of how Snake was able to kill The Boss and instead it was Skull Face manipulating things behind the scenes, despite nothing in the game even showing the slightest hint of someone else pulling strings behind the scenes? Man, the story of MGS5 is bad.

And off topic, but I wasn't too keen on the gameplay either. The controls are the best in any game ever created, but the game lacks any notable large interiors and a lot of the time you're just wandering from one sparsely populated base to another. There's no notable boss battles in a series well known for its boss battles.

I honestly had a better Metal Gear experience playing Ground Zeroes. It's not fair to blame Konami for everything here.. Kojima had a lot of time and money to spend on this game and he came up short. I already know that I'm not going to be as hyped for his next game as I was for this.

 

[Strootman]

pure shit

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Kojima is a very prominent and public figure in the industry, so I understand why people like jumping to his defense, but the guy had such a vast array of resources, teams, and financial support as his disposal for far more years than most devs will see in their careers, but he still failed to tie it all together into a cohesive finished product. Konami has/is doing some stupid shit right now, but I can't blame them for finally telling him to get the thing out the door

You guys are speaking like MGSV was considered a universal failure, when they is definitely not the case. MGSV was one of the most critically acclaimed games of 2015. The game is on track to outsell every entry in the series.

Trying to call Kojima out on his finances seems pretty crappy. He obviously delivered on The Phantom Pain. Was it as big as a success that Konami wanted? Who knows, but to say he wasted his resources and talent is pretty lame. Most games these days are very derivative of one another. The Phantom Pain is a diamond in a box of charcoal. It's not often that a developer is given so much freedom to create such a massive and unique game. Did everyone like it? No, but to consider the Phantom Pain a failure is simply short sighted.

 

[Keasar]

It was extremely meh.

-It was too sparsely told.
-What was there was not interesting.
-It ended on a very unsatisfying note.
-Skulley-facey was a boring antagonist.
-Big Boss was extremely uninteresting and barely in the story at all. All he did was grunt and ask few worded questions once in a while. And to add to that:
-Kiefer Southerland did nothing to justify being the voice actor of Snake that David Hayter couldn't have done. He was more boring, less in the story, had none of the charm the voice of Hayter had.
-It left with a ton of questions still unasked.

+I did like Quiet and DD. Quiet, while needlessly doing her half-naked antics which I didn't mind but just felt was unnecessary, was still a pretty awesome companion. DD was just cool as fuck.

 

[Springfoot]

You guys are speaking like MGSV was considered a universal failure, when they is definitely not the case. MGSV was one of the most critically acclaimed games of 2015. The game is on track to outsell every entry in the series.

Trying to call Kojima out on his finances seems pretty crappy. He obviously delivered on The Phantom Pain. Was it as big as a success that Konami wanted? Who knows, but to say he wasted his resources and talent is pretty lame. Most games these days are very derivative of one another. The Phantom Pain is a diamond in a box of charcoal. It's not often that a developer is given so much freedom to create such a massive and unique game. Did everyone like it? No, but to consider the Phantom Pain a failure is simply short sighted.

What the hell? Talk about putting words on my mouth and then going off on random tangents that have nothing to do with what I posted.

 

[giancarlo123x]

The story is the worst part of the entire package. I've never been more disappointed by a game in that regard.

 

[Auctopus]

It's terrible and unsatisfying, the only thing worse than it is the way it's presented to the player.

 

[Foffy]

It was filth.

It was literally Resident Evil, not Metal Gear.

 

[texhnolyze]

6 months later, I still haven't finished the game.

Uninstalled it for good a few months ago.

 

[Forkball]

The game basically retcons so many major plot points in the series for the worse. I came out of the game thinking less about Ocelot, Big Boss, Solid, Liquid, Kaz, Zero etc. There are some good ideas and themes stuck in the game, but they are not really explored in any meaningful way. The gameplay is incredible, but the story is just so numbing.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

It started off so good. Chapter 1 was everything I wanted it to be. Chapter 2 onwards was a huge letdown. Chapter 3 could've reversed my opinion... if it existed.

 

[Chola]

Parts of MGSV are well designed, others aren't.

The core mechanics are fantastic - refined and they work just great.

Base design? Most of the bases are forgettable, devoid of landmarks or unique gameplay opportunities. In truth the MGO maps, which don't have the limitation of having to fit into an open-world, were better designed for the gameplay MGSV wanted. Granted they are only 4 but they would have been the 4 best bases MGSV, on par with Camp Omega in Ground Zeroes.

Ground zeroes is a vertical slice, moreover OKB is better designed than GZ with lot more varied environments and shortcuts, also expecting the entire TPP to be designed like GZ is ridiculous . It would take probably take another 5 years. Point me to another sandbox game that is as complex as MGSV. Games like GTA5, Farcry, AC and 1000 other RPG offers immersion but their level design has zero gameplay impact. Guards in riot suits and shields guarding a door or a path can make players[who wants to play it stealthy] change their tactics completely.

The Fulton system took what was always an optional pursuit whenever it was possible in playing an MGS game (playing non-lethally) and bases a core gameplay mechanic on playing in a very specific way, which severely limits the way most players will play. It also killed most of the tension involved in rescuing hostages.

Yes, Fulton is an easy win button but they become irrelevant once you start doing those optional side tasks. The game forces you to ghost rather than engaging the enemies, also don't send dispatch if you want the game to be challenging.

The ranking system, similarly, limits your options if you care about how you are graded.

Why is the ranking system stopping you from being creative.If your only intention is to S rank, then you are doing it wrong. Best way to exp. MGSV is by doing those optional side task not S ranking them. S rank is not important in MGSV, being creative in completing those side task are

I will give you an Example

Mission 32 To Know Too Much

Primary Objectives

Extract the CIA agent.

1. D-horse
2. Extract the Agent
3. S rank

Underwhelming, right

Lets look at

Secondary Objectives

1. Extract the CIA agent before his discovery by the search team

-D-horse
-Extract the Agent

2. Extract 4 search team soldiers

-Wait for the team to find the target and stun them, extract them

3. Extract the driver of the transport vehicle

- Wait for the jeep driver to arrive and while transporting the target, ambush all of the them [This makes the first two method obsolete]

4. Extract 2 prisoners from in Shago Village and Lamar Khaate Palace

- Fellow the driver and 4 search team soldiers to Lamar Khaate Palace and complete all the objective there.

5. Extract the Soviet soldier plotting to assassinate the CIA agent

- Fellow all the above steps and complete all of them at one place making the previous 4 methods obsolete

This is how most main missions are designed, you are not exp. the true MGSV if you are not completing those side task. There are only 38 main missions but no. of scenarios are at least around 80. In every other game each of these side tasks would have been a completely different mission. Thanks to ubisoft, gamer now have an aversion towards the word "Side".

 

[Punished_Snake]

Haters gonna hate. Not everyone should love it, but it seems from most of the comments in this thread that most people don't understand what the game is all about.

 

[Punished_Snake]

The story of this game was nothing short of a catastrophe. It didn't show how Big Boss became evil, which was the one thing it needed to do. After Kojima went on about how this game was going to break boundaries, I was expecting to see mature themes discussed such as child soldiers, rape, torture, death, corruption. I was also expecting the player to be forced to partake in many of them. Instead, we only got watered down experiences, and I honestly found it hilarious when Ocelot told me the game would be over if I shot a child soldier. Suddenly we care about the kids now?

It did, but not by killing children or nuking Africa.


Edit: Also "There are no facts, only interpretations" so you may call someone evil, but another person may call him an angel.

 

[ScaryShark]

Feels unfinished and unresolved and I wanted more.

That said, it's dealing with one of the least important stories/time periods in the series and I ultimately cared way less than I normally would because of how delicious the gameplay was.

I got my conclusion and closure after Guns of the Patriots. The fact that we got another MGS game that was so great mechanically and technically was enough for me.

 

[NateDog]

If only Peace Walker was the true MGS V. Dreams.

Peace Walker was dreadful. At least Ground Zeroes was great.

 

[Dweebo]

There were definitely cut parts, but overall after thinking on it for a while the story is one of my favorites in the series and the ending reveal blew me away. I think people will come around to liking it years after the fact just like they did with MGS2.

 

[GeNoMe]

Haters gonna hate. Not everyone should love it, but it seems from most of the comments in this thread that most people don't understand what the game is all about.

A lot of us who have done their homework and sure as shit do know what Kojima's endgame with TPP is. The execution of it all is just piss poor, I don't care much for the message that was (trying to be) given.
It pains me to feel and express myself like this, since I consider myself a HUGE Metal Gear fan. But hey....let's all just leave everything up to interpretation and let the narrative go to shit!

 

[Alienous]

Kojima shouldn't have been allowed to participate in writing it. At the most he should have been allowed to make suggestions.

It's tragic. He fell in love with a character who needed to make an evil turn and as a result he contorted what could have been a good end for the narrative to keep Big Boss as a good guy.

And it's not like he didn't know what Big Boss was meant to become, he just decided against executing on that. He and the other writers managed to fuck up Big Boss waking up from a coma partially brain-damaged, an amnesiac whose only memories are those of war because that's all anyone tells him about. A war hero consumed by the pursuit of revenge, as that's all he has. He's Big Boss stripped of his humanity. That dude would become a monster. You explained Big Boss' bad guy turn, Kojima. But no, nevermind, that's the fucking medic? What?

Dammit, Kojima.

 

[Angel_DvA]

A lot of us who have done their homework and sure as shit do know what Kojima's endgame with TPP is. The execution of it all is just piss poor, I don't care much for the message that was (trying to be) given.
It pains me to feel and express myself like this, since I consider myself a HUGE Metal Gear fan. But hey....let's all just leave everything up to interpretation and let the narrative go to shit!

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

 

[Chola]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

 

[brau]

Im pretty sure most people that dislike the game and like MGS can give you an essay of how they understand the game, its goals and the story and why that is something that was a big let down. At least i know i can.

The whole you don't understand it is not only condescending but you guys tend to generalize something based on impressions. Just like the same impressions that you guys are justifying the game on. The game is art... so its objective and you can make up any short coming as interpretation. Well guess what.. art works the same way when people don't like it. But for the most part that is not the issue. My complaint is that the story is not interesting. The themes never really get to fully develop, in a world where there was a lot going on. The impact of the story falls short and in the end we are left with a filler story that bridges MGS old and new.

Whether or not the story is good a lot of people really make some good points on why the story is good or not. That should not be discredited by saying "well they obviously didn't get it" or "i am a mgs fan so i appreciate what Kojima does, hence mgsv is a masterpiece"

 

[TheStruggler]

What story?

first post nails it, worst mgs game story wise, however best gameplay in an mgs game

 

[GeNoMe]

You're both right though, reading some people here shows that many of them don't understand what the game was about, they probably didn't care to listen to all the tapes, to have finished all the tasks/secondary mission or took the time to digest everything before commenting...

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

You just became one of my favourite persons. I really cannot argue with you on that one!

 

[Jacknapes]

Ground Zeroes showed potential for what Phantom Pain could have been, and i was excited about it. It's too bad Phantom Pain was a bit of a let down overall. Don't get me wrong, i loved some of the missions and the side-ops.

But the story was iffy at best (for me).

 

[Palculator]

We're in a day of age when everything is drowning under the deluge of preformatted works that invade us from every direction, we consume rapidly, bear a critical opinion on the instant and move on... almost nobodies speaks with their memory or feelings now, they're just following the general consensus or their favorite YouTubers/popcasters etc... or put attention too much on other people critics and don't even try the game...

The Phantom Pain is an artwork to remember in this shitty pop culture that won't stop hurting those kind of ambitious project... why bothers to create something when every generic games like COD, AC, Destiny, The Division, Fifa etc... are massive commercial success ? MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

Cheers.

 

[Nuu]

The entire game was disappointing as hell from nearly every single aspect.

The game was in my top 3 GOTY, but the more time passes, the less kindly I look upon it.

 

[brau]

You just became one of my favourite persons. I really cannot argue with you on that one!

I don't know man... i talk very passionately about MGSV... heck, i even spent an insane amount of money giving away copies to celebrate the event of it releasing. I adore MGS, its a series that is smart, but also dumb. Its contrived but also very exciting.

Kojima sure likes to move on to new territories and i have major respect for him. But its important to recognize things for what they are. The story is not the main point of MGSV... its not even the center of attention. Some fans really want the full experience to be a good balance between attention to detail, innovative design, tight gameplay and a crazy and interesting story. The story to me fell short, and it has nothing to do with my appreciation of MGSV or how its outside of the mold.

Justifying the game by saying well, its different so its great that way is missing the mark by a long shot, because that is not what the impressions on the story is trying to discuss.

 

[papo]

I loved the game. The story was classic MGS crazy stuff. The gameplay was sublime.

Also even if the story was nuts, the presentation of it and the intro/outro chapters were amazing. I think it is the last game which I have played that has made me feel that amazing game/ next gen/ wow feeling I haven't had in a long time. GOTY for me.

To me it speaks to how good the game is that it was and felt incomplete yet it was still this good. I can only imagine the game if Kojima would have been allowed to finish it.

 

[AwShucks]

As much as I love some parts for their Metal Gear qualities, it's the worst Metal Gear story there is. Quiet sucks.

 

[akidnamededdy]

This is Just fucking nonsense . MGS V is superbly designed, there are at least 4-5 different ways to complete a single objective, its not the game's fault if you didn't try out all the different tactics. Its not a Ubisoft-ish kind of game where they just throw a bunch of guards and some buildings and ask players to infiltrate.Bases in MGSV are highly detailed,complexly and meticulously designed and there are at least 20 of them and designing them takes a lot of time. Barren open world was a design choice not because they couldn't design an open world. Kojima clearly explained in a interview about the open world of MGSV. Yes, some parts are missing like Chapter 3 and original missions in Chapter 2 but when you look at the overall scope, it is huge and impressive for a team of 250 people.

Hahha the fuck? This is EXACTLY what you're doing. Here's another guard station, figure out how to get by it. Here's a slightly bigger base, figure out how to infiltrate it.

Are you saying that the barrenness of the open world was an intentional design choice? Because that doesn't really speak well of Kojima as a designer if that's true. Making an open world game with an intentionally barren open world would be a shitty design choice, and you don't need to be a game developer to know that.

This is something that has been said a lot before, and I agree--TPP would have been better served as a collection of 8-10 or so Ground Zeroes style closed areas instead of the two sprawling empty voids we did get. Camp Omega was dense, every bit of it felt like it had a purpose.

 

[brau]

Hahha the fuck? This is EXACTLY what you're doing. Here's another guard station, figure out how to get by it. Here's a slightly bigger base, figure out how to infiltrate it.

Are you saying that the barrenness of the open world was an intentional design choice? Because that doesn't really speak well of Kojima as a designer if that's true. Making an open world game with an intentionally barren open world would be a shitty design choice, and you don't need to be a game developer to know that.

This is something that has been said a lot before, and I agree--TPP would have been better served as a collection of 8-10 or so Ground Zeroes style closed areas instead of the two sprawling empty voids we did get. Camp Omega was dense, every bit of it felt like it had a purpose.

This is where more people side that GZ felt better as an experience. An open space that was full of events and interesting design. One that changed depending on what you decide to do first or not, and allowed you to play on every space differently, because the game demanded that from you. The empty space of MGSV was a big issue in the long run... but that seems to be something that doesn't bother everyone.

MGSV seems like a game from a different age and it's saddened me...

The thing that saddens me the most is that this game lends itself to interesting discussions. But for the most part the discussions end on its garbage, or you don't get it. There is no back and forth discussing why it clicks with you or not. Why the game represented something else for you personally or didn't.

MGS games have been a topic of discussion and as a fan i love talking about it. I have major issues with this one, but that doesn't take away my curiosity to know what other people think. But that seems to be an issue in forums where people think that discussing and talking about the game is a personal attack to try to change peoples mind.

There are quite a few people that place their opinions and follow up on whys, and they want to have a back and forth on why with someone else that thinks differently. At least that is what i look for when i come to threads like this. I already get validated that i am not the only one that doesn't feel like the game delivered in a lot of ways, but its interesting to know things that maybe i was missing. Some of the most interesting conversations i've had are with a friend on twitter that loves the story, and i don't, and i have a blast discussing why.

People neglecting this is a shame imo.

 

[GeNoMe]

I don't know man... i talk very passionately about MGSV... heck, i even spent an insane amount of money giving away copies to celebrate the event of it releasing. I adore MGS, its a series that is smart, but also dumb. Its contrived but also very exciting.

Kojima sure likes to move on to new territories and i have major respect for him. But its important to recognize things for what they are. The story is not the main point of MGSV... its not even the center of attention. Some fans really want the full experience to be a good balance between attention to detail, innovative design, tight gameplay and a crazy and interesting story. The story to me fell short, and it has nothing to do with my appreciation of MGSV or how its outside of the mold.

Justifying the game by saying well, its different so its great that way is missing the mark by a long shot, because that is not what the impressions on the story is trying to discuss.

I hear ya. Fact of the matter is, Kojima and his peers missed the ball by a long shot. I'm not afraid of new things. MGS V was already transformed with it having an episodic narrative, the absence of David Hayter, and it's dark tone to name a few. This alone was a lot to digest. But to find out that I had more fun speculating and fantasising about what could have been, instead of the released product saddens me to no end.

On the other hand though....now that I think of it? I can't be sad about everything pre-V. I had a shit ton of fun thinking about the ultimate revenge story. Those were some fun times indeed.

 

[Palculator]

The thing that saddens me the most is that this game lends itself to interesting discussions. But for the most part the discussions end on its garbage, or you don't get it. There is no back and forth discussing why it clicks with you or not. Why the game represented something else for you personally or didn't.

MGS games have been a topic of discussion and as a fan i love talking about it. I have major issues with this one, but that doesn't take away my curiosity to know what other people think. But that seems to be an issue in forums where people think that discussing and talking about the game is a personal attack to try to change peoples mind.

People neglecting this is a shame imo.

Maybe I'm just getting hung up over words, but that's generally because debates which are centred around "I like it" or "I don't like it" ("click with", as you say) are doomed from the start. That just ends with people rationalising their subjective experience with the game instead of approaching and discussing it in a way that relates to the people they are talking to. Something you're aware of, I'm sure, considering you have consistently pointed out people seeing something in the game doesn't mean it's good -- which I agree with only adding not seeing anything in it doesn't make it bad either. They're debates that miss the point, frankly, because critique isn't about convincing either party something is good or bad or even to enjoy it or not (not like that's actually possible but feels like people act that way.)

As for me personally, I'm still not entirely sure six months is early enough to pass proper judgement because I usually let stories percolate for longer but I've been meaning to write down my thoughts properly, just haven't had the time to do so in the depth I'd like to.

 

[Arttemis]

As easy as it is to hate Konami, it's kind of easy to get where they're coming from in this case. Work on this game was surely happening long before the "Project Ogre" reveal in 2012, especially factoring in the totally superfluous development of a new game engine. Plenty of other devs have put out complete, satisfying games in less time. I'm going to give his next game a fair shake, but TPP has soured my faith in Kojima's supposed brilliance. But hey, at least he got to plaster his own name at the front of every story mission in the game.

What, are you serious? The development of a new game engine is only superfluous due to the fact that Konami has abandoned the gaming industry. If they had continued to make games, the new game engine would have been utilized to more efficiently release gorgeous games that can release on two generations of consoles. MGSV is a gorgeous 1080p/60fps title, and it never got a chance at iterative improvements over the course of this generation. Konami is absolutely to blame for that.

Also, plenty of other devs have been attempting to create new engines for this generation and are falling flat on their face! Luminos and Panta Rhei are nowhere to be seen despite being in development for just as long as MGSV - meanwhile, Kojima Productions released a gigantic open world that runs at 1080p 60fps while being stupidly gorgeous and feature best-in-genre gameplay mechanics.

 

[Chola]

Hahha the fuck? This is EXACTLY what you're doing. Here's another guard station, figure out how to get by it. Here's a slightly bigger base, figure out how to infiltrate it.

Designing a level like puzzle and designing a level with lot of building are different things. MGSV levels are designed like puzzles with multiple entries/exits and lot of hidden paths like a hidden cracks on a wall, or a hidden sewer tunnel, a ladder a hole on the 2nd floor etc, you can skip a entire base by riding on the back of the trunk etc or jump from top of the hill and landing on a guard post and infiltrate the base etc and top of that constantly adapting enemies will force you to change up your tactics. There is nothing like this in any of the ubisoft games. 1:1 recreation of italy serves only one purpose immersion they don't help the core gameplay by any means.

Are you saying that the barrenness of the open world was an intentional design choice? Because that doesn't really speak well of Kojima as a designer if that's true. Making an open world game with an intentionally barren open world would be a shitty design choice, and you don't need to be a game developer to know that.

Filling the entire map with shit doesn't make the open world better as well. MGSV open world is not your typical RPG open world where you talk to NPCs and get chores done. It is just a backdrop . The meat of the game is in its restricted main missions and its optional side tasks. There is reason why the game has mission select. Its specifically designed for players to replay the missions and try different tactics and complete side task. First of all how many of you actually replayed those old missions and tried out different stuff. Guess ubisoft has ruined the concept of open world with its shitty "hamster on a wheel" game design

This is something that has been said a lot before, and I agree--TPP would have been better served as a collection of 8-10 or so Ground Zeroes style closed areas instead of the two sprawling empty voids we did get. Camp Omega was dense, every bit of it felt like it had a purpose.

haha, people would have still complained for not being huge enough. Yes, not all bases are as complex as GZ but quantity with good quality makes up for it.

 

[stuminus3]

All I know is I played about 25 hours then decided just to spoil the twist for myself because I guessed the twist at the start of the game (it's pretty obvious) and couldn't be bothered forcing myself through mission after mission just to see if I had guessed correctly. Never done that with a MGS game before.

It's kind of a shame that there's still a massive disconnect between Big Boss as we play him and Big Boss as he is at the start of Metal Gear and it's a hole that will probably exist forever. All these years building up to nothing.

I look forward to returning to the game at some point without the burden of wanting to see what happens next in the story, though.

 

[Mathezar]

Extremely disappointing in all areas except for graphics and gameplay mechanics. That is all.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

It's a complete waste. I think Kojima did intend for there to be more games but then Konami kicked him out and here we are.

 

[Angel_DvA]

All I know is I played about 25 hours then decided just to spoil the twist for myself because I guessed the twist at the start of the game (it's pretty obvious) and couldn't be bothered forcing myself through mission after mission just to see if I had guessed correctly. Never done that with a MGS game before.

lol, not sure if serious anymore...

 

[Salaadin]

It's one of the best games I played last year. Also one of the most forgettable.

Looking forward to what Kojima works on next. I really feel like he's burned out on mgs and that, combined with Konami being shitty, lead to a lot of weird and bad decisions with this game.

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

..... Thanks to ubisoft, gamer now have an aversion towards the word "Side".

Why ubisoft?