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King of Fighters XIV Roster Discussion thread. Leaked roster in first post

BadWolf

Member
So do we know for a fact that other than the addition of characters this is the same build in terms of how everything else works? I remember an interview where it was acknowledged that hops and runs were slightly slower and felt off to some people and they said it would be fixed but it looks the same to me.

This build seems to be the same as the one shown in Hong Kong at the end of January.

- It seems to be visually better than the PSX build (the difference in Andy's character select portrait is like night and day)
- Game speed seems the same?
- The properties on max mode activation have been changed. In the PSX build it would 'pause' time and let the player react to the opponent more easily. In this build it just activates like in XIII.
- This build is the first time we saw Advanced Cancels, though we don't know if they weren't present in the PSX build or if people just didn't think to do them (it was actually the producer of XIV who showed the mechanic at the HK showing).
 
I just now realized this-
The game won't have a 2D cover art would it...
I wouldn't rule it out, I believe they're holding back on the artwork until most of the roster has been unveiled, most importantly the new Hero Team

Edit: I'm still expecting a great cover and not just a render of Kyo and Iori facing off like that banner they currently have on their website, 2d or 3d.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Hmm, I was hoping there's be more talk after all the gameplay from earlier.

I'm overall quite happy with what I'm seeing. Once things start moving, it's pretty authentic, and even more and more so as we see more of it.

Not to mention this is an old build, so it's gotten even better since. This just hypes me up more for the April event.

Am I the only one actually impressed by how well they convert some of the 2D elements? Capcom games have a lot of "this is impressive for 3D!" stuff with characters like 'sim, but other than that, a lot of stuff is just... what you expect of a normal fighting character model.

But I really love the ways they've come up with to replicate the very KoF style mannerisms. Looking at Billy's Staff Spin, and the way it bends when he does his DP, the black swoops on Leona's strikes that mimic anime-style motion blur, all the detail to get Kula's hair to replicate the motions it has in her 2D sprite, seeing how Robert's Haoushoukoken "toss" is unique between his DM and EXDM variants... it's just good to see them being so ambitious to cover such per-character minutia with such a large cast.
 
Hmm, I was hoping there's be more talk after all the gameplay from earlier.

I'm overall quite happy with what I'm seeing. Once things start moving, it's pretty authentic, and even more and more so as we see more of it.

Not to mention this is an old build, so it's gotten even better since. This just hypes me up more for the April event.

Am I the only one actually impressed by how well they convert some of the 2D elements? Capcom games have a lot of "this is impressive for 3D!" stuff with characters like 'sim, but other than that, a lot of stuff is just... what you expect of a normal fighting character model.

But I really love the ways they've come up with to replicate the very KoF style mannerisms. Looking at Billy's Staff Spin, and the way it bends when he does his DP, the black swoops on Leona's strikes that mimic anime-style motion blur, all the detail to get Kula's hair to replicate the motions it has in her 2D sprite, seeing how Robert's Haoushoukoken "toss" is unique between his DM and EXDM variants... it's just good to see them being so ambitious to cover such per-character minutia with such a large cast.

I think the animations are done hand made, unlike street fighter V where they are physics based.I'm simply talking about hair,clothing animations. I could be wrong.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Tizoc: Is that really all you see? Combo length isn't much like 13. Dream Cancels don't really seem to exist. Damage scaling is possibly different. Use of Normals as Anti-airs looks pretty strong. XIII definitely didn't have Wall and ground bounces. Will New Auto-combos really help characters that sometimes had issues confirming bigger damage out out light confirms?

I also noticed a lot of standing normals whiffing on ducking characters. There where so many lights that covered all bases in XIII, that it actually kept surprising me.

I think the animations are done hand made, unlike street fighter V where they are physics based.I'm simply talking about hair,clothing animations. I could be wrong.

It's what I think too. It's real nice to see, personally, because it helps maintain some of that 2D personality quite well.
 

Tizoc

Member
Eh much like how 13 added in ex moves, insee rebounds and wall bounce as merely additions to the formula than a major change
 

JayEH

Junior Member
It's cool that they are bringing the game out to events but I would really like some direct feed footage. They should look into doing livestreams or something even if its only in Japanese.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
*shrug* If you think so. Considering one of the biggest complaints levied against XIII was "combo length", the fact these changes directly shift that into "less hits, more control" seems like a major change in the illustration of a max damage combo, and the length of time expected to complete a round.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Eh much like how 13 added in ex moves, insee rebounds and wall bounce as merely additions to the formula than a major change

Weren't there wall bounce moves in previous KOF games you could use for free juggle starters.

Like some of the KOF2k1 and 2k2 that had a Counter Wire effect.
 

Tizoc

Member
*shrug* If you think so. Considering one of the biggest complaints levied against XIII was "combo length", the fact these changes directly shift that into "less hits, more control" seems like a major change in the illustration of a max damage combo, and the length of time expected to complete a round.
We just havent figurd out the long combos yet ;D
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
It's cool that they are bringing the game out to events but I would really like some direct feed footage. They should look into doing livestreams or something even if its only in Japanese.

They started to do Direct Feed towards KoF XIII's release time. But we have an event at the end of April, so maybe they'll loosen up the reigns once that presumedly more up-to-date build premieres.

Weren't there wall bounce moves in previous KOF games you could use for free juggle starters.

Like some of the KOF2k1 and 2k2 that had a Counter Wire effect.

I mostly remember Counter Wire from Neowave. XII also had the spin-around counter hit, that got repurposed into special spin animations during Ranbus and stuff in XIII.

We just havent figurd out the long combos yet ;D

Quite likely, but they've already stated they wanted to keep things less insane than XIII's combo length. Some people are already calling for damage to be increased, lol.
 

OmegaDL50

Member
Yeah I distinctly recall using Maxima's Vapor Canon in KOF2k1 for Wallbounce shenanigans.

Also the final kick in Robert's Kyokugen Kick Dance launched the opponent across the screen and result in a bounce which I lead into an easy 5 hit SDM combo when ended with the Haoh Sho Koh Ken.

I think even some of this stuff carried over even into 2k2 UM.
 
I'm not savvy enough to talk about the gameplay, especially since(excluding Andy) I'm not well versed with the current playable cast. Maybe when they start adding characters I do know about(Kensou,Maxima,etc.) I can talk more about the gameplay.

So I guess SNK is gonna go radio silent till mid to late april?
 

BadWolf

Member
*shrug* If you think so. Considering one of the biggest complaints levied against XIII was "combo length", the fact these changes directly shift that into "less hits, more control" seems like a major change in the illustration of a max damage combo, and the length of time expected to complete a round.

There are some pretty big changes going on for sure.

The drive cancel system may have been removed but now ground bounce and the universal wall bounce (which functions differently from the Counter Wire that just a few characters in XIII had) have been added. These systems should make combos interesting both outside of and while in max mode. Wall bounce max mode combos should be pretty sweet, especially when combined with ground bounce, Advanced Cancels etc.

What's really interesting about the system changes in XIV is how the overall flow of battle and damage will change due to how meter usage works now.

There is quite a bit that you can do with just 1 power bar now:

1. Guardcancel rolls and blowbacks.
2. Max mode combos.
3. Raw activation for up to 5 or so EX moves.
4. Super.
5. Super cancels.

Rush combos will mostly be used by beginners, for anyone above that level it would be a complete waste of meter. This is how I expect players to use 1 power bar:

Beginner: Rush combo
Intermediate: Normals > special > super
Advanced: Normals > max mode > normals > EX moves > super

That is quite the difference in damage. What the advanced player in particular can do is pretty beefy for just 1 power bar.

So overall due to the removal of cancel systems and due to the way meter consumption now works, it seems the long combos from XIII will be gone and instead replaced with more abundant mid-sized combos.

A very important change with the change in cost of super cancels (i.e. there is no additional cost aside from needing 1 bar for the super) is that raw super canceling has become a whole lot more dangerous.

In particular, the risk of jumping has been increased by quite a bit. In XIII the risk/reward favored the jumper (if he hits then he gets a big combo, if he gets anti-aired then he usually eats very little damge) but in XIV the balance has shifted with the defending player being given a bigger opportunity to punish. Imo invincible anti-airs/reversals into super cancels will be a pretty big factor in XIV.
 

TreIII

Member
So overall due to the removal of cancel systems and due to the way meter consumption now works, it seems the long combos from XIII will be gone and instead replaced with more abundant mid-sized combos.

And this would be just fine with me, if true. It'd just be doing more to return to the kind of things possible in 98/02UM.
 

Loona

Member
I'm not savvy enough to talk about the gameplay, especially since(excluding Andy) I'm not well versed with the current playable cast. Maybe when they start adding characters I do know about(Kensou,Maxima,etc.) I can talk more about the gameplay.

So I guess SNK is gonna go radio silent till mid to late april?

They post daily screenshots on Twitter and Facebook, and on at least one occasion that included a hint of a character that was revealed via video on the very same day (Tung).

So it's not complete silence, but who knows what can be extrapolated from well-chosen screens...
 
They post daily screenshots on Twitter and Facebook, and on at least one occasion that included a hint of a character that was revealed via video on the very same day (Tung).

So it's not complete silence, but who knows what can be extrapolated from well-chosen screens...
Oh yeah I forgot about those.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Yeah I distinctly recall using Maxima's Vapor Canon in KOF2k1 for Wallbounce shenanigans.

Vapor Cannon counter-hit wallbounce was so fun, but I'm glad he actually got the ability to basically do it himself with EX Vapor in XIII. It took it from being a nice bonus, to a true part of his gameplay.

Also the final kick in Robert's Kyokugen Kick Dance launched the opponent across the screen and result in a bounce which I lead into an easy 5 hit SDM combo when ended with the Haoh Sho Koh Ken.

I think even some of this stuff carried over even into 2k2 UM.

I don't remember the Robert part as well, but I hope he has such tools in XIV. I really wanted to like him more in XIV, as I've always been a fan of the Zanretsuken / Genei'Kyaku stuff, but he just missed out on a few points that'd make him more solid...

There are some pretty big changes going on for sure.

The drive cancel system may have been removed but now ground bounce and the universal wall bounce (which functions differently from the Counter Wire that just a few characters in XIII had) have been added. These systems should make combos interesting both outside of and while in max mode. Wall bounce max mode combos should be pretty sweet, especially when combined with ground bounce, Advanced Cancels etc.

It's weird, because I really liked the Drive cancels in XIII... they flowed so well. it was beautiful. But putting in more obvious transition points like this is probably a great way to make such things congeal for the average player.

What's really interesting about the system changes in XIV is how the overall flow of battle and damage will change due to how meter usage works now.

There is quite a bit that you can do with just 1 power bar now:

1. Guardcancel rolls and blowbacks.
2. Max mode combos.
3. Raw activation for up to 5 or so EX moves.
4. Super.
5. Super cancels.

It might actually be too crazy. SRK peeps are wondering why you wouldn't just use MAX all the time with the power it looks like it gives now. The idea of locking EX's behind a power mode seems really unique for a fighter in general.

I feel like I enjoyed XIII's meter meta more than most KoF's, personally. I never got much out of BC cancels in 2k2UM, because the system honestly felt a bit convoluted and like it favored a small portion of the cast. But with the power being so wide-spread in XII, I felt like it was something I needed to get better at for any character I had in my anchor position.

98's max mode was a thing that existed when I wasn't all that deep into extraneous systems like it, so even now, I don't focus on it as well as I should. Even so, it still feels so much like the normal fighter "Save meter for round ending supers!" system, that I don't find it as memorable as meter being a multi-faceted resource like it was in XIII, and now XIV.

Rush combos will mostly be used by beginners, for anyone above that level it would be a complete waste of meter. This is how I expect players to use 1 power bar:

Beginner: Rush combo
Intermediate: Normals > special > super
Advanced: Normals > max mode > normals > EX moves > super

That is quite the difference in damage. What the advanced player in particular can do is pretty beefy for just 1 power bar.

So overall due to the removal of cancel systems and due to the way meter consumption now works, it seems the long combos from XIII will be gone and instead replaced with more abundant mid-sized combos.

Do we know if rushes can be canceled halfway through? I can see them being worth using to right before the meter portion for many characters, if so. Since they give access to what looks to be unique normals, if any of those leave an enemy at frame disadvantage or at neutral with you, it might be useful as even an advanced tactic.

A very important change with the change in cost of super cancels (i.e. there is no additional cost aside from needing 1 bar for the super) is that raw super canceling has become a whole lot more dangerous.

In particular, the risk of jumping has been increased by quite a bit. In XIII the risk/reward favored the jumper (if he hits then he gets a big combo, if he gets anti-aired then he usually eats very little damge) but in XIV the balance has shifted with the defending player being given a bigger opportunity to punish. Imo invincible anti-airs/reversals into super cancels will be a pretty big factor in XIV.

And with jumps being "slow" and easier to read, this could be very dangerous indeed. Of course, we still have hops, but still.

People on SRK won't stop talking about how weak AA normals were in XIII. It's funny, because I think that's the game that really helped AA weak normal as hop guard really click for me. JP players do a lot of instant-leap-back jump normals, and throw out best AA normals during dead time because of their strength. But while there were a lot more trades rather than pure dominance of C / D anti-airs in XIII, I didn't really mind this.

I more dislike the lack of fresh normal animations for the situations at times. Such as Vice's Cr.C being a shoulder, rather than her 98 style uppercut. Or how much weaker her Far C. Range was, since she didn't nearly shoot off her arm as she does in 98. Instead it was a more standard-range punch, not particularly special.

They post daily screenshots on Twitter and Facebook, and on at least one occasion that included a hint of a character that was revealed via video on the very same day (Tung).

So it's not complete silence, but who knows what can be extrapolated from well-chosen screens...

I hope at some point we graduate to "Matchplay of the day", heh. This was the "screen" for today, BTW:

CeFOKU0UkAEOHRC.jpg:orig
 

BadWolf

Member
Speaking of Advanced Cancels, which characters are you guys looking forward to trying the mechanic with?

From the known character supers, it's Ralf for me.

Can't wait to charge up a Galactica Phantom to hit them out of the air while they are falling from the Bareback Vulcan finisher, and vice versa.

It's weird, because I really liked the Drive cancels in XIII... they flowed so well. it was beautiful. But putting in more obvious transition points like this is probably a great way to make such things congeal for the average player.

I loved the drive cancel system as well and had hoped that it would become the norm for the series along with EX moves. On the other hand though I guess it's nice that they aren't afraid of leaving behind previous mechanics and introducing new ones when a new story arc starts.

Having drive cancels in addition to wall bounce and ground bounce would have been a sight to see lol.

It might actually be too crazy. SRK peeps are wondering why you wouldn't just use MAX all the time with the power it looks like it gives now. The idea of locking EX's behind a power mode seems really unique for a fighter in general.

Meter usage and management in XIII definitely felt more refined than 2002UM etc. I often see people sit on a lot of stock with nothing to use it on in UM. And like you said, the BC system was not well implemented throughout the cast, while in XIII it was extremely well implemented even among grapplers.

Max mode activation does seem pretty powerful right now but at the same time it stops you from building meter and you won't be able to do normals > activate style combos.

And like discussed before, the idea of EX moves in max mode is great for both advanced and beginner players, unlike HD/BC modes which were just for the advanced.

It's actually a really smart compromise between having EX moves ala XIII and yet 'not having' them ala the old KOFs.

Do we know if rushes can be canceled halfway through? I can see them being worth using to right before the meter portion for many characters, if so. Since they give access to what looks to be unique normals, if any of those leave an enemy at frame disadvantage or at neutral with you, it might be useful as even an advanced tactic.

Iirc people who tried them at PSX said that you couldn't do anything with them aside from that built in auto combo.

If you don't have meter than it finishes with a special, if you do then a super instead. That was it.

It would probably be a little too useful to have a long hit confirm like that into whatever you want hehe.

I hope at some point we graduate to "Matchplay of the day", heh. This was the "screen" for today, BTW:

Well for one thing it would be nice to see matches between people who aren't complete noobs. They released some matches between devs back around XIII's release iirc.
 

Daft Punk

Banned
Anything to make the game more about positioning and mid range combos the better. One of the biggest things that turned me off about XIII was trying to learn all of those long ass combos and activating HD to get big damage. Shit sucked.
 
Cancelling a super into an EX super.

In XIII you could only cancel supers into a Neomax.

EDIT: Via reddit, King got quite the gluteus maximus upgrade:
The compression in this photo actually does the game's look a lot of favors

If they can add like a slight smear filter (or something) over the image it'd look great.
 

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
i like that they're putting up stage art for the picture of the day. hope they do that more.

Yup. I hope they troll us before the next new character by showing art of their stage "And here's the Pao Pa- oops!"

Speaking of Advanced Cancels, which characters are you guys looking forward to trying the mechanic with?

From the known character supers, it's Ralf for me.

Can't wait to charge up a Galactica Phantom to hit them out of the air while they are falling from the Bareback Vulcan finisher, and vice versa.

Sounds like a great idea. I'll go with Maxima, and Leona. Especially if I get back MAXIMA REVENGA! I quite miss that move. To INSTANTLY have the enemy in the air, grabbed by the face, and ready to play hackeysack with was great. Grand Saber DM into EX V-Slasher, hopefully. too. I was glad to see her have Saber's followup back, hopefully it's a useful super cancel tool

I loved the drive cancel system as well and had hoped that it would become the norm for the series along with EX moves. On the other hand though I guess it's nice that they aren't afraid of leaving behind previous mechanics and introducing new ones when a new story arc starts.

Yup, I hope the new hit states feel similar to it. Since it was basically "linking EXes to EXes", it should feel similar.

Having drive cancels in addition to wall bounce and ground bounce would have been a sight to see lol.

BROKE! BROKEN!

Meter usage and management in XIII definitely felt more refined than 2002UM etc. I often see people sit on a lot of stock with nothing to use it on in UM. And like you said, the BC system was not well implemented throughout the cast, while in XIII it was extremely well implemented even among grapplers.

I LOVED how it worked for grapplers just as well. Even more painful that Maxima didn't have his Grapple DM, heh. *ahem* While I loved it, I don't know if it made them more effective?

Iirc people who tried them at PSX said that you couldn't do anything with them aside from that built in auto combo.

If you don't have meter than it finishes with a special, if you do then a super instead. That was it.

It would probably be a little too useful to have a long hit confirm like that into whatever you want hehe.
I remember trying to do similar with some characters in P4 arena. It'd be nice to just have a decent multi-hit confirm or way to put people back to neutral with you.

Well for one thing it would be nice to see matches between people who aren't complete noobs. They released some matches between devs back around XIII's release iirc.

I thought most of the people in the recent vids were pretty ok, and it looked more like they were trying to get to grips with the game, rather than not knowing how to play. Maybe SNKP will put out fights between internal devs before the JP tourney, to give them an idea what to aim for, however...

Anything to make the game more about positioning and mid range combos the better. One of the biggest things that turned me off about XIII was trying to learn all of those long ass combos and activating HD to get big damage. Shit sucked.

I always kinda found it funny that people didn't shift over to Normals-> EX's, or DM -> Neomax. It might not have been as strong and game-ending as the best HDs, But it was still plentry strong enough for the average opponent.

I'll definitely be glad to see basically Touch-of-Death style stuff gone, though. Let's see what max meter does in this game...
 

Tizoc

Member
King finally has something to compete against Mai with :V

Have a non Lewd King image in compensation
X0Ernq1.jpg
 

BadWolf

Member
Additional KOF14 videos from PSArena event.

I always kinda found it funny that people didn't shift over to Normals-> EX's, or DM -> Neomax. It might not have been as strong and game-ending as the best HDs, But it was still plentry strong enough for the average opponent.

Yeah it seems a lot of people didn't realize how easy and powerful those options were.

With Ryo:

Normals > HD > normals > neomax (65% damage)

Normals > HD > normals > super > neomax (over 80% damage)

You could simplify things even further by using HD bypass and still end up with comparable damage for very little effort.
 

Relique

Member
There are some pretty big changes going on for sure.

The drive cancel system may have been removed but now ground bounce and the universal wall bounce (which functions differently from the Counter Wire that just a few characters in XIII had) have been added. These systems should make combos interesting both outside of and while in max mode. Wall bounce max mode combos should be pretty sweet, especially when combined with ground bounce, Advanced Cancels etc.

What's really interesting about the system changes in XIV is how the overall flow of battle and damage will change due to how meter usage works now.

There is quite a bit that you can do with just 1 power bar now:

1. Guardcancel rolls and blowbacks.
2. Max mode combos.
3. Raw activation for up to 5 or so EX moves.
4. Super.
5. Super cancels.

Rush combos will mostly be used by beginners, for anyone above that level it would be a complete waste of meter. This is how I expect players to use 1 power bar:

Beginner: Rush combo
Intermediate: Normals > special > super
Advanced: Normals > max mode > normals > EX moves > super

That is quite the difference in damage. What the advanced player in particular can do is pretty beefy for just 1 power bar.

So overall due to the removal of cancel systems and due to the way meter consumption now works, it seems the long combos from XIII will be gone and instead replaced with more abundant mid-sized combos.

A very important change with the change in cost of super cancels (i.e. there is no additional cost aside from needing 1 bar for the super) is that raw super canceling has become a whole lot more dangerous.

In particular, the risk of jumping has been increased by quite a bit. In XIII the risk/reward favored the jumper (if he hits then he gets a big combo, if he gets anti-aired then he usually eats very little damge) but in XIV the balance has shifted with the defending player being given a bigger opportunity to punish. Imo invincible anti-airs/reversals into super cancels will be a pretty big factor in XIV.

Very good post. I agree with what you said about the meter use and I hope this brings some fresh blood into the franchise. It's hard enough for a new player to learn 3 characters without having to worry about long combos. "Normals > max mode > normals > EX moves > super" should be a good compromise to be accessible enough while still appealing to KOF13 fans like me.

About the jumps being slower. I hated it at first but I actually think they make sense. The game is a bit slower in general and more footsie based it seems. Although I think the jumps could be sped up just a hair I still think they should remain slower than 13.

One problem I have continuing to play 13 is that very few players still play it, and ones that do are really good with relentless hop pressure. I tend to default low block and switch high at the last possible frames which is fine offline but is a habit that is getting me destroyed online due to lag. Slowing the jumps down could go a long in making the game feel playable even if the netcode is only as good as KOF13 steam edition.
 
One problem I have continuing to play 13 is that very few players still play it, and ones that do are really good with relentless hop pressure. I tend to default low block and switch high at the last possible frames which is fine offline but is a habit that is getting me destroyed online due to lag. Slowing the jumps down could go a long in making the game feel playable even if the netcode is only as good as KOF13 steam edition.

Eh. Not a fan of making the game even slightly worse strictlty for the sake of online play. KOF's speed is one of the greatest things about it. The game doesn't need to be slower to emphasize the neutral either.
 

BadWolf

Member
Good quality vids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAG19gxsaXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZhuZ79sC8

The character select portraits have come a long way since PSX, Andy in particular seems to have jumped a few console generations forward.

Oh and about that second vid, Leona is rather... jiggly. Especially in the neutral stance.

You can also see Kula's new throw.

About the jumps being slower. I hated it at first but I actually think they make sense. The game is a bit slower in general and more footsie based it seems. Although I think the jumps could be sped up just a hair I still think they should remain slower than 13.

The issue right now is that 99% of the match vids out there for 14 contain low to complete noob levels of play. So we really can't judge the speed of the game properly right now.

The difference in game speed between low and high level play in 13 is like night and day, after all.

Also, the jumps have been slowed down a bit in 14 compared to 13 but on the other hand it feels like the ground movement has been sped up. Running in particular feels fast and characters go from one side of the screen to the other really quickly.
 
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