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[MchugN]

I know this is anecdotal, but none of my friends who do not visit GAF or Reddit, etc., and own PS4's even knows about this. When told, they shrugged, lol.

Only use core nuts are making big deals about this from my personal experience.

I mentioned it to a buddy at work who is a PS4 gamer. All he said was "Fuck that". He doesn't have a 4K tv so it didn't interest him. Also, he didn't go on a rant about switching to PC gaming and how all his future PS4 games will be downgraded.

 

[JeffG]

I know this is anecdotal, but none of my friends who do not visit GAF or Reddit, etc., and own PS4's even knows about this. When told, they shrugged, lol.

Only us core nuts are making big deals about this from my personal experience.

My step son is pumped for it. I will probably buy his PS4 off him (to put in my man cave) to help him pay for the PS4K

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

You are missing the point entirely.

You don't have a point, you think it is a great idea so are belittling people who think it is a monumentally stupid decision with silly comments.

 

[GlamFM]

You don't have a point, you think it is a great idea so are belittling people who think it is a monumentally stupid decision with silly comments.

Your rage is really starting to affect your reading skills buddy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So long as the same games can be played on it the casual audience isn't going to give a fuck. They'll have the current PS4 with a possible price drop this holiday and the new one at 499.99. It's a win-win for Sony. And then next year drop the slim.

Agreed, however, I think it will be $399 max. Or watch them shock us and be $349, and the current PS4 lowered to $300 or $279/$249.

I think the more casual buyers will be much more cool with this than people that have been strongly invested in consoles for a while. Tech products get refreshed much more often and they'll likely just shrug it off or be happy that there will possibly be a cheaper PS4 alongside the 4k.

And that was the thing. One of them said, "cool, we get better phones, PC's, TV's, etc., all the time", lol. So the conditioning in the tech world is real to the average person now.

Same here. I work at a small shop, only about 4 other gamers but none have heard of it and wouldn't care either way. Of course some people will care but 99% of gamers won't care and will just assume it's the same as when PS3 came out with different versions.

Agreed. If the message is clear, this will not effect a thing. People will be like, "I do not have a 4K TV so I will just get the cheaper one." Just like people do not buy 4K upscaling Blu-Ray players when they have 1080p sets. They buy the cheaper one for their set.

I mentioned it to a buddy at work who is a PS4 gamer. All he said was "Fuck that". He doesn't have a 4K tv so it didn't interest him. Also, he didn't go on a rant about switching to PC gaming and how all his future PS4 games will be downgraded.

Yep, lol.

My step son is pumped for it. I will probably buy his PS4 of him (to put in my man cave) to help him pay for the PS4K

I figured younger people would be into this, since they grow up in the tech era where this is the norm.

Hell, I grew up since the first home consoles, and I am pumped for this. Scored a nice Sony 4K set on the cheap the other day by dumb luck, which pushed me even more over the edge. I was going to upgrade my launch PS4 with one of the new revisions soon anyhow, so I guess I will wait to see Sony's official announcement.

 

[dano1]

So long as the same games can be played on it the casual audience isn't going to give a fuck. They'll have the current PS4 with a possible price drop this holiday and the new one at 499.99. It's a win-win for Sony. And then next year drop the slim.

Finally someone gets it!

 

[blastprocessor]

The leak mentions the CPU may be getting an upgrade that will effect the price.

$499 for 2xGPU and faster CPU would be a rip off IMHO. I'd want faster CPU/GPU for $399.

 

[AuthenticM]

Completely out of control? Dude, you know the vast, vast, VAST majority of gamers don't visit GAF, right? We account for like 0.00001% of the gaming community worldwide. I don't see people throwing PS4s in trash cans and burning controllers en masse. A few pages back, people were actually proclaiming the death of consoles over this. The death of consoles! Stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Here's what's going to happen: PS4 will sell great all year, because the majority of people don't know/wouldn't care if they did, and at some point PS4k'll be announced. The PS4 will see a steep price cut. It will continue to sell great, because the vast majority of the gaming community, as all consumers do, care far more about affordable prices than sweet-ass graffix. If they didn't, we'd all be playing on $3,000 gaming rigs. When PS4k hits, as long as the price is under 400 it, too, will sell like mad, because the rest of the community DOES care about sweet-ass graffix, and I'm betting almost every swingin' dick here who says "I'm done with consoles" will be there day one. How many times to consoles have to die before you realize it Will. Not. Happen?

Really. This thread is the very definition of "hyperbole".

Really all that needs to be said.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Sony should price the PS4K at $499/$550 to avoid people crying that they paid $399 and now have an inferior machine. Want a better spec machine pay a little extra, games on PS4 will still running the way they would with or without the PS4K

 

[blastprocessor]

Really. This thread is the very definition of "hyperbole".

Good post.

One wonders if PS4 sales will be affected at all given current rumours.

Most likely not.

 

[dano1]

Sony should price the PS4K at $499/$550 to avoid people crying that they paid $399 and now have an inferior machine. Want a better spec machine pay a little extra, games on PS4 will still running the way they would with or without the PS4K

I don't like your thinking. $399 please.

 

[blastprocessor]

Sony should price the PS4K at $499/$550

I want 3xGPU for that price. I'll pick up a cheap UHD player and keep the PS4 if Sony take the piss.

 

[amstradcpc]

Sony should price the PS4K at $499/$550 to avoid people crying that they paid $399 and now have an inferior machine. Want a better spec machine pay a little extra, games on PS4 will still running the way they would with or without the PS4K

Yeah,they should.And add those 8 zen cores!.

 

[The Last One]

Completely out of control? Dude, you know the vast, vast, VAST majority of gamers don't visit GAF, right? We account for like 0.00001% of the gaming community worldwide. I don't see people throwing PS4s in trash cans and burning controllers en masse. A few pages back, people were actually proclaiming the death of consoles over this. The death of consoles! Stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Here's what's going to happen: PS4 will sell great all year, because the majority of people don't know/wouldn't care if they did, and at some point PS4k'll be announced. The PS4 will see a steep price cut. It will continue to sell great, because the vast majority of the gaming community, as all consumers do, care far more about affordable prices than sweet-ass graffix. If they didn't, we'd all be playing on $3,000 gaming rigs. When PS4k hits, as long as the price is under 400 it, too, will sell like mad, because the rest of the community DOES care about sweet-ass graffix, and I'm betting almost every swingin' dick here who says "I'm done with consoles" will be there day one. How many times to consoles have to die before you realize it Will. Not. Happen?

Really. This thread is the very definition of "hyperbole".

Mister Positive

I agree though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony should price the PS4K at $499/$550 to avoid people crying that they paid $399 and now have an inferior machine. Want a better spec machine pay a little extra, games on PS4 will still running the way they would with or without the PS4K

They paid $399 almost 3 years ago, and if rumors are true, over 3 years ago by the time this hits.

Us early adopters have no room to complain, lol.

I am going with $399, and even leaning towards the current PS4 price by the time this launches. They get better deals with contracts, and showing the numbers to AMD with the current PS4 success, could have netted them an even better deal. Especially far better than bloated graphics card pricing to the general public some people keep throwing out as fact of what we would have to pay, lol.

Completely out of control? Dude, you know the vast, vast, VAST majority of gamers don't visit GAF, right? We account for like 0.00001% of the gaming community worldwide. I don't see people throwing PS4s in trash cans and burning controllers en masse. A few pages back, people were actually proclaiming the death of consoles over this. The death of consoles! Stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Here's what's going to happen: PS4 will sell great all year, because the majority of people don't know/wouldn't care if they did, and at some point PS4k'll be announced. The PS4 will see a steep price cut. It will continue to sell great, because the vast majority of the gaming community, as all consumers do, care far more about affordable prices than sweet-ass graffix. If they didn't, we'd all be playing on $3,000 gaming rigs. When PS4k hits, as long as the price is under 400 it, too, will sell like mad, because the rest of the community DOES care about sweet-ass graffix, and I'm betting almost every swingin' dick here who says "I'm done with consoles" will be there day one. How many times to consoles have to die before you realize it Will. Not. Happen?

Really. This thread is the very definition of "hyperbole".

Blunt truth.

 

[Raide]

Good post.

One wonders if PS4 sales will be affected at all given current rumours.

Most likely not.

As soon as new hardware is rumoured and then announced, it can only impact PS4 sales negatively, especially if it drops this year or early next year. People who are not early adopters might have been waiting for a PS4 but why bother with a new console on the horizon? More-so if the PS4 games will work on the new system.

 

[borghe]

PSVR will be compatible with PS4K, based on the rumors we have, so far. Being more powerful, it would naturally be more capable of delivering a fuller fidelity VR experience, but it seems pretty obvious from the PSVR specs that's it's been designed to make the best of being used with the PS4. If they were planning to have the PS4K in the picture the whole time and as they primary workhorse for PSVR, they probably would have ratcheted up the specs on the VR headset (higher resolution, better FOV, etc.)

I thought FOV was already higher (or at least relatively equal) on PSVR compared to OR and Vive?

And the resolution of Vive and OR are greatly played out over PSVR. They are a 25% increase in resolution. Notable, but not last gen vs. next gen. The biggest issue as I always understood it was the system running the software. Including sub-pixels, pixel density on PS vr from all accounts is virtually (pun intended) perfect.

edit - oops.. refresh rate is higher.. FOV is the same as OR and 10° narrower than Vive.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Completely out of control? Dude, you know the vast, vast, VAST majority of gamers don't visit GAF, right? We account for like 0.00001% of the gaming community worldwide. I don't see people throwing PS4s in trash cans and burning controllers en masse. A few pages back, people were actually proclaiming the death of consoles over this. The death of consoles! Stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Here's what's going to happen: PS4 will sell great all year, because the majority of people don't know/wouldn't care if they did, and at some point PS4k'll be announced. The PS4 will see a steep price cut. It will continue to sell great, because the vast majority of the gaming community, as all consumers do, care far more about affordable prices than sweet-ass graffix. If they didn't, we'd all be playing on $3,000 gaming rigs. When PS4k hits, as long as the price is under 400 it, too, will sell like mad, because the rest of the community DOES care about sweet-ass graffix, and I'm betting almost every swingin' dick here who says "I'm done with consoles" will be there day one. How many times to consoles have to die before you realize it Will. Not. Happen?

Really. This thread is the very definition of "hyperbole".

Good point.

 

[qa_engineer]

I thought FOV was already higher (or at least relatively equal) on PSVR compared to OR and Vive?

And the resolution of Vive and OR are greatly played out over PSVR. They are a 25% increase in resolution. Notable, but not last gen vs. next gen. The biggest issue as I always understood it was the system running the software. Including sub-pixels, pixel density on PS vr from all accounts is virtually (pun intended) perfect.

edit - oops.. refresh rate is higher.. FOV is the same as OR and 10° lower than Vive.

100 degree FOV on PSVR vs 110 on Oculus and Vive.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The difference between the PS4k and the PS4 is 2.5 times the difference between the PS4 and the XBO. If PS4 1080p 30 games run 900p 30 with drops in the XBO. Imagine how a 1080p 30 PS4k game will run on the PS4.

The key is what the developers choose as a target. If they target og PS4, PS4k games will look a little prettier with enhanced resolution and/or frame rate. No problem with that. But if they target PS4k, og PS4 version is going to run like shit.

The PS4 version will run like shit anyway because devs know they can get away with it .
Just look at the sales of games like Fallout 4 , Witcher 3 , SW BF etc etc and last gen TLOU and GTA 5 .
Devs will do what they also do and make what ever sacrifice they feel the best for there game.
PS4k being there or not being there not going to change that .
The difference now is consoles people have a option not to get screw over when start pushing hardware to hard .

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I have a question that may sound stupid but given how the upgrade is described by OsirisBlack, I think it fair.

Is the the dev kit that is said to be out in the wild already made up of a new APU or two separate chips? I ask because of the maybe/maybe not on the CPU front.

Also, what happens if the devs have the CPU in the dev kit now, but Sony don't upgrade in the end?

 

[On Demand]

You don't have a point, you think it is a great idea so are belittling people who think it is a monumentally stupid decision with silly comments.

This has been happening across every thread about this.

Notice how post speaking positively about this move don't get ridiculed like the post speaking negatively. Not really a fair discussion.

 

[Raide]

The PS4 version will run like shit anyway because devs know they can get away with it .
Just look at the sales of games like Fallout 4 , Witcher 3 , SW BF etc etc and last gen TLOU and GTA 5 .
Devs will do what they also do and make what ever sacrifice they feel the best for there game.
PS4k being there or not being there not going to change that .
The difference now is consoles people have a option not to get screw over when start pushing hardware to hard .

For games that are 900/1080p with random drops, at least it will be utterly stable. Would be nice to see developer add some locks in there also. Lack of drops/screen tearing is a fairly good reason to upgrade if you don't mind dropping the cash for it.

I am also hoping they have some better HDD solutions in there to speed up loading etc.

 

[Papacheeks]

This has been happening across every thread about this.

Notice how post speaking positively about this move don't get ridiculed like the post speaking negatively. Not really a fair discussion.

Yup. And people like GlamFM don't help the situation in acting like they are moderators in the discussion.

 

[Raide]

Going forward, if the PS4K is a real thing, I am hoping the graphics options will be akin to going from Higher to Ultra on a PC. The hardest thing is it being a console based thing where the majority of games really don't have options to cover this kind of thing. Hopefully it is something going forward.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

As soon as new hardware is rumoured and then announced, it can only impact PS4 sales negatively, especially if it drops this year or early next year. People who are not early adopters might have been waiting for a PS4 but why bother with a new console on the horizon? More-so if the PS4 games will work on the new system.

It won't impact hardware if it price out of there price range .
Comes xmas when PS4 cost $200 and PS4K cost $400 will be good for Sony.
Because there is not a huge over lap for consumer at that price range .

 

[joecanada]

Sony really should offer some kind of trade in program, specifically for those who purchased a PS4 within the year prior to whenever PS4K is released. PS3's long lifespan created high expectations for PS4 owners. Throw them a bone this time and next gen everyone goes in with their eyes open.

or they could just announce it a year before it is released and then you have a year to do whatever you want with your ps4. If people know about ps4K and choose to buy a ps4 this December that's up to them. does apple do trade ins on their models if you move to S versions or Plus versions? I don't know as I've never bought anything from them.

judging by the overreactions in this thread I would say maybe Sony's marketing on this should downplay the upgrades and then let the enthusiasts find out through some simple research how much better the system performs. They will obviously still say we are committed to bringing the best games to all systems, which they have done consistently anyway. PS2 had amazing support.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yup. And people like GlamFM don't help the situation in acting like they are moderators in the discussion.

Why don't you PM him or a mod, instead of thread whining about it?

Starting to sound like a bunch of children now.

 

[Raide]

It won't impact hardware if it price out of there price range .
Comes xmas when PS4 cost $200 and PS4K cost $400 will be good for Sony.
Because there is not a huge over lap for consumer at that price range .

They would be crazy not to drop it but at the same time, does that show consumers that they are letting go of the older system? There would have to be a good enough gap between the two to justify people jumping ship. People expect there to be a value to upgrading earlier than normal. Is the PS4K really that much of a jump for many? I guess this depends on how Sony market it.

 

[Papacheeks]

The only thing out of this "controlled" leak is the God of war reference. That has me worried about what some of us fear down the road, in the grand scheme of things.

Imagine a high profile game closer to 2018 near PS4's end of shelf life, being exclusive solely on PS4K. Or even worse the PS4 versions is outsourced. Granted if the got Blue Point to do it it might end up alright.

But in the end it could still just be a port. This is my only concern going forward. And also when PS5 starts getting teased in 2018 for a 2019 launch, how many early adopters are going to go nutts like they did on PS4 and Xbox one?

 

[Elandyll]

This has been happening across every thread about this.

Notice how post speaking positively about this move don't get ridiculed like the post speaking negatively. Not really a fair discussion.

It's mostly a matter of formatting.

It's one thing to say : "I am concerned that with a higher spec version available the developpers will then target the higher end as baseline, resulting in possible sub par ports on PS4", and then going on to discuss that apprehension with what is currently "known" about the rumor and using common sense.

OR

You can say "What tbe F* Sony you Suck! I bought my PS4 last week and now you release tbe PS5 next week! You M-F *#^^!' !&&#!^, I am burning my PS4 as I type, and will now go play Ouya forever."
(Slightly exagerated)
Which is imo the kind of reaction worthy of scorn and ridicule.

 

[truth411]

Yeah, I see your point. I wouldn't be at all surprised if PS5 comes out in 2018 or 2019. That is after all, in line with industry CEO/exec predictions from 2013 when current gen launched. We might have to settle for a bit less of a leap than a PS5 in 2020, but there should still be a much more significant difference than going from PS4 to a PS4K in early 2017 with only 2x or 2.5x the graphics performance.

An APU using Zen CPU and Navi GPU architectures with HBM2 (probably not the absolute fastest memory by then, as AMD noted "Nextgen memory" for Navi on PC side)
With 1.0 ~ 1.2 TB/sec HBM2 for PS5 will be very, very good, and thankfully no longer cutting edge in 2018/2019, thus most likely cheaper (SK Hynix has a roadmap out to 2023 and HBM3 could be as soon as 2018/2019) .

The 10nm node seems kinda dicey for 2018 but probably more doable in 2019.

All this assuming there's no PS4K.

Or the PS4K is real and enables this gen to last till 2020 or 2021 at the latest. Giving us a PS5 with 7nm chips and HBM3 modules. That's what I'm hoping for and very likely.

Edit: from a technological standpoint, it makes sense to release a PS5 holiday 2020-2021.

 

[joecanada]

Yup. And people like GlamFM don't help the situation in acting like they are moderators in the discussion.

actually most of his posts have been answering questions politely. But feel free to rebut if you think you have some actual counterpoints,

maybe the concerns would be more supported if there was any that looked like they had actual evidence to back them up.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Don't be such a drama queen and don't confuse GAF with the real world.

In the real world no one cares.

Come on, this is a lame thing to stand behind. This isn't widely known yet. Sony hasn't officially said anything let alone officially announced what this product is, what it will be and how things are moving forward. To say in the real world no one cares is premature. We don't know how the masses are going to react to it.

The outrage about Microsoft's DRM could have just been attributed to a vocal minority and that in the real world nobody would care too, but that turned out to be a huge thing once things were officially said by Microsoft. The outrage didn't happen during the rumors outside of the vocal minority.

Also let's not assume that the masses being ambivalent to something means that it's an okay or good thing to do. The masses being ambivalent to DLC, Season Passes and F2P models is how we got to where we are today with people being ambivalent. Short term and small steps may look like not a big deal; it's about the long term that is concerning to how this moves forward.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

People never learn.

As soon as more powerful hardware is out devs start to target that hardware and push bells and whistles hard, and put frame rate lowest on their priority list.

PS4 games will end up being 900/30 with underwhelming visuals, and PS4K games 1080/30 with better graphics. Sure, at first we'll get games that look no different but with better AA and frame rate on PS4K, but eventually PS4 versions of games will start to take a nose dive because there won't be any way to reproduce what the PS4K is doing without (as the OP states) severely sacrificing performance and visuals.

Edit: in lay man's terms, it will go something like this:

PS4: good
PS4K: great
to
PS4: acceptable
PS4K: good

 

[PeterLegend]

Wouldnt PS4K owners have a competitive advantage against regular PS4 owners when playing multiplayer at higher resolutions and higher frame rates?

 

[Raide]

Wouldnt PS4K owners have a competitive advantage against regular PS4 owners when playing multiplayer at higher resolutions and higher frame rates?

Potentially IF they have one at 30fps and the other at 60fps or if the quality jump was significant enough to provide players with a visual fidelity advantage.

The good thing (?) is that the PS4K won't be outputting all of its games at 4k rex. Upscaled yes but not native. If that translates into an advantage over the 900p/1080p PS4 gamers, we will have to see.

 

[GlamFM]

Yup. And people like GlamFM don't help the situation in acting like they are moderators in the discussion.

Way to call me out. Where exactly do I act like a moderator?

 

[truth411]

Wouldnt PS4K owners have a competitive advantage against regular PS4 owners when playing multiplayer at higher resolutions and higher frame rates?

If the specs are real as I see it, it would be like Uncharted 4 MP 900p/60 for PS4 vs 1080p/60fps with better affects for PS4K.

 

[GreySquirrel]

It's mostly a matter of formatting.

It's one thing to say : "I am concerned that with a higher spec version available the developpers will then target the higher end as baseline, resulting in possible sub par ports on PS4", and then going on to discuss that apprehension with what is currently "known" about the rumor and using common sense.

OR

You can say "What tbe F* Sony you Suck! I bought my PS4 last week and now you release tbe PS5 next week! You M-F *#^^!' !&&#!^, I am burning my PS4 as I type, and will now go play Ouya forever."
(Slightly exagerated)
Which is imo the kind of reaction worthy of scorn and ridicule.

I've actually seen extremes both ends but it only seems to be the negative views that get piled on with patronising comments. Not saying you are doing that btw

 

[poodpick]

People never learn.

As soon as more powerful hardware is out devs start to target that hardware and push bells and whistles hard, and put frame rate lowest on their priority list.

PS4 games will end up being 900/30 with underwhelming visuals, and PS4K games 1080/30 with better graphics. Sure, at first we'll get games that look no different but with better AA and frame rate on PS4K, but eventually PS4 versions of games will start to take a nose dive because there won't be any way to reproduce what the PS4K is doing without (as the OP states) severely sacrificing performance and visuals.

Edit: in lay man's terms, it will go something like this:

PS4: good
PS4K: great
to
PS4: acceptable
PS4K: good

Games have run like shit at the end of every gen as devs add more effects. What's different now?

 

[rauelius]

I think Sony is gonna either double up on the GPU (add another Radeon 7850-Class GPU to work in Crossfire with the Radeon 7850-Class GPU in the APU) or a Polaris class Chip with R9-290/GTX970 level performance.

 

[jeffram]

Wouldnt PS4K owners have a competitive advantage against regular PS4 owners when playing multiplayer at higher resolutions and higher frame rates?

The Latency on your TV would probably have a bigger effect.

 

[Moneal]

People never learn.

As soon as more powerful hardware is out devs start to target that hardware and push bells and whistles hard, and put frame rate lowest on their priority list.

PS4 games will end up being 900/30 with underwhelming visuals, and PS4K games 1080/30 with better graphics. Sure, at first we'll get games that look no different but with better AA and frame rate on PS4K, but eventually PS4 versions of games will start to take a nose dive because there won't be any way to reproduce what the PS4K is doing without (as the OP states) severely sacrificing performance and visuals.

Edit: in lay man's terms, it will go something like this:

PS4: good
PS4K: great


to
PS4: acceptable
PS4K: good

This was going to happen at some point, and it has nothing to do with PS4K. It has to do with PC hardware.

 

[spatenfloot]

Yea the God of War 4 to me reeks of April fools.

They better show off both versions at E3 if it is infact true. ANd base PS4 versions better look fucking tits.

He just assumed it was God of War 4. Actually, it is the port of Gears of War 4.

 

[Papacheeks]

Way to call me out. Where exactly do I act like a moderator?

Your dismissing other peoples discussion as if what your saying has more validity than theirs.

And at every turn you keep chugging the same tune " PS4 will be the base, blah blah blha", while dismissing peoples concerns. Which is making it a one way discussion, "that your for it, and there's no evidence it not succeeding and having a overly positive impact on the industry".

 

[DeepEnigma]

If the specs are real as I see it, it would be like Uncharted 4 MP 900p/60 for PS4 vs 1080p/60fps with better affects for PS4K.

This...

The Latency on your TV would probably have a bigger effect.

And much more of this, lol.

 

[magnetic]

I just want to play as many titles at 60fps as possible. I've been playing a lot of Platinum and Devil May Cry games on my old 360 recently and going back to 30fps and under is such a bummer.

I am REALLY hoping for some sort of choice between 4K and higher framerate, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[Moneal]

Your dismissing other peoples discussion as if what your saying has more validity than theirs.

And at every turn you keep chugging the same tune " PS4 will be the base, blah blah blha", while dismissing peoples concerns. Which is making it a one way discussion, "that your for it, and there's no evidence it not succeeding and having a overly positive impact on the industry".

Isn't Xbox1 the base now? that wont change.

 

[GlamFM]

This has been happening across every thread about this.

Notice how post speaking positively about this move don't get ridiculed like the post speaking negatively. Not really a fair discussion.

If you read through our conversation you would see that he actually did miss the point I was making.

Your dismissing other peoples discussion as if what your saying has more validity than theirs.

And at every turn you keep chugging the same tune " PS4 will be the base, blah blah blha", while dismissing peoples concerns. Which is making it a one way discussion, "that your for it, and there's no evidence it not succeeding and having a overly positive impact on the industry".

I don´t have dismissing powers here. I have opinions, I share them.

I think this is the very purpose of forums like this one.

Until proven right or wrong we are all speculating.

It´s not like the negative crew is bringing up new stuff at every turn.